Overseas Service people can't vote???

[arizonaranchman]

I've been hearing on Fox News this morning that a number of states "just can't get the ballots" over to our military service members in time for the election.

This ENRAGES me to say the least. SCREW the states that are trying to pull this. I say FLY the damned ballots on a supersonic jet to them if necessary and MAKE IT HAPPEN no matter what it takes or costs.

This is utterly disgusting. I think it's intentional myself. The Dems know that most military folks lean towards the conservative side. They don't want any more conservatives voting that they can avoid even if it means pulling such despicable stunts as this. The commie Dems know there's gonna be a slaughter at the polls and they're going to be swept out of office. They're doing every little thing they can to lessen the number of conservative voters.

Believe me they'd fly in ballots to illegal alien camps all over the nation if they could to be sure they could vote for them. Apparently no such concern for our military serving overseas...

PS/Note To Administrators: Sorry i didn't realize I was in the AR portion of GD. Move this thread to the correct place if you would...

[Palmguy]

Relevant news link: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/26/key-toss-races-held-states-military-absentee-ballots-face-delays/

[Belmont31R]

If mil people swung mostly for democrats those ballots would have been there months ago....

[gsxr-fan]

It been my experience (US Army) that each company would assign a junior officer as the “unit voting officer”. His/her job would be to go around and ask the troops if they (depending on the state primary) wanted an absentee ballot. In truth, most young troops could careless about voting and depending on the training or other unit activities, this additional duty was low on the officer's to-do-list.

Even if a soldier got an absentee ballot in time to cast their vote, if it was filled out incorrectly, late getting back to the state or some other SNAFU, it was still up to the state to count the ballot. And there have been cases where state voting officials have let politics influence what votes to count or disregard.

**********

In this digital age where there's an app for just about anything, you would think there should be an app for secure, verifiable absentee ballots. But that's just me....

[pcardinal42]

Currently deployed right now, we had one briefing about absentee voting from the wing level when we first got here a month ago and I recieved an email so I could get an absentee ballot. I am still waiting for it to come in the mail, but I have asked a lot of the people in my squadron if they planned on voting and half of the people are ignorant to the whole process and the other half only care about the presidentail election. I then try and explain to them that voting on the little people will most likely effect their lives more than the big guys up on the hill but you can only tell someone that doesn't really care so much.

Other than that I haven't heard anything about not being able to recieve or particibate in the election.

If you pick a supersonic plane to deliver the votes don't pick the B1 because they'll never get there.

[Magic_Salad0892]

That's ****ing ridiculous. First time I've ever been glad I didn't join.

If anybody deserves to vote at all it's them. I think it's more important that they get to vote because they're over there FIGHTING for the right to vote. The People's Repiblik of D.C. is just ****ing us now.

[Iraqgunz]

Let's make sure we are posting in the right place.

[Robb Jensen]

The law should be changed so that the military/absentee votes are counted first. Many states don't even bother counting them unless it's a pretty close race. This is wrong in so many ways.

[PRGGodfather]

More importantly, we are beginning to realize that more and more voters vote by absentee ballot -- as high as 70% in some areas. It's really disheartening to hear that absentee ballots often don't even get counted.

And yes, certain states pull this stunt for every election. Bombard those states with calls to the elected representatives and I'll bet they pay attention.

Bastards.

[GermanSynergy]

If mil people swung mostly for democrats those ballots would have been there months ago....

...and each ballot would count for 55 votes......

[Safetyhit]

Many states don't even bother counting them unless it's a pretty close race. This is wrong in so many ways.



Man is that an understatement. Have to wonder how such a voting process ever got so misguided and broken.

Anyway, if it is the Dems deliberately up to something this particular election as suspected, even for them it is beyond deplorable. Should any type of evidence be found to confirm some sort of actual conspiracy to suppress the military's vote, people need to go to jail.

[VooDoo6Actual]

FUBAR

[Complication]

The law should be changed so that the military/absentee votes are counted first. Many states don't even bother counting them unless it's a pretty close race. This is wrong in so many ways.

I was under the impression that absentee ballots (in any election) did not legally have to be counted if**:
1) It was a winner-take all scenario (i.e. simple majority was all that mattered and not %)
AND
2) The winner's margin was GREATER than the number of absentee ballots.
**I'm sure there are jurisdictions out there which vary somewhat.

