View Full Version : Eliminating "wiggle"
Easiest way to eliminate the movement or "wiggle" between your upper and high-self lower receiver. I used an O-ring of .75" in dia., .1875" thick. Works great, feels solid. So far o-ring has lived up to repeat compressions with no damage. NOTE: I would like to retract this statement, as others posting to this thread have stated this suggestion is not a good idea.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l175/schiffj1/DSC_0002-2.jpg
AR15barrels
07-02-07, 16:32
Easiest way to eliminate the movement or "wiggle" between your upper and high-self lower receiver. I used an O-ring of .75" in dia., .1875" thick. Works great, feels solid. So far o-ring has lived up to repeat compressions with no damage.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l175/schiffj1/DSC_0002-2.jpg
You won't feel the same way when some or all of that o-ring ends up in your fire control group...
I speak from experience as I have found a piece of rubber in a fire control group during a 3 gun match.
The guy's response was "well, I put that in there to take out the slack between the receivers, but it was pinched in place so there's no way it could just slide out"
When it slides under the trigger, your trigger STOPS working.
I hope your picture shows a brand new lower, because it sure has not been shot much if at all from looking at the buffer face.
nationwide
07-02-07, 16:49
Here's a hint.
If the wobble was bad, it wouldn't be there! ;)
Robb Jensen
07-02-07, 17:55
If you don't like the wiggle (I don't either) use an Accuwedge, it doesn't make the rifle more accurate it just makes the wiggle stop. JP makes a two piece rear takedown screw that does the same thing but requires tools to take your AR apart, which is why I don't use one.
Ill get an accu-wedge......Thanks for the advise.
And, yes my LMT is new, haven't fired this one yet.
Go to Lowe's, HD or any good hardware store and buy some #7 o-rings.
Remove your upper from the lower and slide this o-ring over the front pivot of the upper.
Reattach upper and lower and all slack/wiggle should be gone.
Best of all if/when the o-ring fails it'll be on the outside where it can't mess with your tigger group.
the accu-wedge has no place on a serious fighting rifle that you want to depend on.
the accu-wedge has no place on a serious fighting rifle that you want to depend on.
Why would that be?
Not to be confused with an armchair commando but I've fired a few rounds with one in my old Colt (and a few more) without any problems. In fact with the takedown pin locking it in place, it's hard for me to imagine what might happen. Just curious.
Any time you place something inside your reciever that is not permanently attached, you take your chances.
I've seen one work loose and prevent a bolt from being able to be pulled back.
get over the little wriggle and concentrate on shooting and you will forget about the wriggle.
AR15barrels
07-03-07, 12:38
Go to Lowe's, HD or any good hardware store and buy some #7 o-rings.
Remove your upper from the lower and slide this o-ring over the front pivot of the upper.
Reattach upper and lower and all slack/wiggle should be gone.
Best of all when the o-ring fails it'll be on the outside where it can't mess with your tigger group.
Actually, half of the o-ring ends up in your trigger and the other half falls off the outside.
I have actually SEEN this happen as well.
The carrier/bolt must have grabbed the piece of o-ring and taken it back to the FCG.
Any time you place something inside your reciever that is not permanently attached, you take your chances.
+1
AR15barrels
07-03-07, 12:43
Why would that be?
Not to be confused with an armchair commando but I've fired a few rounds with one in my old Colt (and a few more) without any problems. In fact with the takedown pin locking it in place, it's hard for me to imagine what might happen. Just curious.
They break up with use.
When a piece breaks off, it ends up in the FCG.
Also, they cause wear on the receiver and upper where the pin slides through.
After years and years of using one, you will find that the receiver has even MORE rattle when you remove it.
It's sorta like Armor-All.
Once you start, you can't stop or you end up worse off than when you started.
I had an accuwedge end up in my FCG at a EAG class in may:eek: . It did not bind up the hammer/trigger at the time(opened up the carbine to get out a blown primer that was stuck in the barrel extension) but surely would have given some time. I would like to think that I did not close the receiver with it loose but it is the most likely way it happened. After that I removed all of the accuwedges from my carbines and have learned to live with the little bit of wiggle.
Actually, half of the o-ring ends up in your trigger and the other half falls off the outside.
I have actually SEEN this happen as well.
The carrier/bolt must have grabbed the piece of o-ring and taken it back to the FCG.
+1
Not really sure how this can happen as the o-ring is outside of the weapon from the beginning. When the upper and lower are closed there isn't room for the o-ring to go inside of the upper.
I would have never thunk it.
I only have a Colt with a Diamaco upper left that uses one, guess I'll remove it and see how bad the "wiggle" is. My other 2 are fine without one but seems like that Diamaco upper was on the small end of spec and the Colt lower was on the large end.
AR15barrels
07-03-07, 16:20
Not really sure how this can happen as the o-ring is outside of the weapon from the beginning. When the upper and lower are closed there isn't room for the o-ring to go inside of the upper.
