View Full Version : POF or ACR...
Hey question for ya guys. Recently i did a job for a guy and he wants to trade me either a POF P415 or an ACR Basic for the work. Both are NIB, he says he just collects guns and never fires them so who knows. But the question is which one would be the better choice? I'm not very familiar with the POF rifles, and the ACR is relatively new on the market. So any pros or cons or suggestions would be awesome!
RogerinTPA
09-12-10, 16:34
Hey question for ya guys. Recently i did a job for a guy and he wants to trade me either a POF P415 or an ACR Basic for the work. Both are NIB, he says he just collects guns and never fires them so who knows. But the question is which one would be the better choice? I'm not very familiar with the POF rifles, and the ACR is relatively new on the market. So any pros or cons or suggestions would be awesome!
I don't own either, but I have seen quite a few POFs shit the bed at a carbine course, becoming jammamatics. Several members own the ACR, but none have recorded anything negative, other than being way heavier than the typical M4 type platform we are accustom to.
ForTehNguyen
09-12-10, 18:30
POF P415 isnt that light either around 8 lbs according to their website
ACR stocks, rails, handguards are available now from Bushy so you can change that Basic to a folder easily. What color ACR is he offering?
Yeah i was looking online at the accessories and the folder is only 150, thats pretty good considering magpul is making it. And its a Black ACR.
I do not own either. I have put about 500 rounds down range with his POF. I like the goodies that come with it right out of the box. I've only handle the ACR in stores, but have liked it from the get go. I like that BM is offering the folder stock now. The future will hold more for the ACR.
If I had to pick it would be the ACR.
JR TACTICAL
09-12-10, 19:51
ACR all the way, I know a few guys who bought the POF and they are unhappy with them, the 2 biggest complaints I have heard are they are heavy and bulkey even in the short barrel version
RetreatHell
09-12-10, 19:58
If it has to be either of those two, I'd get the ACR hands down without any question... seriously, get the ACR.
Now if the other blaster was a BCM middy or a Noveske, the decision would be a bit tougher and I'd start asking you some questions as to your needs, what you own already, etc... But going up against a POF, the ACR will win every time for me.
Hope you enjoy whatever you choose:)
Failure2Stop
09-12-10, 20:13
ACR
So shoot it, if it doesn't tickle your fancy, sell it. There is no shortage of potential ACR buyers.
I'd just make sure that the resale value (not MSRP) of either is equal to the value of the work you did.
RetreatHell
09-12-10, 20:15
....
I'd just make sure that the resale value (not MSRP) of either is equal to the value of the work you did.
True dat!
Iraq Ninja
09-12-10, 22:44
ACR.
BTW, does anyone know anything about a POF barrel that is being tested or possibly already in use by tier one units? I was surprised when I heard about it, and suspected that my source may have been mistaken. He didn't mention anything about POF uppers, just a special barrel that he called "POF teflon barrel.
If it has to be either of those two, I'd get the ACR hands down without any question... seriously, get the ACR.
Now if the other blaster was a BCM middy or a Noveske, the decision would be a bit tougher and I'd start asking you some questions as to your needs, what you own already, etc... But going up against a POF, the ACR will win every time for me.
Hope you enjoy whatever you choose:)
Sweet i think i'll go ACR then, thanks for everyone's opinions! And eventually i'll get a Noveske, but i guess my daniel defense will have to do for now, but i have a feeling it might be collecting dust for a couple months while i play with my new toy.
variablebinary
09-13-10, 04:11
At this point, neither.
If I absolutely had to choose one, it would be the ACR at this time.
After the ACR get's a little more mileage, track record and SBR barrels, I might be more interested in it.
Bolt_Overide
09-13-10, 09:46
neither...
choice c: kac sr-15
choice d: colt 6920, a good optic, and some ammo.
ACR
I'm havin fun with mine.
I really don't understand the dislike for POF.
I recently picked up a used 11.5" upper. Its groups are on par with my BCM 11.5" BFH barrel, and while I haven't put it through any serious abuse- yet- it is not at all finnicky with buffers and springs like my Noveske 12.5".
Iraq Ninja
09-13-10, 12:56
I really don't understand the dislike for POF.
I recently picked up a used 11.5" upper. Its groups are on par with my BCM 11.5" BFH barrel, and while I haven't put it through any serious abuse- yet- it is not at all finnicky with buffers and springs like my Noveske 12.5".
Because a new company is often haunted by their early failures and poor reception in the shooting community. The early POFs were know to fail under stress. They were jokenly referred to as POS rather than POF.
