View Full Version : D'Cruz v. BATFE (18yo to purchase handguns)
You can drive a car at 16, a potentially very lethal weapon. You can vote for our President at 18. You can volunteer to fight & die for your country at 18, and the government can force you to as well. You can enter into contracts legally, including marriage, and yet you can't purchase a handgun legally from a dealer due to the GCA 68'.
So when is an adult not really an adult? Obviously when it comes to protecting themselves and their families. A Lubbock, TX gentleman is attempting to change that and is getting help from the NRA. I hope he succeeds.
http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/news/local/story/hanguns-dcruz-federal/idTLFiEJ2EKeu3lz7rXtLA.cspx
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-washington-dc/nra-lawsuit-to-secure-right-of-18-year-olds-to-buy-handguns-from-dealers-makes-sense
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-knoxville/when-is-an-adult-not-really-an-adult
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7423
SW-Shooter
09-09-10, 15:18
I'm sorry I don't support this. I think 21 is the right age to buy a firearm. I could care less if it's a long gun or a handgun. Too many maturity issues with this kind of thing. I don't think an 18 year old can completely fathom the responsibilities of firearm ownership. Think about it, most 18 year olds are either still in, or just finishing high school. Sorry, this would get a no way from me.
I'm sorry I don't support this. I think 21 is the right age to buy a firearm. I could care less if it's a long gun or a handgun. Too many maturity issues with this kind of thing. I don't think an 18 year old can completely fathom the responsibilities of firearm ownership. Think about it, most 18 year olds are either still in, or just finishing high school. Sorry, this would get a no way from me.
You can be 18 years old and own NFA weapons.
GermanSynergy
09-09-10, 15:24
What about an 18 year old infantryman trusted by the .gov to hump a 240 in Helmand Province?
I'm sorry I don't support this. I think 21 is the right age to buy a firearm. I could care less if it's a long gun or a handgun. Too many maturity issues with this kind of thing. I don't think an 18 year old can completely fathom the responsibilities of firearm ownership. Think about it, most 18 year olds are either still in, or just finishing high school. Sorry, this would get a no way from me.
My Dad gave me my first pistol way before I was 18...i'm also sure any jr. high kid with enough coin can get one illegally anyway.
I have no problem with this...
Belmont31R
09-09-10, 15:36
I'm sorry I don't support this. I think 21 is the right age to buy a firearm. I could care less if it's a long gun or a handgun. Too many maturity issues with this kind of thing. I don't think an 18 year old can completely fathom the responsibilities of firearm ownership. Think about it, most 18 year olds are either still in, or just finishing high school. Sorry, this would get a no way from me.
I guess its a good thing our military is not made up of a bunch of under 21 year olds, people under 21 are not driving on the roads, not getting married, signing legal contracts, ect. I also didn't know on your 21st birthday a fairy comes around, and injects maturity so you wake up a responsible adult.
Sorry but I was driving around at 16 going to trap shooting matches, to the range, ect. At the time (and may still be) I could transport firearms for lawful purposes with a letter from my parents.
I'm sorry I don't support this. I think 21 is the right age to buy a firearm. I could care less if it's a long gun or a handgun. Too many maturity issues with this kind of thing. I don't think an 18 year old can completely fathom the responsibilities of firearm ownership. Think about it, most 18 year olds are either still in, or just finishing high school. Sorry, this would get a no way from me.
Thats just silly...
There are plenty of people over the age of 21 who are not mature enough to have guns. Hell, what about a 90something year old man who is bound to have an ND with a firearm, he can buy one.
Its stupid to say an 18 year old can defend a right he himself can not have.
I am sure there are 20 year olds driving tanks in the military. So you're saying at the age of 20 you can be responsible enough to opperate a $6.2M piece of hardware but you can't own a handgun?
I hope this is yet another win for our side on a 2A issue.