I don't know how it happened either.
All I know is that after I removed the piece of o-ring from under the trigger and showed it to the owner, he said "that's where the rest of that o-ring went..."
Turns out that the front part fell off earlier. :rolleyes:
militarymoron
07-05-07, 15:18
all my uppers/lowers have some 'wiggle' to them - some are tighter than others. however, i only notice the play when i'm not shooting the rifle. i cannot recall ever noticing it when i'm actually shooting, since i'm always putting tension on the upper (either by supporting it or pulling back on a vertical grip), so it's never been an issue to worry about when it counts. YMMV.
I would like to thank everyone for their input!
dialM4murder
07-05-07, 18:51
yeah, great thread.
Here's a hint.
If the wobble was bad, it wouldn't be there! ;)
That's funny. That's exactly what my circle of AR15 buddies told me when I inquired about the "play" between the upper & lower. And it's true -- shoot it enough and you won't even notice it;) . Good info here!
Robb Jensen
07-05-07, 21:02
That's funny. That's exactly what my circle of AR15 buddies told me when I inquired about the "play" between the upper & lower. And it's true -- shoot it enough and you won't even notice it;) . Good info here!
The more I shoot the more I notice (like time slowing down, brass leaving the ejection port, the push of the stock into my shoulder, the smell of the powder, the rise and fall of the sights etc). When you do it enough you'll notice it too, it's like your mind is watching your body perform a well rehearsed play all by itself without thought. It's awareness (aka Zen).......................too deep for many.
"The right shot at the right moment does not come because you do
not let go of yourself. You do not wait for fulfillment, but
brace yourself for failure. So long as that is so, you have no
choice but to call forth something yourself that ought to happen
independently of you, and so long as you call it forth your hand
will not open in the right way--like the hand of a child."
--Kyudo Master Kenzo Awa to Eugen Herrigel in Zen in the Art of Archery.
Razorhunter
07-05-07, 23:14
The more I shoot the more I notice (like time slowing down, brass leaving the ejection port, the push of the stock into my shoulder, the smell of the powder, the rise and fall of the sights etc). When you do it enough you'll notice it too, it's like your mind is watching your body perform a well rehearsed play all by itself without thought. It's awareness (aka Zen).......................too deep for many.
[
-Ahh... The joys of shooting... What wonderful instances that one can experience...
militarymoron
07-06-07, 09:29
It's awareness (aka Zen).......................too deep for many.
i'm usually focused on watching the bullet leave the barrel, watching it spin as sunlight glints off the rifling marks, as it arcs towards the target. :D
i'm usually focused on watching the bullet leave the barrel, watching it spin as sunlight glints off the rifling marks, as it arcs towards the target. :D
Well I just like the loud noise :D
AR15barrels
07-06-07, 12:59
The more I shoot the more I notice (like time slowing down, brass leaving the ejection port, the push of the stock into my shoulder, the smell of the powder, the rise and fall of the sights etc). When you do it enough you'll notice it too, it's like your mind is watching your body perform a well rehearsed play all by itself without thought. It's awareness (aka Zen).......................too deep for many.
I thought everyone noticed these things.
Maybe some people don't shoot enough. ;)
I'm normally to busy flinching and shutting my eyes as the disorientating loud report scares the crap out of me. I swear, my gun goes off and I black out for a few moments. Normally I realize what is going on, pants are a mess, rifle hanging from a sling, thumb in my mouth, occasionally laying in a fetal position on the ground...
Back on topic. One of my buddies used steel bed to mate his upper and lower to a very tight fit, no lateral or front and back movement. Just a slight up and down, but not really noticeable. It was also on a target gun for NRA highpower stuff, and I think he used one of those 53.7lb steel lowers.
Robb Jensen
07-06-07, 16:41
i'm usually focused on watching the bullet leave the barrel, watching it spin as sunlight glints off the rifling marks, as it arcs towards the target. :D
Your focus should be on your front sight.
I thought everyone noticed these things.
Maybe some people don't shoot enough. ;)
Exactly.
nationwide
07-06-07, 20:56
i'm usually focused on watching the bullet leave the barrel, watching it spin as sunlight glints off the rifling marks, as it arcs towards the target. :D
When I shoot my UZI down at the lease, doing full auto mag dumps with the sun setting behind me, I can see every bullet during a portion of it's flight reflecting the sun off the base of the bullet :cool:
Go to Lowe's, HD or any good hardware store and buy some #7 o-rings.
Remove your upper from the lower and slide this o-ring over the front pivot of the upper.
Reattach upper and lower and all slack/wiggle should be gone.
Best of all if/when the o-ring fails it'll be on the outside where it can't mess with your tigger group.