Today, POF seems to be obsessed with heat reduction, to the point that ergonomics and weight suffer. Personally, I dislike how the large round hand guards feel. I will take thin and hot over big and cold any day, because I know that while heat is an issue, it is not a game killer.
I really don't understand the dislike for POF.
I recently picked up a used 11.5" upper. Its groups are on par with my BCM 11.5" BFH barrel, and while I haven't put it through any serious abuse- yet- it is not at all finnicky with buffers and springs like my Noveske 12.5".
You spelled it out yourself...you havent put the rifle through serious abuse.
Alot of people have seen these rifles shit the bed at high round count classes, myself included.
They're also heavy, have a bunch of proprietary parts, the integrated rail systems are horrifically huge and uncomfortable (subjective observation) and they're not exactly a soft recoiling AR.
You spelled it out yourself...you havent put the rifle through serious abuse.
Alot of people have seen these rifles shit the bed at high round count classes, myself included.
They're also heavy, have a bunch of proprietary parts, the integrated rail systems are horrifically huge and uncomfortable (subjective observation) and they're not exactly a soft recoiling AR.
How exactly did they soil the bed? Did parts break? I was at a VTAC class, and saw a Noveske, LWRC, and Bushmaster all choke. All the S&W rifles ran great. Does that mean that Noveskes and LWRCs suck and M&P rifles are king of the hill? (not trying to be a smart ass, just an observation)
The previous owner of the upper said he had some initial problems but once POF did something with the chamber it's run like a champ.
As for recoil, throw a Sprinco Red spring and H3 buffer in there, and there's virtually no difference in recoil between my 11.5" and a 16" midlength. No problems so far with short stroking or failing to lock back. Time will tell......and if anyone can cause an AR to malfunction, it's me.
I would agree that the fixation on heat reduction may be a bit too much.
neither.
Seriously? You want me to go with neither of them? So i'll just give out my hard work for free. Come read the post before you start trolling because you don't like these brands.
Seriously? You want me to go with neither of them? So i'll just give out my hard work for free. Come read the post before you start trolling because you don't like these brands.
yep...get the cash instead. no one is trolling pal, so get a grip.
Sorry if that sounded a little harsh, but cash isn't an option. So it's one or the other.
platoonDaddy
09-13-10, 18:32
My range partner recently purchased a P308-14-MRR-308 and it is a sweet shooting weapon, when I fired the 1st round, thought I was shooting my 10/22.
Of course we only have been shooting from a bench at 100 yards and haven't put it through any stress test. Yes it is heavy, with scope and loaded must be pushing 11-12 lbs.
Article by - Charlie Cutshaw (Editor for Jane's)
http://www.pof-usa.net/pdf_files/SWATMAG_POF_Aug10.pdf
Iraq Ninja
09-13-10, 20:23
So it's one or the other.
Why not take them both out to the range and see which one feels good to you? If the ACR shoots everything you throw at it (like the one I shot) it would be my choice of the two. You may be bothered by the weight or not mind it at all.
Are you planning on selling it or keeping it?
Well i went for the ACR and wow this rifle rocks. If you haven't shot one yet you owe it to yourself to go and shoot one. The ergonomics just fits me and where i'm a lefty the controls are all accessible. Recoil impulse is very smooth and hardly any muzzle jump at all. Reliable reliable reliable, we couldn't make it fail. Can't wait the the adjustable stock i ordered! I shot it next to my buddy's FN SCAR and after we both decided that we like the ACR better, but the SCAR is a very nice rifle. I think i made the right choice and a big thank you to everyone who gave their input!
crazymoose
10-14-10, 18:01
ACR.
BTW, does anyone know anything about a POF barrel that is being tested or possibly already in use by tier one units? I was surprised when I heard about it, and suspected that my source may have been mistaken. He didn't mention anything about POF uppers, just a special barrel that he called "POF teflon barrel.
Wouldn't surprise me at all. Not a huge POF fan, but they do use pretty sweet barrels. Rock Creek, I believe.
I found myself in the same perdicament I knew pof rifles have a bad rep for quality and do not function correctly so it was out even though they look neat
the ACR is made by bushmaster and has a 1/9 twist barrel and to me when I shot lots and lots of rounds through one has a very cheap feel and when u rack the rifle reminds my of toys I used to have as a kid
the SCAR felt very solid to me despite having to run the charging handle on the right side of the weapon to prevent it from ripping your thumb nail off but doesn't have any of the cheap plastic feeling to it
so I had a tough choice but I know own a 16s and a 17h scar and am in love with them getting the 16 cut down right now and have experienced no broken parts the only thing that really bothers me about the scar and the acr is they are both overpriced so u really have to shop around I got my 16s for 2055 but msrp is much higher
ForTehNguyen
10-15-10, 09:10
Well i went for the ACR and wow this rifle rocks. If you haven't shot one yet you owe it to yourself to go and shoot one. The ergonomics just fits me and where i'm a lefty the controls are all accessible. Recoil impulse is very smooth and hardly any muzzle jump at all. Reliable reliable reliable, we couldn't make it fail. Can't wait the the adjustable stock i ordered! I shot it next to my buddy's FN SCAR and after we both decided that we like the ACR better, but the SCAR is a very nice rifle. I think i made the right choice and a big thank you to everyone who gave their input!
