View Full Version : Barrel nut removal help - Lightweight barrel will not stop rotating in vice jaws
notorious_ar15
08-28-10, 17:36
Hey guys, I have searched & tried all the suggestions I can find, but I can't seem to make any progress.
I am trying to remove my barrel nut (factory BCM upper with lightweight barrel). I have the Brownell's 4" aluminum vice block jaws, and have a ton of the powder type rosin, but the barrel will not stop rotating in the aluminum vice block jaws.
I degreased both the barrel & the vise jaws, then covered them in rosin. I have even tried cutting lengths of garden hose to get this thing to stay put but no luck.
The problem I think is that the small circular barrel grooves are too big for the lightweight barrel. I have also tried the diamond shaped cut-outs in the vice jaws, but the barrel still spins.
I also have a polymer DPMS upper receiver block enclosure with the insert, but anytime I put any pressure on the barrel nut, I can see already that the upper receiver is twisting in the enclosure. I am weary of putting any more pressure on the barrel nut using the DPMS blocks.
I even made a set of wood clamps this afternoon, but they will not hold the barrel without spinning either.
At this point, I am considering just sending the upper & free float tube off for installation, but would really like to finish this project myself.
Anybody have any suggestions, or know what I am doing wrong?
TIA
get a panther claw.. http://www.jsesurplus.com/dpmspantherreceiverclawblock.aspx
The aluminum jaws you are using are for the removal of a flash hider, not the barrel nut.
JR TACTICAL
08-28-10, 17:57
also I have seen some people but locktite on the threads of the barrel nut(why I don't know???) but try taking a propane torch(15.00 bucks at home depot) and heating up the barrel nut it just might help.
notorious_ar15
08-28-10, 18:06
Aside from the Brownell's aluminum vise block jaws, this is like the other upper receiver vise block I have:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22385/Product/AR_15_M16_UPPER_RECEIVER_ACTION_BLOCK
would this be appropriate for the torque necessary to remove / install the barrel nut?
I can see the upper receiver twist in there & am afraid of having to buy another BCM upper receiver.
I use it quite frequently and never have an issue. I would also put some Kroil on there if you have it.
Aside from the Brownell's aluminum vise block jaws, this is like the other upper receiver vise block I have:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22385/Product/AR_15_M16_UPPER_RECEIVER_ACTION_BLOCK
would this be appropriate for the torque necessary to remove / install the barrel nut?
I can see the upper receiver twist in there & am afraid of having to buy another BCM upper receiver.
I have one of the clamshell receiver blocks too, and never liked it much. I now use the Block Worx (http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=78_55&products_id=180) fixtures, which are similar to the DPMS block that bkb0000 suggested, but they have both top and bottom pieces.
Hey guys, I have searched & tried all the suggestions I can find, but I can't seem to make any progress.
I am trying to remove my barrel nut (factory BCM upper with lightweight barrel). I have the Brownell's 4" aluminum vice block jaws, and have a ton of the powder type rosin, but the barrel will not stop rotating in the aluminum vice block jaws.
Anybody have any suggestions, or know what I am doing wrong?
TIA
Holding the barrel isn't going to help you get the nut unbolted from the receiver. You have to keep the receiver from rotating, not the barrel. Doing it your way is putting the same amount of total torque on the receiver, but it's all being focused on the indexing pin.
I second the Panther Claw. One thing I have done for a particularly stubborn barrel nut is put the barrel wrench on the nut and attack it with an air chisel with the V bit inserted - push the V against the end of the wrench and give it a short burst or two.
Aside from the Brownell's aluminum vise block jaws, this is like the other upper receiver vise block I have:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22385/Product/AR_15_M16_UPPER_RECEIVER_ACTION_BLOCK
would this be appropriate for the torque necessary to remove / install the barrel nut?
I can see the upper receiver twist in there & am afraid of having to buy another BCM upper receiver.
Place the whole barreled upper receiver assy in the freezer for a few hours. Then, using the clam shell receiver block you list above, attempt to bust loose the barrel nut.
The difference in thermal expansion coefficient of the aluminum and steel can often times help bust loose that stubborn barrel nut!
notorious_ar15
08-28-10, 22:47
Thanks for all the help, guys.
<Edit:> sorry, got logged off.
The clamshell upper receiver block worked along with some Kroil oil. Got the barrel nut off. I feel like I gained some useful knowledge today.
Thank you again!
CENTCOM_Survivor
09-12-10, 14:02
I'm having a hell of a time with my Colt. The nut does not want to come loose. I've been soaking it with Militec oil but it wont budge.
Which is better, the freezer or a torch?
notorious_ar15
09-12-10, 17:26
I'm having a hell of a time with my Colt. The nut does not want to come loose. I've been soaking it with Militec oil but it wont budge.
Which is better, the freezer or a torch?
Not sure how much effect Militec is going to have. If you can't get Kroil Oil, Liquid Wrench has worked well for me.
