View Full Version : M&P15 - Quality or Junk
sjmills6901
09-10-10, 17:21
I own a M&P15 and so far so good! I was pleased to see how it fared on the excellent M4 Carbine spreadsheet provided on this forum. It appears to have a lot going for it. I have a couple of questions:
1. Overall quality thoughts?
2. What changes, if any, would you make to improve this rifle if you already owned one?
I look forward to hearing your honest opinions. Don't concern yourself with hurting my feelings!!
Littlelebowski
09-10-10, 17:26
Quality. You can improve upon it by buying ammunition, magazines, and a carbine training class.
Quality for sure. I have done some "upgrades" to mine, but not because of any malfunctions or other issues. It's a great gun and has run 100%.
changes I made were: BCM BCG, Geissele SSA trigger, Spikes buffer.
I have not owned one but have spent quite a bit of time with friends that bought them. I think they are a pretty good value for the buck. They offer a good solid product. In my own, probably biased opinion they are right below the Colt, DD, BCM, LMT, but not by much. I would buy one before I would but the Armalites, Bushmasters, RRA's, DPMS, etc. I really like some of their packages.
Quality for sure. I have done some "upgrades" to mine, but not because of any malfunctions or other issues. It's a great gun and has run 100%.
changes I made were: BCM BCG, Geissele SSA trigger, Spikes buffer.
Just wondering why you switched out the BCG? The S&W has all the right check marks, the only difference is one is an auto BCG and one enhanced semi.
devildogljb
09-10-10, 18:45
quality ar all the way i have not had one problem with mine. I bought the standard set up, the only thing i changed was put a rail system and put a ctr stock on and a mbus
How long have you had the gun? How much have you shot it? What do you like or dislike about it so far.
Personally, I haven't had any real issues with any of the components (early M&P15T). Switched out the barrel to a BCM 11.5, added some furniture, but I haven't had any problems with the internals.
My next thought would be to pick up a BCM BCG, for reliability, but so far I haven't seen anything in mine that would suggest parts breakage or issues. More of an "if/then" purchase.
ThirdWatcher
09-10-10, 18:50
Good rifle. The BCG is good to go. I did replace the buffer assembly with an H2 buffer and Chrome Silicon buffer spring (based on Grant's advice) and it is really a sweet rifle. :)
blksn955.o
09-10-10, 19:09
I picked up mine as a birthday gift to myself last month and although I have only shot 200 or so rounds at this time no issues.
I thought I read (on here maybe) the new or newer M&P15 has a LMT BCG? For the most part were it places on "the chart" it looks like a very good unit...and for the cost (picked mine up for $745 out of pocket) hard to beat. I dont think anyone should/will say its better than a Colt but maybe one of best "big" name/volume brand units behind the Colt assuming DD, LMT, and other "top tier" brands sell less volume. The 1:9 twist for me is not a big issue since 99% of the ammo around me is 55 grain anyway.
I think my next purchase will be a new grip, co-worker has a magpul on his BM and I shot it last weekend and it feels nice. That or a Hogue(sp?) grip. Also going with an H buffer but probably not right away.
For my use, fun gun/plinking, home protection behind the Glock 22, and maybe some hunting if I ever get back into that again...well under 1k rnds a year and a non professional/work use environment it is a great fit.
Like said earlier a training class is probably the best thing to know tactics, fundamentals, and use of the weapon. I am really thinking about taking one (after I get my CCW) at a local range that is opening up...400rnd day on top of instruction is a great day.
Just wondering why you switched out the BCG? The S&W has all the right check marks, the only difference is one is an auto BCG and one enhanced semi.
i wanted an Auto bcg and the staking on the S&W was not done very well. it's now my spare.
I give it high marks. My two duty guns are a 6920 and an M&P 15. If you read enough, you would think they are not even in the same league. I have used the M&P while transitioning our department over to patrol rifles and it has held up quite well.
