View Full Version : galil ACE in your face.
This is the best kalashnikov based rifle I've seen so far. Mikhail should be paying IWI royalties.
Left side charging handle, BIG unprotected mag release, thumb-side selector switch(pretty sure it's forward for FIRE, and back for SAFE, unlike the Golani's that are reversed.)
the only thing I'm weary of is that dust cover rail.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as111-e.htm
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/08/24/galil-ace-rifle/
ChicagoTex
09-03-10, 20:53
I wasn't aware of this variant, thanks for posting.
Me likey... a lot. Too bad we'll probably never see it here in the states.
I wasn't aware of this variant, thanks for posting.
Me likey... a lot. Too bad we'll probably never see it here in the states.
The more Obama sh**s on Israel, the less likely the Galil ACE will see US soil.
Moose-Knuckle
09-04-10, 15:45
I'm sure the rest of the rifle is GTG but those First Samco (aka Command Arms Accesories aka Maco) furniture has got to go! It didn't work for the Sig 556 and it is an epic fail for such a pedigree rifle as the Galil:bad:
I think it's intersting that IWI created the Tavor and now this next generation Galil too.
I hope those are the prototype rifles...
Eh.....no thanks.
I hope those are the prototype rifles...
What's wrong with the ACE? I thought this is what people wanted, an ergonomic AK?
Look at it...........look at it.......
http://www.israel-weapon.com/files/Galleries/Ace30/ace32wasach.jpg
A "fixed" AK is what it is. Not much else about it but this is what many AK after market products try to replicate.
Thanks for posting. I'd love to see the guts of one.
Hopefully not off topic, but how does the rear sight hold zero when it is mounted on the dust cover or am I off base?
Interesting, but I'd rather someone import the Tavor.
7.62x39 Galil = Easy Button.
DaBears_85
09-05-10, 04:57
It looks like an AR f***ed an AK
Burt Gummer
09-05-10, 08:11
Why does everything need a stupid M4 retractable stock these days? The original Galil had a perfectly good side-folder and now it has a stock designed for a buffer tube it doesn't use?
Sorry guys, call me old school, but I'd rather have the IMI original, just add some Picatinny rails and call it a day.
http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/galil/762/arm/308arm.gif
http://world.guns.ru/assault/galil-mar.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/images/9/9d/WayOfGun_Galil02.jpg
I really like the looks. It's something I'd buy depending on the price range.
NMBigfoot02
09-05-10, 10:31
Looks like a Krebs rifle.
Issues:
1. Requires a completely separate manual of arms than a standard AK.
2. Dust cover rail mount and zero shift.
While I'm all for improvements, the AK is fine for what it is. Many of these "improvements" could be implemented with current AK aftermarket parts.
Why does everything need a stupid M4 retractable stock these days?
Retractable stocks are becoming more and more common due to the increased use of body armor. When you add the thickness of armor to your shoulder, and then you train for CQC and building clearing you pivot your front towards the threat so that your chest plate is facing them. This can't be done with a full length stock unless you have the arm length of someone who is 6'5 plus. The technique works very well, but it requires a stock that can be shortened up to about half that of a full length stock.
This is why you are seeing other countries like Israel, Russia, Germany, and the UK starting to adopt retractable stocks as they integrate more and more body armor in the field. The general Russian military still uses a lot of folding stocks, but that's because they cannot afford to equip the majority of their forces with armor......just special operations. HK416s are finding their way in the hands of German spec ops.
It's a perfect example of the Israelis almost getting it, but just not quite.
The stock should both fold AND be adjustable for LOP.
The left side charging handle.....honestly people make such a huge deal about this and it really shouldn't be.....the right side charging handle works fine.
The original Galil charging handle was modified from the AK so that it sits straight up. The training manual specifies that you use your left hand to come over the dustcover/receiver to charge the weapon. This worked great in an era when optics were a rarity, not so much anymore.
