View Full Version : M&P APEX Components Long Term Durability. User reviews wanted
domestique
09-09-10, 08:39
With any aftermarket part, especially on a gun that hasn’t been out that many years, I am always concerned about product durability compared to factory components.
I would like any user reviews on APEX’s M&P Striker Block, Failure Resistant Extractor, and Tactical Sear.
1. Has anyone had any negative problems with these parts (breakages, FTFire, FTE, FTFeed?
2. How have they passed high round count trials?
3. How does Smith and Wesson view these parts, will they still service your pistol after these modifications have been made?
Thank you for your time!
1. No
2. Yes
3. S&W would likely remove the Apex parts from your pistol and replace them with stock factory parts should you return it for warranty work--thus keep your old stock parts around and stick them back in should the pistol need to return to the factory. On the other hand, if you can install the Apex Duty Kit, you are likely capable of replacing any part on the pistol that might need repair, excepting a major frame or barrel failure. so this may not be an issue...
G34Shooter
09-09-10, 10:25
With any aftermarket part, especially on a gun that hasn’t been out that many years, I am always concerned about product durability compared to factory components.
I would like any user reviews on APEX’s M&P Striker Block, Failure Resistant Extractor, and Tactical Sear.
1. Has anyone had any negative problems with these parts (breakages, FTFire, FTE, FTFeed?
2. How have they passed high round count trials?
3. How does Smith and Wesson view these parts, will they still service your pistol after these modifications have been made?
Thank you for your time!
1. none
2. Only 800 rounds so far with the DCAEK and Extractor so far
3. Remove them before you send it in, or they will :stop:
domestique
09-09-10, 10:33
Doc,
Do you recommend the M&P Failure Resistant Extractor in addition to the DCAEK?
1. Nope
2. 2500 rounds so far, no problems yet.
3. The only thing I'd be sending the gun back to them for would be something catastrophic, so I'd likely scavenge everything salvageable off the gun first and just send them the busted remnants.
3. Remove them before you send it in, or they will
Very true. Any manufacturer will do this as a matter of course. Any parts that don't meet original factory spec get replaced. If you're lucky, they'll drop your aftermarket parts in a baggie and send them back with the gun, but I wouldn't count on it.
SWATcop556
09-09-10, 11:21
1.) No problems with mine so far in two M&P40's
2.) I have 6000 through one and 5500 through the other. Not a torture test but well above what I require to carry on duty.
3.) As was said, take the parts out before you send it in for any warranty work.
I'm not Doc but the extractor is an upgrade on the 9mm guns but no issues with the factory extractors on my 40's. It was meant to make the 9mm guns more reliable with all factory ammo but I've got 7500+ through a M&P9 FS with one FTE on a stock extractor so take it for what's it's worth. Anything Apex has put out so far has been top notch so it can't hurt that's for sure.
1) No failures
2) About 7K on an Apex sear & Ultimate Striker Block.
3) As others have responded.
I have about 3000 rounds through my M&P9, about 2000 of those have been with the DCAEK.
After a three day class and 1500 rounds my trigger was VERY gritty, so gritty you could hear it grind no problem when dry firing. It basically made the trigger worse than it was before the kit.
I field stripped and did a basic clean. No change.
I had to do a detailed breakdown and remove the trigger spring and clean that area. I found out that the problem was that the apex trigger spring’s loops are positioned differently which makes the spring sit to the left of the channel that it sits between. It was rubbing up against the built up grime against the left side of that channel.
I checked and rechecked the install videos on youtube, but I’m sure it’s in there right. After a detailed cleaning it was smooth as butter like when I first installed it.
Randy recently said that the new reset assist will go through 100,000 rounds of testing before being released. I wouldn't worry about durability at all.
silentsod has like 7k through his apex set up and he never even cleans his gun. :o
I have about 3000 rounds through my M&P9, about 2000 of those have been with the DCAEK.
After a three day class and 1500 rounds my trigger was VERY gritty, so gritty you could hear it grind no problem when dry firing. It basically made the trigger worse than it was before the kit.
I field stripped and did a basic clean. No change.
I had to do a detailed breakdown and remove the trigger spring and clean that area. I found out that the problem was that the apex trigger spring’s loops are positioned differently which makes the spring sit to the left of the channel that it sits between. It was rubbing up against the built up grime against the left side of that channel.
I checked and rechecked the install videos on youtube, but I’m sure it’s in there right. After a detailed cleaning it was smooth as butter like when I first installed it.