As for freezer or torch - I myself try to be careful with the application of heat, but it can help with loctite. I don't like putting stuff in the freezer, as I get condensation as soon as I take it out - just my 2 cents.
<Edit:> like gotm4 said, just found some mention of using freezing per this thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3864
Robb Jensen
09-12-10, 17:33
Many times Colts are insanely tight.
Freezing works better than heat. Heat just makes the aluminum receiver expand tighter in the steel barrel nut. Aluminum expands faster than steel.
CENTCOM_Survivor
09-12-10, 18:01
Many times Colts are insanely tight.
Freezing works better than heat. Heat just makes the aluminum receiver expand tighter in the steel barrel nut. Aluminum expands faster than steel.
Thanks I'll try freezing, I already cracked the upper receiver so it cant hurt.
Robb Jensen
09-12-10, 18:39
Thanks I'll try freezing, I already cracked the upper receiver so it cant hurt.
If that doesn't work you can get Medieval on it cutting off the delta ring assy and using a plumbers pipe wrench to remove the barrel nut. When done you'll need a new barrel nut.
You cracked the upper? Damn, that sucks.
Thanks I'll try freezing, I already cracked the upper receiver so it cant hurt.
CENTCOM_Survivor
09-12-10, 19:48
You cracked the upper? Damn, that sucks.
Yeah, I went old school (wood) without a real receiver block and just my luck it cracked at the ejection port. After that I went medieval in the vice but it still wont budge.
If that doesn't work you can get Medieval on it cutting off the delta ring assy and using a plumbers pipe wrench to remove the barrel nut. When done you'll need a new barrel nut.
I'm going to the VTAC hand guards so I have the new ring assembly/barrel nut. I think my bolt cutters will fit over the delta ring.
Thanks I'll try freezing, I already cracked the upper receiver so it cant hurt.
wholly shit, man.. well a new receiver is only $90 at bravo.
get a panther claw!
CENTCOM_Survivor
09-12-10, 23:43
wholly shit, man.. well a new receiver is only $90 at bravo.
get a panther claw!
New receiver and panther claw are inbound. I think the Gremlins followed me from my car project, seems stuff always goes wrong there too :p
Just to piggyback on what the other guys have said, I'd only apply heat if you have reason to believe, or reasonable suspicion, that there is locktite involved. If it's a factory Colt then this is unlikely. I also wouldn't proceed with any of this without some kind of purpose-build upper receiver block.
I had a hell of a time with an LMT nut years ago and after injuring myself and breaking a GI barrel wrench, I put it in the freezer overnight and the next day it popped right off. FWIW, in the case of the LMT I don't think they used any kind of anti-seize and then torqued the hell out of the nut.
CENTCOM_Survivor
09-13-10, 07:12
Thanks Rob, I have the upper in the freezer now (my wife will love this). I should have the panther block tomorrow and we will see what happens.
Thanks for the help everyone and thanks notorious_ar15 for starting this thread for me to piggy back on.
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz293/CENTCOM_Survivor/Guns/freezercopy.jpg
Promptly slap the shit out of yourself for not making sure that you had the right stuff on hand.
Yeah, I went old school (wood) without a real receiver block and just my luck it cracked at the ejection port. After that I went medieval in the vice but it still wont budge.
I'm going to the VTAC hand guards so I have the new ring assembly/barrel nut. I think my bolt cutters will fit over the delta ring.
The proper tool for the proper job.
Be very cautious using heat.
There is a technique used to bend heat treated 7075 aluminum called "hot forming" that can be done with a heat gun. The heat temporarily softens the aluminum so it can be formed, such as when removing a dent, without cracking the material. It does not take much heat and one has to be careful not to over heat the metal or heat it too many times or for too long. To do so will remove the heat treat and cause damage in the grain of the metal.
Trying to remove the barrel while the receiver is hot could distort the receiver.
If I recall, the use of a torch of any kind was forbidden as the open flame could cause permanent damage to aluminum
CENTCOM_Survivor
09-13-10, 22:07
Promptly slap the shit out of yourself for not making sure that you had the right stuff on hand.
:suicide2: Yeah, live and learn.
I recently removed the barrel nut on a mil-spec AR-15 upper using the following:
Brownells upper receiver block, clamped in a vise.
http://images17.fotki.com/v1621/photos/5/41655/8174037/Brownellsupperrcrblock-vi.png
And this armorers wrench, with the additional leverage of a 12 inch cheater (that is, I slipped a 12 inch piece of galvanized iron pipe over the end of the wrench). The barrel nut was tight, but it came loose without too much fuss. I did not remove the barrel from the upper itself since I was only installing a new hand guard.
http://images51.fotki.com/v750/photos/5/41655/8174037/M16_armorers_wrench-vi.png
I've read the initial post several time, the rest of them too, am I missing something about the barrel removal?
CENTCOM_Survivor
09-14-10, 21:33
The freezer did the trick!! I used the panther claw, freezer, wrench, and breaker pipe and it finally gave. The panther claw and freezer is what I was missing the first time, I wont make that ($$) mistake again.