very cool, glad you like it. I love my ACR basic handguard + folder. Just waiting for a lightweight barrel so it can lose some weight.
justin_247
10-15-10, 11:29
very cool, glad you like it. I love my ACR basic handguard + folder. Just waiting for a lightweight barrel so it can lose some weight.
It's still going to be heavy, but if I had a choice between the POF and the ACR, I'd go ACR all the way.
Eventually, the lightweight barrels will cut 4 or 5 oz off of the weight, but it's still relatively heavy after that.
Doing some comparisons betweens the operating system of the Magpul Masada and the Bushmaster ACR, you can definitely see where Bushmaster beefed things up. For example, the op-rod guide on the Bushmaster barrels is much beefier than the one on the Masada. It's not pinned to the barrel like the gas block and probably adds 2 oz to the weight of the barrel. The gas block appears to be more heavy duty, as well, so that probably adds a few oz, as well.
It seems like on the handguard they could lighten it up signficantly by cutting holes... there's a lot of material that can be removed that I don't think would negatively affect the durability of the weapon.
So, if my two cents mattered (which it obviously doesn't to Bushmaster), I'd go with a lightweight barrel, find ways to conserve weight on the operating system, and significantly modify the rail system. I think this could bring it down to near 7 lbs.
If all else fails, bring in Daniel Defense and let them design a whole new upper receiver for it.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-15-10, 16:58
If it was me I'd get the ACR. If you don't like it, sell it. There are plenty of fan bois out there willing to pay top dollar.
Hey, with the ACR you get full auto for no additional charge!
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64684
Hey, with the ACR you get full auto for no additional charge!
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64684
haha yeah i almost don't want to send mine back. It kinda sucks but i'm glad Bushy will take care of it's customers.
Neither, I don't feel that either are "needful things". There are a bunch of rifles out that I would rather have; LMT LM308MWS, LMT CQB MRP, KA SR-15, Barrett REC 7 in 5.56, and on & on.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-18-10, 14:05
Neither, I don't feel that either are "needful things". There are a bunch of rifles out that I would rather have; LMT LM308MWS, LMT CQB MRP, KA SR-15, Barrett REC 7 in 5.56, and on & on.
clearly someone didn't read the thread.
well, enjoy the acr, sucks that it's has to be sent back to the farm.
At this point, neither.
If I absolutely had to choose one, it would be the ACR at this time.
After the ACR get's a little more mileage, track record and SBR barrels, I might be more interested in it.
Yep.
POF is in the same league as SIG516 and the Ruger SR556.
The ACR is not developed enough yet.
haha yeah i almost don't want to send mine back. It kinda sucks but i'm glad Bushy will take care of it's customers that they screwed over by making and selling a piece of shit.
Sorry. I don't buy into the idea that Bushy "takes care of it's customers". The ONLY reason you are even getting a recall is because they are afraid of the liability.
Bushmaster doesn't take care of shit. Otherwise, they would at least attempt to put out a quality product in their other lines.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-18-10, 22:34
Sorry. I don't buy into the idea that Bushy "takes care of it's customers". The ONLY reason you are even getting a recall is because they are afraid of the liability.
Bushmaster doesn't take care of shit. Otherwise, they would at least attempt to put out a quality product in their other lines.
Exactly, if it werent for massive lawsuits, theyd making hi-points and selling them for $$$$$. But I wont go into that because I dont want to Bushmaster....I mean shit all over this guys thread.
Honestly, after it gets back from the factory, Id sell it for a little less than local retail and build a legitimate carbine or buy a Scar.
Bushmaster doesn't take care of shit. Otherwise, they would at least attempt to put out a quality product in their other lines.
Acutally every one that i've heard who has dealt with bushy has been more than pleased with the way they are treated, myself included. And i've actually fired the ACR next to a scar and i wasnt as impressed with the scar. In fact we had some short stroking issues. Two local law enforcement officers and a ex-marine were firing it with us and they had problems also. I just don't see what the big hype is on the scar, granted it is a very nice rifle but i don't think its the holy grail of black rifles.
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