AAR EAG Carbine Boone County 06-08July 07

[Pat_Rogers]

EAG conducted a Carbine Operators course at the Boone County IN Sheriffs Range in Lebanon. This is my favorite place to teach for a variety of reasons, and the fact that Ken Campbell is now the Sheriff is just icing on the cake.

This class was- like all of the Boone County classes- large (26) and eclectic. We had cops, military, contractors, lawyer, instructors, gunsmith, farmer/ writer, gun store owners/ workers, designers, confectioner- we had it all covered here.
The WX started off hot and humid, and became hotter and more humid. This WX requires that you hydrate and eat if you want to continue to function. Lack of fluids and food results in decreased performance, which results in safety issues.
Most people underestimate the problem and overestimate their physical capability and stamina. We had one shooter wisely remove himself from the class on TD1 because of this.
You should have a Camelbak on you person so that you can drink when you want to (read regularly here) instead of when you can. At the very least bring a damn yuppie canteen to the line in your cargo pocket with you- but bring something.

The gun issues were thankfully few, but notable. An LMT 10” suddenly got sluggish and stopped. The usual suspects were rapidly eliminated, and finally JK opened up the gas port a few thou and it ran without a problem after that.
A LW rifle went down hard. There were multiple problems and the shooter finished the class with one of my Colt’s. I have seen only a very few LW rifles at my classes, and the run/ not run ratio is at 50%. The limited number of articles makes it impossible to draw ant conclusions, but I am not sure that introducing a gas piston does not bring another set of problems to the table.
We had a Robinson XCR in the last class, and it was a marginal performer. We had two in this class. One was a gun that was unable to run in an earlier class (an SBR), and ran fine for a few hours until the shooter had to drop out.
The second (16”bbl) ran well until TD 3, when it took a major dump. It failed to eject, and when the shooter initiated his IAD, we heard pieces rattling inside the gun, and the ejector fell out.
When we took the gun apart we found some screw and washers (the ejector is held in with screws). The bolt had destroyed the magazine after the ejector dropped off, and the barrel was in the process of disassembling.
The owner of the store (actually his son) which sold these guns stated he was finished with these guns and the company.
Go figure….
For what it’s worth, he ran an AR- which worked.
Magazines continue to be an issue. Here is a clue. If you seat a mag with the bolt open and rounds volcano into the upper receiver- 86 that magazine.
We had a lot of PMAGs at class, which all worked fine with one exception. Rich sent me 4 “smoke” mags to use.
Now, I’ll be the first to tell you that I cannot think of a single viable reason for someone to have a clear/ smoke magazine, but I’m game to try. I am told that clear mags require different materials that may react differently to lube/ cleaning as well as causing some durability issues. I don’t have the ability to do sophisticated testing, so I’ll do as most other posters do and just shoot them and report back on what we see/ experience.
I had 4 of the “smoke” mags, and Steve (a hard shooting AF Cop) used them during the class. He had a feeding problem with one so we took it off line and marked it.
Later I took it out for further examination and found that the feed ramp on one side was cracked and it broke off in my hand.

Gear is always interesting. I wrote a SWAT article about this (out I believe next month) but I’ll touch on some points here.
• Don’t overload your vest!
• Don’t put anything on the strong side of your vest that will be in conflict with your holster.
• Keep the majority of your mags on your support side. If you have mags on your strong side, use them to backfill the pouches on the support side.
• Use common sense when setting up your gear
• 4 M4 mags are too much for a leg pouch- unless you are standing still.
• Try out your gear at home. Make sure that you put all of your gear on and test the integration of weapon and support gear. It has to work together or it will suck.

As always, the biggest issue in these classes is converting people from the “shooting/ competition” mindset to a proper fighting mindset. This is readily apparent with shooters being in a hurry to take themselves out of the fight- yanking the gin down without assessing. Failing to transition to pistol, failing to tacload, and overall, failing to maintain Situational Awareness (SA).
There is only so much to do in a 3 Day class, and you have to maximize your time spent on the ground.