Greetings,
Some of our earlier generation trigger return springs have the loops not in the same plane. While this shouldn't cause roughness in the trigger pull, contact me directly and I can arrange to have a new one sent out. The shot peening stress relieves the wire, so we had to have our springmaker compensate for that. All the newer versions should have loops in the same plane (or close to it).
-Randy
"Do you recommend the M&P Failure Resistant Extractor in addition to the DCAEK?"
Perhaps if you have a problematic M&P9, however, we have not had any problems with the M&P40's and M&P45's.
If you shoot a ton of rounds a year the fail resistant extractor wont hurt however, it may not help.
If your gun has no extraction or ejection problems to begin with the part is simply not required at least im my eyes.
When questioned as to why this part was brought onto the market Randy's response was along the lines of "well, competition shooters shoot a ton of rounds a year and are actually wearing out their extractors."
Unless you're shooting upwards of 70K (this number is completely arbitrary as there are too many variables involved) a year i dont think you will have a problem.
I shot 30+k out of my first 4.25 inch 9mm in the period of a year and two years later im STILL on ALL original parts minus a striker (and an MA trigger spring which went into the gun about a year ago) which i broke three months ago.
Ive been using the Apex parts since the very first batch was released. Ive lost count of the amount of rounds ive put on my sears and the amount of dry fires but i absolutely, positively trust these parts 100%.
domestique
09-09-10, 23:29
Many thanks a lot to everyone that replied. It seems APEX components are good to go.
There's the M&P, the M&P Spec Ops, the M&P Pro and the M&P PT.com edition. Seems like maybe their should be an M&P Apex edition!
There's the M&P, the M&P Spec Ops, the M&P Pro and the M&P PT.com edition. Seems like maybe their should be an M&P Apex edition!
I would like to see something like that happen. As soon as Bar-Sto makes their M&P barrel, I think we may offer an upgrade package incorporating some proprietary elements of my own...
-Randy
SWATcop556
09-10-10, 09:51
I would like to see something like that happen. As soon as Bar-Sto makes their M&P barrel, I think we may offer an upgrade package incorporating some proprietary elements of my own...
-Randy
I'm all over it if you do.
G34Shooter
09-10-10, 11:16
I'm all over it if you do.
Same :alcoholic:
Here, here....4th in line.
I would like to see something like that happen. As soon as Bar-Sto makes their M&P barrel, I think we may offer an upgrade package incorporating some proprietary elements of my own...
-Randy
I'm in.:D Have you guys ever thought about doing grip mods? You would be a one stop shop for a custom M&P!
[QUOTE=tommyk42;755180]I'm in.:D Have you guys ever thought about doing grip mods? You would be a one stop shop for a custom M&P![/QUOTE
We can, but only do it on a limited basis. :)
Nice! Any pictures of your work?
Nice! Any pictures of your work?
Unfortunately everytime I do one, it ends up getting sent back before I can get pictures!
spamsammich
09-10-10, 16:39
I'm running into an issue similar to what some people are seeing with the Pro sear installed. When I run the trigger fast like for controlled pairs or FAST drills the trigger will go dead, probably from the sear not rebounding fast enough or a tolerance stack between my rails and slide letting the striker jump over the sear. I have 1700 rounds on my sear 4k total on the gun, 700 of the 1700 are full DCAEK.
Oddly enough, I didn't notice the failures to reset until after the DCAEK install but I'm not convinced it is a result of the apex parts as people with pro sears report the same issue.
Randy and I are working as fast as we can to resolve the issue, I might add that he is an absolute joy to work with and a shining pillar of CS. Thanks Randy. I'll get home tonight and install the new sear and post the results tomorrow afternoon. I'm sure we'll get it sorted out.
Good! Hopefully it is cured!
I'm running into an issue similar to what some people are seeing with the Pro sear installed. When I run the trigger fast like for controlled pairs or FAST drills the trigger will go dead, probably from the sear not rebounding fast enough or a tolerance stack between my rails and slide letting the striker jump over the sear. I have 1700 rounds on my sear 4k total on the gun, 700 of the 1700 are full DCAEK.
Oddly enough, I didn't notice the failures to reset until after the DCAEK install but I'm not convinced it is a result of the apex parts as people with pro sears report the same issue.
