View Full Version : Official Spikes Thread - (IMPORTANT UPDATE -- pg. 3)
Okay, since the OTHER (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54922) thread ended up in the shitter I'm going to open a new one for those members that want to share information or ask questions about Spikes Tactical.
I would suggest you guys keep this thread technical and about your individual carbines (meaning first hand experience) or use it to ask any questions you might have, like if you're considering buying one and want some answers to questions you might have.
If you want to take pot shots at other manufactures, other members or Grant this thread and this forum are not for you. If you want to compare your Spikes to BCM, COLT, LMT, LWRC, FN or baby Jesus you better be prepared to back it up with facts not internet marketing blabber.
I said it in the other thread (you either ignored it because it wasn't what you wanted to hear or you were too concerned with what was said on ar15.com) but I'll say one final time: I have no problem with Spikes, their carbines or components. I do have a problem with 20+ cheerleading posts. This is a technical forum so I recommend you discuss the technical aspects and stay away from the bullshit.
Ok, I'll kick it off with a question about Spikes Tactical Piston Upper.. Spikes is in my back yard (so to speak) and it would be nice and handy to just drive over there and pick one up if it is worth it.
I have a lower just sitting around and want to put together a piston upper. Anyone have experience with the Spikes piston upper they would like to share....
outrider627
09-09-10, 17:00
I've had a Spikes Midlength LE carbine since they first came out back in late April. I've only shot 200 rounds, but no problems so far. I used 30+ year old PMC 5.56 20 round packs, some equally old loose FHM 5.56, and a box of new Hornady 55gr FMJ/BT.
Once I get some homework done with, I'll post pictures of the targets from both range trips.
I apoligize if the answer has been posted elsewhere, but I wanted to ask if Rob's magazine artilce in Black Guns regarding his review of the Spikes AR has been issued yet?
For some reason I cant get this gun out of my head since I shot one. My local shop has a few of them.
I am in NJ and 9mm AR's just dont seem to popular so everyone I know is telling me not to get it because its a novelty and it will wear off. The keep saying you have a regular .223 AR why would you get a 9mm one.
Can I get some opinions from those of you that have them.
Here is a pic of the one I am looking at except it is all black no green
http://www.tnjconsulting.net/sp.jpg
wolf_walker
09-13-10, 22:45
I saw a vid the other day of that FA 9mm AR. I don't think I've seen many finer looking ways to burn up ammo.
I'm patiently waiting for my very first upper to show up, humble 16" middy from AIM. I don't think I've ever owned a long-gun that wasn't 50 years old and a veteran a time or two over.
justin_247
09-14-10, 01:52
Ok, I'll kick it off with a question about Spikes Tactical Piston Upper.. Spikes is in my back yard (so to speak) and it would be nice and handy to just drive over there and pick one up if it is worth it.
I have a lower just sitting around and want to put together a piston upper. Anyone have experience with the Spikes piston upper they would like to share....
My understanding is that the Spike's piston upper is just an Adams Arms upper with Spike's branding. With that in mind, it would probably be best to simply search for threads about Adams Arms.
There are only a few gas piston retrofits that I hear good things about on this forum (HK416, Addax GPU, PWS)... I haven't read anything particularly bad about the AA setup.
My understanding is that the Spike's piston upper is just an Adams Arms upper with Spike's branding. With that in mind, it would probably be best to simply search for threads about Adams Arms.
There are only a few gas piston retrofits that I hear good things about on this forum (HK416, Addax GPU, PWS)... I haven't read anything particularly bad about the AA setup.
Bingo, the Spike's Tactical Piston upper is simply an Adam's Arms piston kit with the Spike's logo on it and a selectable gas system. If memory serves me correctly, the Spike's piston upper has an adjustable gas system like the Ruger SR556 and they also have the standard Adam's Arms piston conversion.
For some reason I cant get this gun out of my head since I shot one. My local shop has a few of them.
I am in NJ and 9mm AR's just dont seem to popular so everyone I know is telling me not to get it because its a novelty and it will wear off. The keep saying you have a regular .223 AR why would you get a 9mm one.
Can I get some opinions from those of you that have them.
Here is a pic of the one I am looking at except it is all black no green
http://www.tnjconsulting.net/sp.jpg
My first AR was a 9mm. I bought it because at the time, I was shooting 9mm handgun a lot at an indoor range that didn't allow rifle calibers. I was interested in an AR, I didn't belong to a private club with a range at the time, and the nearest public outdoor range wasn't conveniently located. So, an AR chambered in 9mm seemed to fit the bill.
I used it quite a bit for a year or so - and then I got into a private gun club. When I got into the club, I got into 5.56 ARs and trap. I have maybe had the 9mm AR out twice, and I don't believe it has made it out of the safe in the last year.
9mm ARs are fun, and if you're in a situation where you can use it a lot, they can make sense. But as a 'range toy,' they are somewhat expensive, I think. 9mm ammo isn't nearly as cheap now as it was when I was shooting it a lot. If I were looking for an alternative to a 5.56 AR now, I'd probably look at a dedicated .22 upper (like Spike's offers).
All that said, my 9mm AR is never far from my thoughts. Lately I've been thinking about going the SBR route with it. We shall see.
Ok, I'll kick it off with a question about Spikes Tactical Piston Upper.. Spikes is in my back yard (so to speak) and it would be nice and handy to just drive over there and pick one up if it is worth it.
