Bulding a Bolt Action Rifle

[ca_fireman19]

I have finally finished my "AR" and find myself with too much free time. I have always wanted a "custom" long range bolt action rifle and I figured why not build it?

I have several questions I would like some feedback on. Rather than make this a huge discussion, I'll just number my questions to make them easier to answer.

1) Should I go with a Remington 700 style action or a Mauser style?

2) Where can I find the receiver?

3) What would be the most versatile round? I am looking for something readily available for plinking and fairly cheap...my thought is either .308/7.62x51, .30-06 or .300 WinMag.

4) What barrel should I go with?

I don't know much about this type of rifle, so if I've tipped my hand that I don't really know what I'm doing, go easy on me. And lastly, without trying to sound cheap, I am not looking to spend a fortue on this...I saw receivers on Brownells for $1800...that AIN'T happening...Thanks for the help.

[maximus83]

I'm in a similar situation and not an expert on precision bolt actions. I currently own a Savage 10 FLP in .308 which I've had customized somewhat, and it will drive tacks. But some guys on this forum convinced me that as lefty, I might consider getting a RH action (there are several reasons why, when shooting prone or benched, this makes sense). So I decided to try a Rem 700 RH SPS Tactical in .308, just picked it up. I got the Rem because, even though there are other accurate and reliable actions out there, the Rem is a very well known action that a lot of folks build on. So you'll have no problem finding folks to work on it, and there are lots of aftermarket parts options which will make it fairly easy to upgrade it any way you want. Of course, Savage is no slouch in that category either, but I was ready to try a Rem. If I end up liking one of these two rifles a lot better than the other, I'll sell the other one. Bottom line, if starting today I'd suggest the Rem action, to answer your first question.

As for question (3), I chose .308 because similar to the Rem 700 action, it is so widely used (in both mil and civilian markets), there are lots of factory loads, ballistic info, and a large supply of relatively affordable ammo for it. Plus, .308 is inherently easy on barrels; you'll get the longest barrel life out of a .308 before your accuracy starts to degrade. Finally, I wanted something with softer recoil that was still capable of going 800 to 1000 yards, and .308 fits that pretty well.

[ca_fireman19]

After starting this thread, I did a little shopping. I found the "Remington 700 SPS Tactical". It looks almost like a cheaper reincarnation of the old Remington 700P (police sniper rifle). Does anyone have anything solid on this rifle? For $550 it seems too good to be true.

And thank you to Maximus83 for the input.

[a1fabweld]

After starting this thread, I did a little shopping. I found the "Remington 700 SPS Tactical". It looks almost like a cheaper reincarnation of the old Remington 700P (police sniper rifle). Does anyone have anything solid on this rifle? For $550 it seems too good to be true.

And thank you to Maximus83 for the input.

I had a SPS Tactical but sold it earlier this year. I started shooting to 1K, & while it could be done with handloads & lighter bullets, a 20" barrel is not ideal for that distance. Factory FGMM 175grain ammo would go subsonic around 900yards. I ended up with a Rem 5R which has a 24" barrel for shooting 1k matches. Go with a longer barrel if you are trying to go out past 900yds. Also, building a bolt gun is not like bolting together an AR. You need a lathe & chamber reamer to get your headspace correct among other specialty tool & lots of experience on how to do all this. Either have someone who knows how to build a bolt gun build it for you or buy a factory rifle. Good luck.

[Gutshot John]

While a slightly longer barrel will make it easier, shooting an SPS out to 1000 yards is certainly doable with decent ammunition and practice, I've done it. I can hit 900 (12x12" steel) with Hornady 165gr TAP Barrier consistently.

[austinN4]

I found the "Remington 700 SPS Tactical". It looks almost like a cheaper reincarnation of the old Remington 700P (police sniper rifle). Does anyone have anything solid on this rifle? For $550 it seems too good to be true.
Reviews of different rifles including the 700P, 700P LTR and 700 SPS tactical: http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm

I am looking to buy, not build, and the price difference I am finding between the 700P LTR and the 700 SPS Tactical is significant:
700P LTR = $919
700 SPS = $557

Looks like I am in for a SPS Tactical.

[m24shooter]

After starting this thread, I did a little shopping. I found the "Remington 700 SPS Tactical". It looks almost like a cheaper reincarnation of the old Remington 700P (police sniper rifle). Does anyone have anything solid on this rifle? For $550 it seems too good to be true.

And thank you to Maximus83 for the input.

