View Full Version : BCM Gunfighter???
JR TACTICAL
08-28-10, 21:31
I know I ask alot of questions, but I'm just trying to get informed on things, right when I think I have a good handle on things I learn something completely new...
Anyway, is the BCM gunfighter really worth the money the upper I'm waiting has a forged charging handle already and I am really thinking about getting one but its hard to justify spending 50 bucks on a new CH when I will get a perfectly good one
what do you think???
JR,
Please try and use the search function. There are numerous threads here concerning the BCM handle and its' value. In short yes they are very good.
I know I ask alot of questions, but I'm just trying to get informed on things, right when I think I have a good handle on things I learn something completely new...
Anyway, is the BCM gunfighter really worth the money the upper I'm waiting has a forged charging handle already and I am really thinking about getting one but its hard to justify spending 50 bucks on a new CH when I will get a perfectly good one
what do you think???
JR TACTICAL
08-28-10, 21:53
copy sorry
The search function is your friend and YES the BCM GF is absolutely worth it--I use the midsized one and use;) Brownell's LE/MIL pricing
Very robust handle. Well-made but there is a design defect (IMHO) that creates an occasional problem for at least some people.
http://mccollister.info/chargehandle.jpg
Military Times review of the BCM GUNFIGHTER Charging Handle.
MT Review Link (http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/01/13/bravo-company-gunfighter-charging-handle/)
No pinch points using either of the two below methods, just a solid product that works well.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/bcm-gunfighter/img_4497-800-mt.jpg
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/bcm-gunfighter/img_4498-800-mt.jpg
Military Times review of the BCM GUNFIGHTER Charging Handle.
MT Review Link (http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/01/13/bravo-company-gunfighter-charging-handle/)
No pinch points using either of the two below methods, just a solid product that works well.
Nice review Stick. I respect your opinion but the pinch point does exist, and the methods you picture are the way I do it. Except for the gloves....maybe that's the solution.
m24shooter
08-29-10, 14:11
I've used the Mod 3 & 4 since they came out. I like them both for different requirements, and I think they are definitely worth the money.
xbmxracerx
08-29-10, 14:31
I have the Mod 4 and love it. I use a pair of my cycling gloves but also have a pair of Mechanix Impact gloves
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/emufreak1/Newads2.jpg
I've used the Mod 3 & 4 since they came out. I like them both for different requirements, and I think they are definitely worth the money.
FWIW I have the Mod 4 and have no problems with or without gloves.
Wish they made them for us wrong hand people;)
FWIW I have the Mod 4 and have no problems with or without gloves.
Don't get me wrong...it's a nice charging handle. I have a Mod 3 and a Mod 4 and just bought another Mod 4 for an SBR I'm building. But it's a design that has a flaw in it, and a google search on "pinch BCM gunfighter" or something like that will return a volume of hits that shows that this pinching business is not a rare event.
Just sayin'
Grease Monkey
08-30-10, 16:12
Yeah, mine got me too. Still love them though.
Eurodriver
08-30-10, 18:41
I just got my first BCM gunfighter in the mail today. First thing I noticed was that it pinched me. I will either use gloves to be cautious when racking the handle back.
DaBears_85
08-30-10, 18:51
Wish they made them for us wrong hand people;)
You and me both.
I have had a BCM Mod 4 on a BCM 14.5" middy for a few range sessions now and I have never been pinched my the charging handle. The carbine has been shot by at least 7 other people and no one has ever complained of being pinched.
It is a great addition to a fighting carbine.
Cameron
Edited to add I just ran the charging handle 20 or so times and could not get it to pinch no matter how I pulled on it.
RetreatHell
08-30-10, 21:04
I think it's just some of us that occasionally get pinched. It usually only happens to me when doing a "slow" press check, but I've had the living shit pinched out of my index finger on multiple occasions now when running the gun hard, and it stings like a sumbitch and makes me do this embarrassing "yelp" thing where my voice sounds all funky and makes my friends laugh at me:(
LOL:p
But yeah, it DOES happen every now and again. It has nothing to do with doing anything right or wrong, it's just having a chunk of your index finger in the wrong place at the wrong time I guess. It's more of an annoying pain than actual serious pain, kinda like a paper cut: it just pisses ya off.
Regardless, you won't find ANY charging handles in ANY of my guns other than BCM Gunfighters. They're hands-down the best CH I've ever experienced. Even though I occasionally get bitten by the little buggers, the little temporary and annoying pain is well worth the other advantages the GF gives the operator.