I have a lower just sitting around and want to put together a piston upper. Anyone have experience with the Spikes piston upper they would like to share....
I don't think they're making those any more.
I am in NJ and 9mm AR's just dont seem to popular so everyone I know is telling me not to get it because its a novelty and it will wear off. The keep saying you have a regular .223 AR why would you get a 9mm one.
The reason to not get the 9mm is:
1. The .223 is much more powerful than the 9mm, yet the rifles are the same size and they weigh the same.
2. You can shoot the .223 to 600 yards (or at least 300, depending on your own capability and optic), but the 9mm is stretching it at 100 yards.
3. Almost every cop car and national guardsman has 223 ammo which they might decide to share with you. 9mm ammo is not quite as popular.
But 9mm ammo costs less.
I have had no problems with my Spike's AR....223
I built it myself, from parts off their site and it turned out pretty nice!
Their customer service was great too! I waited 10weeks for the 12" BAR system, but they told me it was gonna take that long when I bought it so I expected that.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=290&pictureid=1387
Remember. This is a technical thread and we should be posting and asking technical/ operational stuff not posting pics. That can be done in the AR picture thread area.
I have had no problems with my Spike's AR....223
I built it myself, from parts off their site and it turned out pretty nice!
Their customer service was great too! I waited 10weeks for the 12" BAR system, but they told me it was gonna take that long when I bought it so I expected that.
Round count? Conditions?
Inquiring minds want to know...
The_Hammer_Man
09-16-10, 20:18
Ok, I'll kick it off with a question about Spikes Tactical Piston Upper.. Spikes is in my back yard (so to speak) and it would be nice and handy to just drive over there and pick one up if it is worth it.
I have a lower just sitting around and want to put together a piston upper. Anyone have experience with the Spikes piston upper they would like to share....
I have not one .. but two of these uppers. One is setup with MOE furniture and now lives in my buddy's squad car. (Gave it to him for his B-Day.) The other one is my "truck gun". It lives in a lockable "vault" in the back of my Explorer.
Round count.. I dunno.. but I'm on my 5th or 6th thousand of TAP practice ammo through it. (75gr TAP Practice)
No hiccups, no FTE's, no FTF's to date.
Beings that it's AA's barrel and piston setup .. it's a 1:8 barrel so you can feed it pretty much anything and it'll go bang. However, the one I have, is partial to 75gr. ammo. YMMV.
i just ordered a spikes strippped lower for $80 fro AIM surpluss (shipped) is this a good deal? this will be my first actual build so i'm still shopping for the rest. but just checking to see if i got a good deal on the lower?
edit; i'm also looking for suggestions for a trigger group
I paid $125 4 years ago and SBR'd it...and thought I got a good deal.
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z302/mpardun/MP_SBR_LT.jpg
Trigger depends on you intended use/mission.
Here is my $.02 (in this order):
1) Geiselle DMR/National Match/High Speed: $270 (HS in this SBR and i LOVE it!
2) Wilson Combat TRU:$270 (I like mine and hear a price reduction/special is coming - suspect low $200's)
3) Geissele SSA: $170 (IMHO, best trigger under $200)
**I initially used a Timney skelatonized 3lb. group and had issues...I do not care for Tinmey
Get a good LPK to complete your build (in order):
1) Colt or G&R
2) Daniel Defense or LMT
3) CMT/Stag
...say no to DPMS, RRA, Armalite
BlueOvalFan
09-17-10, 17:00
I'd say it's a fair deal.
Me and a few friends just brought 10 lowers (aero precision) in a group deal for $59 each--now that's a good deal!
I noticed that the testing documents are online. Sorry if this has been posted already, but here is a link if anyone wants to read about it:
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/09/03/spikes-tactical-publishes-certification-documents/
justin_247
09-18-10, 07:46
I noticed that the testing documents are online. Sorry if this has been posted already, but here is a link if anyone wants to read about it:
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/09/03/spikes-tactical-publishes-certification-documents/
Addressed in the other thread. Posting this here risks the potential for another flame war to begin.
I just boought a Mega for $99 and thought that was a good deal.
ForTehNguyen
09-18-10, 08:22
i just ordered a spikes strippped lower for $80 fro AIM surpluss (shipped) is this a good deal? this will be my first actual build so i'm still shopping for the rest. but just checking to see if i got a good deal on the lower?
edit; i'm also looking for suggestions for a trigger group
palmetto lower build kit, very well priced and includes a Daniel Defense LPK
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/lower-build-kits.php
A Sikes lower receiver for $80 seems like a pretty good deal. Where does Spikes rank among the AR manufaturers, i.e. Colt, BCM etc?
maddawg5777
09-19-10, 18:18
Hey guys looking at buying a spikes mid length when i get back to the states. Im an iron sights kinda guy( i like my acog on my .mil gun but i love the irons) just wondering if the samson BUIS they offer as a 10 dollar upgrade is worth it or should i stick with the A2 carry handle for now. Thanks for any help.
MistoGators
09-20-10, 10:52
A Sikes lower receiver for $80 seems like a pretty good deal. Where does Spikes rank among the AR manufaturers, i.e. Colt, BCM etc?
They're on the same level as both.