Thanks for everyones help!
The freezer did the trick!! I used the panther claw, freezer, wrench, and breaker pipe and it finally gave. The panther claw and freezer is what I was missing the first time, I wont make that ($$) mistake again.
Thanks for everyones help!
........... ;)
Yeah, I went old school (wood) without a real receiver block and just my luck it cracked at the ejection port.
I keep a record going of the results when this method is used, and when I see the "wood block method" mentioned, I like to post those results in hopes of preventing someone from destroying a serviceable weapon, or in some cases, their knuckles!
______________________________________________
I just had to buy a new upper because I used the blocks of wood to remove a barrel and cracked the receiver. Buy the right tools! There cheap compare to replacing parts.
Posted :: Yesterday 8:17:20 PM MDT
I am trying to remove the barrel from my Bushy so I can install my nifty new DD rail. Got the FSB and SureFire muzzle brake off okay. Using the DPMS armorers tool, all I have accomplished so far is to destroy the receiver itself. No, I wasn't using the Claw. Yes I have one on order along with my new stripped receiver.
I had the flattop upper clamped firmly sideways in a vice w/Delrin jaws. Put some muscle on it, heard a pop and thought great, it broke loose. It broke alright. Cracked the receiver right below the ejection port. So I soaked it it penetrating oil overnight while I mourned my lost receiver and berated myself for my cheapness for not buying the proper tools to start.
Today, I clamped the receiver in the vice again. Already broken, can't hurt it now right? I even took the padded jaws out so the steel could bite into the aluminum. Put the arm on it again. Popped the receiver right out of the vice and skinned a knuckle or two. More swearing. Wife and kids heard me upstairs. Now my 3 year old son is running around saying "son of a bealpole!" at the top of his lungs. Or something like that.
Somebody help me! I'm not willing to give up on the barrel too!
Posted :: 10/5/2008 5:44:11 PM MDT
BUY YOUR OWN UPPER BLOCK!!!
That is the best advice I can possibly give, it will be the most useful $40 you ever spend. I decided to craft my own upper block out of some thick sturdy wood and paid the price by scratching the shit out of my upper and skinning my knuckles pretty badly.
Posted: Today 12:07:41 PM MST
During my first build I managed to tweak my Rock River flat top upper ever so slightly so that the bolt will seat when forced, but normally not on its own. There is no apparent visible damage, but I know the receiver is out of true because of the issue with the bolt not wanting to seat on its own. This happened because I was trying to install the barrel in a vise with a couple 2x4s. I ordered a new upper, and the gun now has about 1K rounds through it so I learned my lesson the hard way. My question is, is there any way I can have that upper re-trued? It's just sitting in a box in my office, so it's not doing much for me, but now I have a new lower to play with. I just thought I'd ask in case anyone has ever heard of that kind of a repair. Thanks!
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:14:11 PM MDT
I purchased a cosmetic blem upper to replace a upper that I cracked during a barrel change (did not use the proper tools, which I now have). I noticed as I inserted the barrel into the new cosmetic blem upper there was a lot of play. I measured the inside diameter and it was 1.001 to 1.002. I have two other stripped uppers and they both measured 1.000. Is the blem upper out of spec and is it safe to use?
Posted: Today 11:43:23 AM
Back many years ago before I had a vice block I used to wrap my uppers in a piece of leather and put them in a vice to change barrels. I wasn't paying attention one time and bent the area you are having a problem with. It wasn't noticeable until I slid the BCG in and felt the resistance at the port door. I put the upper on the work bench and used a block of wood and a dead blow hammer to straiten it back out. I've never had a problem with that upper and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I had to. I did get on the ball and get a vice block and barrel blocks after it happened. Anyway if it was me Id straiten it out and go from there. If it bugs you knowing it's been bent then replace it, but if you run it and it doesn't bother you then forget it and go on.
Posted: Today 10:13:21 AM
yallknowho
09-17-10, 17:10
Do the Brownell's barrel blocks clamp the lightweight barrel enough so you can install a muzzle device? I need to do this soon and am wondering.
Pretty much everything was covered but I will add that if you use aluminum barrel blocks and have a spinning issue take a rag get it wet and install between the barrel and aluminum blocks. This will eliminate most spinning issues.
AR15barrels
09-21-10, 18:28
If that doesn't work you can get Medieval on it cutting off the delta ring assy and using a plumbers pipe wrench to remove the barrel nut. When done you'll need a new barrel nut.
Bah, who needs a pipe wrench when you have a lathe? :D
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/barrel-nut-removal3.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/barrel-nut-removal.jpg
AR15barrels
09-21-10, 18:34
Do the Brownell's barrel blocks clamp the lightweight barrel enough so you can install a muzzle device? I need to do this soon and am wondering.
If you have a pinned-on front sight base, get some 1/4" thick leather and wrap the FSB in that like a taco.
Put that in the bench vise and lock it down.
That will hold the barrel just fine for removal and installation of a muzzle device.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.