I have had a BCM Mod 4 on a BCM 14.5" middy for a few range sessions now and I have never been pinched my the charging handle. The carbine has been shot by at least 7 other people and no one has ever complained of being pinched.
It is a great addition to a fighting carbine.
Cameron
Edited to add I just ran the charging handle 20 or so times and could not get it to pinch no matter how I pulled on it.
Do you need one? No. Is it worth the extra money, yes. Don't buy it right off. You can always add one later if you'd like and you can keep your stock unit as a spare for you or a buddy.
I've pinched the crap out of my hands several times with them. I always run with gloves when I can so it doesnt really happen when Im shooting.
Despite the pinching issues - the rate they disappear for secondhand sale is a pretty great indicator of how good they are... or that Paul is having to give away the basic forged handles.
Despite the pinching issues - the rate they disappear for secondhand sale is a pretty great indicator of how good they are... or that Paul is having to give away the basic forged handles.
Agreed. They could be better, but they're the best game in town. So far.
DualBerettas
09-02-10, 14:30
Don't grab it on top with your finger over it, that's how flesh can get in there. Grab it by pulling back on only the lever, while just after that putting your thumb behind the charging handle. Think of it like pinching the lever and retracting, not grabbing and racking like an AK bolt.
DB
Don't grab it on top with your finger over it, that's how flesh can get in there. Grab it by pulling back on only the lever, while just after that putting your thumb behind the charging handle. Think of it like pinching the lever and retracting, not grabbing and racking like an AK bolt.
DB
You're saying don't grab it like this?
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/bcm-gunfighter/img_4497-800-mt.jpg
82ndtrooper
09-02-10, 19:18
I don't seem to get "pinched" that often and I use the MOD 4 large chargers.
I simply wouldn't do without them on my rifles. Much easier charging than any other so-called "large latch" charger.
YMMV
NCSt8man1999
09-02-10, 20:37
Had mine for a while, and I use the support hand to run the charging handle, and I have never been pinched by the handle. Makes it a lot easier to run the gun, in my opinion. Definitely worth the money.
Failure2Stop
09-02-10, 20:46
I have not tried Mods 3 or 4.
I bypassed them due to the reports of pinching and went straight to the Mod 5.
I have yet to have a pinch issue, but I am still evaluationg the CH to see if I want it on my fighting gun.
The method I use to rack the CH for anything other than a press-check is to place the thumb of my left (support side) thumb behind the CH, pointing towad the right, while pinching with the hook of the left index finger. I do it this way for a few reasons:
-It keeps the CH moving in a straight line to the rear without lateral pressure
-If the bolt is locked to the rear but I am unaware of the fact it prevents me from applying lateral pressure and immediately lets me return it forward with the thumb if needed so the CH isn't hanging loose during manipulation or bolt return, which can cause a failure to feed/chamber/lock.
-It feels more controlled to me, as subjective as that statement is, and works well with the standard CH.
For comparison I like and use the LMT tactical CH, and years ago I stopped using the extended CHs from anybody else, opting for the standard CH over all of them due to snagging and clear design intent for a knife-hand action (as seen in Stick's second picture), which I do not prefer. I only went to the LMT and now the BCM offerings within the release of the LMT, and only due to their more streamlined yet effective design.
RogerinTPA
09-02-10, 21:15
I have Mod 4s on my ARs for a while now and I'm very impressed with the extra leverage to quickly clear a malfunction. To date, I have experienced no pinching issues.
I don't seem to get "pinched" that often and I use the MOD 4 large chargers.
The size of the lever doesn't matter. They all have the same pinch point.
No pinches for me and I'm bare handed 99% of the time (not discounting ANYONE else's results). Then again, an AR in my mitts feels more like a child's toy or what an MP5 feels like to many. I say it's damn sure worth the cash...
The size of the lever doesn't matter. They all have the same pinch point.
i only got pinched the first few times i used it. now it never happens. best damn CH on the planet.:D
No pinches here either, I've never run with gloves. I bought the Mod 3 by mistake thinking three was smaller than four. It was too big for my liking it poked me in the chest and ribs while slung.
No pinches to date with my Mod 5. I wish Paul would offer a Gunfighter option on his complete uppers with BCG and CH!
Thomas M-4
09-03-10, 08:44
The size of the lever doesn't matter. They all have the same pinch point.
What pinch point . I have never been pinched by my mod4.
Got the Mod 4 and love it.
No pinching and the latch does not snag on the Eagle LE chest rig that I use. Good Stuff!