Spike's - cheaper
BCM - many more options
Colt - name and re-sell value
I'd go with a Spike's or BCM since they both offer lifetime warranties.
palmetto lower build kit, very well priced and includes a Daniel Defense LPK
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/lower-build-kits.php
thanks for that, i just might buy one of those...
They're on the same level as both.
Spike's - cheaper
BCM - many more options
Colt - name and re-sell value
I'd go with a Spike's or BCM since they both offer lifetime warranties.
what do you mean by many more options with BCM?
what do you mean by many more options with BCM?
As far as I know, Spike's doesn't offer a lightweight 16" middy, much less a lightweight 14.5" middy.
Stuff like that.
justin_247
09-26-10, 06:55
what do you mean by many more options with BCM?
BCM has hundreds of upper receiver assembly configurations, while Spike's has only about a dozen configurations.
They're on the same level as both. [snip]
is this your opinion or is it the general concencus now ?
I sure missed the info stating this as fact.
I wouldn't touch one of these "spikes" threads with a 10 foot pole!!
SWATcop556
09-26-10, 09:49
They're on the same level as both.
If you mean their lowers are on the same level then I might give you that one. As long as a lower is in spec then pick the rollmark you like and carry on. Just get a quality LPK.
If you are refering to the rifles as a whole then you are misinformed. Spikes rifles as a whole are not on the same level as the BCM or Colt rifles referenced earlier.
SWATcop556
09-26-10, 09:49
I wouldn't touch one of these "spikes" threads with a 10 foot pole!!
You just did! ;)
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 11:04
If you are referring to the rifles as a whole then you are misinformed. Spikes rifles as a whole are not on the same level as the BCM or Colt rifles referenced earlier.
What are they lacking, specifically?
SWATcop556
09-26-10, 12:46
What are they lacking, specifically?
The search function is your friend. It has been extensively cover in many threads. Incorrect chambers, no HP/MPI BCGs or barrels , poor staking on the carrier keys, and so on and so on. DPMS, Oly, BM, RR, Spikes are all pretty much cut from the same cloth. Pretty to look at with colorful rollmarks and such but not up to the chore of serious use and abuse but perfectly adequate for range/fun/killing beer cans.
The search function is your friend. It has been extensively cover in many threads. Incorrect chambers, no HP/MPI BCGs or barrels , poor staking on the carrier keys, and so on and so on. DPMS, Oly, BM, RR, Spikes are all pretty much cut from the same cloth. Pretty to look at with colorful rollmarks and such but not up to the chore of serious use and abuse but perfectly adequate for range/fun/killing beer cans.
The Spike's upper I just received has a 5.56 chamber according to my Michiguns gauge, HPT/MPI barrel and bolt, and proper staking. Is there any more misinformation you wish to spread?
If you mean their lowers are on the same level then I might give you that one. As long as a lower is in spec then pick the rollmark you like and carry on. Just get a quality LPK.
If you are refering to the rifles as a whole then you are misinformed. Spikes rifles as a whole are not on the same level as the BCM or Colt rifles referenced earlier.
I think the criteria at this site is you make a statement, you back it up.
can you explain how the rifles as a whole are not on the same level? unless it has been shown that the documents Spike posted showing his certs are somehow fake, then it appears at least on that level they are certainly on the same level.
do you have info otherwise?
outrider627
09-26-10, 14:36
The search function is your friend. It has been extensively cover in many threads. Incorrect chambers, no HP/MPI BCGs or barrels , poor staking on the carrier keys, and so on and so on. DPMS, Oly, BM, RR, Spikes are all pretty much cut from the same cloth. Pretty to look at with colorful rollmarks and such but not up to the chore of serious use and abuse but perfectly adequate for range/fun/killing beer cans.
You are completely wrong. Did you stick your fingers in your ears and scream "lalalalalala" when Spikes posted their cert documents? Go read the last few posts in the original big Spikes thread. And if you can't find it, the search function is your friend.
any thoughts on the Spikes chrome bolt/carrier over the Youngs NM chrome bolt/carrier?
https://www.aimsurplus.com/EOS/images/product/xstcbcg.jpg
https://www.aimsurplus.com/EOS/images/product/xstcbcg1.jpg
Robb Jensen
09-26-10, 15:24
any thoughts on the Spikes chrome bolt/carrier over the Youngs NM chrome bolt/carrier?
Technical thoughts?
Chrome stopped being mil-spec for BCGs with the M16A1.
Technical thoughts?
Chrome stopped being mil-spec for BCGs with the M16A1.
It's for a DMR type rig. I thought I'd go well with the BCM SS410 barrel.
It's for a DMR type rig. I thought I'd go well with the BCM SS410 barrel.
If you're going with a BCM barrel, then I would go with their Ionbond BCG.
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 16:29
The Spike's upper I just received has a 5.56 chamber according to my Michiguns gauge, HPT/MPI barrel and bolt, and proper staking. Is there any more misinformation you wish to spread?