Randy and I are working as fast as we can to resolve the issue, I might add that he is an absolute joy to work with and a shining pillar of CS. Thanks Randy. I'll get home tonight and install the new sear and post the results tomorrow afternoon. I'm sure we'll get it sorted out.
To be sure I'm reading you correctly - Your trouble is seemingly with the Smith & Wesson factory Performance Center sear? You're about to install an APEX sear to see if that solves it? Is this correct?
To be sure I'm reading you correctly - Your trouble is seemingly with the Smith & Wesson factory Performance Center sear? You're about to install an APEX sear to see if that solves it? Is this correct?
Spamsammich's problem also occurred with our sear. I wrote a long dissertation on the problem over on the MP-pistol forum.
It is related to the vertical tolerances between slide and frame, the minute sear spring in the sear housing block, the profile of the cam surface of the sear, and the position of the trigger loop(or dog ear) relative to the cam surface during disconnect.
Essentially during recoil, the sear bounces. The bounce can be enough that the trigger bar can slip back underneath the sear and prevent the sear from catching the striker as the slide goes forward.
The ultimate solution is to use a larger diameter and longer sear spring and plunger.
Here is what I wrote over on the mp-pistol forum:
Greetings,
We have been investigating the problem for a little while and have isolated a few causes. Sear spring dimension, vertical tolerance between slide and frame coupled with the non-stock sear geometry such as ours and the pro sear all contribute to the dead trigger.
The primary culprit is sear bounce during recoil. My personal feeling is that the sear spring is not of adequate size to stabilize the sear during recoil, especially in the .40,.357 and .45s- moreso with the compacts.
The North Carolina State Police had issues with this as they use the .357 Sig caliber. The factory solution to the problem was to retrofit the pistols with a sear housing block similar if not identical to tha MA compliant version, and a new trigger assembly. The larger sear spring and plunger helps retard the inertial bounce by applying more adequate upward pressure to the sear.
The vertical tolerance between the slide and frame can vary as much as .015 or more (in some of the guns I've measured). When you figure that I established our sear to have .040" of sear/striker engagement and you lose almost half of that due to overly generous slide to frame vertical spacing- sear bounce becomes an
issue of great concern. Regardless of what some LE sales reps are telling their customers-that our sears are the culprit, our sears are not the problem.
Of all the sears we have sold, we know of less than 20 instances of dead triggers. Of those, I have inspected 7 and found all of them to have slide/frame gaps that measured .010-.018 greater than our other test pistols.
The Pro series pistols have been around for a while longer than our sear and reports of dead triggers have been reported since its introduction.
In most of the dead trigger reports, the sear is bouncing enough to let the trigger bar slip back under the sear. This effectively prevents the sear from recovering to full height. This is why many report that they detect no feeling of trigger reset when they release the trigger after the malfunction occurs. The trigger bar is already positioned under the sear cam as if it were ready to fire. But because the striker is already forward of the sear at this point, racking the slide is the only option to recock the striker.
I believe the M&P platform is an exceptional pistol. It just needs to evolve a bit more.
To that end, in the upcoming months we will be producing our own proprietary solutions.
Until then I encourage anyone who is experiencing a dead trigger with our sear to contact me directly.
randy@apextactical.com
-Randy
Alright, I get it. Thanks, Randy. PM inbound.
G34Shooter
09-10-10, 22:16
Thank goodness I sent my gun to you for the DCAEK install due to my frame to slide tolerances that may have caused the same problem :p
mike benedict
09-11-10, 12:38
I have seen the dead trigger problem twice.
Once on a .45 with a home done trigger and once on a full size M&P that also had a trigger job.
Both times the problem was solved by installing a new sear.
thumbbreak
09-11-10, 17:12
Randy,
My M&P duty still has the factory crappo in it. The difference between the carry package and the competition package is 3-3.5 pounds, correct? Is this achieved mainly through the springs used or the geometry of the parts?
I ask because my gun will be used for speed at a maximum and highly probably distance of 40 yards. It would be nice to have as little poundage as possible but I don't want a liability issue if I have to eliminate a threat.
Is there a hybrid setup or just go with the 4-5 pound carry and be done with it?
Randy,
My M&P duty still has the factory crappo in it. The difference between the carry package and the competition package is 3-3.5 pounds, correct? Is this achieved mainly through the springs used or the geometry of the parts?
I ask because my gun will be used for speed at a maximum and highly probably distance of 40 yards. It would be nice to have as little poundage as possible but I don't want a liability issue if I have to eliminate a threat.