Under those conditions I would advocate that absentee ballots be thrown in the trash (different matter than not getting ballots out in the first place). They literally would not change anything but the time and money spent on tallying votes (and aren't we all about cutting government waste here?). It'd be like if you walked into a PTA meeting where they had just finished voting 19-2 for XYZ measure. Would it be nice if they asked you how you wanted to vote? Yes. Would it be a complete waste of time? Yes.

That said, is this deplorable if true? Oh hell yes. Am I convinced it's some secret-handshake democrat conspiracy? I seriously doubt they're that competent and am willing to be the real story is at least somewhat more complex.

[Safetyhit]

That said, is this deplorable if true? Oh hell yes. Am I convinced it's some secret-handshake democrat conspiracy? I seriously doubt they're that competent and am willing to be the real story is at least somewhat more complex.


I usually refrain from the word "conspiracy", however I used it because even if there are just a few people in power hindering the effort by design then it would indeed be a conspiracy.

And with the state of desperation we are seeing on the Dem side right now as their ship sinks, I just don't put it past them. But maybe it is just flat out, unintended incompetence.

[Complication]

I usually refrain from the word "conspiracy", however I used it because even if there are just a few people in power hindering the effort by design then it would indeed be a conspiracy.

And with the state of desperation we are seeing on the Dem side right now as their ship sinks, I just don't put it past them. But maybe it is just flat out, unintended incompetence.

I guess I'm just left of center so I spent the GWB years listening to lefties whine about the evil and malicious cigar-smoke-filled back room, death-star, Darth Vader-type, evil grand plans that the republicans were cooking up. And they sounded just as asinine to me. Perhaps I just follow "Hanlon's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor)" to a fault:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Or the more eloquent and understated British version: "Many journalists have fallen for the conspiracy theory of government. I do assure you that they would produce more accurate work if they adhered to the cock-up theory."

This isn't to say that stuff as important as this shouldn't be investigated AS IF there were malicious intent--that's the most effective method of dissuading someone with ill intentions--but my experience leads me to believe that people are just too ****ing stupid to pull something like this off as frequently as it is alleged.

[Belmont31R]

I was under the impression that absentee ballots (in any election) did not legally have to be counted if**:
1) It was a winner-take all scenario (i.e. simple majority was all that mattered and not %)
AND
2) The winner's margin was GREATER than the number of absentee ballots.
**I'm sure there are jurisdictions out there which vary somewhat.

Under those conditions I would advocate that absentee ballots be thrown in the trash (different matter than not getting ballots out in the first place). They literally would not change anything but the time and money spent on tallying votes (and aren't we all about cutting government waste here?). It'd be like if you walked into a PTA meeting where they had just finished voting 19-2 for XYZ measure. Would it be nice if they asked you how you wanted to vote? Yes. Would it be a complete waste of time? Yes.

That said, is this deplorable if true? Oh hell yes. Am I convinced it's some secret-handshake democrat conspiracy? I seriously doubt they're that competent and am willing to be the real story is at least somewhat more complex.




Just look at the Al Franken race. They just kept recounting, and finding votes in people's trunks (literally) until their man (Franken) won. Then they declared the election valid, and instituted Franken as a US Senator. Guess what? If we'd had that 41st Senator a lot of the BS thats passed in the last ~2 years would have at least been much harder to do.


I should bring up ACORN here to. What is it? 14 states their members have been charged/investigated for election fraud? ACORN is a democrat pet organization that works to ensure democrats get elected....especially in low income and minority areas. And they are just ONE group. There are lots of people out there willing to subvert a fair election process to ensure their guy/gal wins.


Im also certain the politicians will turn a blind eye to it when benefits them. Congress can spend time investigating baseball players but spend almost no time ensuring we have absolutely fair and just elections in this country.

[Belmont31R]

I guess I'm just left of center so I spent the GWB years listening to lefties whine about the evil and malicious cigar-smoke-filled back room, death-star, Darth Vader-type, evil grand plans that the republicans were cooking up. And they sounded just as asinine to me. Perhaps I just follow "Hanlon's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor)" to a fault:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Or the more eloquent and understated British version: "Many journalists have fallen for the conspiracy theory of government. I do assure you that they would produce more accurate work if they adhered to the cock-up theory."

This isn't to say that stuff as important as this shouldn't be investigated AS IF there were malicious intent--that's the most effective method of dissuading someone with ill intentions--but my experience leads me to believe that people are just too ****ing stupid to pull something like this off as frequently as it is alleged.