This is what I just received last week also, in a 16" middy for $480 to my door btw. I narrowed down my choice of uppers to BCM and Spikes after reading for over a month on the three or four forums that discuss such things and every independent review I could find, since I'm not new to firearms but am new to AR patterns. I might have chosen differently if my life was on the line with this weapon on a daily basis (or I might not have), and I could afford either one in my budget, but I just did not see the benefit of the BCM's price premium for a 16" gov barrel mid-length. I can't speak for other configurations as I haven't done the homework. I service and sell Porsche and Maserati parts for a living and have fifteen years of doing so with all the other European automobiles, I know quality and value when I see it in any machine, and Spikes is such, in the case of my upper. However I don't know everything, about anything, so I'm still keeping an ear out as to why this "cheap" upper is lesser than such from BCM or the like, which is why I asked, not to start trouble. I'll continue to keep an open mind and ear/eye, but unless it blows up in my face I don't see regretting my purchase from anything I've read or been told or shown in the last month or two that I've been looking.
I'd also like to thank all of you for tossing this information about freely, it's well received for us more isolated shooters, and that don't have the budget to experiment a lot.
justin_247
09-26-10, 17:14
This is what I just received last week also, in a 16" middy for $480 to my door btw. I narrowed down my choice of uppers to BCM and Spikes after reading for over a month on the three or four forums that discuss such things and every independent review I could find, since I'm not new to firearms but am new to AR patterns. I might have chosen differently if my life was on the line with this weapon on a daily basis (or I might not have), and I could afford either one in my budget, but I just did not see the benefit of the BCM's price premium for a 16" gov barrel mid-length. I can't speak for other configurations as I haven't done the homework. I service and sell Porsche and Maserati parts for a living and have fifteen years of doing so with all the other European automobiles, I know quality and value when I see it in any machine, and Spikes is such, in the case of my upper. However I don't know everything, about anything, so I'm still keeping an ear out as to why this "cheap" upper is lesser than such from BCM or the like, which is why I asked, not to start trouble. I'll continue to keep an open mind and ear/eye, but unless it blows up in my face I don't see regretting my purchase from anything I've read or been told or shown in the last month or two that I've been looking.
I'd also like to thank all of you for tossing this information about freely, it's well received for us more isolated shooters, and that don't have the budget to experiment a lot.
Admittedly, the BCM "price point" isn't very extreme. Right now you could purchase a BCM upper for about $80 more.
Spike's has a history that has led some people to distrust them. Only in the past two years or so have they started to produce quality material... before that they were basically manufacturing frankenguns made out of cheap parts of questionable quality.
BCM HPTs their barrels and bolts, which is something that Spike's has only done in the past few months. And there are some who allege that Spike's is being deceitful about this, because they are still selling at a lower price point than BCM.
I, personally, do not question what Spike's is saying about their guns. They just aren't making anything in any configuration right now that has my interest, whereas a few other companies are (Centurion Arms, Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Noveske), so I won't be purchasing any of their uppers in the near future. I *might* buy one of their 10.5" uppers... *might*. But right now I can get a DD MK18 upper for $800, which is cheaper than it would cost me for a Spike's upper where I have to swap out the gas block and buy a rail.
I hope that explains why Spike's is questioned on this forum.
justin_247
09-26-10, 17:26
With the above said, I should note that I own a few lower receivers from Spike's and they are of outstanding quality. What's funny is that they fit the upper of my primary carbine (a DD XV) better than the lower that came with it. In fact, I'd say it's perfect... just tight enough that there is very, very little movement between the upper and lower, but just loose enough that the take down pins are easily manipulated by hand.
They came with Spike's enhanced LPK instead of the DPMS LPK they were using in the past. The trigger is very smooth and I like it better than my DD trigger, however I don't know how rugged the LPK is in comparison to my DD. With time, I'm sure we'll find out.
Based on personal experience, if I had to rate LPKs, I'd go with the following:
(1) Colt or LMT
(2) G&R Tactical
(3) Spike's or DD
(4) CMT/Stag
With that, maybe that'll help everybody know where I stand on Spike's.
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 17:26
I hope that explains why Spike's is questioned on this forum.
It does, good stuff. Thanks..
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 17:37
BCM HPTs their barrels and bolts
I have a question, or rather my wife who is a non-gun person but not a dummy in the least, just asked me. The HPT, which is my understanding they test them beyond there rated pressure limit and then MP test to check for failure. She says to me something to the effect of "what if that one HPT used up your "gimmie" and the next time it fails?". My assumption is that we are assuming that it's preferable to see if they pass once and hope they will pass again if they need to, rather than just MP them and assume it's good. In the automotive world, and I'm talking $100K plus race engines, we make or have made or use parts that are ALL designed to beyond the moderately worst case they are going to experience in use. For a $150 part (bcg) can't they just be made to a higher spec to start with? I can see why the military might want to do it this way, sort of, or a mass production part, but individually we can afford more than the military's budget can. Lowest bidder and all that. I don't want a connecting rod that I need to live at 9K RPM to be tested to 10K before I get it, miss a shift and find out that a 2nd trip to 10K breaks it. I want one that's good to 12K in bursts and 10K all day long, if you follow. Am I misunderstanding the testing process or overestimating the likelihood of an over-pressure round? Just a thought.
The test is nowhere near high enough pressure to cause any actual catastrophic failure. What you're doing is stressing the part so that you can more easily find inherent flaws that were there already. They're not shooting a round of such high pressure that the barrel is actually failing.
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 18:04
The test is nowhere near high enough pressure to cause any actual catastrophic failure. What you're doing is stressing the part so that you can more easily find inherent flaws that were there already. They're not shooting a round of such high pressure that the barrel is actually failing.