Is there a hybrid setup or just go with the 4-5 pound carry and be done with it?
The competition kit will give you a 2.5-2.75 lb trigger pull. Which I think is too light for street use. The DC kit should be about 5 lbs. The sear and striker block kit provides a 4 lb pull.
Both kits were built around the sear and it's 4 lb. release geometry.
I know Grant likes using the DCAEK and replacing the striker spring with our competition version. Grant started a thread on it not too long ago.
-Randy
A DC trigger spring will cover up most of the remaining unevenness in the "first stage", as the striker block is compressed. Combine that with a lighter striker spring and you'll end up with something that pulls smooth but still breaks a little lighter. Comparable to a Glock NY-1 with a 3.5 lb disconnector, so to speak.
Only reason I don't run a light striker spring is that I've had a few problems with hard / improperly seated primers. A full strength striker spring lights 'em off every time and for me, that's worth an extra pound on the trigger.
thumbbreak--we have been running extensive trials with the M&P's. The Apex Duty Kits give a 5-6 lbs measued pull weight in our pistols, however, they are so smooth that it feels much less--certainly lighter in feel than Glocks w/3.5 connectors. First round hits with the M&P/Apex Duty set-up are quite possible all the way out to 100 yards.
spamsammich
09-11-10, 20:14
250 rounds on the modified Apex sear from Randy. Only side effect is a slightly longer distance from reset to break, but it hasn't seemed to upset my accuracy at all. I could keep everything in the 10 ring of a B-8 target at 5 yards as fast as I could acquire a sight picture.
Fast 10 round strings (where i was having a lot of problems), controlled pairs, slow fire, all while prepping the trigger for the next round and not a single hickup. I call it cured. Kudos to Apex and especially Randy for sorting me out.
250 rounds on the modified Apex sear from Randy. Only side effect is a slightly longer distance from reset to break, but it hasn't seemed to upset my accuracy at all. I could keep everything in the 10 ring of a B-8 target at 5 yards as fast as I could acquire a sight picture.
Fast 10 round strings (where i was having a lot of problems), controlled pairs, slow fire, all while prepping the trigger for the next round and not a single hickup. I call it cured. Kudos to Apex and especially Randy for sorting me out.
Glad I could help. I believe the sear housing blocks in the MA compliant guns would cure most if not all of the dead trigger issues experienced with the pro sear as well as ours.
-Randy
thumbbreak
09-11-10, 22:50
thumbbreak--we have been running extensive trials with the M&P's. The Apex Duty Kits give a 5-6 lbs measued pull weight in our pistols, however, they are so smooth that it feels much less--certainly lighter in feel than Glocks w/3.5 connectors. First round hits with the M&P/Apex Duty set-up are quite possible all the way out to 100 yards.
Thanks doc. I'm obviously going to give one of the kits a try. The standard takes too much concentration at that distance in a non-stress environment with the stock stuff. MP 40 is a really good duty pistol but with the stock trigger you feel every bit of tension in that take-up. Looking for every advantage...
:D
Glad I could help. I believe the sear housing blocks in the MA compliant guns would cure most if not all of the dead trigger issues experienced with the pro sear as well as ours.
-Randy
So a permanent fix is in the works for this "dead trigger" issue?
I have been tempted to order an M&P9 from Grant, but after reading about the some of the failure to reset issues with the Apex kit, i am not sure. Are the stock trigger's more reliable function wise?
Omega are you referring to short stroking or an actual failure to reset? Haven't heard much about this at all.
-Jax
When I had two incidents of this with my PC 9, I started canvassing several sites with a lot of M&P users, incl M4C.
I would say it appeared to be most prevalent in the 5" M&P Pro 9 and one buyer of the pistoltraining.com special edition reported it and those had the PC sear.
Apex advocates have posted here that this is a non-issue with Apex parts but a few Apex users reported differently in the long "problems" thread and then Randy Lee explained how it [quote] "is related to the vertical tolerances between slide and frame, the minute sear spring in the sear housing block, the profile of the cam surface of the sear, and the position of the trigger loop(or dog ear) relative to the cam surface during disconnect.
Essentially during recoil, the sear bounces. The bounce can be enough that the trigger bar can slip back underneath the sear and prevent the sear from catching the striker as the slide goes forward." [unquote]
I've asked the question of Grant on discussions here whether this wasn't a 9mm issue vs a .40 but he responded it wasn't limited to 9mm. That is probably so but I don't recall seeing many if any .40 users report this.