It doesn't matter how stupid people are. Like I said look at the Al Franken race, and even the Black Panthers standing outside with the billy clubs in Philly. Dems are in charge now, and Franken comes from a dem controlled state. They are perfectly willing to turn a blind eye to this type of stuff, and brush it under the carpet when it benefits them. Instead of investigating these types of election issues Congress was doing important things like investigating steroids in baseball, and trying to smear Toyota. Franken gave the people in power now the magical 60th vote. You think they are going to jump right on that?

[Complication]

I'm not trying to defend or absolve anyone here. I simply pointed out that just because absentee ballots may not be counted in a particular race, it doesn't always have something to do with someone's secret agenda or win-at-all-costs attitude. Sometimes it's simply a mathematical fact that absentee ballots for a given election will have no effect on the outcome.

You're right to point out the Franken race (but I think you lost sight of my point at least). That race was close enough that absentee ballots did effect the outcome of the race (a process which was arguably abused). Had one candidate won by, say, 100,000 votes and had there only been, say, 30,000 absentee ballots, then there would be no need to count them--that's simply what I was saying.

As I said, that's a different matter altogether than whether or not ballots were distributed to those unable to vote in person (a matter I wasn't commenting on at all).

As a side note: I personally feel its naive and foolish to think that one politician is any more moral or virtuous simply because they share your opinions and philosophies more than another. I would personally find these types of discussions more fulfilling if people were a bit more conscious of the fact that, when it comes to politics, the GD forum can be bit of an echo chamber where everybody pretty much agrees with everybody else and where people can get carried away and actually start to believe a lot of the crazy stuff they write or read. I just felt like tapping the brakes a little bit on this discussion, that's all.

[Robb Jensen]

I was under the impression that absentee ballots (in any election) did not legally have to be counted if**:
1) It was a winner-take all scenario (i.e. simple majority was all that mattered and not %)
AND
2) The winner's margin was GREATER than the number of absentee ballots.
**I'm sure there are jurisdictions out there which vary somewhat.

Under those conditions I would advocate that absentee ballots be thrown in the trash (different matter than not getting ballots out in the first place). They literally would not change anything but the time and money spent on tallying votes (and aren't we all about cutting government waste here?). It'd be like if you walked into a PTA meeting where they had just finished voting 19-2 for XYZ measure. Would it be nice if they asked you how you wanted to vote? Yes. Would it be a complete waste of time? Yes.

That said, is this deplorable if true? Oh hell yes. Am I convinced it's some secret-handshake democrat conspiracy? I seriously doubt they're that competent and am willing to be the real story is at least somewhat more complex.

Hence like I stated. Absentee voting should be pre-election and counted first. It would eliminate any bullshit of them never being counted. If the election is Tuesday, have the absentee votes counted the Friday before the election Tuesday.....quite simple. Waste of time? Hardly.

[Complication]

I'm not sure I understand what "bullshit" you're referring to?
Would the following scenario be "bullshit"?
Candidate 1: 100,000 election-day votes
Candidate 2: 40,000 election-day votes
Absentee ballots: 20,000
Thus, absentee ballots NOT counted.

It seems to me one would be hard pressed to articulate a reason why those absentee ballots should be counted. On one extreme they change the results to 100,000:60,000--and the result holds. On the other extreme, the results are not 120,000:40,000--and still the result is the same.

Initially, I was simply trying to divorce the issues of 1) counting or not counting absentee ballots based on whether or not they have the potential to change the outcome of voting-day ballots and 2) f'ing around with recounts and the distribution of ballots to people who need them.

I think if you can eliminate #2, counting absentee ballots when their number is less than the margin of victory is, objectively speaking, a waste of time and resources (i.e. the example above). Eliminating shenanigans entirely is impossible, sadly. Perhaps, as you suggest, counting absentee ballots first would reduce or complicate someone pulling some bullshit (although it could easily be used as propaganda as well and certainly opens another avenue for shenanigans even as it closes one).

I think the question of WHEN to count absentee ballots is a minuscule one, by comparison, though. In my opinion, the larger issues here are:
As the OP posted, getting ballots to those who need them.
And, for your election-day pleasures--Unauditable electronic voting machines with no paper trail (google Diebold and electronic voting machines and the jaw-dropping shitfest they are)

[500grains]

Apparently we need a purge throughout state and federal government. Perhaps if we reduced everything that is not .mil or .leo to 1/4 of its current size we would be headed in the right direction.