We had two luminaries in the class- Dick Heinie, noted pistolsmith, competitive shooter and sight maker extraordinaire, and “I’m just a farmer” Frank James, gun writer and author of “Project 64”, the history of the MP5 sub caliber machine gun. Two good guys who hung with a lot younger guys (both of their guns ran well…)

Special thanks to Mike Hueser and Josh K for their hard and neverending work. Also to Sheriff Ken, for not only his support but his friendship as well.
Kudos to Larue Tactical, Slip 2000, Viking Tactics, Dick Heinie, Blue Force Gear and TangoDown for their continued support.
Thanks to the students who, despite the heat managed to smack themselves on the head with great enthusiasm and unerring accuracy…

[Hawkeye]

............ Gear is always interesting. I wrote a SWAT article about this (out I believe next month) but I’ll touch on some points here.
• Don’t overload your vest!
• Don’t put anything on the strong side of your vest that will be in conflict with your holster.
• Keep the majority of your mags on your support side. If you have mags on your strong side, use them to backfill the pouches on the support side.
• Use common sense when setting up your gear
• 4 M4 mags are too much for a leg pouch- unless you are standing still.
• Try out your gear at home. Make sure that you put all of your gear on and test the integration of weapon and support gear. It has to work together or it will suck.

You know, to me, these points seem so simple and obvious. I have to remind myself that many people just dont think that way. Things such as transferring mags from the strong side to fill weak side pouches... I've been doing that forever. Just kinda seemed natural.


As always, the biggest issue in these classes is converting people from the “shooting/ competition” mindset to a proper fighting mindset. This is readily apparent with shooters being in a hurry to take themselves out of the fight- yanking the gin down without assessing. Failing to transition to pistol, failing to tacload, and overall, failing to maintain Situational Awareness (SA).
There is only so much to do in a 3 Day class, and you have to maximize your time spent on the ground.

Glad to see I am not completely nuts for personally thinking that the mindset factor is not a huge part of the equation.

[abnk]

What an excellent course this was! I really appreciated Pat's no-nonsense, no-sugar-coating teaching style. Josh (who had a vast technical knowledge) and Mike were great assets as well. I never had to look too far to ask a question as they were ubiquitous.

I had planned on writing an AAR for the boards and my friends, but I decided against it since it would probably do injustice to the course.

The following is not an AAR, just a list of some the lessons I learned. There are far too many to mention, but I'll post the main ones.


1) Mindset--the most important, in my opinion, since it correlates closely with everything following.


2) Marksmanship. I never pretended to be an excellent shot, but I never thought I was a poor shot either--until I took this class. In the Army, I used to shoot a 38 out of 40 on the pop up range, which is Expert (if my memory serves me correctly, the targets are set in 50m increments from 50m to 300m). Well, apparently standing shooting, shooting while moving, and other drills are quite different than shooting from the foxhole or prone supported or unsupported. ;)

Lately, as a civilian, I set myself for failure. My typical range trip was zeroing at 25 yards from the bench while admiring my touching holes. Then moving to the 50 or 100 yard range, again from the bench. Wrong mindset! This class brought my weaknesses out and showed me that I suck. I did improve, however. I don't know my total score, but for the second part of the test--the multiple target one--I got a 47.

Goals for marksmanship:
a. Change mindset
b. Never again shoot from the bench unless zeroing.
c. More dry-firing.
d. Every shot fired will be part of a drill.


3. Firearms and parts. The rifle I used was a hybrid: Eagle Arms lower, J&T Distributing LPK, and complete upper from Eagle Firearms (not the same as Eagle Arms). In the couple of thousands of rounds this carbine had had before the class, the only malfunctions were a broken bolt catch and an out of spec selector which was stuck on fire. Both parts were replaced and never had any other issues. Nor did I expect I would have any. Again, I was wrong. This weapon had never been run as hard as in this course.

The malfunctions I experienced were extraction problems and enough to decrease my confidence in the weapon. Josh showed me how the extractor was too smooth, spring was weak, and the black insert had no elasticity left, therefore he installed an advanced spring from TacticalSprings.com and new insert. That pushed me for another half of a day. After more extraction problems, I tried a new extractor I had bought from PK Firearms who claimed that it was RRA. This was just as bad as the old extractor. Josh ended up installing a new extractor with a new spring and insert, and a new buffer spring from TacticalSprings.com. After this, I was G2G for the rest of the course.