Overall I've been impressed with the Smith...
I have the "FT" model, and it is great. I would buy another M&P15 tomorrow if I had to.
devildogljb
09-10-10, 20:26
i wanted an Auto bcg and the staking on the S&W was not done very well. it's now my spare.
My staking was done pretty well, and havnt heard too many people complain about it, guess you just got a bad one that got threw the cracks
blksn955.o
09-10-10, 20:42
My staking was done pretty well, and havnt heard too many people complain about it, guess you just got a bad one that got threw the cracks
He may have gotten an early stag model...the pics posted of those do show a weaker stake. There may have been some early in house S&W that went out until the issue was resolved.
Interesting. I thought most M&P 15s are offered in 1x9" twists with 4140 barrel steel. Curious why the high praise for them while most people poo-poo the barrel material and twist rates.
I'm not stirring the pot, just wondering. Personally, I would love to have one of the M&P15 VTAC rifles.
Failure2Stop
09-10-10, 20:57
The only thing I really don't like on most S&W guns is the 1:9 barrel. I would be much more likely to recommend them if they were all 1:8 or 1:7.
As it is, I know that there are some people out there that insist on 1:9 barrels out of misinformation or ignorance, and S&W's purpose is to sell guns, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it.
From the ones I have dealt with they demonstrate fewer issues than RRA, BM, or Stag.
I give it high marks. My two duty guns are a 6920 and an M&P 15. If you read enough, you would think they are not even in the same league. I have used the M&P while transitioning our department over to patrol rifles and it has held up quite well.
Overall I've been impressed with the Smith...
Yep - read and read, and you pretty much think they are taboo - unacceptable, 'unmentionable'.
They DO have mostly all the needed features.
I suppose if you are doing much full auto and burst fire, the barrel may not hold up past 10,000 rds. And, forget the longer and heavier tracer ammo. But other than that...
Some would have you believe that 1:9 is anethema. But, so many 'nonspec' rifles use it - why? Buy some bulk ammo, or even handload cheaper bullets. Are they over 70 gr and long like the latest military tracers? Ooops - maybe someone has a reason. Maybe S&W is making a decent gun. Maybe they chose 1:9 to accomodate the more average user.
Interesting. I thought most M&P 15s are offered in 1x9" twists with 4140 barrel steel. Curious why the high praise for them while most people poo-poo the barrel material and twist rates.
I'm not stirring the pot, just wondering. Personally, I would love to have one of the M&P15 VTAC rifles.
because they are mil-spec zombies.
HawaiianBob
09-10-10, 21:05
On the high side of the mid quality AR's. You could do better with DD, LMT, etc. But you have a good rifle.
I would say a G2 light and Aimpoint optic would be all the upgrades you need.
Also I agree with training if you have not received any quality formal training.
You can do a lot more to an AR but after all the time and money spent I think it makes more sense sinking money into a higher quality rifle. In the long run it gives you more bang for your buck.
My staking was done pretty well, and havnt heard too many people complain about it, guess you just got a bad one that got threw the cracks
it was not terrible, i just drank the BCM kool aid and now i sleep better at night. :D
What the heck, here is a pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/Twoj238/March2010044.jpg
As far as the 1 in 9. Yes it shoots our issued ammos 55 grn and 62 grn well enough. It is a semi auto so burst/full auto is out. For LE work it holds its own...
I built an AR right before the M&P came out. At a range session a buddy brought his M&P15 and I was thoroughly impressed. Quality for sure.
crusader377
09-10-10, 22:16
I have two friends that own a M&P 15. It is not quite up to a Colt/BCM/ DD/ etc. but it is a very good rifle and a great value for the money (CDNN is currently selling them for $699 after the S&W rebate). For the vast majority of civilian and even LE users it will do everything that you need it to do. The only two minor issues IMO are the 1:9 twist which limits you to around 70 grain bullets and the 4140 barrel steel. Most civilian users mainly shoot 55gr or 62gr rounds so the 1:9 twist is not a big issue and the 4140 barrel is only at a disadvantage during rapid fire (full auto/3rd burst) due to lower heat tolerances on the barrel. A 4140 barrel will hold up to any amount of semi-auto fire a civilian can shoot and so the 4140 is not a big technical issue for a civilian shooter.