I'm sorry I don't support this. I think 21 is the right age to buy a firearm. I could care less if it's a long gun or a handgun. Too many maturity issues with this kind of thing. I don't think an 18 year old can completely fathom the responsibilities of firearm ownership. Think about it, most 18 year olds are either still in, or just finishing high school. Sorry, this would get a no way from me.
A 17 year old can enlist in the army and run belt-fed weapons.
Also, I would point out that we need to be consistent. I might think that people under age 21 cannot completely fathom the responsibilities of becoming a parent, but the courts have already ruled that procreation is a protected right, even though it does not have an amendment all to itself like the 2nd Amendment. So if 21 is the magic age, then it is the magic age for everything.
pilotguyo540
09-09-10, 16:03
I hope he succeeds. I had a handgun long before I turned 21 too. Some people will never be mature enough to own a firearm, breed, or hold down steady employment. You just cant stop it.
I fail to understand the logic behind this law in the first place. Really, its just a side arm. Rifles and shotguns are capable of much more destruction. So is a car for that matter. If my children are mature enough when they move out of the house they will all be armed and stocked with ammo.
SW-Shooter
09-09-10, 16:05
What about an 18 year old infantryman trusted by the .gov to hump a 240 in Helmand Province?
Completely different animal, they have received at least a rudimentary amount of training. There was a time when 18 year old service members could drink on post.
I think a majority of CIVILIANS under 21 should not have the ability to purchase handguns. I am a Veteran so I want to state I feel there should be an exclusion for the military, it is something that could very easily be applied.
I'm certain that nobody here wants urban youths to pimp walk down to the nearest gun store and pick up a Glock fotay. I think to avoid a black eye for gun owners, the 21 law should stay in place.
Completely different animal, they have received at least a rudimentary amount of training. There was a time when 18 year old service members could drink on post.
So rudimentary training is a prerequisite to exercise the 2nd amendment? Who decides what's considered rudimentary? Kind of sounds like European gun control to me. :smile:
I'm pretty sure, a 21 year old who's immature is just as immature as an immature 18 year old. Maturity doesn't have age limits.
Unfortunately the Constitution doesn't say only 18 and above. What if Congress passed a new law prohibiting old people from owning firearms due to concerns about Dementia or Alzheimers? Or people that have bad eyesight? Would you feel the same?
Some 18 year olds have grown up around guns all their life and learned from an early age.
As someone who enlisted into the military on my 17th birthday I happen to agree that if I can go overseas and get killed for my country I have the right to own a firearm like anyone else. That includes handguns.
I'm sorry I don't support this. I think 21 is the right age to buy a firearm. I could care less if it's a long gun or a handgun. Too many maturity issues with this kind of thing. I don't think an 18 year old can completely fathom the responsibilities of firearm ownership. Think about it, most 18 year olds are either still in, or just finishing high school. Sorry, this would get a no way from me.
SW-Shooter
09-09-10, 16:25
So rudimentary training is a prerequisite to exercise the 2nd amendment? Who decides what's considered rudimentary? Kind of sounds like European gun control to me. :smile:
I'm pretty sure, a 21 year old who's immature is just as immature as an immature 18 year old. Maturity doesn't have age limits.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't feel like getting into a pissing contest over this. Our gun rights are being taken away one by one, I really don't need to see more shootings on the news because we (gun owners) pushed for a bad law and it bites us in the ass.
We all know criminals will get their hands on the guns that they want. I'm all for making our streets safer and I don't want some testosterone laden teenager to think he's Dirty Harry because the law says he can buy a gun at 18. Age doesn't always equal maturity though, that's why I think 21 provides a better buffer for this argument.
The difference between a civilian that is 18 year old versus an 18 year old that is in the military is monumental in most cases. So that argument is moot.
It's pretty simple, the age of suffrage in a country should be the age some one has all the rights of an adult, seeing how in a free country the right to vote is what gives the populace power to prevent the government from depriving him/her of their liberty (ideally).