That makes more sense. I wonder what the rate of finding failures is after proof load firing? I suspect that isn't widely broadcast info unless it almost never happens.
justin_247
09-26-10, 18:10
I have a question, or rather my wife who is a non-gun person but not a dummy in the least, just asked me. The HPT, which is my understanding they test them beyond there rated pressure limit and then MP test to check for failure. She says to me something to the effect of "what if that one HPT used up your "gimmie" and the next time it fails?". My assumption is that we are assuming that it's preferable to see if they pass once and hope they will pass again if they need to, rather than just MP them and assume it's good. In the automotive world, and I'm talking $100K plus race engines, we make or have made or use parts that are ALL designed to beyond the moderately worst case they are going to experience in use. For a $150 part (bcg) can't they just be made to a higher spec to start with? I can see why the military might want to do it this way, sort of, or a mass production part, but individually we can afford more than the military's budget can. Lowest bidder and all that. I don't want a connecting rod that I need to live at 9K RPM to be tested to 10K before I get it, miss a shift and find out that a 2nd trip to 10K breaks it. I want one that's good to 12K in bursts and 10K all day long, if you follow. Am I misunderstanding the testing process or overestimating the likelihood of an over-pressure round? Just a thought.
My understanding is that it isn't the likelihood of an overpressure round, but rather the slow and gradual degradation of the barrel over time. I work in aircraft maintenance and we test the parts we manufacture, such a hydraulic hoses, for example, to a higher level of stress than they would normally be subjected to for this reason.
You see the reason many lower-end manufacturers are not interested in the testing process outlined in the TDP. Many manufacturers simply aren't making quality parts and they would suffer losses if they were forced to do this. However, I will say that their losses wouldn't be so substantial that it would destroy them, but it may be enough to impact their share of the market or their salaries.
justin_247
09-26-10, 18:16
After speaking with some of our NDI technicians, I think it needs to be said that there have been great advances in MPI technology over the past few decades and, in the hands of experienced technicians, HPT is probably unnecessary.
The people who update tech data just probably haven't gotten around to updating the TDP or else the TDP is not being updated because it may allow more competitors in.
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 18:24
After speaking with some of our NDI technicians, I think it needs to be said that there have been great advances in MPI technology over the past few decades and, in the hands of experienced technicians, HPT is probably unnecessary.
The people who update tech data just probably haven't gotten around to updating the TDP or else the TDP is not being updated because it may allow more competitors in.
That would cause quite a stir.
I can't help but thinking along the same lines though, when was the TDP written? Hard parts technology has developed a lot in all aspects in the last few decades.
justin_247
09-26-10, 18:37
That would cause quite a stir.
I can't help but thinking along the same lines though, when was the TDP written? Hard parts technology has developed a lot in all aspects in the last few decades.
It may cause a stir because this is an institutionalized process, but cost is a factor here, too. The TDP would probably be amended to allow a certain kind of MPI using a certain standard of equipment/training while still allowing the current method of MPI/HPT/MPI.
... and that certain standard of equipment/training may be more expensive than using the older standard, which means nothing would change. However, as time progresses and that newer technology declines in price while being used more prolifically in industry, it would become the primary method.
But only if the TDP allowed it. There are great forces at work here. To change it, you must have buy-in from many different agencies, each with de facto veto power.
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 18:40
It may cause a stir because this is an institutionalized process, but cost is a factor here, too. The TDP would probably be amended to allow a certain kind of MPI using a certain standard of equipment/training while still allowing the current method of MPI/HPT/MPI.
... and that certain standard of equipment/training may be more expensive than using the older standard, which means nothing would change. However, as time progresses and that newer technology declines in price while being used more prolifically in industry, it would become the primary method.
But only if the TDP allowed it. There are great forces at work here. To change it, you must have buy-in from many different agencies, each with de facto veto power.
No doubt, and getting beyond my understanding of industry. I'm just a mechanic when you get right down to it. :)
It isn't likely to happen though, altering the TDP, as the platform is on the way out one way or another with the military, is it? I'm assuming they are the whole reason for the TDP, no?
justin_247
09-26-10, 18:55
No doubt, and getting beyond my understanding of industry. I'm just a mechanic when you get right down to it. :)
It isn't likely to happen though, altering the TDP, as the platform is on the way out one way or another with the military, is it? I'm assuming they are the whole reason for the TDP, no?
Is the platform on the way out? Eventually, it may be. For the past two decades they've been pumping in dollars to various weapons programs in an attempt to develop a rifle to replace the AR platform, but have yet to do so.
You have to remember that there are numerous forces at work here, too, the most important being minimal dollars for firearms recapitalization in a time when the dollars are needed for war. Another force is that there really haven't been any advances that bring significant enough improvement over the existing platform to justify replacing it. And yet another is the fact that the advances that have come about are fairly easy to bring to this platform due to its modularity.
The civilian sector has played a large role in this, as well. Unlike nations outside of the U.S. that have very stringent gun control measures, we have a massive civilian market that loves paying top dollar for the latest technology. So not only do we have military dollars going to firearms R&D, we also have a significant amount coming from civilians that the military can look at and adopt without any significant development costs. This has helped the platform tremendously, I believe, and more than most people realize.
Not only that, nowadays because there are so many agencies with their hands in the process who all want their own piece of the pie, we end up with platforms that are over-cost and are unable to do their original task really well. We see this especially with large weapons system programs, like aircraft, armor, and information technology. Out of five aircraft that I've worked in the Air Force, the youngest one was 18 years old and the oldest was 57. All of them were slated for replacement decades ago. The same logic applies to firearms, as well.