I've owned 4 IMI Galils, two Model 386's (5.56mm, 16", 1/7" twist AR), and two Model 329's (7.62 NATO, 18" barrel AR).
I never had an issue with the irons being on the dustcover, both the Finns (Valmet M62, M76) and the Israelis stiffened and anchored the dustcovers of their rifles very well. Mounting an optic on there, I'd be very suspicious of it holding zero.
As Burt said, mount some Picatinny M1913 on the handguards for a white light, and an Ultimak gas tube for an Aimpoint T-1, and you're golden.
This was the last Galil I had.....one of the Model 386's. I sold it about ten years ago. Wish I had another one.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/MyGalil386.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/MyGalil386left.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/IDF/MyGalil386leftclose.jpg
The Estonians went to Iraq carrying Galils with Aimpoints mounted on IDF side mounts, which put the optic way high.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/ETroops1-1.jpg
The left side charging handle.....honestly people make such a huge deal about this and it really shouldn't be.....the right side charging handle works fine.
It's all about leverage.
This guy does it the right way by canting and cradling the rifle close to 90 degrees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZfNdD2JZwg
Keeping the weapon straight limits your support arm leverage as you reach under and charging the action.
Problem is, some people don't like to cradle their rifle as seen in the video but would rather put the butt stock firmly under the arm pit for control (especially while running and doing reloads/malf drills).
"butt stock in arm pit" weapon control + optic on top of receiver = you need left side CH.
The more Obama sh**s on Israel, the less likely the Galil ACE will see US soil.
Would never happen even if they made a semi thanks to the Bushtard Importation Ban of 89.
Jay Cunningham
09-05-10, 14:29
The stock should both fold AND be adjustable for LOP.
The left side charging handle.....honestly people make such a huge deal about this and it really shouldn't be.....the right side charging handle works fine.
The original Galil charging handle was modified from the AK so that it sits straight up. The training manual specifies that you use your left hand to come over the dustcover/receiver to charge the weapon. This worked great in an era when optics were a rarity, not so much anymore.
I've owned 4 IMI Galils, two Model 386's (5.56mm, 16", 1/7" twist AR), and two Model 329's (7.62 NATO, 18" barrel AR).
I never had an issue with the irons being on the dustcover, both the Finns (Valmet M62, M76) and the Israelis stiffened and anchored the dustcovers of their rifles very well. Mounting an optic on there, I'd be very suspicious of it holding zero.
As Burt said, mount some Picatinny M1913 on the handguards for a white light, and an Ultimak gas tube for an Aimpoint T-1, and you're golden.
I think you just described a SCAR-L, dude.
dwhitehorne
09-05-10, 15:56
What's wrong with the ACE? I thought this is what people wanted, an ergonomic AK?
Look at it...........look at it.......
http://www.israel-weapon.com/files/Galleries/Ace30/ace32wasach.jpg
A "fixed" AK is what it is. Not much else about it but this is what many AK after market products try to replicate.
Maybe, but it looks like something Command Arms got a hold of. David
It's all about leverage.
This guy does it the right way by canting and cradling the rifle close to 90 degrees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZfNdD2JZwg
Keeping the weapon straight limits your support arm leverage as you reach under and charging the action.
Problem is, some people don't like to cradle their rifle as seen in the video but would rather put the butt stock firmly under the arm pit for control (especially while running and doing reloads/malf drills).
"butt stock in arm pit" weapon control + optic on top of receiver = you need left side CH.
Um, yeah. Thanks for the that. I know how to load an AK now....
Ok, setting aside the smart assedness a little bit.....I personally cant the weapon to the left a bit to get at the charging handle. For me, this has always proven to be the easiest and most fumble free technique.
I own and have had plenty of trigger and training time on weapons with left hand charging handles as well.
Again, I think people make way too much of an issue out of it.
I personally cant the weapon to the left a bit to get at the charging handle
I do that too, but some people have optics on top of the receiver. You gotta chicken wing or reach under.