Goals:
a. Listen to Pat's advice on going with Colt (I used to think the Colt thing is a charade).
b. Buy quality spare parts.


4. Color blindness. Shooting at a normal silhouette from standing or while moving turned out to be more difficult than shooting at the tiny silhouette on the 25m zero target from 50 or 100 yards from the bench. Again, wrong mindset. I never had any problems discerning the black tiny silhouette on a white background on the 25m zero target out to 100 yards. However, I could not see the circles on the 10-8 target.

Goals: Suck it up and improve tactical marksmanship.


5. Collapsible stock was probably too long. On TD1, Pat said that the stock should be as short as practically possible. I thought mine was good, until TD3 when I noticed that mine was probably the longest carbine with a collapsible stock. Shooter taller than I actually had shorter stocks. When I went home, I spent some time trying different positions and comfortably shortened it three.


6. Gear: I used the old-fashioned LBE (LCE). In Pat's words, "Maybe they were cool in the 70's and 80's, brotha." :D
The problems I ran into with the LBE (LCE) were:
a. The big flaps slowed me during speed reloads.
b. When I folded the flaps backwards to expose the mags, they all fell when getting on the prone position or sprinting to the firing line. Sure, I got there fast, but at what cost did it come? I had no mags to reload; I had left a trail of them behind me.
c. Since an IWB holster is what I always carry, I did not want to change my muscle memory. Every time I sprinted or got on the prone position, the LBE pistol belt covered my pistol grip. Had that happened in a real fight and I needed to transition, I would have been ****ed.

Goals: Change mindset. I used to think that if I had money for gear, that money would be better spent on mags and ammo. Not anymore.


Lastly, three days is simply not enough to absorb all the information this class provides. I am looking forward to taking it again.

Pat and team, thanks for the outstanding training. Also big thanks to Sheriff Campbell for bringing us top-notch instructors.

Edited for grammar.

[shooter521]

My AAR follows. HTML document with pics can be found here:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/shooter2_indy/EAG_carbine_2007.html

Raw photos and video can be found here (more uploading daily):
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/

____________________________


DISCLAIMER: I do not represent EAG Tactical in any way; I speak only as a satisfied customer.

Pat Rogers is a retired NYPD sergeant and Chief Warrant Officer of Marines with more than 30 years in service. His company, EAG Tactical, was founded in 1992 and provides tactical training and security consulting services to various military, law enforcement and government entities. Pat has worked in the Middle East, South America, the "emerging republics" of the former Soviet Union, and other locations around the world. He has also worked as a senior instructor at Gunsite, and is a regular contributor to SWAT magazine. On top of all this, Pat makes time each year to instruct a limited number of open-enrollment classes at various locations around the country.

One of Pat's regular teaching stops is the Boone County Sheriff's Department range in Lebanon, Indiana. During the summer, the BCSD plays host to a number of well-known instructors, offering courses in all manner of armed and unarmed self-defense disciplines. BCSD is a progressive department that recognizes the value of a trained police force, and, equally as important, a trained citizenry. Sheriff Ken Campbell has promised that as long as he is in office or has anything to do with the department's training program, the BCSD will continue to bring first-class training opportunities to central Indiana. The Department is fortunate to have Ken at its helm, and we Hoosiers are fortunate to have such a resource available.

I first took the EAG Carbine Operators Course in the summer of 2004. Because it was my first exposure to professional training with the carbine, trying to absorb all the new information was sort of like trying to drink from a firehose! I came away with a solid skillset on which to build, but I knew there were things I'd missed or would forget. In the three years since, I have attended a couple other carbine courses and have made an effort to train with my long guns more on my own, as well. So when Pat announced his 2007 dates for Boone County, I decided to give the Carbine Operators Course another go - both as a refresher, and to gauge how my skills had developed. I also roped my buddies Doug and Aaron into going; Doug had taken the course with me back in '04, but this would be Aaron's first time at the rodeo, so to speak.