MistoGators
09-26-10, 19:44
If you mean their lowers are on the same level then I might give you that one. As long as a lower is in spec then pick the rollmark you like and carry on. Just get a quality LPK.
If you are refering to the rifles as a whole then you are misinformed. Spikes rifles as a whole are not on the same level as the BCM or Colt rifles referenced earlier.
They cover everything on the chart, plus they hp their bolts now. Certs were posted awhile back. They're definitely on BCM's technical level:
MPI Bolt - YES
HPT Bolt - YES
Black Extractor Spring Insert - YES
Properly Staked Gas Key - YES
M16 Bolt Carrier - YES
11595E Barrel Steel - YES
MPI Barrel - YES
HPT Barrel - YES
Chrome Chamber - YES
M4 Feedramps - YES
F Marked Front Sight Base - YES
Taper Pins at FSB - YES
Parkerized Finish Under FSB - YES
Double Shield Handguards - YES
1.14 Receiver Extension - YES
Properly Staked Castle Nut - YES
Heavy Buffer - YES
.154 CFG Pin Diameter - YES
Lifetime Warranty - YES
Looks like you're the one that's misinformed... :/
MistoGators
09-26-10, 19:46
The Spike's upper I just received has a 5.56 chamber according to my Michiguns gauge, HPT/MPI barrel and bolt, and proper staking. Is there any more misinformation you wish to spread?
How dare you try and use facts with all of these Spike's haters here on M4C.
justin_247
09-26-10, 19:52
How dare you try and use facts with all of these Spike's haters here on M4C.
... another 9 post troll coming here. If you hate M4C so much, then why did you sign up for it? Go back to ARFCOM.
jklaughrey
09-26-10, 19:53
No need to be a D-bag and troll, keep that tripe over at TOS Ms. Gator!
MistoGators
09-26-10, 20:02
... another 9 post troll coming here. If you hate M4C so much, then why did you sign up for it? Go back to ARFCOM.
Lol when did I say anything about "hating" M4C? I like coming here (as well as TOS and AR15 Armory). You guys are just ridiculous when it comes to Spike's though. The certs were posted, respected people like Vuurhapen have reviewed several of their uppers, and yet you still ignore facts. They individually hp their bolts now, which is the ONLY thing that BCM had over them technically.
Robb Jensen
09-26-10, 20:04
Further NON-technical discussion will be deleted.
wolf_walker
09-26-10, 20:17
Is the platform on the way out?
Well, as someone that decided, or was talked into, an AR pattern rifle after ignoring them for his entire gun-toting adult life, yeah it looks like it. It's gussied up and modular but it's an old setup. I start reading and the first thing I find is "gas piston" and think gee, they finally noticed the AK is reliable and you can abuse it all you want, then I see the SCAR, then the ACR, then the 556 Ruger, and there are a few more that are all somewhat recent developments. It sure looks like it's on the way out. Not quickly, or soon, or completely, but it sure looks like progress is (trying) to be made from my POV.
It's an excellent point about the free civi field testing too, and pretty comical. All these piston conversions, I hope everyone buys one so in five years they can figure out what works, make a standard, then I can buy one. :)
Lol when did I say anything about "hating" M4C? I like coming here (as well as TOS and AR15 Armory). You guys are just ridiculous when it comes to Spike's though. The certs were posted, respected people like Vuurhapen have reviewed several of their uppers, and yet you still ignore facts. They individually hp their bolts now, which is the ONLY thing that BCM had over them technically.
Last time dude: I don't care about certs or specs or HP/MPI. I care about fanboys rolling in with their internet marketing blitz. PERIOD. This thread is for Spikes technical issues. Please use it wisely or it will be gone.
<although lately the Spikes stuff is being overshadowed by the anti-Glock dogpile crowd so maybe you guys are off the hook for awhile>
I am not a M4C veteran, been on the AR bandwagon for about 2 years now, still learn new stuff every day. I have assembled 5 or so AR's over the last 2 years. I have shot a basic KISS AR from Olympic since I was 18 and it served me well for 15+ years.
I started my builds desiring a Southpaw AR and assembled a Stag/RRA I was super happy with. Was impressed by all the beautiful weapons I saw when I built my southpaw. I first come across Spikes for the "look" of their DE receivers from a pic posted on ARCOM. So my experience is based off that last two years. Having said all that, I have assembled and shot 1 full Spikes custom rifle, and used many of their parts and components over the past year and found them all to be very well made and of high quality. Specifically their ELPK, ST-T2, buffer/tube, FailZero BCG (5.56 & 6.8 SPC II,)Bio Hazard Billet set.
I have had no FTF, and have found that the weapons perform just as well as the Noveske and DD that I am comparing them against. The FailZero, BCG's make the cleanup much easier, and the LPk's go together well with the extras I want already included without me having to buy separate. I used a DD 16 "CHF barrel in the Spikes weapon so I won't speak to the accuracy of it in this thread ( +1 DD on that ticket.) I am very happy with the weapon over all and as mentioned before, Spikes customer service was top notch when I called with a question.
Last time dude: I don't care about certs or specs or HP/MPI. I care about fanboys rolling in with their internet marketing blitz. PERIOD. This thread is for Spikes technical issues. Please use it wisely or it will be gone.