With my own eyes I have never read a .45 user report this failure to reset. The .45 slide is dimensionally different yes?
If I were buying, it would be the .45 just on the hunch that the differences might avoid this tolerance stack condition.
In fact, I might do just that in about a year when I see how this is worked out by S&W engineering . . . assuming they eventually tackle this.
John_Wayne777
09-14-10, 07:00
Since there was already a thread dealing with this, I merged your thread with this one. Please note Randy's post on page 2, as it should answer all your concerns.
If you order an Apex'd M&P from Grant, he does the installation and tuning on the gun and is able to make it run reliably on the chance that you encounter a gun that's wobbly enough on the spec to present a reset issue in the first place.
Omega are you referring to short stroking or an actual failure to reset? Haven't heard much about this at all.
-Jax
There was some mention of failure to reset with the Pro model and the Apex kit.
Since there was already a thread dealing with this, I merged your thread with this one. Please note Randy's post on page 2, as it should answer all your concerns.
If you order an Apex'd M&P from Grant, he does the installation and tuning on the gun and is able to make it run reliably on the chance that you encounter a gun that's wobbly enough on the spec to present a reset issue in the first place.
Gotcha. Thanks.
When I had two incidents of this with my PC 9, I started canvassing several sites with a lot of M&P users, incl M4C.
I would say it appeared to be most prevalent in the 5" M&P Pro 9 and one buyer of the pistoltraining.com special edition reported it and those had the PC sear.
Apex advocates have posted here that this is a non-issue with Apex parts but a few Apex users reported differently in the long "problems" thread and then Randy Lee explained how it [quote] "is related to the vertical tolerances between slide and frame, the minute sear spring in the sear housing block, the profile of the cam surface of the sear, and the position of the trigger loop(or dog ear) relative to the cam surface during disconnect.
Essentially during recoil, the sear bounces. The bounce can be enough that the trigger bar can slip back underneath the sear and prevent the sear from catching the striker as the slide goes forward." [unquote]
I've asked the question of Grant on discussions here whether this wasn't a 9mm issue vs a .40 but he responded it wasn't limited to 9mm. That is probably so but I don't recall seeing many if any .40 users report this.
With my own eyes I have never read a .45 user report this failure to reset. The .45 slide is dimensionally different yes?
If I were buying, it would be the .45 just on the hunch that the differences might avoid this tolerance stack condition.
In fact, I might do just that in about a year when I see how this is worked out by S&W engineering . . . assuming they eventually tackle this.
I experienced lack of trigger reset with a full size M&P .45 with PC sear. Here is a copy of my experience from "The S&W M&P problem thread:"
"I have 2 full size M&P .45s. I have had issues with one.
MPRXXXX
- Date Code April 2007
- Approximately 600 rounds of various factory 230 grain FMJ without incident.
- Sent the pistol to S&W for the M&P package (primarily for the PC sear) and Massachusetts trigger spring in order to improve trigger pull and reset.
- Received gun back. Fired 100 rounds of factory 230 grain FMJ. 17 times the trigger failed to reset. If I press checked the gun, the trigger would reset, and I could continue to fire.
- Sent the gun back to S&W. They replaced the striker and fired 60 rounds without incident.
- Received gun back. Fired 50 rounds of factory 230 grain FMJ. 2 times the trigger failed to reset. Press checked the gun, trigger reset, and I fired the cartridge.
- Sent the gun back to S&W. They replaced all fire control components. Two individuals fired a total of 100 rounds through the gun without incident.
- Received gun back. First outing I fired 100 rounds of 230 grain factory ammo without incident. Second outing I fired 200 rounds of 230 grain factory without incident." - Page 2, Post 23
Dayim! I was hoping .45's were immune. Thanks. But there's that PC sear again. I have no doubt Apex/Randy has a plan.
Dayim! I was hoping .45's were immune. Thanks. But there's that PC sear again. I have no doubt Apex/Randy has a plan.
Yes we do. :) we will be making our own sear housing blocks which use larger sear springs as well as incorporating our proprietary RAM. Since we can control tolerances vertically, the dead trigger should no longer be an issue.
For those interested in match accuracy, we will be making matched sets of sear housing and locking blocks. There is no reason why the M&P cannot be made to shoot 1" or less @ 25 yds.