I have used a medium (whatever mod that is) on my training gun for a while now. Very durable and innovative latch design. BUT, yes, I was pinched a few times, HARD. The last time, it made a nice blood blister. And no, I am not doing it wrong. I modded the handle a bit to eliminate the pinch point (and made a thread about it, and received much flak) and couldn't be happier now. Just if they came from BCM with the mod, there would be much rejoicing. FWIW, I don't think the mod5 (or whatever the newest, small latch is) has the same pinch point, from looking at the pics. The latch face doesn't extend up to the same height as the handle body, so no pinch point that I can see. In before the thread gets deleted...
Al U. 5811
09-03-10, 11:01
I have Mods 3, 4, and 5. Haven't been pinched by any of them yet. 5 being the newest and I have less time use with it.
I have then BCM Mod3 large latch type and haven't had any trouble with pinching while actually running the gun. I have gotten pinched while trying to see if you can. :)
I haven't gotten pinched yet...Gonna go take a closer look at it now.
If pinch is an issue for you, try an LMT CH.
http://www.lewismachine.net/product.php?p=200&cid=6&session=e4c5fe61d19366b1dc346c939b9fdef7
http://www.lewismachine.net/images/product/LMP103T.jpg
RetreatHell
09-03-10, 15:25
I'll keep my BCM Gunfighter and occasional blood blisters thank you very much!:D ;)
If pinch is an issue for you, try an LMT CH.
http://www.lewismachine.net/product.php?p=200&cid=6&session=e4c5fe61d19366b1dc346c939b9fdef7
http://www.lewismachine.net/images/product/LMP103T.jpg
Good tip, thanks.
Anyway, for me....problem solved.
http://mccollister.info/bcmch.jpg
Quiet-Matt
09-03-10, 16:58
Anyway, for me....problem solved.
http://mccollister.info/bcmch.jpg
There ya go boys, identify the problem and do something about it. Nice work Hmac.:big_boss:
Anyway, for me....problem solved.
http://mccollister.info/bcmch.jpg
Perfect! I like your idea better. I cut into the handle housing a little, and wish I would have done it your way. I will try that on my next gunfighter. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks. It was about 30 seconds with a bench grinder (not counting the time to apply the band-aid), a little 400-grit sandpaper and some Birchwood-Casey flat black. No pinching now.
I needed another one of these charging handles. Noveske now puts them on all their rifles as OEM and you can order them separately, so I did. I was interested to note that this new one has some beveling to the upper edge of the lever, and the gap appears to be a little wider. If this is what all of the BCM Gunfighter CH's are like now, it looks like BCM redesigned them to address the pinching issue. Nice.
http://mccollister.info/NoveskeCH.jpg
It is great to see the gunfighter is getting used in guns from manufacturers DD has it in the Vickers gun too. Great photos.
I needed another one of these charging handles. Noveske now puts them on all their rifles as OEM and you can order them separately, so I did. I was interested to note that this new one has some beveling to the upper edge of the lever, and the gap appears to be a little wider. If this is what all of the BCM Gunfighter CH's are like now, it looks like BCM redesigned them to address the pinching issue. Nice.
http://mccollister.info/NoveskeCH.jpg
Ok I just caved and bought two of the Noveske BCM CH's.
Also bought the wife a cool Noveske T-Shirt for Christmas. :p
I hope she doesn't hold it against me. "Remember that one Christmas when you bought me a gun shirt!" I can hear it now.
Ok I just caved and bought two of the Noveske BCM CH's.
Also bought the wife a cool Noveske T-Shirt for Christmas. :p
I hope she doesn't hold it against me. "Remember that one Christmas when you bought me a gun shirt!" I can hear it now.
if I got my wife a t-shirt I damn sure wish she would hold it against me.
and maybe rub it around a little... :D
I needed another one of these charging handles. Noveske now puts them on all their rifles as OEM and you can order them separately, so I did. I was interested to note that this new one has some beveling to the upper edge of the lever, and the gap appears to be a little wider. If this is what all of the BCM Gunfighter CH's are like now, it looks like BCM redesigned them to address the pinching issue. Nice.
http://mccollister.info/NoveskeCH.jpg
No way. Impossible! There is no pinching issue with the gunfighters. If you get pinched, then "you are doing it wrong". It is not a legitimate complaint, and THERE IS NO NEED TO MODIFY THE DESIGN.
Just kidding. At least that is what I was told by the masses, when I first modded mine wayyyyy back when, and posted pics, for others' benefit. I guess there was a number of folks that spoke up afterall. At least enough to warrant a design change.
Its good news, at any rate. I have two more mod4's enroute right now, I hope they are the newer design. If not, I will take a few minutes and mod them like you did, Hmac. I like your mod better than the way I did it on my first handle....yours is simpler, and doesn't require disassembling the latch. Nice work!
