View Full Version : 308 short barrel rifle - how short and which one?
I am considering the purchase of a 308 SBR. I initially was intrigued by the DS ARMS FAL clone. Lately, I have been looking at Noveske's Leonidas Rifle.
Does anyone have a good ballistics chart for a standard 308 load with different barrel lengths?
How short can I go and still be effective at 300 yards with reasonable power on target and something other then a trajectory that lobs them in like an M203 shooting 40mm chalk rounds. :cool:
The think that attracts me to the FAL is the folding stock. And, I like FALs too! ;)
However, Noveske sure knows what he's doing with the AR-10 clones. He offers two different base platforms but, why? Is it just a magazine issue? Am I missing some other good 308 SBR option? I'll define part of "good" as being available today so HK-417's don't count.
Contrary to what DSA says and does you ideally need at least 4" in front of the FAL gas port. You can go less but function suffers (bent pistons when over gassed).
If I were to buy a short FAL gas system rifle I'd get the 16" version and have it cut to 13.5" and adjust the gas port accordingly.
A 13.5" .308 will still hit to 300 but I'd feel more comfortable with 16"+.
Consider that the FN SCAR has a 13 inch barrel. The HK 417 has a 12 inch barrel. The G3K has a 12.5 inch barrel. Going from all this, I would go with at least a 12 inch barrel. I would suggest an AAC SCAR-H silencer and this barrel print will help with compatibility:
http://www.silencertalk.com/threading/AAC_THREAD_GUIDE_4OF5.pdf
I'll define part of "good" as being available today so HK-417's don't count.
Consider that the FN SCAR has a 13 inch barrel. The HK 417 has a 12 inch barrel. The G3K has a 12.5 inch barrel. Going from all this, I would go with at least a 12 inch barrel. I would suggest an AAC SCAR-H silencer and this barrel print will help with compatibility:
http://www.silencertalk.com/threading/AAC_THREAD_GUIDE_4OF5.pdf
Reading is fundamental.
Yes, RIF. I suggested he consider that the 417 has a 12 inch barrel and others have 12.5 and 13 inch barrels, so he should consider 12.0 inches a good min barrel length. I did not suggest he buy a 417, as they are not available.
Yes, RIF. I suggested he consider that the 417 has a 12 inch barrel and others have 12.5 and 13 inch barrels, so he should consider 12.0 inches a good min barrel length. I did not suggest he buy a 417, as they are not available.
Every rifle to cited has a completely different gas system, and thus barrel requirement from what was asked. You then went on to mention AAC thread specs for the suppressor you tried to pimp unsolicited.
Do you have anything relevant to add or are you going to just parrot some more specs for restricted and unobtainable rifles? Do you have any experience with AR10 and FAL short barrels or gas systems like was asked? How about useful ballistics data?
Something useful, Robert, not just lame numbers anyone can read off a spec sheet.
It is very useful to list the barrel lengths of the three premiere short barrel 7.62mm rifles. Suppressor compatibility is just something to think about when picking a short barrel length so I offered a barrel drawing.
Reading is fundamental.
What part of Reading is fundamental am I missing? :rolleyes:
I asked the question because I didn't have the answer. I have heard good and bad things about the DS ARM SBR FAL. I don't fancy a SBR HK-91. Noveske offers the AR-10 in two different lowers and two different barrel lengths. Is there a thread on this site or elsewhere I missed?
The side folding stock of a FAL variant is nice but, I've heard and read they are hard to suppress. I think I can suppress an AR-10 easier.
I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction of enlightenment. Is my search function just flawed? :confused:
You then went on to mention AAC thread specs for the suppressor you tried to pimp unsolicited.
I have an AAC SCAR-H on order so, he it the mark there. Of course, you really had no way of knowing that.
Contrary to what DSA says and does you ideally need at least 4" in front of the FAL gas port. You can go less but function suffers (bent pistons when over gassed).
If I were to buy a short FAL gas system rifle I'd get the 16" version and have it cut to 13.5" and adjust the gas port accordingly.
A 13.5" .308 will still hit to 300 but I'd feel more comfortable with 16"+.
Thanks! That really answers my question. It seems like the sweet spot for a FAL is right between the two Noveske options I see in the AR-10. Maybe I'm better off just sticking to a 16" FAL folder since I'm not a professional door kicker. The length of a suppressor does negate some of the benefit of a "long" SBR. At least the SCAR-H is QD so transport is easy and compact.
A Noveske AR-10 still has my interest tweaked but, I don't really require a rifle that can shoot battlefield scrounged linked .308.
I was suggesting that if the 417 had a 12.0 inch barrel, they probably put some thought into it and/or are just doing what military customers want -- so you may want to do the same. But then I realized that it would be too short for your SCAR-SD suppressor mount (unless you threaded it to match the HK-417, in which case you could use the AAC mount for that), so I am thinking 12.5 or longer would be best -- but gave the barrel print so you could check for yourself. It was all I had to offer. No ballistics data handy.
I agree that 16 inches is a good way to go and already on the short side for .308. However, in order to get a SCAR-H on that, you will need to get a medium barrel and get it custom profiled. It can be done and you can give DSA the print I linked to. I wanted to do it myself. I was going to do it as an 18 or 18.5 inch and make it more of a reliable semi-precision rifle and not as a CQB setup.
i have an 11" DSA FAL and i really enjoy it. if i do my part, 300 yd. hits are not much of a problem w/o a ton of holdover [i use an aimpoint on mine]. don't know how "hard" it hits, but i know i wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.;)
as far as functionality, i have not really had a problem w/ mine [other than the odd bad mag]. once i adjusted the gas system as per the manual, i am good to go. i will say, though, i have probably only put 500-600 rds. through mine [it's a recent acquisition], so i can't really attest to any bent pistons or what have you.
frankly, i really enjoy shooting it. it's a very managable and accurate SBR. i was initially worried about recoil, but it's such a tubby bastard [coupled with the FAL system] that the recoil is not really an issue. frankly, my milled 7.62x39 AK is no fun to shoot. i could shoot this thing all day and not sweat it.
that being said, the noveske is sweet, too. good luck.
themadhatter
07-31-07, 04:58
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/themadhatter-1/MVC-494S.jpg
I really like the look of that Noveske too (meaning the look of the specs, not the appearance of the rifle, although that ain't bad either) but damn is it expensive.
Armalite AR-10 $3357! plus the $200 and transfer fees, and THEN you add in the optics, which in the case of the S&B shown is another $2k.
At that price I'd want to have a real need, not just a "want". Obviously everyone's perception of money is different, so if $6k+ for a rifle doesn't bother you, have at it! Of course, I want to shoot it if you get one!:D
I really like the look of that Noveske too ....
Psst...he is now selling the Leonidas 14.5" barrels with a pinned on 17-4 lo-pro gasblock. $475.
It's on my short list, for sure. :D
Jay Cunningham
07-31-07, 12:08
http://www.dsarms.com/images/SA58CP.gif
:D
olds442tyguy
08-01-07, 14:35
I'm not a big fan of either rifle, but if I wanted a reliable sub 16" 308, I'd probably go with a FAL or an HK51/G3K/whatever.
I'm not sure how far along the POF 308's are, but I'd be interested to hear if they're going to be offering a 308 SBR anytime soon.
It's too bad the 308 Masada and SCAR-H's won't be on the civilian market for quite awhile (if ever).
Have a v-51 sbr that vector set up-10"bbl instead of shorty(9") to better mt. a can-not moa accurate, but a hoot to shoot and still good on plates and man sized targets at 300yds. Although I wonder how many of will ever shoot at people at that distance-not me any more, not even in 70/71.-Beemer
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