THE STUDENTS
There were 26 students in the course (held July 6-8), although one had to drop out early on the first day. Pat's courses tend to be more military and LE-centric than others I've been to, but Boone County classes are always diverse, and this one was no exception. Students ran the gamut from the expected military, law enforcement and security contractor types, to engineers, salesmen, lawyers, financial advisors, computer techs and even a candymaker(!) on the civilian side. Also in the class were noted pistolsmith and sightmaker Richard Heinie, and gunwriter Frank W. James.

THE HARDWARE
The variety of equipment used by the students was almost as diverse as their backgrounds; some ran the whole weekend with just a couple spare mags on the belt, while others jocked up in vests or plate carriers with body armor, lots of mags, hydration, the works. Weapons ranged from stripped-down lightweight AR carbines with iron sights, to registered SBRs, to the sophisticated and expensive LMT MRPs, topped with ACOGs or Aimpoint M4s. Oddities included a couple LW piston-driven ARs, a Robinson XCR and a Springfield SOCOM-16. I wore my Eagle Industries MOLLE plate carrier with Spectergear Universal Mag Pouches in front and a Camelbak hydration system in back, and tossed my empty mags in a Maxpedition dump pouch worn on the belt just behind my pistol mag pouches. My Glock 34 rode in my outstanding RM Holsters "Sport Slide" kydex paddle holster. This has been my standard class and match setup for a year or so now, and I'm quite pleased with it. None of the components of the system interferes with any of the others, which is a Good Thing; having to spend class time deconflicting gear (as some students had to) takes away from the learning experience for all involved. I shot the course with my Recon Carbine, topped with a brand-new GRSC 1-4x scope in a LaRue Tactical SPR-E mount. The gun wore a Viking Tactics VTAC padded sling, which was also a new piece of gear for me. My chosen ammo was S&B M193 55gr FMJ for the carbine, and Winchester 115gr FMJ for the Glock.

THE COURSE
I was interested in comparing this course to the one I'd taken back in 2004, so I took detailed notes on everything we did. What follows is a summary of each Training Day:

TD1
Weather was sunny and warm, with a high in the upper 80s. I thought it was actually quite comfortable, as far as Indiana summer days go! We started with a welcome from Sheriff Campbell, a review of the range rules and general safety procedures, and some brief bio information from Pat and his assistant instructors. After introductions, Pat launched into the lecture portion of the course, with a brief discussion of ballistics ("there are no 'death rays' according to Pat; even the vaunted .308 and 12 gauge); the mechanics of the basic fighting stance; iron sights vs. optics, with a dissertation on the pros, cons and common problems/fixes for the EOTech sight by Mike H; selection and placement of gear and mags on the body; and the basics of manipulating the carbine, including "make ready," loading, reloading, firing (singles, controlled pairs, hammers and the "non-standard response" or NSR were described here) and follow-through. We then lined up, broke into two relays, and hit the range.

Live fire began with establishing zeroes from the prone @ 50 yards. This process went fairly quickly, as most of the students had optics and were able to easily make the adjustments indicated by the zeroing grid incorporated into the EAG target. After lunch, Pat took us through a brief preventative maintenance (PM) routine for the AR before we hit the range. Live fire resumed with controlled pairs, hammers and NSRs from 3 yards, where we got our first real look at the importance of maintaining the proper offset at close range (due to the height of the AR's sights over bore, you need to aim approximately 2.5" above your intended point of impact inside 15 yards or so). We then moved back to 15 yards and fired from braced kneeling, speed (unbraced) kneeling, double knee ("Monica") and squatting. After that, we practiced pistol transitions at 5 yards ("going to the blaster" should be your standard response in the event of a misfire or other malfunction inside 25 yards). Moving back to 50 yards, we confirmed our zeroes from the prone, then fired strings of 2 shots standing and 2 shots kneeling, which would be a critical component of the MEU(SOC) course we would shoot on TD3. We ended the day with an introduction to the "indoor ready" position (gun is held against the body with the stock near the shoulder and the muzzle angled down and pointing about 12" out from the off-side foot), and used it as a basis from which we fired hammers, failure drills and NSRs at 5 yards. Personally, I thought TD1 came to a close entirely too soon, but the shooting portion served to whet our appetites for the intensity that would follow over the next couple days.