-Randy
willowofwisp
09-14-10, 20:09
Yes we do. :) we will be making our own sear housing blocks which use larger sear springs as well as incorporating our proprietary RAM. Since we can control tolerances vertically, the dead trigger should no longer be an issue.
For those interested in match accuracy, we will be making matched sets of sear housing and locking blocks. There is no reason why the M&P cannot be made to shoot 1" or less @ 25 yds.
-Randy
Wow, thats 1911 territory there, very impressive.
I can't wait till your 9/40 RAM is out
I guess i should wait on that DCEAK M&P until the bugs are worked out.
G34Shooter
09-14-10, 22:23
I guess i should wait on that DCEAK M&P until the bugs are worked out.
You make it sound like Apex is the cause when it's S&W themselves with the tolerance stacking.
spamsammich
09-14-10, 23:50
I guess i should wait on that DCEAK M&P until the bugs are worked out.
Apex isn't alone in the dead trigger issue, S&W's own Pro sear causes the same issue on certain guns. The fix in my case turned out to be very simple.
John_Wayne777
09-15-10, 07:49
I guess i should wait on that DCEAK M&P until the bugs are worked out.
...or just buy one from Grant and ask him to check out the gun first, then run the gun a bit to ensure it functions as it should.
I guess i should wait on that DCEAK M&P until the bugs are worked out.
Seems to me there are as many people having issues with Apex parts as there are people having issues with stock Glocks. Glock is one of the most reliable guns ever made, but no machine is perfect. I wouldn't want to guess at a number, but very few Glocks ever fail and from what I have read VERY few Apex kits do not result in love and praise by their owners. Mine is sitting right here waiting for my M&P 9 to show up from OMB Express. I do not know a single person with an Apex duty kit that has ever had an issue.
...or just buy one from Grant and ask him to check out the gun first, then run the gun a bit to ensure it functions as it should.
Sounds like a plan. Thanks.
Seems to me there are as many people having issues with Apex parts as there are people having issues with stock Glocks. Glock is one of the most reliable guns ever made, but no machine is perfect. I wouldn't want to guess at a number, but very few Glocks ever fail and from what I have read VERY few Apex kits do not result in love and praise by their owners. Mine is sitting right here waiting for my M&P 9 to show up from OMB Express. I do not know a single person with an Apex duty kit that has ever had an issue.
Good points.
I have a question that may be a little off topic but don't want to start a new topic for a yes/no question. Does the stock M&P sear say 'Talon Tactical'? or the Apex Sear? or both?
G34Shooter
09-16-10, 08:07
I have a question that may be a little off topic but don't want to start a new topic for a yes/no question. Does the stock M&P sear say 'Talon Tactical'? or the Apex Sear? or both?
Neither, that is a rear sight pusher made from Talon Tactical included with the AEK's.
Wayne Dobbs
09-16-10, 09:12
Actually it's a tool to keep the firing pin safety spring in place when you remove or install the rear sight (which retains that spring).
G34Shooter
09-16-10, 10:12
Actually it's a tool to keep the firing pin safety spring in place when you remove or install the rear sight (which retains that spring).
That's why I shouldn't post before I wake up :o
After getting some good information from Randy about the Apex parts, and also about Grant's diligent and meticulous approach to inspection and installation, I ordered up an M&P 9 this morning, with Apex sear, Apex striker block, and Grant's install/polish/tweak job. I also ordered up a couple of the competition striker springs, to try out. As a diehard 1911/Hi-Power guy, with a fair appreciation of Glock 9mm's, I anticipate that this M&P will be a favorite. If it works out as I imagine it will, I'll be ordering up another just like it.
Can't wait to hit the range...
After getting some good information from Randy about the Apex parts, and also about Grant's diligent and meticulous approach to inspection and installation, I ordered up an M&P 9 this morning, with Apex sear, Apex striker block, and Grant's install/polish/tweak job. I also ordered up a couple of the competition striker springs, to try out. As a diehard 1911/Hi-Power guy, with a fair appreciation of Glock 9mm's, I anticipate that this M&P will be a favorite. If it works out as I imagine it will, I'll be ordering up another just like it.
Can't wait to hit the range...
I have an M&P 45 with thumb safety, Pro=glow, APEX kit and striker spring on order fron Grant right now.
Im a 1911 guy too, and Im not suprised with the ergos and controls on this gun why its attractive to 1911 guys.
Talking to Grant and the inspection he gives the guns was a selling point for me too.
