PDA

View Full Version : AAR Vickers 1911 Operators class Drake Landing Sept 11-12 2010



Amp Mangum
09-14-10, 22:29
Day 1 started off with us teaming up with a partner and doing trigger control drills. The drill consists of you aiming at a target with a UNLOADED pistol. Your partner places a fired casing on top off your front sight. The goal is for you to pull the trigger straight back dropping the hammer without the casing falling off. Next we went to "ball and dummy" drills. Your partner takes your pistol from you, you turn your back and he hands it back to you either with the chamber loaded or unloaded. You don't know. You then aim at the bullseye and pull the trigger straight back. If the gun is empty it will be very obvious if "El Snatcho" is present. If you jerk the trigger you do 5 repetitions of dry fire to hardwire the correct way to pull the trigger. Larry stressed that trigger control is way more important than sight alignment and demonstrated intentionally mis-aligning the sights on a target and still getting combat accurate hits. Prep the trigger, take the slack up then break the shot.

We did some reload drills (hit the slide stop with your thumb to release the slide after doing a slide lock reload on a 1911), strong hand only and support hand only drills.

Larry really stresses accuracy in his class and holds you accountable for each shot. He said you need to shoot hand sized groups in practice because your accuracy will suffer under stress. In the real world he said you own each round you fire and you need to make sure they hit your intended target.

The 1911 needs to be well lubed to run. A couple of guns started malfunctioning because they were dry. Larry said lack of lube is one of the most common causes of malfunctions that he sees in classes and showed us how he lubes a 1911. A couple of drops down the slide rails, in front of the hammer to lube the sear, on the front of the barrel at the bushing and most importantly on the barrel hood. Mobil 1 synthetic oil is great. The 1911 will run dirty but not dry.

Larry said if you're going to run a 1911 stick with a 5" bushing barrel gun in .45acp. He said it is the only version that has acceptable reliability. Stay away from Officer and Commander sized guns. If you want a .45 smaller than a 5" 1911 look at something else. He has had the best luck with Wilson mags. Stay away from full length guide rods. They don't do anything other than complicating take down and they limit your ability to clear a malfunction one handed by pressing the lower front of the slide against an object. Larry said the trigger activated Series 80 firing pin safety is the only reliable firing pin safety system. The grip safety activated safety system isn't as reliable. (Kimber Series II and S&W). Colt tried it in the 1930s and found it unreliable as it requires the grip safety to be completely depressed to work.

Day 2 was the classroom portion. We began by completely dis-assembling our pistols. Several students had never done this before and Larry walked them thru it. He showed us what to look for so the students could trouble shoot their guns and better explain to a gunsmith if their gun had a problem. Larry explained how there is no such thing as a "drop in part" on a 1911. Everything needs to be fitted and that is why the 1911 is an "enthusiast's" pistol and not a service pistol. There are so many manufacturers of parts and guns being built to various tolerance levels.

Larry went over the small details that he checks internally that make a difference in reliabilty. He said at his former job they shot more .45 ammo thru 1911s than anybody else and if something could break or go wrong he had probably seen it. When he pointed out things to look for just about everyone had a gun that needed tweaking. Larry fired up his belt sander and made adjustments to guide rod heads and hammer struts. Larry showed us how to check the extractors and adjust them if needed. We assembled the guns and broke for lunch.

We came back and went over Larry's test fire procedures to check function. We did some shooting on the move and wrapped it up around 3:00.

Guns in the class were Wilson's, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, Springfield Armory, Springfield Custom Shop, Les Baer, Sig, Nighthawk and my buddy Bert's Randall. Bert also had a Colt that Bill Wilson built him in the early 80's that has approx 500,000 rounds thru the frame. The top end has been replaced and the frame has a crack in the dust cover. The gun still shoots and runs fine. The 5" guns ran well but the Commander and Officer models had issues.

One shooter was using Remington UMC ball and had two rounds without flash holes.

I've been shooting 1911s for nearly 20 years and learned a lot. If you run a 1911 you need to take this class. Larry absolutely knows the gun inside and out, not only from the gunsmith angle but from someone who has carried one for real in harm's way. The 1911 is a great pistol and will serve you well but you have to be committed to it and stay on top of maintenance. Larry said "If you treat your gun like you do your lawn mower the 1911 isn't for you, get a Glock".

VA_Dinger
09-15-10, 19:12
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

Thanks AMP for that great AAR.

The 1st of the photos;

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1077.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1088.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1084.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1071.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1044.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1041.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1029.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1029.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_1023.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0987.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0977.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0973.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0973.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0963.jpg

Special thanks to Ryan from Grey Group Training for taking the photos.

VA_Dinger
09-16-10, 07:46
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

More photos;

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0945.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0944.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0929.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0922.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0920.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0919.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0918.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0912.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0909.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0908.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0906.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0901.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0898.jpg

VA_Dinger
09-16-10, 09:06
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

www.vickerstactical.com (http://www.vickerstactical.com)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com (http://www.greygrouptraining.com)

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0886.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0866.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0865.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0860.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0856.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0853.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0851.jpg

VA_Dinger
09-16-10, 12:58
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0845.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0837.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0828.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0823.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0816.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0808.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0802.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0799.jpg

VA_Dinger
09-16-10, 17:53
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0776.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0770.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0769.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0765.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0763.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0756.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0754.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0752.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0751.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0750.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0748.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0746.jpg

VA_Dinger
09-17-10, 06:52
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0745.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0744.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0743.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0742.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0741.jpg\

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0740.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0739.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/PIC_0738.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0499.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0498.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0497.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0496.jpg

VA_Dinger
09-17-10, 06:53
I’m going to try like hell to get all of the photos from this class posted up by tonight. I know everyone likes to see the photos from their class and nothing is more annoying than waiting weeks for photos to trickle in.

Klear Above
09-17-10, 08:17
Gents,
Just finished the course video enjoy:
LAV 1911 Operator Course Video (http://community.greygrouptraining.com/2010/09/17/lav-1911-operator-video.aspx)

zushwa
09-17-10, 11:05
For anyone that attended, were there some rare 1911's? In most classes you see one or two 1911's, but mostly Glocks, M&P's, HK's, etc. I would imagine in a class like this there was some gorgeous American steel.

VA_Dinger
09-17-10, 19:29
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0495.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0494.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0493.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0491.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0490.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0489.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0488.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0487.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0486.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0485.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%2011-12%20Sep%202010/IMG_0484.jpg

Dave Williams
09-18-10, 01:24
Good to see my pal Bert in those pics. HI Bert!:)

I loved the video of those blasters going off all down the line.

Everybody shoots 9mm nowadays in all the classes, me included, good to see God's Gun/Cartridge getting a workout!

Dave Williams