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't feel like getting into a pissing contest over this. Our gun rights are being taken away one by one, I really don't need to see more shootings on the news because we (gun owners) pushed for a bad law and it bites us in the ass.
We all know criminals will get their hands on the guns that they want. I'm all for making our streets safer and I don't want some testosterone laden teenager to think he's Dirty Harry because the law says he can buy a gun at 18. Age doesn't always equal maturity though, that's why I think 21 provides a better buffer for this argument.
The difference between a civilian that is 18 year old versus an 18 year old that is in the military is monumental in most cases. So that argument is moot.
Well the argument is moot I guess, since most states 18 is legal age to own a pistol, because they recognize 18 as the age of an adult. The only one who seems to not see 18 as an adult is the federal government when it comes to alcohol and firearms.
I guess they want to wait until you can buy your booze and guns at the same time, that way you can really have some fun. :D
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't feel like getting into a pissing contest over this. Our gun rights are being taken away one by one, I really don't need to see more shootings on the news because we (gun owners) pushed for a bad law and it bites us in the ass.
We all know criminals will get their hands on the guns that they want. I'm all for making our streets safer and I don't want some testosterone laden teenager to think he's Dirty Harry because the law says he can buy a gun at 18. Age doesn't always equal maturity though, that's why I think 21 provides a better buffer for this argument.
The difference between a civilian that is 18 year old versus an 18 year old that is in the military is monumental in most cases. So that argument is moot.
18 year olds can already own any firearm, including handguns. Some states (Indiana comes to mind) don't restrict 18 year olds from carrying their handguns in public. Blood is not running in the streets.
It's retarded that an 18 year old can legally buy a handgun from any resident of their state, but God forbid they want to buy one from an FFL.
EDIT: Hell of a slippery slope with the military vs. civilian stuff. There are plenty of incompetent jackasses in the United States Armed Forces, both above and below the age of 21. The oath of enlistment and even rudimentary basic military firearms training does not automatically create an innate sense of responsibility. By the same token, there are plenty of competent and responsible civilians under the age of 21.
On a side note, you mention that our gun rights are being taken away one by one, yet your stated POV in your first post in this thread would restrict them even more from what they currently are.
Sorry but I was driving around at 16 going to trap shooting matches, to the range, ect. At the time (and may still be) I could transport firearms for lawful purposes with a letter from my parents.
Unless it's changed, in NV you can legally purchase a long gun at 16.
Unfortunately you whole argument is flawed. An 18 year old can purchase an AR15 and in many states with open carry could walk down the street with it. He could also walk into a mall and start shooting people with it just as easily as he could with a handgun.
Stupidity isn't bound by age. There are plenty of 21 and over people who are dumbasses and shouldn't be allowed to vote either or own a firearm. The magic age to drink alcohol is 21 and yet every year dumb ass people get DUI's. Aren't they supposed to be responsible and know better?
You seem to want to have it your way. Veterans should be exempt while everyone else suffers. That is plain wrong. Should we also prohibit 16 year olds from practicing freedom of speech or religion because we don't like what they say?
Your post IMO is really rather alarming and elitist. The 2nd Amendment is for all of the people. White, black, brown or purple and regardless of age or gender.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't feel like getting into a pissing contest over this. Our gun rights are being taken away one by one, I really don't need to see more shootings on the news because we (gun owners) pushed for a bad law and it bites us in the ass.
We all know criminals will get their hands on the guns that they want. I'm all for making our streets safer and I don't want some testosterone laden teenager to think he's Dirty Harry because the law says he can buy a gun at 18. Age doesn't always equal maturity though, that's why I think 21 provides a better buffer for this argument.
The difference between a civilian that is 18 year old versus an 18 year old that is in the military is monumental in most cases. So that argument is moot.
Or course it should be 18. just like the drinking age should be.
Age has nothing to do with maturity; I kno wplenty of 30 year olds who are the same maturity level of some 12 and 13 year olds I know..
The right to bear arms; is just that; it should not be limited in any way shape or form.