Again, I think people make way too much of an issue out of it.
I don't know who started it first, the youtube bedroom reloaders, or the after market constantly pushing products that will supposidly allow you to raid and clear a whole building by yourself.
I mean seriously is a B.A.D. lever needed on an AR15?
All I know is, manufacturers/engineers know the majority of shooters are right handed. They also know support hand manipulations are the norm. When M/E's understand this, weapons like the Galil ACE, ACR, XCR, etc, come out.
The ACE guns look cool to me. As for the ergos, I like the original Galil handle mixed with the Ultimak. For me, it's the best of both worlds. I just built this hybrid, and the original gas tube is still on mostly for measurement purposes. An Ultimak awaits this one. My vision for a perfect AK is heavily influenced by the Galil, obviously. I could care less about tradition when it comes to weapons. Never internalized any nostalgia, and don't plan on starting now.
CA-legal. Mag lock, pinned folding stock, etc. Just got the main part of the build finished, gotta rivet in the top cover peep sight, then it needs a good blasting and some Cerakote. Almost there.....
http://a.imageshack.us/img687/3204/dsc08709v.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img707/3332/dsc08710f.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img203/8654/dsc08712q.jpg
bondmid003
09-05-10, 20:51
AUG is right if IWI wants to sell this rifle here they will have to start manufacturing them in the US a la what Steyr is doing right now. I'm curious as so how Arsenal gets around the same restrictions when they bring the Saiga's to the US.
ChicagoTex
09-05-10, 21:21
I'm curious as so how Arsenal gets around the same restrictions when they bring the Saiga's to the US.
They come as the 10rd sporter import-legal Saiga and then get converted in accordance to 922r stateside, then they're resold.
[QUOTE=kal;750186]What's wrong with the ACE? I thought this is http://www.israel-weapon.com/files/Galleries/Ace30/ace32wasach.jpg
QUOTE]
I think that thing would be pure sex if had an Ace side folder, or a Galil stock like it was patterened after, like I run on my AK instead of an M4 type stock.
Jay
4thPointOfContact
09-15-10, 11:14
Correct me if I'm wrong, but... on the video of Mr Speedloader, is that a TAPCO 'Galil' forearm? You know, the one with nothing between the firing hand and the barrel except a bit of plastic?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but... on the video of Mr Speedloader, is that a TAPCO 'Galil' forearm? You know, the one with nothing between the firing hand and the barrel except a bit of plastic?
Yup.
Real Galil handguards have an extremely effective heat shield, and give a lot of room around the barrel to allow the heat to not be transferred directly to the shooter.
buddyhoohaw
09-15-10, 14:50
http://www.israel-weapon.com/files/Galleries/Ace30/ace32wasach.jpg
You know it's a bad idea when even the micro version looks funky. I do like that it appears to be in 7.62 x 39.
Cheers
If it ain't the 7.62x39mm galil ace, then there should be a modern rifle made to take AK mags.
I think I'll die of old age first.
If it ain't the 7.62x39mm galil ace, then there should be a modern rifle made to take AK mags.
I think I'll die of old age first.
Wasn't that supposed to be one of the great features of the Massada before Magpul went and Bushmaster'd it up?
Jay
If it ain't the 7.62x39mm galil ace, then there should be a modern rifle made to take AK mags.
I think I'll die of old age first.
The closest you'll come to that is the KAC SR-47, which is a dead end project.
I honestly don't ever see another weapon system developed that will take a magazine that requires two locking points.
Everyone wants to just jam a mag up in the receiver like the M16 FOW. Up until the AR system came out, everything rocked in, although the StG-44 and the Vorgrimmler systems that came later didn't require much rocking to get the mag to seat.
Wasn't that supposed to be one of the great features of the Massada before Magpul went and Bushmaster'd it up?
true. The problem is, manufacturers don't want to create different lower receivers. Just one lower that can take stanag 4179 mags.