TD2
Weather was again sunny, but even warmer and more humid than Day 1, so eating and hydrating constantly throughout the day became critical to keeping up one's energy level and staying focused on the task at hand. We started Day 2 by verifying our zeroes at 50 yards, then we launched into a series of speed reloading drills at 25 yards, including 2 rounds/speed reload/2 rounds from standing, and 2 rounds standing/speed reload/2 rounds kneeling. That wouldn't have been so bad, but we had to run each series utilizing every magazine on our bodies! This was intended to give the students experience in accessing all their various mag pouches, and was an instant indicator of less-than-optimal pouch placement. For those students carrying large numbers of mags (9 to 13, in some cases), it was also an exercise in stamina! After that, we were briefed on the techniques for clearing Type 1, 2 and 3 malfuctions at 25 yards or greater (closer than that and we go to the blaster, remember?), and immediately set about inducing and clearing such malfunctions in a live-fire setting. After lunch came a series of instruction blocks followed by live-fire exercises, covering such topics as multiple-target engagement sequence ("Roadhouse Rules" and the "Box Drill"), shooting on the move from the 25- to the 3-yard line, and static turns (engaging targets at 90° left and right offsets) at 7 yards. We then progressed to dynamic turns, where the turn flows right into shooting on the move, from 7 to 3 yards. Moving back to 50 yards, we shot strings of 2 standing/2 kneeling/2 prone, which would again come into play during the MEU(SOC) course on TD3. "Occluded sight" drills came next; these involved masking the objective end of the red-dot sight but leaving the sight turned on, and using the combined image from both eyes (one seeing the dot, the other seeing the target) to aim. We also shot with our electronic sights OFF, using the sight window as a pseudo rear sight. Both techniques allowed students to accurately place rounds from 7 yards out. We didn't cover this material in the 2004 course, and I found it quite interesting. We finished TD2 shooting hammers and box drills strong-hand-only. Although this sucks, it's nice to know it can be done, in the event one is injured or the support hand is otherwise occupied. Proper technique helps (pull the gun tightly into the shoulder to minimize fatigue on the wrist), as does having a well-balanced carbine. We covered a lot of material, and by the end of the day, I was pretty wiped. The instructors and most of the students adjourned to a local restaurant after class, which gave everyone an opportunity to get to know each other a little better and swap war stories ("no sh*t, there I was").

TD3
Day 3 was a carbon copy of Day 2 in the weather department, and began with a discussion about weapon makes/models, features and quality control issues. After that, we moved out to the 50 yard line to once again verify our zeroes, and stayed there to shoot a string of 5 brain shots, followed by several series of 2 shots standing/2 shots kneeling – again building us up for the MEU(SOC) course. We then practiced "failure drills" (2 rounds center mass followed by 1 round to the brain) at 25 and 15 yards, as well as static turns – engaging targets with either a failure drill or an NSR – at 7 and 3 yards. Staying up close at the 3 yard line, we continued to blast our targets with brain shots, failure drills and NSRs at warp speed. Pat then had us combine several previously learned skill sets, transitioning to the pistol and engaging targets while on the move from 10 to 3 yards, both with and without a speed reload. Finally it was back to the 50 yard line for more strings of 2 standing/2 kneeling/2 prone, as well as running from the 50 yard line to the 25 and firing 2 standing/2 kneeling. After that, it was finally time for our first run through the MEU(SOC) carbine qualification course, which Pat uses as a performance benchmark in his classes.

We fired the course twice - once for practice and once for score. The MEU(SOC) is a good course of fire and a good measure of a student's performance, as it incorporates shooting at various distances (3 to 50 yards), from multiple stationary positions as well as on the move, on single and multiple targets, and including a tactical reload – all under time pressure. The Marines who do this for real go out and qualify in full gear - rucksack, body armor, 13 loaded mags, pistol, helmet, goggles, gloves, comms, the works - and in any weather, and they shoot better scores than lightly loaded students like us do on a sunny day... I stand in awe of that kind of capability, and glad they're on OUR side! On my practice run, I shot an 88, which didn't make me very happy despite being a passing score. Just 3 months earlier, I'd shot a 90 with my 12" barreled AK-105, so in my mind I had to do better with a scoped 16" AR! Taking Pat's "get into the Zen of it – 'be the bullet'" speech to heart, I resolved to do better on the next run. After lunch, we shot the course "for real" and I scored a 93. Woo-hoo!