<although lately the Spikes stuff is being overshadowed by the anti-Glock dogpile crowd so maybe you guys are off the hook for awhile>
Just to clarify: by technical "issues" do you mean problems? Or range report type posts?
I have a Spikes ST-22, SD model with the fake can and lightweight barrel. I was thinking of making a .22lr Recce directly cloned from a full size model....Larue 12" rail, ACS stock, magpul PG.... I'm looking for a good, dedicated .22lr barrel that will work with the spikes .22 system. I was thinking of the LW .22lr barrel and the other side of me wants to use the CMMG .22 M4 barrel which is only $99. Do I specifically have to use a Spikes type barrel with their bolt system?
BTW the pic on the spikes website looks like a HBAR profile under the handguards.
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/images/large/22%20%20Barrel_LRG.jpg
outrider627
09-27-10, 17:35
I have a Spikes ST-22, SD model with the fake can and lightweight barrel. I was thinking of making a .22lr Recce directly cloned from a full size model....Larue 12" rail, ACS stock, magpul PG.... I'm looking for a good, dedicated .22lr barrel that will work with the spikes .22 system. I was thinking of the LW .22lr barrel and the other side of me wants to use the CMMG .22 M4 barrel which is only $99. Do I specifically have to use a Spikes type barrel with their bolt system?
BTW the pic on the spikes website looks like a HBAR profile under the handguards.
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/images/large/22%20%20Barrel_LRG.jpg
So you want to build a new .22 recce style? Do you have a spare .22 bolt system? Because Spikes isnt selling those anymore, they only sell complete .22 uppers now. Their website says the barrel in your pic is designed for their dedicated bolt system and wont fit a conversion system. Im guessing CMMGs barrel wont fit a Spikes dedicated bolt without modification, if its even possible. You should probably call them and ask about the barrel. Ask about custom work too, they will install any rail, stock, grip, etc on a rifle.
What's the general consensus on the Spikes BAR rail?
outrider627
09-27-10, 21:07
What's the general consensus on the Spikes BAR rail?
I don't own one, but I held a rifle with a BAR installed at a gun show. It's nice because of the beveled edges on the rail slots, no cheese grater feeling. But its really heavy. Unless you have monster sized hands and need a big handguard or plan to go for the rails over suppressor look, wait for the SAR. It's going to be much lighter than the BAR.
I don't own one, but I held a rifle with a BAR installed at a gun show. It's nice because of the beveled edges on the rail slots, no cheese grater feeling. But its really heavy. Unless you have monster sized hands and need a big handguard or plan to go for the rails over suppressor look, wait for the SAR. It's going to be much lighter than the BAR.
A 9" BAR added 2.1oz to my midlength, replacing single heat shield midlength handguards and the barrel nut/delta ring/handguard cap. I am all about weight reduction and look forward to the SAR, but don't find the BAR to be exceptionally heavy. Perhaps the rifle you held had some other components attached? Or a heavy barrel?
The 12" SAR is said to be lighter than a 7" DD Lite.
outrider627
09-28-10, 00:25
A 9" BAR added 2.1oz to my midlength, replacing single heat shield midlength handguards and the barrel nut/delta ring/handguard cap. I am all about weight reduction and look forward to the SAR, but don't find the BAR to be exceptionally heavy. Perhaps the rifle you held had some other components attached? Or a heavy barrel?
The 12" SAR is said to be lighter than a 7" DD Lite.
The rifle was a plain spikes m4 with a 7in BAR. Maybe I was just expecting a carbine AR with a rail system to feel lighter.
You are right about the BAR not being exceptionally heavy, I just compared the different sizes to equivalent Daniel Defense Lite models. The correct thing to say is compared to the SAR, the BAR will be heavy. The 12in SAR weighing under 8.5 oz is awesome. A 12in BAR is 16 oz. How much of that weight savings do you think can be attributed to the titanium barrel nut?
I found the OD of the SAR to be too fat. I'm looking forward to seeing the skinny version.
MistoGators
09-28-10, 11:32
rob_s, is the magazine with your article out yet?
rob_s, is the magazine with your article out yet?
I don't think so. Going to look tonight as I have quite a few articles coming out in the next month or so.
I currently have a complete lower sitting at home, ready to be mated to an upper when I go on leave and do some rehabilitative shooting, so I am in the market for a complete upper.
It has been a couple years since I bought my last AR, so I did a quick bit of research and was surprised by what I found:
I want a mid-length upper, and would prefer a lightweight one.
A complete with MOE forearm, BCG and BCM Gunfighter CH and MBUS BCM lightweight midlength, comes in at $656 from G&R Tactical, ready to pin to my lower.
A complete Spike's tactical mid-length, regular profile barrel upper, completed like the above BCM, comes in at $625, and it's not even the profile I like. In fact, Spike's doesn't even offer a lightweight mid-length.
So, I only pay a $31 premium for the upper I want from BCM, where I have to settle for a standard profile upper from Spike's.
$31. After hearing all the hype, I am underwhelmed.
wolf_walker
10-04-10, 18:21
I currently have a complete lower sitting at home, ready to be mated to an upper when I go on leave and do some rehabilitative shooting, so I am in the market for a complete upper.