I agree totally. And I predict that he will lose based on your post. Unless SCOTUS does something really outlandish.
I agree with all the views in your post, but the reply to the portion above that you'll hear is that Congress - or state legislatures, for that matter - may and do treat handguns differently because they are concealable and thus the lawmaking body may find that they are more prone to criminal misuse, etc. Same with open carry versus requiring a permit for concealment. An openly carried firearm is viewed as less mischievious.
Not saying that this is a good reason, but this is the main reason offered and often relied upon and I don't see a court overturning a 40-year-old law enacted by Congress that regulates interstate commerce (FFL sales) given the enormous precedent they'd be ignoring.
weird...you would think they would want to see transfers through an ffl vs. ANY other type just for tracking purposes.
Sorry but I was driving around at 16 going to trap shooting matches, to the range, ect. At the time (and may still be) I could transport firearms for lawful purposes with a letter from my parents.
It is still legal to do this in Florida.
Sorry to start a thread and run but I had things to do... Anyways, I don't think being .Mil provides any additional sort of maturity and I say that as a veteran of such. Some of the most asinine, dangerous, dipshit antics I've ever seen were by fellow military guys, and quite possibly myself, who were all older than 21.
I've also had the priviledge of shooting with one of the fellow member's sons on this board and I can tell you I wouldn't hesitate to have him own his own pistol, purchased through an FFL or not. I believe he's 14 years old, give or take a little, and he shows a greater maturity and safety when handling guns than I've seen out of most adults who "know" guns.
Furthermore, any hood rat who wants a Glock .40 can simply purchase one on the black market with no fear of repercussions. Time to head to a b-day party, have a great night!
ForTehNguyen
09-09-10, 18:57
shall not be infringed. Lets make it where you cant cuss until youre 18?
We should pick an age of majority and grants all rights and privileges of an adult with it.
SW-Shooter
09-09-10, 19:05
Sorry to start a thread and run but I had things to do... Anyways, I don't think being .Mil provides any additional sort of maturity and I say that as a veteran of such. Some of the most asinine, dangerous, dipshit antics I've ever seen were by fellow military guys, and quite possibly myself, who were all older than 21. I never saw such antics when weapons were put into the equation, but with that aside I agree my former .mil buddies could do some pretty stupid crap.
I've also had the priviledge of shooting with one of the fellow member's sons on this board and I can tell you I wouldn't hesitate to have him own his own pistol, purchased through an FFL or not. I believe he's 14 years old, give or take a little, and he shows a greater maturity and safety when handling guns than I've seen out of most adults who "know" guns.My eleven year old son is very responsible, but not everyone falls into the same category as these kids. They are the exception to the rule. We have to look at a majority of 18 year olds as a whole and take into consideration how tempting it would be for a teenager to walk around with an easy concealable weapon to either look cool or just be a thug.
Furthermore, any hood rat who wants a Glock .40 can simply purchase one on the black market with no fear of repercussions. Very true, but I don't want to give the anti's any more ammunition. The Vtech shooter bought his guns legally(sort of), look at how much that damaged the firearms community as a whole. Do we really need to give them a freebie?Time to head to a b-day party, have a great night!
Have fun, Be safe!
SW-Shooter
09-09-10, 19:09
shall not be infringed. Lets make it where you cant cuss until youre 18?
Okay let's give felons guns.
I am a firm supporter of the 2nd Amendment. There has to be some common sense regulation, or there would be utter chaos.
ForTehNguyen
09-09-10, 19:11
you dont think felons that truly want a gun arent getting them already?
Belmont31R
09-09-10, 19:21
Have fun, Be safe!
How do you stop giving someone who doesn't believe in citizen gun ownership ammunitution to use against you?
The only way is to not own guns, and not allow private gun ownership.
Do you think caving in to them is going to stop their efforts? Do you think you are safe because you are a grown adult, and offering up the young gun owners is going to keep them from going after what you have?