After we completed the MEU(SOC) course, Pat selected four students to be team leaders for our final exercise, which he called the "LAPD drill." He explained that the drill was designed to allow a team encountering enemy fire from the front to rapidly move from "stacked" configuration into a line perpendicular to the threat, so all team members would be able to deliver suppressing fire. Each team would move along in the stack until one of the instructors fired his pistol, simulating an attack. The pointman would immediately stop and engage the target in front of him, while the other team members fanned out to either side, opening fire as they came on-line with the pointman. I was chosen to lead Team 4, but of course I had never taken part in anything like this before! So I selected a couple cops (Doug, and Brad Trittipo from the 10-8 Forums) and some former and active military guys to round out my team, and actively solicited their suggestions on entry order and how to handle communication and reloading after each engagement. The LAPD drills provided students the opportunity to move, shoot and communicate in a team environment (something many of us had never done before), but most of all they were a helluva lot of fun! We burned through a LOT of ammo (especially the first 3 guys in the stack), got the guns smoking hot, and left a trail of spent magazines in our wake. It was a totally new experience for me, and an awesome way to end the course.

Total Rounds Fired: 1181 carbine, 100 pistol

EQUIPMENT PROBLEMS
A fast-paced, high round count course like this tends to take its toll on guns and gear - especially stuff that is marginal to begin with. In addition to the occasional ammo or mag issue, we had several major problems with carbines. A couple guns – an LMT 10.5" with an undersized gas port and underpowered ammo, and an M4 of unknown origin with a bad extractor and recoil spring – went down but were eventually returned to service. A couple others – an LWRC M4 conversion with a broken piston system, and a Robinson XCR with a sheared extractor, loose barrel and other issues – went down hard and stayed out for the duration. My Recon Carbine experienced two inexplicable failures to fire on TD2; two separate rounds in the middle of two separate mags, and the hammer fell both times, yet there was no mark on either primer. I solved the problem in both cases by transitioning to the pistol and completing the drill, and experienced no other problems before or after. My maintenance routine was limited to wiping down the barrel extension and bolt/carrier every night, and lubing every morning with a couple extra drops in the bolt gas holes at lunch. Doug's BCM 11.5" SBR and Aaron's 16" HBAR also ran well; the latter was a bit surprising, since we had just built and test-fired the gun a few days prior to class!).

AWARDS
After the brass call from Hell, Pat got us all back together for some closing words and to present our certificates, as well as award the top shooters in the class. The High Individual Shooter (top score on the single-target portion of the MEU(SOC) course) received a complete set of furniture from TangoDown, LLC. The High Multiple Shooter (top score on the multiple-target portion of the MEU(SOC) course) received a sling system from BlueForce Gear and a spring kit from Tactical Springs.com. The High Overall Shooter (top total score on the MEU(SOC) course) – holy crap, that's ME! – received an Aimpoint mount from LaRue Tactical, a VTAC padded sling from Viking Tactics, and a spring kit from Tactical Springs.com. I'll certainly use the gear I won, and thanks go out to all the mentioned companies for their support.

IN CLOSING
This course was light years ahead of the one I took back in '04. The overall skill/experience level of the students was higher, which allowed us to do some more advanced work like the LAPD drills. Additionally, Pat was capably assisted by Mike H., Josh K. and Sheriff Ken, which meant a lot more instructor eyes on the students, so not very much got missed (good or bad!). It was, as always, a pleasure training with Pat and company, and alongside an outstanding group of guys. Thanks to Sheriff Ken and his crew, as well, for continuing to bring first-class training opportunities to central Indiana. I look forward to going back next year!

[rhino]

Thanks for a good report, abnk. It sounds like you had a good experience.



However, I could not see the circles on the 10-8 target.

If you don't mind me interjecting, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Real life threats are often indistinct, especially in low light or at longer distances. Being able to hit the most vital area available to you with fewer visual cues is probably a good thing. It's kind of like putting a t-shirt over and IDPA target to obscure the scoring perforations.