I went from this:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/boltguns/m700spst.jpg

to this:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/boltguns/SPSTright.jpg

The SPS T is a great project gun, as it does very well right out of the box. It can certainly push out to 1K with some work and the right round. The stock that comes on it is not that great, and will flex enough to contact the barrel if you shoot from a pod or rest. the Hogue stock is not of a conventional construction, and it shows in the amount of flex.
You can go as far as you want with it. If you simply put it in a better stock, you can stop there with the result being a very good rifle.
I think there are several threads on it here.

[ca_fireman19]

Can you give me a list of the modifications you made and an approximate cost for each one? Thanks.

[m24shooter]

H-S LTR stock: got it off the Hide, it was a take-off. About $150.
CDI DBM kit: About $300 with a 10 round mag, $60 for inletting.
Badger one piece base: About $130.
Badger medium rings: About $140.
SWFA SS 3-9x42 FFP: About $600.
Badger bolt knob: About $30. Install was about $15.
SEI Vortex: About $60. Install was about $30.
Bobro Gen 2: About $200. Rail adapter, I don't know.
I also replaced the trigger with a standard 700 model that was tuned to about 3.5#.
Sling is a Turner M1907, which I think runs about $50.
Extra mags are about $75-80 for the 10 rounders, a little less for 5.

[Artos]

here are some $$$ figures to ponder


Rem 700 donor action ... $400

Bell & Carlson* stock ... $200 (i'd recommend other brands such as McMillan - cost $450)

pillar bed action to stock ...$200

SS match grade barrel ... $300 ; (fluting add another $150)

chamber, thread barrel to action ...$200

duracoat , ceracoat, or Birdsong black finish to barrel ... $60 for barrel , $160 for barreled action


a custom rifle can be built on a Rem 700 action for $1000 to $1700 + depending on options

[austinN4]

Badger bolt knob: About $30. Install was about $15.
Hey, M24, glad to see you are still around here. I see you over at WE but I don't post much there.

Here is another option based on the SPS the OP should take a look at unless he wants to do the project work himself: http://www.snipercentral.com/rementrypack.phtml

[a1fabweld]

The 1K club I shoot with, which has approx 50 guys, the shortest barrel you'll find is 24" minimum in .308. Yes it can be done with a 18" or 20", but you'll be limited to lighter bullets & loading them pretty hot. I opted to go with the longer barrel to have the choice of 175+ grain bullets. It really depends on how far you are going to shoot. If your range only goes to 300 yards, barrel length doesn't matter.

[ca_fireman19]

The 1K club I shoot with, which has approx 50 guys, the shortest barrel you'll find is 24" minimum in .308. Yes it can be done with a 18" or 20", but you'll be limited to lighter bullets & loading them pretty hot. I opted to go with the longer barrel to have the choice of 175+ grain bullets. It really depends on how far you are going to shoot. If your range only goes to 300 yards, barrel length doesn't matter.

I'd love to be able to make that 1000 yard shot...What do you think about the SPS Varminter as a base and throwing on a McMillan A3 stock + freefloat the barrel?

[a1fabweld]

The SPS Var is a good base rifle. I prefer the AICS stock vs. the McMillan, but whatever feels better to you. They're both solid. If you are going to run detachable mags, I think you'll spend less money with the AICS as it comes with the proper bottom metal for detachable mags. McMillan A3 runs $575 + bedding $100, + Badger or equivalent bottom metal $350. AICS is $850 ready to shoot out of the box. Plan on spending at least $1K on optics. Plan on reloading if you're going to be serious about long range shooting. At $2.00 per round for factory loaded match ammo, the reloading equipment pays for itself in no time. Plus you'll be able to tune your rounds for your rifle. I'm about $5k in my rifle & reloading equip not including brass, bullets, etc... But it sure is fun.

[maximus83]

Reviews of different rifles including the 700P, 700P LTR and 700 SPS tactical: http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm

I am looking to buy, not build, and the price difference I am finding between the 700P LTR and the 700 SPS Tactical is significant:
700P LTR = $919
700 SPS = $557

Looks like I am in for a SPS Tactical.

As you've probably figured out by now, there is no significant difference--if any--that I am aware of in the action or the barrel of the LTR model versus the SPS T. I'm fairly certain that the main difference between two is the stock. That accounts for most of the price difference (there's also a LITTLE bit of "tacti-cool" markup factor in the "police" name and the "light tactical rifle" model). The LTR is a good rifle, no question about that, but the point is, you shouldn't think that it's giving you more than the SPS T apart from just an improved stock. If you like the HS Precision stock on the LTR, then by all means, that's a good rifle to start with.

For myself, I wanted to be able to choose my own stock. I kind of like the Bell and Carlson "Light tactical" Medalist stock, it's the newer "A3" with the hook in the butt portion. I also like some of the Manners stocks, like their new T3. If you get that in a carbon fiber, it's expensive at around $500, but it really keeps the weight down to around 2 lbs.