If you want to talk extractor tension on 1911's or FLGR's (I say no on anything but a competition gun) I can converse. But this is a totaly new design for me, so it gives some pices of mind that Grant can check for things like the slide to frame gap when installing aftermarket sears.
Yes we do. :) we will be making our own sear housing blocks which use larger sear springs as well as incorporating our proprietary RAM. Since we can control tolerances vertically, the dead trigger should no longer be an issue.
For those interested in match accuracy, we will be making matched sets of sear housing and locking blocks. There is no reason why the M&P cannot be made to shoot 1" or less @ 25 yds.
-Randy
Would we see this type of accuracy improvement using the factory barrel or the soon to be produced Barsto gunsmith fit barrel ? And thanks Apex, for taking the M&P pistol from a good pistol to a great pistol one part at a time.
I believe you would see some improvement using the factory barrel, but I won't know how much until we get the blocks made and we test for accuracy.
I know that a well fit barrel also helps.
Several years ago I built up a competition Glock 24 for our own Lisa Farrell to shoot in USPSA limited division. I fit a Caspian slide and Briley gunsmith fit barrel to her G-22 frame. On its maiden voyage, Lisa shot a .83" group @50yds OFF-HAND. There is a reason why she holds 7 world titles...
The point is that I believe the M&P is capable of the same mechanical accuracy.
If you call our shop to order parts, tech help or customer service and you speak to a gal, that would be Lisa- ask her about the Glock. We still have the target hanging in the shop.
-Randy
G34Shooter
09-18-10, 12:43
I believe you would see some improvement using the factory barrel, but I won't know how much until we get the blocks made and we test for accuracy.
I know that a well fit barrel also helps.
Several years ago I built up a competition Glock 24 for our own Lisa Farrell to shoot in USPSA limited division. I fit a Caspian slide and Briley gunsmith fit barrel to her G-22 frame. On its maiden voyage, Lisa shot a .83" group @50yds OFF-HAND. There is a reason why she holds 7 world titles...
The point is that I believe the M&P is capable of the same mechanical accuracy.
If you call our shop to order parts, tech help or customer service and you speak to a gal, that would be Lisa- ask her about the Glock. We still have the target hanging in the shop.
-Randy
Wow! Please post a pic of that target!
I believe you would see some improvement using the factory barrel, but I won't know how much until we get the blocks made and we test for accuracy.
I know that a well fit barrel also helps.
Several years ago I built up a competition Glock 24 for our own Lisa Farrell to shoot in USPSA limited division. I fit a Caspian slide and Briley gunsmith fit barrel to her G-22 frame. On its maiden voyage, Lisa shot a .83" group @50yds OFF-HAND. There is a reason why she holds 7 world titles...
The point is that I believe the M&P is capable of the same mechanical accuracy.
If you call our shop to order parts, tech help or customer service and you speak to a gal, that would be Lisa- ask her about the Glock. We still have the target hanging in the shop.
-Randy
Holy smokes Randy! I'm a proud Glock koolaid drinker ;) but really enjoyed my 2400 rounds with a Pro 9. These latest R&D developments sound incredible and with dead trigger eliminated and improved accuracy, I will welcome working with this platform a lot in the future. That really sounds slick.
I put the DCAEK into my M&P45 and M&P 9mm. Both were simple installs and provided noticeable improvements in both trigger pull and reset.
I have over 6000 through the 45 and about 4500 through the 9mm. Most of the 9mm was that 95gr frangible stuff. Both guns and kits have been great! I have not experienced any issues with either gun.
Greetings,
Some of our earlier generation trigger return springs have the loops not in the same plane. While this shouldn't cause roughness in the trigger pull, contact me directly and I can arrange to have a new one sent out. The shot peening stress relieves the wire, so we had to have our springmaker compensate for that. All the newer versions should have loops in the same plane (or close to it).
-Randy
Got the new spring and the slave pin (that made things SO much easier). Heres a vid of the problem that I made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFm-4X6lp7I
Got the new spring and the slave pin (that made things SO much easier). Heres a vid of the problem that I made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFm-4X6lp7I
Nice video! One thing I should mention is that if you use an organic solvent like acetone, MEK etc. such as found in gunscrubber, brake cleaner and the like- the trigger return spring should be relubricated with oil or grease. This will prolong service life by reducing friction at the loop contact points and inhibit rust on the wire.
When I install our kits, I use lubriplate marine grease on the TRS before installing .
-Randy
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