6. Gear: I used the old-fashioned LBE (LCE).

There are certainly some better choices on the market. You could probably get better utility from your old school LBE (and thus extend its lifetime and your budget) by supplementing it with a good open-topped belt pouch or two. You use them for your speed reloads, then fill them from your LBE as you have time. If nothing else, if would help while you are selecting more sophisticated stuff ... and you may want to still use the belt pouches with your new gear too.

[rhino]

. . . the "LAPD drill." He explained that the drill was designed to allow a team encountering enemy fire from the front to rapidly move from "stacked" configuration into a line perpendicular to the threat, so all team members would be able to deliver suppressing fire. Each team would move along in the stack until one of the instructors fired his pistol, simulating an attack. The pointman would immediately stop and engage the target in front of him, while the other team members fanned out to either side, opening fire as they came on-line with the pointman.

Thanks for the explanation!

[shooter521]

Thanks for the explanation!

No problem. In practice, it looks something like this:
http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/Team%20Drills/?action=view&current=DSCF0183.flv

Apologies for the poor video quality; it's a function of uploading to Photobucket. :mad:

[abnk]

Shooter,


Thanks for sharing the videos. It's great to see oneself post-action.


rhino,


It was a great experience, indeed. It showed me just how much I had not been doing right.

I don't mind you interjecting at all, by the way. I actually appreciate it. That's an interesting take on POA. As far as equipment, I think I'll go with a complete new rig. In the second video, you can see me struggling with my gear to retrieve a magazine for a speed reload, while the gentleman to my left with a chest rig is at least twice as fast and efficient.

[rhino]

rhino,


It was a great experience, indeed. It showed me just how much I had not been doing right.

I don't mind you interjecting at all, by the way. I actually appreciate it. That's an interesting take on POA. As far as equipment, I think I'll go with a complete new rig. In the second video, you can see me struggling with my gear to retrieve a magazine for a speed reload, while the gentleman to my left with a chest rig is at least twice as fast and efficient.


New is the best way to go, but now you have to decide which you want!

I mentioned it because I enjoy seeing guys with "old school" gear when it doesn't slow them down. If it does, then it's a hindrance you don't need, especially when you're trying to learn a lot of new stuff in just three days.

Make sure you get at least one belt pouch/carrier, though. You'll want to use it with whatever else you choose.

[Pat_Rogers]

Abnk- nice post. The fact that you learned something made the course worthwhile, even at the expense of feeding the range chickens.

Those triple mag pouches suck for anything other then carrying magazines- but certainly not for using them.
I covered this in a SWAT article on mag pouches a long time ago- but some lessons are likely never learned.

[C4IGrant]

an LWRC M4 conversion with a broken piston


Anyone got pics of this???



C4

[Leviathan]

"I shot the course with my Recon Carbine, topped with a brand-new GRSC 1-4x scope in a LaRue Tactical SPR-E mount. "

What are your thoughts on the GRSC?

[shooter521]

What are your thoughts on the GRSC?

The scope performed very well overall. My general impression is that the scope at 1x isn't quite "Aimpoint fast," but is quick enough, and allows greater precision. My groups from 3-50 yards were noticeably tighter than when I shoot my dot-equipped carbines. I shot a couple strings from 50 yards at 4x and 2.5x, but found that target acquisition was slowed too much, especially when position changes were thrown into the mix. I would only go greater than 1x at this distance if I a) was in a static position and had plenty of time to acquire the target, and b) was taking a high-percentage shot.

Gripes:

1) the reticle of my scope is slightly canted counter-clockwise, relative to the scope body. Not a big deal at 1x, but distracting/annoying as hell at 4x. Evidently the design of Ed's reticle is difficult for the assembly monkeys in China to center properly, so a bunch of his scopes had this issue to some degree. He hopes this and some other bugs will be fixed in the next production batch, and has offered to exchange my scope once that batch has arrived. I have nothing but good things to say about the communication and service I've gotten from Ed @ GRSC.

2) The illumination is pretty much useless outdoors, even on a somewhat cloudy day. During the "occluded optic" drills, where we shot with both eyes open and reticle illuminated with the front cover closed, I had to turn the brightness up to 11, and even then the reticle wasn't that bright (but the technique worked). That said, I had no problem picking up the black reticle, even against dark backgrounds/targets.