But something like c-product 7.62x39mm stanag mags are not 100%.
Hopefully not off topic, but how does the rear sight hold zero when it is mounted on the dust cover or am I off base?
its hinged like a krink is, and it locks in the rear now instead of the op rod holding it.
there is a thumb saftey on it but its really crappy and gay. it looks as though they have tried to fix some of the ak's shortcomming.
although the StG-44 and the Vorgrimmler systems that came later didn't require much rocking to get the mag to seat.
stg44 and cetme/hk rifles mag insertion was the same as the m16 from what I understand. Straight up, straight down, locking from one side, and having a button release.
I especially like the vorgrimmlers because the mag well was designed to allow for a "pseudo rock in" but it was pulled straight out like an m16.
This russian rifle (9a-91/vsk-94) was also the only other design in the world that I know of that used the same approach as the cetme's and hk's.
http://www.gun-world.net/russain/sp9mm/9a91/2471117.jpg
no front locking lug. mag locks from rear. There's a youtube video somewhere showing this.
http://www.gun-world.net/russain/sp9mm/vsk94/vsk94012.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%204%20Resized/Sturmgewehr%20Resized/236faf79-2.jpg
i know you have first hand experience with the STG44.
You said the STG44 has a sort of a rock-n-lock system.
But it doesn't add up.
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/German-WWII_Rifles/StG44_3.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5646/stg4dl3.jpg
BTW, it's interesting to see that the first assault rifle in the world utilized a thumb operated selector switch, left side charging handle, and a m16 style magazine system with a button release. It was truly built for modern manual of arms in mind, back in WW2. It took until the SCAR/ACR/XCR to get it right again.:lol:
Man, that poor magazine.....
Here's one that Vickers has. You're right as far as it not having to rock in to lock, but the roller locking weapon systems that came after it do.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%204%20Resized/Sturmgewehr%20Resized/ad608b4c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class3/Video/th_MOV00105.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class3/Video/?action=view¤t=MOV00105.mp4)
Actually, the roller locked HK family are not rock and lock either. Interestingly, magazines can be inserted straight into the M14 as well since both locking points snap into the magazine under spring pressure.
true. The problem is, manufacturers don't want to create different lower receivers. Just one lower that can take stanag 4179 mags.
But something like c-product 7.62x39mm stanag mags are not 100%.
Maybe I'm over simplifying this... Couldn't the problem be solved by figuring out how many 7.62x39 rounds (I'm guessing somewhere between 20 & 25) could be loaded in an AR style mag without the mag being curved to the point where it effected reliablility?
Jay
Actually, the roller locked HK family are not rock and lock either.
true. it's like the stg44 and m16
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Heckler_Koch/HK_MAG7.62_20rdSteel.jpg
but the mag well allows for a "rock in" since it's angled.
Interestingly, magazines can be inserted straight into the M14 as well since both locking points snap into the magazine under spring pressure.
But can they be pulled straight out(like hk91/93) or do they have to be rocked outward like an AK mag?
I wonder, if I dremeled the front locking lug off of an AK mag, would it still lock in and stay in place?
Sounds like I might have something to do.:D
I'd like it without all that Izzy plastic all over it.
I don't like the add-on aftermarket gee-whizz left side charging handles out there. That said, I see no reason to not put the charging handle on the left side of a re-design (or better yet, make it ambi or switchable).
ETA: It could sure stand to have a longer handguard too. I see no need for the shorty-length handguard on rifle with an 18" barrel.
.
But can they be pulled straight out(like hk91/93) or do they have to be rocked outward like an AK mag?
No, they have to be pulled/rocked out like an AK, but the mag release puts your hand there anyway. If I muster the index finger strength and push the mag release while maintaining a firing grip, mags drop right out of my AK. Some mags (steel) drop free my HKs, some don't. Never really tried to see if mags drop out of the M1A due to the mag release location.
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