Just when do you draw the line? Their line is EVERY gun in America. Once citizens can be disarmed then we dont need armed cops (see the UK). Once the cops don't need guns then we don't need the military, and we can be a "peace" loving nation like they want who sends its wealth to 3rd world countries via the UN (see UN thread lol).
I find it pretty shameful soemone would throw someone else under the bus under the guise of them being able to keep their rights. Why not disallow guns for blacks? They, as a a race, have the highest rate of criminalization out of any racial group in the US. Why not throw them under the bus? Age, race, sex, religion, social disposition? Whats the difference?
variablebinary
09-09-10, 19:39
[B][U]
I'm certain that nobody here wants urban youths to pimp walk down to the nearest gun store and pick up a Glock fotay. I think to avoid a black eye for gun owners, the 21 law should stay in place.
The right to bear arms extends to everyone. Even "Urban Youths" provided they can pass NICS, which is the same rules for everyone.
Or does the right to bear arms only apply to okies from muskogee, and suburban yuppies?
Okay let's give felons guns.
Slight side line:
Legislatures have been reducing the thresholds at which people can be convicted of felonies. The felonization of more and more offenses, and the startling rate at which it's happening, makes the label "convicted felon" nebulous at best and often meaningless.
(See also: "registered sex offender.")
There should be greater contemplation of which felony offenses should disqualify people, and how long the disqualification should apply. In many cases, there should also be automatic rights restorations.
Belmont31R
09-09-10, 19:54
Slight side line:
Legislatures have been reducing the thresholds at which people can be convicted of felonies. The felonization of more and more offenses, and the startling rate at which it's happening, makes the label "convicted felon" nebulous at best and often meaningless.
(See also: "registered sex offender.")
There should be greater contemplation of which felony offenses should disqualify people, and how long the disqualification should apply. In many cases, there should also be automatic rights restorations.
Such as my wife's uncle. Arrested for dealer lever amount of pot, and after he completed his sentence it was reduced to a misdemeanor with his felony conviction being expunged. Now he can own a gun, and even got a UPIN from FBI/NICS.
And yes you are right. Felony its a rather broad term anymore. Once reserved for very serious crimes a felony today, just by the label, doesn't even mean a person did anything quite bad. I bet we all commit a felony pretty regularly without even knowing it most of the time.
SW-Shooter
09-09-10, 20:00
There are many side and opinions to this argument, unfortunately this is not the administration that we can look to for fair and ethical decisions. They are encroaching on our existing 2A rights on a daily basis, I just think we need to pick the battles worth fighting. If we choose to fight them all we will lose those that aren't as aware as us. Remember Americans aren't as steadfast as they once were. It's hard to keep them focused on the big picture, they play checkers not chess.
As for urban youths, a very good friend has an 18 year old son that falls into this category and he stated to me his son will never possess a firearm in his house. He's going through a tough time with his wife right now, she's a fervent "my baby didn't do nothing" type mother. I never meant this a statement of race, just culture.
I guess I'd rather save the resources for critical anti gun legislation. Just this guys opinion.
Moose-Knuckle
09-09-10, 20:16
An American (with their parents co-sign) can join one of the branches of the Armed Services at the ripe old age of 17 and die for their country. An American can't buy long guns or long gun ammunition until 18, he/she can't buy a hand gun or a beer until 21 and they can't rent a car untill they are 25. :confused:
At the age of 18 my dad loaned me an M1 Carbine to keep in the trunk of my car. I purchased a 590 the same year. I was the same person at 18 as I was at 21 when I purchased my Ruger 22/45. There are 40 something year olds that shouldn't be allowed to drive an automobile or purchase alcohol, much less have the opportunity to legally purchase a firearm. :rolleyes:
I enlisted at 17. Went to war at 18 and was a combat vetran weeks after my 19th birthday. I was pissed I could not buy a beer at a Red Six game while home on leave. There should at least be an exception for millitary folks. I know on base 18 year olds were allowed to drink at the "beer garden" AKA enlisted club.