2000 + rounds of 55 grain stuff through this one, been great with no issues at all so far.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv254/AllPackedUp/Images/SW-MP15-MOE-a.jpg
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-11-10, 08:34
I've got two of the new M&P15TS rifles and have been very impressed. I've done a little review here about the rifles and will update the review after I run a carbine class on 9/25. I'll be heading out on Monday to do some training on my own, but so far during sighing in and playing with the rifle on the indoor range, I have run about 250 trouble free rounds through them and shot one IDPA multi gun match with very good results. No malfunctions at all. Finish is very nice, the Pmags that come with them are a nice touch.
My M&P 15x (born Feb 09) did not have a properly staked gas key, Va Arms fixed that. Also the M4 feed ramps were not properly cut and there was a lot of play between the upper and lower.
I contacted S&W by email and got a very fast response. They issued a shipping label and away it went to the factory. It arrived back home in short order with a note stating it was brought up to S&W specs which meant a new fitted upper. The M4 ramps are great and the fit is tight as a tick. Great customer service from step 1 to completion.
I realize that it is not a Tier One rifle but it has met my needs so far and I look forward to running it till the wheels fall off.
To reiterate what 's been said here: Definitely one of the high-quality mid-range AR options I'd recommend.
As with most rifles, you get different quality in different runs. S&W doesn't make most of the parts, so some runs will be better than others depending on the supplier. They make enough of them (high volume production) that they learn quickly what does and doesn't work and fix it.
My better half has an early M&P15-T which she adores and has served her well through a number of classes and countless range sessions (thousands of rounds).
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/ArclightPB/LadyJulyPic5.jpg
The only thing I'd either swap out or have on hand is a spare BCG, which I'd probably recommend for anyone. The old BCGs S&W used weren't very well staked though, as I said, Ms. Arclight's one has worked just fine through fairly heavy use despite this.
To be fair, the BCG isn't that bad. Here it is compared to my Noveske's BCG:
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/ArclightPB/BCG_Comparison.jpg
AZ-Renegade
09-11-10, 10:15
I have a standard M&P15 and a 15T.
They have both been great guns although I've only used them for training at the range.
The fit and finish on the 15T isn't as nice as my older standard M&P, but they both shoot great and their accuracy is decent.
That being said, my next AR/M4 purchase will be a BCM middy.
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/az-renegade/Firearms030.jpg
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/az-renegade/Firearms017.jpg
blksn955.o
09-11-10, 10:33
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/ArclightPB/LadyJulyPic5.jpg
To be fair, the BCG isn't that bad. Here it is compared to my Noveske's BCG:
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/ArclightPB/BCG_Comparison.jpg
My M&P15 is staked like the Noveske's in your pic. The BCG of the S&W you posted has the date of 2007 I think that is the time of the early Stag models. Everything I have read is the post stag models are mostly in house now.
I have an MP15 OR thats had a lot of external stuff added/swapped (pics in the AR pic thread), only internal mod was had PD armorer put in a match trigger.
The same armorer has several MP rifles, including an early MP15 T. He uses it as a hog gun at his ranch and just loaned it to another officer for SWAT school. I've used mine at our PD's AR training courses, as have the instructors. This was training not practice or qualification. They've all held up very very well.
I have a standard M&P15 that I traded for in late 2006. I like it and it has been very reliable but not without problems.
After finding this site I discovered the staking was not up to par. Grant at G&R fixed me up there. Also early on I had a problem with shooting high. I emailed S&W with questions and they requested I return it so they could look at it. Right away they issued a recall tag (or whatever they call it) and a few weeks later it was returned better than new. It now shoots great. I appreciate a company that appears determined to make things right, no matter how trivial.