3) Following the recommended sight-in procedure (2" low at 25 yards) dramatically increases your offset at very close range (3-7 yards). Not necessarily a shortcoming of the optic, but definitely something to be mindful of.

Oh, and since this *is* the AAR thread, how 'bout some pics of my GRSC-scoped carbine in action?
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/Individuals/P7080013.jpg

http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/Relay%201/P1010057.jpg

The gun got a little warm at the end of TD3:
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/Team%20Drills/P7080045.jpg

[Heavy Metal]

This info makes me glad I passed on the XCR and bought the 6920 and Aimpoint M4 from Grant.

PS Grant, I really, really like that Aimpoint Comp M4.

*Edit* and the 6920

[Pat_Rogers]

You know, we have only seen 3 XCR's, so that is not a large enough statistical sample to base too many decisions on>
However, you can't go too wrong with a 6920 and Aimpoint:D

[Hawkeye]

You know, we have only seen 3 XCR's, so that is not a large enough statistical sample to base too many decisions on>
However, you can't go too wrong with a 6920 and Aimpoint:D

Out of curiosity, how many of those 3 have made it through a class?

[Pat_Rogers]

One, but the shooter had difficulty with it all the way.
One dropped out due to physical issues. However, that gun failed to make it through a previous class shortly before and had some issues here.
The last had an ejector failure (held on with screws).
Again- not enough to make a decision on.

[cmdr249]

How did the SOCOM 16 run in the course?

[Pat_Rogers]

It ran fine, for the one day that the shooter used it.
At least the front sight didn't crack in half, which happens regularly.

[shooter521]

At least the front sight didn't crack in half, which happens regularly.

I'll go ya one better, Pat... a guy came into the shop last week seeking help with his brand-new SOCOM-II (not purchased from us). His first time out, the entire front end (front sight base, muzzle device and gas piston assembly) launched downrange after about 20 rounds. :eek: He reinstalled everything, fired another round and it happened again. No obvious damage to the parts; I don't know how the assembly was just "flying off," given the muzzle device is threaded onto the barrel... I advised him to box the gun up and ship it back to Springfield for warranty repair. First time I'd ever seen anything like that; it was... interesting. And disappointing for a brand-new gun with that kind of pricetag.

Anyway, here's a few pics of Rick rockin' his SOCOM-16; he threw that beast around better than most guys do an AR:
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/Individuals/P1010029.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/Individuals/P1010063.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/EAG%20Carbine%202007/Individuals/P1010084.jpg

[Pat_Rogers]

Yikes! More SA QC, huh???
What surprises me is that thet take this gun, give it a scary name, and then put a friggin' Weaver base (of all things) on it.

Rick did a great job with that. Two things stand out (aside from his talent!) and that is the VFG, which he feels added signigicantly to his control of the gun (gee, another surprise). The second was his adjustable cheekpiece.

I heard back from the guy whose LW went down. That was part of a group by (from a while ago) and the company owned right up to some issues- which says a lot how the new company is addressing things.
They replaced the entire upper, ops checked and test fired it, and returned it in one week.
Top shelf!

[Hawkeye]

I heard back from the guy whose LW went down. That was part of a group by (from a while ago) and the company owned right up to some issues- which says a lot how the new company is addressing things.
They replaced the entire upper, ops checked and test fired it, and returned it in one week.
Top shelf!


Thats some smokin service there.

[Pat_Rogers]

It sure was!

[Heavy Metal]

Pat,

By any chance on the LWRC rifle, did the front roll pin slip out and let the gas spigot do it's own thing?

I have heard the replaced the roll pin with a solid pin.

[Pat_Rogers]

I don't believe it slipped out as much as it was battered to death...

[RD62]

Pat,

Just curious if you see many M1A's in classes and if so do they tend to have issues as a whole or is it more confined to the SOCOM's or Springfields?

-RD62

[Pat_Rogers]

While i have done several M14 classes, i may see only 6-10 in normal classes during a year.
The cracked front sight is something i have only seen on the SOCOM.
Hope this helps.