I only went a few times.
and they can't rent a car untill they are 25
I love that I can't rent a car (at least not without paying exorbitant fees in some cases) yet I can rent a $300,000 airplane and won't be charged a dime higher than an airline pilot with 10,000hrs. And I've been renting such aircraft since I was 17.
I have zero tolerance for the types that think age discrimination is a good idea. Thanks, it kept me disarmed daily for three years after I could buy a .50 cal.
Turning 21 didn't magically imbue me with more responsibility, and every young asshat I've met has stayed an asshat upon turning 21.
Completely different animal, they have received at least a rudimentary amount of training. There was a time when 18 year old service members could drink on post.
I think a majority of CIVILIANS under 21 should not have the ability to purchase handguns. I am a Veteran so I want to state I feel there should be an exclusion for the military, it is something that could very easily be applied.
I'm certain that nobody here wants urban youths to pimp walk down to the nearest gun store and pick up a Glock fotay. I think to avoid a black eye for gun owners, the 21 law should stay in place.
As if the military magically makes people more mature. Hell, most 19 year olds in the military are less mature than 19 year olds in the private sector. They don't grow up until they get some seniority.
Belmont31R
09-10-10, 01:48
I love that I can't rent a car (at least not without paying exorbitant fees in some cases) yet I can rent a $300,000 airplane and won't be charged a dime higher than an airline pilot with 10,000hrs. And I've been renting such aircraft since I was 17.
I have zero tolerance for the types that think age discrimination is a good idea. Thanks, it kept me disarmed daily for three years after I could buy a .50 cal.
Turning 21 didn't magically imbue me with more responsibility, and every young asshat I've met has stayed an asshat upon turning 21.
Heh I used to drive my dads old 80's something Ranger around our horse ranch with a harrow dragging behind it at like 13 and 14. Shot a bunch of ground squirrels, and wild cats that used to kill our live stock. I guess the idea of a youngster having some responsibility is lost on society now. I also grew up as the man of the house because my dad was working overseas so much.
Both my wife and I actually talked about this sort of thing because her teen sister has ZERO responsibility. Her mom has to fight with her just to do her laundry, she doesn't have a job, and is basically failing out of HS. Her mom treated my wife a lot differently but that has somehow been lost with my SIL.
Boys are not raised to be men much anymore, and girls are not raised to be women. My wife even got pissed at her mom when she realized I was a much better cook than she is, and her mom never taught her how to buy groceries or make a meal. When we were first dating she would go buy groceries, and come back with bags full of junk food and freezer food. It took me a while to teach her how to make a meal plan, and buy things to cook at home. She does much better now, and has all our food organized...we can plan dinners out, plan bulk shopping at Costco, ect. I still cook at a lot but she doesn't consider a freezer box a "dinner" like her mom does. Now I just need to get through her that an old fashioned mop works better than any of the new shit. She comes home with all these electric floor cleaner things. Some hot water, mop solution, an old fashioned mop, a buck, and sink work better than anything else. Thats one good thing I learned from the Army, and mopping our entire house is "easy" to me. :cool:
But then people always used to tell me I was born 50-100 years too late. I have 4YO twin boys, and they will be raised to respect women, and only go for women who respect themselves. They will be also raised around guns, they will get to drive before 16, and learn what hard work is. It really does make you a more rounded person later in life. This new kids who grow up without learning anything are a problem. Society has really become so easy and convenient people are growing up without respect to anything. Never a real hard days work in their life, never done much camping, fishing, hunting, ext. I already feel like an old man I swear... I even get pissed at the so called men around here....the majority who cant even mow their own lawns. The MAJORITY dont even do it themselves anymore.
Either make is all 18 or make it ALL 21. If you can be conscripted to carry a gun to protect the county, then the country should allow you to carry a gun to protect yourself.