[stifled]

After starting this thread, I did a little shopping. I found the "Remington 700 SPS Tactical". It looks almost like a cheaper reincarnation of the old Remington 700P (police sniper rifle). Does anyone have anything solid on this rifle? For $550 it seems too good to be true.

And thank you to Maximus83 for the input.

I have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. They are an excellent shooting rifle for the cost. Their largest drawback is the stock which isn't rigid enough. The barrel doesn't free float if you are holding the gun up by the front of the stock (like if you are using a bipod or holding it...), which wouldn't be so bad, except that the barrel touches the stock inconsistently so the accuracy suffers quite a bit from this. I'd suggest a McMillan or similar quality stock that will truly free float the barrel. This will add a pretty significant cost to the rifle, mainly because the guns are priced so well to begin with.

It's the only 'necessary' upgrade to the 700 SPS Tactical. I personally like the stock trigger quite a lot, though if I tried an expensive aftermarket trigger I'd likely change my mind as the pull is a tad on the heavy side.

But your idea is correct, the SPS Tactical is basically a 700P with a shortened barrel and a chintzy stock.

The LTR has a better stock than the SPS Tactical, and also has a good bit of fluting on the barrel to lighten it up.

My suggestion would be to get the SPS Tactical if you intend to replace the stock, or the LTR if you want to keep it stock.

[babarracing]

The number one recommendation I have is find the best current barrel maker in the caliber you choose I.E. 30, 6mm whatever. Not all Barrel makers are equal in all time frames. When I was shooting NBRSA in the mid 90's Dan Lilja and Gary Schnieder were two of the best 30 cal. barrel makers. Hart Rifles was one of the best 6MM barrel makers at that time. Find out what Barrelthe top five or 10 guys in the caliber your choosing are using. As far as a Rem 700 short action goes they have had only one flaw in the time period of which I speak and that was after extracting 5,000 Rds or so of neck sized only cases with bullets jammed into rifling the extractor would break. Ez to replace if you carry spares or a spare bolt like I did. Guys with the $$ used to replace the extractor with a Sako extractor. I used a BDL and regularly shot 0.420 to 0.430 5 shot groups at 100 yds and 1.2 inch 5 shot groups at 300 with a 6x Weaver 9old steel tube) T6 and a 1/4 MOA dot retical. Or a Premier Retical Leupold with a 1 MOA dot (100 yds only). That's not far and it certainly isn't great but is derived from actual personal experience. Oh one other thing that was with Ralph council's bullets or Guy Chism's in 30 Cal. Speedy Gonzalesmade some great bullets too if ya could get any.Find out what the same 5 or ten guys are using. Jackets are [B]everything[B] all else being equal.

[maximus83]

I personally like the stock trigger quite a lot, though if I tried an expensive aftermarket trigger I'd likely change my mind as the pull is a tad on the heavy side.


I agree. I tested the factory set trigger pull on the Xmark Pro adjustable that comes on my new SPS T, and it's about 3.5 lbs, supposedly adjustable down to 3 lbs. I'm surprised how clean the break is, with virtually no take-up, and 3.5 lbs distributed across the fairly broad trigger blade feels great and just about perfect. I probably won't mess with the trigger, for now.

[ca_fireman19]

Both the SPS Tactical and the SPS Varmint seem like outstanding starter rifles. But I just found the Savage 10FCP which comes with a fantastic fluted barrel with muzzle break, super buttery action, full free floating barrel/stock and a removable magazine. Only problem is it's almost 50% more than the SPS V...Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of this specific rifle? I'm told it is strictly an L.E.O. ONLY rifle.

[maximus83]

Both the SPS Tactical and the SPS Varmint seem like outstanding starter rifles. But I just found the Savage 10FCP which comes with a fantastic fluted barrel with muzzle break, super buttery action, full free floating barrel/stock and a removable magazine. Only problem is it's almost 50% more than the SPS V...Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of this specific rifle? I'm told it is strictly an L.E.O. ONLY rifle.

CA, I own a 10 FLP, which is essentially the same rifle as the 10 FCP with a cheaper stock.

The Savage is an outstanding rifle out of the box. And Savages are notable for being highly accurate out of the box. However in recent years, say the last 3 to 5, it appears to me that Remington has really worked hard to get their inexpensive 700 models (like the SPS T and the SPS V) to an out of box accuracy level that rivals the Savage, and I think they've succeeded.

I think you really can't go wrong either way. The Rem 700 action is more well known, and of course has that large aftermarket support for customizing.