I've heard about this fix a lot of times. Currently I have no wiggle issues but just curious, does this O ring withstands the heat generated in the chamber that happens to be less than 1" appart from the front pivot? Do you have to change the O ring every time you use the rifle?
I belive its 99% impossible for the O ring to end in the FCG as its already outside of the receivers, but I think that after about 2 30 rounders you'll end up with a melt rubber mess at the front pivot :eek:
toddackerman
07-23-07, 00:07
If you don't like the wiggle (I don't either) use an Accuwedge, it doesn't make the rifle more accurate it just makes the wiggle stop. JP makes a two piece rear takedown screw that does the same thing but requires tools to take your AR apart, which is why I don't use one.
+1 0n the Accu Wedge. I have had the same one in one of my M4's for over 7000 rounds now, and it is still going strong. Also...there has been no deteriorzation of the rubber to get in the way of any of the trigger group. I check it every time, and see no reason to be concerned.
Tackl
So let me ask you this....
How much wiggle is too much wiggle? I realize that wiggle is acceptable, however, is there a point where it becomes unacceptable? Further, if a particular firearm has what would be deemed unacceptable slop, how does one remedy it short of replacing the upper or lower?
toddackerman
09-11-07, 12:13
So let me ask you this....
How much wiggle is too much wiggle? I realize that wiggle is acceptable, however, is there a point where it becomes unacceptable? Further, if a particular firearm has what would be deemed unacceptable slop, how does one remedy it short of replacing the upper or lower?
IMHO..."Too much wiggle" would interfere with the functioning and/ or increase wear on the rifle.
"Too much " for me is "ANY". I like things nice and tight, and the accu wedge does that on my rifle. In reality, most wouldn't even bother with it on my rifle because it's pretty solid "AS IS".
Tack
Anybody use an accuwedge on an LMT Lower (high-shelf lower). Looks like there is no room between the upper take-down post and high-shelf lower. Any suggestions?
For now Im learning to live with the wiggle, but its hard Man! :D
toddackerman
09-11-07, 13:48
Anybody use an accuwedge on an LMT Lower (high-shelf lower). Looks like there is no room between the upper take-down post and high-shelf lower. Any suggestions?
For now Im learning to live with the wiggle, but its hard Man! :D
SigFan,
The accu Wedge is very pliable and alterable. I don't have an LMT lower but am wondering that with a little "trimming" you might have some success.
The thing you don't want to do is alter the Accu Wedge in a way that it might unseat from it's position and end up somewhere in your trigger group! I wish I could be of more help, but I have never seen an LMT lower.
Hopefully someone else has tried this and will reply.?
My combo is a Bushy Lower (7 years old when the quality was much higher), and LMT MRP Upper.
Tack
Tack,
Funny you mentioned BM was better quailty 7 years ago. My first AR, I bought in 2/2000 was a bushmaster. I recently was at a gun shop looking over a new BM and I too noticed the quailty is not the same.... not by a long shot :D.
Anybody use an accuwedge on an LMT Lower (high-shelf lower). Looks like there is no room between the upper take-down post and high-shelf lower. Any suggestions?
For now Im learning to live with the wiggle, but its hard Man! :DI had to trim an Accu-Wedge for use on a Stag lower. The instruction sheet I got said you could trim it, and I trimmed from the bottom because it was easier that way. Be careful to trim a little and then test before you trim again. You can always trim more if need be, but once you trim too much, you can't make it thicker.
toddackerman
09-11-07, 16:39
I had to trim an Accu-Wedge for use on a Stag lower. The instruction sheet I got said you could trim it, and I trimmed from the bottom because it was easier that way. Be careful to trim a little and then test before you trim again. You can always trim more if need be, but once you trim too much, you can't make it thicker.
Excellent point! The tightness comes from the main/ round portion of the wedge. Too thin and you have lost your resistance to the upper.
Tack
Thanks.
One more thing. When I trimmed my AW, I looked through the takedown pin hole and made note of how far the post hole was from lining up with the takedown pin hole. Mine was off by about 1/8-inch, and I knew I could trim that much without making the AW too thin.
If you put in the AW, close the upper, and cannot see any of the post hole, you might want to reconsider trimming the AW to fit. If there really is "no room between the upper take-down post and high-shelf lower," trimming an Accu-Wedge may not be a good idea. If the AW becomes too thin, the edges of the rear post might cut through it, and you could end up with pieces of AW in the wrong places.
Anyone ever had one come lose? I kinda get alittle scared putting something inside the reciever that could cause major havoc. Fulton's site says that Colts come/came standard with a weddgie installed, any truth to that?
toddackerman
09-11-07, 19:19
Anyone ever had one come lose? I kinda get alittle scared putting something inside the reciever that could cause major havoc. Fulton's site says that Colts come/came standard with a weddgie installed, any truth to that?
Nope! If it is fitted properly it can't come lose. Been using the same one fo years and 8000 rounds in my lower. Still tight.
Tack
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