I'm guessing that the Noveske handles are all the new design since they're brand-new. I hope your BCM is too..likely some of the old design are still in the supply chain in some places.
Fixed the issue a long time ago by adding a latch that gives me a far better grip on the handle. A much superrior set up IMO. ;)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_3482.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_3490.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_34911.jpg
IMO this......
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/BCMPRI01.jpg
Is much better than this.....
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/BCMMod301.jpg
:D
Fixed the issue a long time ago by adding a latch that gives me a far better grip on the handle. A much superrior set up IMO. ;)
Clever. But now there's no need.
Terminator2003
12-18-10, 17:57
Fixed the issue a long time ago by adding a latch that gives me a far better grip on the handle. A much superrior set up IMO. ;) :D
Where did that latch come from, or should I say, who makes it?
PRI makes them and they are very good.
That's the latch on the PRI GasBuster, a $90ish charging handle, but you can get the latch separately.
I got the mod3 today and I love it.
Clever. But now there's no need.It was not meant to solve the pinching problem, it was done to give me a much better grip on the handle itself, which it greatly improves. So IMO there is still a need for it to be done.
I began doing the PRI combat latch modification very shortly after the release of the Gunfighter and I never even knew of the pinching issue at that time. The fixing of the pinching issue, for those who have that problem, was just a result of solving another problem as I saw it. I still continue to modify the Gunfighter with the PRI combat latch no matter what. The bad thing is that everyone who tries mine wants it done to theirs and I get a bit tired of doing them as I don't profit from it.
It was not meant to solve the pinching problem, it was done to give me a much better grip on the handle itself, which it greatly improves. So IMO there is still a need for it to be done.
I began doing the PRI combat latch modification very shortly after the release of the Gunfighter and I never even knew of the pinching issue at that time. The fixing of the pinching issue, for those who have that problem, was just a result of solving another problem as I saw it. I still continue to modify the Gunfighter with the PRI combat latch no matter what. The bad thing is that everyone who tries mine wants it done to theirs and I get a bit tired of doing them as I don't profit from it.
Is there an advantage to putting the PRI on the gunfighter rather than a regular charging handle? Are they not the same thing minus the latch system?
Is there an advantage to putting the PRI on the gunfighter rather than a regular charging handle? Are they not the same thing minus the latch system?Maybe its me, but I am not understanding your question.
To clarify, I like the beefy design of the BCM Gunfighters charging handle. I also like how BCM engineered their latch so that the pressure is taken off of the roll pin and distributed to the handle and latch. The roll pin really is the weak link in a standard charging handle especially in the design of the standard PRI gasbuster. IMO the PRI gasbuster and its latch design places much more tension on the roll pin than that of a standard charging handle and latch design, which is why they fail more than a standard charging handles roll pin. However I really like the grip I can get with the PRI combat latch and my solution to this was to use the PRI combat latch (not the PRI Big latch) and dremel the PRI latch to mimic the BCM latch. When done correctly it does the same thing as the BCM latch and takes all of the pressure off the roll pin. So I have the advantage of the engineering design of the BCM Gunfighter which takes the pressure off the roll pin, the beefier BCM handle itself and the type of grip that I prefer from the PRI combat latch. The added benefit for those affected is that this set up does not cause pinching like the original designs. But again that wasn't my purpose for the PRI combat latch modification, it was just a side effect.
So basically, with the PRI adapted with the BCM engineering, you get the best of both the PRI combat latch grip and the durability of the BCM handle and design. I do not like the BCM latch and how my hand conforms to manipulate the latch. If you look at the 2 pictures above, I prefer the grip I get on the PRI combat latch over the standard BCM style mod 3/4 latches. IMO this was the good thing about the PRI combat latch, but now the weak link of the roll pin issue in the PRI is removed. IMO you get the best of both. However this is of course subject to the users tastes / preferences.
Quiet-Matt
12-19-10, 07:18
Like Surf, I really like the PRI latch. I grip it just like Surf with my thumb on the back. Back in march I tried beefing up a standard CH using a large roll pin to mimic the solid back strap on the BCM. I had no idea if it would last, and fully expected to replace it with a BCM when it broke. Well it's still going strong. Maybe one day :cray:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5kA3JwNkBxc/TQ4CQXj8G0I/AAAAAAAAG-o/R3NaPkf4M5s/s720/DSC00799.JPG
Maybe its me, but I am not understanding your question.
To clarify...
You answered my question, I did not realize that the entire charging handle was different (BCM vs Standard).
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.