If I were to change anything it would be the barrel twist, as others here have pointed out. Overall it may not be on par with Colt, BCM, etc. but a good rifle and value in my opinion.
My M&P15X has eaten several types and weights of ammo both steel and brass with zero malfunctions. No complaints at all. I know Travis(Magpul) had good things to say about the M&P rifles they abused as well.
Kentucky Cop
09-11-10, 14:18
I ran a 15 T on duty for awhile and it ran great. They are for sure no slouch in the game. I believe that the new 15TS is out and has a 1/7 twist along with the VTAC model that is "coming" out soon. Lots of options to choose from.
JFRUELER and his North Carolina State Troopers run a shit ton of M&P rifles. I think at last date they were in the area of 500-600 rifles on the road. They like them so much they switched over from Beretta's to M&P .357's. I'd say they are GTG..
PS- there is a ton of threads on the Smith rifles if you hit the "search button" up to next to calendar.
KY COP
I've got two myself and have purchased several at work; they've all run fine and look properly put together.
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-11-10, 19:38
My M&P15 is staked like the Noveske's in your pic. The BCG of the S&W you posted has the date of 2007 I think that is the time of the early Stag models. Everything I have read is the post stag models are mostly in house now.
Yep... My 2010 BCG from S&W looks just like the Noveske in the photo. You wouldn't be able to tell a difference from a current photo.
not a great pic, but here's my factory (2008ish) m&p15a bcg. like i said it's not terrible, but i wanted a fa bcg anyway. so i made the swap.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2643/img0826a.jpg
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-11-10, 20:56
Here's a photo of one of my 2010 BCG and how it's staked.
http://gallery.me.com/jason_alicia/100413/DSCN4726/web.jpg?ver=12842554580001
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-11-10, 20:57
My M&P15 is staked like the Noveske's in your pic. The BCG of the S&W you posted has the date of 2007 I think that is the time of the early Stag models. Everything I have read is the post stag models are mostly in house now.
I think that 2007 production was when Stag was making the rifle for S&W. I think they switched in 2008 to making their own.
I bought one a couple of years ago. Lots of rounds, no problems. However,I did dremel down that damn lump on the grip. Wouldn't of mattered what gun it was on, just don't like em.:D
I bought a M&P15 MOE in Feb of 09. I really only started shooting it this summer. I picked it because I got a good deal on it, the twist rate, and it met my department standards. My department's duty ammo is 55 grain and they issue S&Ws as well.
I replaced the carbine buffer with an H buffer, reinforced the gas key staking and added a light, sling and RDS. This gun has gone through two training classes without a glitch. I'm VERY pleased with my purchase.
Suwannee Tim
09-12-10, 09:02
There was a review of the Smith and Wesson rifles in a recent American Rifleman, they rated it highly. But then, every gun they publish an article they rate highly.......hhhhhhhmmm.
I have one and it has worked well enough though I don't have a whole lot of shots through it. But then I was at the range last week and there was a guy with a S&W piston gun and the taper pin came out of the gas block. Ooops! We got it back together. He told me that it had already been back to S&W for a FTE issue......hhhhhmmmmm.
American Rifleman has never reviewed a gun that they do not like and they are obsessed with Springfield XD's
Suwannee Tim
09-12-10, 09:30
I don't know why TAR would be obsessed with the XD. After all it ain't like their magazine is bulging with Springfield Armory ads.........bulging with SA ads.........hhhhhhhmmmmm.:sarcastic:
Definatly Quality. I've had three of these rifles and yes they're not quite as nice as my DD, i've never had a failure even when i've ran them pretty hard. S&W did a good job and customer service is second to none. Definalty an upgrade over rra, bush, dpms,stag.
ztf HITMAN
09-13-10, 20:40
Okay, I don't have my M&P 15A anymore, but it ran great for the two years I had it. Many different types of ammo...55 FMJs, M856 Tracers, 69 SMK Black Hills, 75gr. TAPs, 62 FMJs, brass and steel case...Good, accurate, and dependable. That's my $.02.