Savage has certain advantages too:

* The Accu-trigger which is adjustable down to 1.5 lbs (Rem has nothing equivalent on factory rifles),

* Savage, due to the barrel nut, has the ability for you to easily change barrels at home (so you can try new calibers),

* Savage has a faster lock time (the Rem will require custom work to match the Savage lock time). I do not know this detail from first-hand experience (I'm not a gunsmith), I am repeating what my gunsmith, who works on both Remingtons and Savages and who customized my Savage, told me.

* Savage has the new Accustock on some models in the 10 FCP seris, like the 10 FCP-K. If you read up on this thing, which is available in a number of their new models (but not the 10 FCP, I believe), it basically eliminates the need to custom bed an action.

* Savage has a new robust detachable box mag in their rifles, which I think is better than the Rem factory DBM systems. Of course, aftermarket DBM's like Badger and Surgeon are better than any of the factory DBM's, so this may not mean that much. But if you want a fairly strong factory DBM, Savage has it available in many models of the 10 series.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Savage or a Rem. I've been happy with my Savage 10, but was ready to try a Rem and wanted to do some customization. So I preferred the much greater range of options that are available on the Remington action. BTW, the Savage 10 F-series rifles are NOT LEO-only, I am a civilian and had no trouble getting one. They are sold all over the place in retail stores. Here's a link to a 10 FCP you could get at Buds's if you wanted: Savage 10 FCP (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/43532), this is the one with the HS Precision stock. And here's the 10FCP-K (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/57408), which may be the one you were talking about. This one has the new Accustock plus the new muzzle brake.

[austinN4]

The Savage is an outstanding rifle out of the box. And Savages are notable for being highly accurate out of the box. However in recent years, say the last 3 to 5, it appears to me that Remington has really worked hard to get their inexpensive 700 models (like the SPS T and the SPS V) to an out of box accuracy level that rivals the Savage, and I think they've succeeded.
I notice that Savage uses a 1:10 twist while Remington uses 1:12 for 308. How big of a deal is this?

[Gutshot John]

I notice that Savage uses a 1:10 twist while Remington uses 1:12 for 308. How big of a deal is this?

Depends on the bullet you use. For ~168gr the difference is marginal except at very long ranges. If you were going to shoot long range with ~175gr exclusively I'd go with 10". 12" twists shoot heavy bullets just fine so it gives you a good amount of flexibility if you intend on shooting a lot of ~150 at a variety of ranges.

That said it also depends on the model of Remington you use. This SPS seems to have a 10" twist.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx

[babarracing]

:confused: If you are serious about the level of accuracy you want from your rifle 1/2 MOA) or better IMHO. Here's a practical example. !,000 yd. guys in the mid 90's used 1 in 13 inch twist barrels. This was with 155 Grs Boatail bullets. At the 2800 FPS or so velocity level that they were driven at this would just barely keep the bullet stable at 1000 yards. I say that because the target pullers behind the berms could sometimes hear the bullets making a modulating hissing sound as they went overhead. Indicative of the slight we'll call it wobble of the projectile like a wobbly pass vs a spiral. I started shooting out to 300 yds with a 1 in 13 twist then I learned a 1 in 14 would stabilize a 150 grs flat base bullet at that distance at the same velocity. I went with that while still others were experimenting with 1 in 15 twists at the same distance. So what I am saying and trying to substantiate is use the slowest twist possible. Bullets follow their center of form in the barrel, then their center of mass when they exit the barrel. It is for the same reason accuracy oriented hand made bullet makers insist on Jackets being within 0.0002 wall thickness uniformity. Walt Berger Himself told me that. Again all this presumes you will be happy with 1/2 MOA accuracy, if less is good enuff. Forget all my ramblings.:smile: (all this is based on 308 Winchester and the 308 Winchester by 47MM that I shot)

[The_Biased_Observer]

Savage gets my money.

Recently took a SPS down and while doing so literally snapped the MIM trigger shoe off with little force when the barreled action was set on a table. Upon closer inspection they've also made the sear safety cam out of MIM metal.

They way I look at it, ANY Remington rifle off the shelf will need a new stock and trigger before it approaches the quality of ANY Savage rifle (Edge rifles excluded), especially any with the Accutrigger and Accustock. A bonus is you can rebarrel with basic hand tools.

Aftermarket parts availability favor the Remington, with a little effort we can change that.

[AR15barrels]

I have always wanted a "custom" long range bolt action rifle and I figured why not build it?

What's a realistic budget?
That determines the best path.

The default path is to just buy a 308 Rem 700 SPS Varmint and find a take-off HS stock.
Shoot that for a year or so until you figure out what you really want.

If you are in southern california, check out the caprc shoots and you can get behind a wide variety of stocks and scopes to help make your decision.

www.caprc.com

There are also some real good threads there on choosing/building a rifle.