It has been a couple years since I bought my last AR, so I did a quick bit of research and was surprised by what I found:
I want a mid-length upper, and would prefer a lightweight one.
A complete with MOE forearm, BCG and BCM Gunfighter CH and MBUS BCM lightweight midlength, comes in at $656 from G&R Tactical, ready to pin to my lower.
A complete Spike's tactical mid-length, regular profile barrel upper, completed like the above BCM, comes in at $625, and it's not even the profile I like. In fact, Spike's doesn't even offer a lightweight mid-length.
So, I only pay a $31 premium for the upper I want from BCM, where I have to settle for a standard profile upper from Spike's.
$31. After hearing all the hype, I am underwhelmed.
All in what you want, you can't go wrong with BCM if spikes don't have what you need. Myself I saved a hundred bucks and change going with them compared to the same setup upper. $100 isn't much but when in the contest of a $400-$500 part it's significant. And I like the under-dog (as long as they don't suck). :)
We are all lucky as hell outfits like Bravo and Spikes are pumping out quality, affordable parts for us.
All in what you want, you can't go wrong with BCM if spikes don't have what you need. Myself I saved a hundred bucks and change going with them compared to the same setup upper. $100 isn't much but when in the contest of a $400-$500 part it's significant. And I like the under-dog (as long as they don't suck). :)
We are all lucky as hell outfits like Bravo and Spikes are pumping out quality, affordable parts for us.
You might've been able to save $100 6 months ago, but currently Spike's prices are approximately the same as BCM. At least according to their website. And they just do not have the selection as BCM right now.
wolf_walker
10-04-10, 21:53
You might've been able to save $100 6 months ago, but currently Spike's prices are approximately the same as BCM. At least according to their website. And they just do not have the selection as BCM right now.
Watching for sales helps with both of them, BCM seems to be especially wiling to put stuff on special pretty often. If they have what you want go for it, it's all good stuff. I got mine maybe a month ago, I read for three weeks or more and couldn't justify the extra cost of the BCM really, but to be honest it was the not including handguards that swayed me. It was $115 more for the BCM by the time I paid shipping on it and the cost of handguards and shipping. That's just me and my plane jane little mid-length though, BCM offers so many combo's of uppers it's hard to make sense of unless you are hunting for something specific. I haven't priced anything sense, I've got awhile before I decide if I like this platform enough to build another. If I do I'll try something from BCM. I did buy a buffer tube from them, dig the stickers. :)
Anyone in Colorado wanting a spikes ar, here is an ad for one for $775.00 on colorado gun market:
http://www.cologunmarket.com/mkt/viewtopic.php?t=15386
Sorry if this post is not supposed to be in this thread...
Since most of you have been pretty well behaved in this thread:
We are going to go back to normal operating procedures for threads relating to Spike's Tactical products, reviews, etc. No more "one thread" for all Spike's discussions.
However, some ground rules:
1) If you are posting a new thread and all you have is pictures of your Spike's weapon, upper, part, etc it goes in one of the picture threads already running. No we will not make a special "Spikes Picture Thread".
2) If there is an open thread doing a review of a Spikes product, and you own the same product, do not start another thread with minimal new content so you can feel special. Tag your thoughts on the existing thread, or start a whole new thread with NEW and SUBSTANTIALLY different content.
3) If you disagree with something someone says about Spike's, stay within the rules of the site, use the report button if necessary, or calm yourself and walk away from the computer for awhile. We will tolerate ZERO BULLSHIT relating to Spike's Tactical fans or Spike's Tactical haters creating work for our mods or staff.
3a) If you get banned or warned for the above zero tolerance policy, take it like a man, and don't cry about it in emails to STAFF, or posts on other webforums.
4) Stay in your lane, qualified first hand experience trumps all else in most cases. If you want to talk about mil-spec or whatever, you better bring your bona fides to the party, or provide a readily verifiable source.
I am going to leave this thread open for a few hours, but as of right now new content relating to Spikes's Tactical is allowed to proceed per our normal rules with the above exceptions/exclusions/provisions.
Thanks.
Bravo Shivan! I for one, am glad to see this topic coming to an end. While I understand the original need to consolidate threads due to an unusual influx of mostly worthless information, the fanboys and haters alike have been a detriment to M4C for the last few months and have created an unnecessary perception of bias and competition. Glad to see this one gone.
I have a Spikes ST-22, SD model with the fake can and lightweight barrel. I was thinking of making a .22lr Recce directly cloned from a full size model....Larue 12" rail, ACS stock, magpul PG.... I'm looking for a good, dedicated .22lr barrel that will work with the spikes .22 system. I was thinking of the LW .22lr barrel and the other side of me wants to use the CMMG .22 M4 barrel which is only $99. Do I specifically have to use a Spikes type barrel with their bolt system?
BTW the pic on the spikes website looks like a HBAR profile under the handguards.
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/images/large/22%20%20Barrel_LRG.jpg
The Spikes barrel collar and CMMG collar are different. Different inside diameters, .500 vs. .460, and the CMMG uses a spring detent and grooved barrel extension.
The CMMG set up is the best I've used with the BCG actually snapping onto the barrel. Won't move or drop out. Movement will effect accuracy and reliability.
I have an extra Spikes collar and some other parts in you decide you want to go that route.
See above, this thread is over. Any new Spike's Tactical related content can be posted in the appropriate areas under the guidelines issued above.
Thanks.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.