I have ran mine thru Tigerswan class, 4 Appleseeds, and several thousand rounds this year working drills and transitions.
Saturday I started with a 100yd Aggregate, followed by a 1/2 and 1/2 drill, then moved to the KD range and fired all the way out to 400. All the KD groups were less than 4 moa. I run an Eotech XPS2-2.
The only malfuction this gun has ever had was a single failure to fire. Ever.
Bottom line, it is well within quality standards for the average to slightly above average Shooter.
I bought a M&P 15X about a year & a half ago. I think I paid $769 with my LE discount. I have maybe 4000 rounds through it & haven't had a single problem with it. A 1:7 twist barrel would be nice, but I shoot mostly 53 & 55gr so it's not a big deal.
The only accessories on it are an EAOTech XPS, Vickers 2 point sling & Magpul rail covers. I might get an Ergo (or similar) grip for it, but that's it, (I keep telling myself).
I'm not an AR expert, but they're a good solid gun. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
Many different types of ammo...55 FMJs, M856 Tracers, 69 SMK Black Hills, 75gr. TAPs, 62 FMJs
So much for the average person to make a necessity out of 1:7...
ztf HITMAN
09-14-10, 21:28
Many different types of ammo...55 FMJs, M856 Tracers, 69 SMK Black Hills, 75gr. TAPs, 62 FMJs
So much for the average person to make a necessity out of 1:7...
Heh...I didn't say the 75gr's were terribly accurate. They were about 3-4 MOA. My 1:9 shot 55 and 62gr the best. Even the 69gr BHA Match ammo wasn't that accurate. The gun was a sweet shooter with the lighter loads, though.
I figured I would add my 2 cents here. I just purchased a S&W M&P OR rifle back in july from CDNN BRAND NEW. I got it on sale for $700 - $100 S&W rebate check (still waiting for it).
I havn't gotten around to taking it to the range yet but by looking it over it looks very well made & put together. Doesn't look like it will have any problems & from what everyone here says about the customer service they seem top notch even if there is a problem.
These are one of the best bang for the buck ar's right now. At $600 BNIB for a AR from a reliable company a deal like that can't be beat.
I'm looking forward to a torture test with this thing. I'm going to shoot everything from the dirty dirt wolf to rem, winchester, AE, Hornady, & Federal to see what all feeds reliably.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1439/dsc00730al.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/dsc00730al.jpg/)
I put a DD Omega 7.0 rail on it with a grip pod & troy flip up front & rear sights (both tritrium). Next thing (besides ammo) will be a aimpoint micro.
I even saved the ad to my comp. Says the ad is good through 10-3-10. If anyones interested i'm sure they're still available & S&W has the $100 rebate still active on there website.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1286/cdnnad.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/cdnnad.jpg/)
Heh...I didn't say the 75gr's were terribly accurate. They were about 3-4 MOA. My 1:9 shot 55 and 62gr the best. Even the 69gr BHA Match ammo wasn't that accurate. The gun was a sweet shooter with the lighter loads, though.
Thanks even more - my son has a M&P with 1:9, I have a DD 1:7 - so we'll look at 62 gr for now...
I own a M&P15 and so far so good! I was pleased to see how it fared on the excellent M4 Carbine spreadsheet provided on this forum. It appears to have a lot going for it. I have a couple of questions:
1. Overall quality thoughts?
2. What changes, if any, would you make to improve this rifle if you already owned one?
I look forward to hearing your honest opinions. Don't concern yourself with hurting my feelings!!
I rank AR's into 3 groups. They are as follows:
Tier/Level 1: Colt, FN
Tier/Level 2: LMT, BCM, KAC, DD
Tier/Level 3: BM, RRA, S&W
Now with that said, I put the S&W ahead of the BM/RRA crowd for certain.