If you're not mature enough to have a drink or purchase a pistol then you sure as hell are not mature enough to be drafted and sent off to war in some foreign land.
arizonaranchman
09-10-10, 09:47
What about an 18 year old infantryman trusted by the .gov to hump a 240 in Helmand Province?
True, but you're talking about an 18 yr old trained by the military and transformed into something that the average 18 yr old playing video games on Mom's couch isn't.
The modern generation of kids isn't what they were in past generations.
I have mixed feelings on the 18 vs 21 thing. I lean towards 18, but part of me wonders as far as things like CCW at that age. Hunting, hiking, shooting is one thing, but maturity issues are huge at those ages and grow rapidly in those years.
Military service/training is an entirely different matter. Most of the time a kid who enters the military on day One is defintely NOT the same person after he's been thru training.
pilotguyo540
09-10-10, 09:56
True, but you're talking about an 18 yr old trained by the military and transformed into something that the average 18 yr old playing video games on Mom's couch isn't.
The modern generation of kids isn't what they were in past generations.
I have mixed feelings on the 18 vs 21 thing. I lean towards 18, but part of me wonders as far as things like CCW at that age. Hunting, hiking, shooting is one thing, but maturity issues are huge at those ages and grow rapidly in those years.
Military service/training is an entirely different matter. Most of the time a kid who enters the military on day One is defintely NOT the same person after he's been thru training.
I have to disagree. The military is just as full of retards as the rest of society. I don't believe that kids these days are any more or less mature than we were at that age. It sure as hell seems that way sometimes, but that's because of our perception. It is easier to see faults in others than in ourselves.
I believe the second amendment applies to every ****tard out there whether we like it or not. Disarmament is censorship. Legal adults should not be censored.
True, but you're talking about an 18 yr old trained by the military and transformed into something that the average 18 yr old playing video games on Mom's couch isn't.
The modern generation of kids isn't what they were in past generations.
I have mixed feelings on the 18 vs 21 thing. I lean towards 18, but part of me wonders as far as things like CCW at that age. Hunting, hiking, shooting is one thing, but maturity issues are huge at those ages and grow rapidly in those years.
Military service/training is an entirely different matter. Most of the time a kid who enters the military on day One is defintely NOT the same person after he's been thru training.
Of course they aren't the same person after basic training...that said, I don't really accept the notion that your average 18 - 20 year old gun-owning junior enlisted man is significantly more capable of handling the responsibility of carrying a concealed firearm than your average 18 - 20 year old gun-owning civilian.
Once again, there are several states that issue licenses at age 18 (glancing at handgunlaw.us, Alabama, Vermont, Indiana, Montana...). Blood is not running in the streets.
I am a Veteran so I want to state I feel there should be an exclusion for the military...
I'm tired of "special classes" in this society. Either you're an adult, or you're not. I know plenty of 30+ year old people who I feel would be better served if they never touched a firearm again. Check youtube for corroboration.
I started carrying a firearm at 19. My father had to purchase it for me but I was still able to legally carry it. The law is stupid. We put arbitrary ages on laws and have no reasonable reason to do it.
Society is a strange beast.
The law is stupid. We put arbitrary ages on laws and have no reasonable reason to do it.
Society is a strange beast.
Without Question!
SW-Shooter
09-10-10, 18:47
Just a reminder for those that use the you can vote at 18 argument. This was changed in 1971, Nineteen hundred seventy-one. It was changed because of the Vietnam War.
Just a reminder for those that use the you can vote at 18 argument. This was changed in 1971, Nineteen hundred seventy-one. It was changed because of the Vietnam War.
Ok, and your point is? Women couldn't vote nationwide until 1920. Blacks didn't fully realize the right to vote until roughly the same time as your example.
SW-Shooter
09-10-10, 19:21
Ok, and your point is? Women couldn't vote nationwide until 1920. Blacks didn't fully realize the right to vote until roughly the same time as your example.
I was merely trying to make the point that if they can change the voting age for service members, why can't they change the federal firearms laws. But I guess I didn't just come out and say that.:alcoholic:
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