Ways to improve the gun? Install an H2 buffer (as they are slightly over gassed). That is really the only thing I would do to it.
C4
I picked up mine as a birthday gift to myself last month and although I have only shot 200 or so rounds at this time no issues.
I thought I read (on here maybe) the new or newer M&P15 has a LMT BCG? For the most part were it places on "the chart" it looks like a very good unit...and for the cost (picked mine up for $745 out of pocket) hard to beat. I dont think anyone should/will say its better than a Colt but maybe one of best "big" name/volume brand units behind the Colt assuming DD, LMT, and other "top tier" brands sell less volume. The 1:9 twist for me is not a big issue since 99% of the ammo around me is 55 grain anyway.
I think my next purchase will be a new grip, co-worker has a magpul on his BM and I shot it last weekend and it feels nice. That or a Hogue(sp?) grip. Also going with an H buffer but probably not right away.
For my use, fun gun/plinking, home protection behind the Glock 22, and maybe some hunting if I ever get back into that again...well under 1k rnds a year and a non professional/work use environment it is a great fit.
Like said earlier a training class is probably the best thing to know tactics, fundamentals, and use of the weapon. I am really thinking about taking one (after I get my CCW) at a local range that is opening up...400rnd day on top of instruction is a great day.
Older S&W's came with an LMT BCG's. LMT could not meet their QTY reqs so they went to MB for their BCG's. These are very good BCG's and there is ZERO NEED to change them out.
C4
Rmplstlskn
09-15-10, 09:57
JUNK! Please send to me for safe disposal...
Suwannee Tim
09-15-10, 16:41
Ways to improve the gun? Install an H2 buffer (as they are slightly over gassed).
How do you know the rifle is overgassed?
How do you know the rifle is overgassed?
Because I measured it and I worked on their rifle program. ;)
C4
Love mine. I've had some problems with it though that I am not to proud to share. M4Carbine's community is what helped me work through and solve them, and now I am more then happy with my rifle.
Basic diagnosis is that the rifle's chamber was a little tight. I sent it back to SW and they were awesome!!! The biggest upgrade I did was an H Buffer, and now I am more then happy with how it runs.
Fried Chicken Blowout
09-15-10, 18:24
Older S&W's came with an LMT BCG's. LMT could not meet their QTY reqs so they went to MB for their BCG's. These are very good BCG's and there is ZERO NEED to change them out.
C4
Who is "MB" that Grant is referring to? I own a couple of S&W M&P15s and want to get my lingo correct...:sarcastic:
Heavy Metal
09-15-10, 18:34
Older S&W's came with an LMT BCG's. LMT could not meet their QTY reqs so they went to MB for their BCG's. These are very good BCG's and there is ZERO NEED to change them out.
C4
Grant, don't you mean CMT/Stag?
Who is "MB" that Grant is referring to? I own a couple of S&W M&P15s and want to get my lingo correct...:sarcastic:
MB = MicroBest (a company you most likely have never heard of and they do not sell parts to the public/consumer).
C4
Grant, don't you mean CMT/Stag?
No. S&W stopped doing business some time ago.
C4
Love mine, 500+ round different loads, manufacturers, and mags no stoppages.
Heavy Metal
09-15-10, 19:28
No. S&W stopped doing business some time ago.
C4
I'm confused. You said LMT. I thought the early BCG's S&W had problems with were CMT and not LMT?
Did they have a problem with LMT too? I was not aware they had used parts from them.
I'm confused. You said LMT. I thought the early BCG's S&W had problems with were CMT and not LMT?
Did they have a problem with LMT too? I was not aware they had used parts from them.
The first BCG's were CMT. Then they switched to LMT.
Currently, they get them from MB.
C4
Heavy Metal
09-15-10, 19:49
Thanks, I understand now.
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