Girl Scouts ?

[Honu]

OK our 6 year old asked us about Girl Scouts we are in Phoenix ? but was curious if any of you other parents know much to share ? I know every area will be different but any info etc..

good bad ? are they turning to green :) or they still good to go ?

[HES]

Besides being an asst cubmaster and asst scout master I am also a registered girl scout :D

My wife and daughters are deeply involved with GS and she has been a neighborhood director for many a year. That position is some where between a cub master/scout master and a district chair.

Here is my analysis of GS based on 7 years experience with the program:

GS has some leadership and organizational structure problems.

On the troop / local level a lot of that is due to the nature of women vs. men. Men are pack animals, women are not / tend to go it alone. Add in the general bitchiness and back stabbing endemic to women and it can be a major problem.
While cub scouts are very family orientated, GS troops are family exclusionary. They only want the girl and her mother there. Male siblings under the age of 5 can "tag along". This comes from when GS was founded all the ways up until recent times when girls were, or were perceived to be, at the mercy of a man's world. GS was created to give a female centric universe where girls could achieve on their own. GS has a policy of "drop the girl here and come back in an hour or two" Vs. the cub scout way of "family stays through out the meeting". In cub scouts when the boys are there they belong to the adult leaders. With GS, hyper protective mommies undermine the adult leaders left and right.

Nationally GS organization of the units and troops is a major problem and today they are trying to find their identity. Once again, like a nursing unit in a hospital, its a female run organization subject to female social interactions and norms.

Each GS troop (think cub den or BS patrol) is a self contained unit. They do not have the support structure of a higher pack or BS troop to lean on. While cub and BS can appeal to a boys sense of adventure, GS cannot / chooses not to. Their re-imaging programs (several) over the past few years has been a flop. Leaders should also not count on a whole lot of support from your council or national.
GS has a new director who is trying to get away from the "hip" (empty) image and get them back to their roots of self reliance and a bit of adventure with a whole lot of relevant activities. For instance the girls are building robots out of circuit boards and learning soldering and electronics instead of knitting and making nice flower pictures. The jury is still out on this effort.
Finally, due to the nature of girls, most GS troops fall apart by the 7th grade. At that point those who are still interested in scouting wind up combining troops to try to stay alive and active. But all is not lost.

GS does have the potential to be a great organization. What it takes to do that is a VERY strong troop leader who has at least one and preferably two strong assistant leaders. The troop leader needs to establish her position as a leader. Setting up a "committee" style of leadership is the path to disaster. Adult women will act like bitchy 3rd grade girls and tear the troop apart. Its in their nature. I am not being a misogynistic SOB when I say this. It is reality. The leader has to be prepared for these little games and not let the adults get under her skin. She should be prepared for at least two bitch adult led mutinies to be attempted over a 7 year period. She should not take it personally. It is the nature of women. At the same time a leader should listen to the input of the parents. Conversely the troop leader has the final say and parents should know that they are expected to follow the leaders decision. The leader has to find that fine line between being a cast iron bitch and a regular parent and walk it all the time.
A good leader should delegate, delegate, delegate. Get a parent to be the camping coordinator, get another one to be in charge of adult training, get another to be responsible for getting supplies for the meetings, etc.. A good leader should encourage as many parents to get GS training so that they can do more activities. Get multiple parents GS certified in first aid. Let the parents know that this is not a drop off service and encourage them to go camping, take the fear away from that. A leader who does not do this will find her self doing everything and being burned out.
Make sure that the girls have good activities planned in a healthy mix of girly girl stuff and challenging stuff (science experiments, camping). At their core the girls that are worth a damn want to be challenged and do new things that they wouldn't normally do. The PITAS will drop out in short order and believe you me, the troop will be better for it. Make the girls integral to planning all activities at an appropriate age level. By the 4th or 5th grades they should be almost running the show. Give the girls goals. That can be badges, trips, or rank. The GS equalivent to Eagle Scout is the Gold Award. Though less well known, it is held in the same high regard as the Eagle.
At the council level (which can cover a couple of counties to half a state) they do put on some great activities and have some great facilities. Summer camps are great. They have done harry potter themes weekend camping trips. They have resources out the wazoo. My girls have dissected sharks for example. Their camp grounds can be awesome, well maintained, and well stocked.

So in short, get a good leader and it can be an excellent opportunity for the girls. Better yet, if your wife has what it takes, tell her to be a leader and support her. It will cost you emotionally and physically. But your daughter is worth it.

Yours in Scouting
HES
Father of two Girl Scouts and one Webelo.

Was that what you wanted to know?

P.s. Do not let wife / beg your wife not to become the cookie mom. Your family room will be stacked to the gills with over a hundred CASES of cookies waiting to be distributed. She will be responsible if anyone scrams with the money.

[Honu]

yeah that helps and of course any others :)
and thanks for the time to write it up : )

the one thing sadly this day and age I dont believe in dropping my 6 year old off and leaving her ?
to much stuff happens it seems these days ?

but we think it would be good and we are active with our kids not over protective ? but involved

my worry was some of the stuff that they might try to pawn off on the kids if you get the wrong leader ?
and I would imagine it would boil down to who is leading it !

I was in scouts the bear and weblo ? weblow ? anyway :) ? but also was in sea scouts ? not sure if thats around still :) once my boy is older figure scouts will be good

[Honu]

anyone ?

[Safetyhit]

yeah that helps and of course any others :)
and thanks for the time to write it up : )

the one thing sadly this day and age I dont believe in dropping my 6 year old off and leaving her ?
to much stuff happens it seems these days ?

but we think it would be good and we are active with our kids not over protective ? but involved

my worry was some of the stuff that they might try to pawn off on the kids if you get the wrong leader ?
and I would imagine it would boil down to who is leading it !

I was in scouts the bear and weblo ? weblow ? anyway :) ? but also was in sea scouts ? not sure if thats around still :) once my boy is older figure scouts will be good



Honu, you seem like a great guy, so I am going to take a chance and tell you that the above is very confusing to read. I think I know what you are asking, but not 100% percent sure. It's a combination of brief, random comments mixed with inadequate punctuation that lead to the confusion.

So with that let's try to narrow it down a bit. What HES wrote above seems like all the basic stuff you would need to know. Especially the cookie part at the bottom :). Very nice of him to take the time, no doubt.

Beyond that, if you are still uncertain about those you are leaving your child with then you need to analyze them a bit further. Stand next to them, talk to them, look in their eyes as they speak. Ask the other parents what their thoughts are, who they speak well of and why. See who may not be so well liked and why. Then consider their mindset as best you can and determine if they seem credible.

If you choose to send her there, be as much a part of things as possible until you are comfortable with what you see around you. Also, ask her what her thoughts are and what she has been discussing while there.

I have a 6 year old son and would have the same reservations, although I don't think I would likely worry too much about what the boy scouts might try to "pawn off" on him. In that respect you seem to be assuming the worst. It is the girl scouts, after all.

Hope that helps a bit. No offense intended regarding the punctuation, just trying to assist you in getting your point across if possible.

[Honu]

no worries man :)
sorry I write very very poor ! I did not learn grammar at school :) and for some reason cant pick it up ?

so no offense at all :) and thanks for trying to help out ;) & appreciate the feedback :)

yeah I scrutinize anyone my kid has contact with and am not shy about asking certain things ?

not to worried about leaving them as much as I love being involved with my child so does the wife :) so it was more a question of try to write this more clear :)
have people had good luck getting involved with the scouts ? and avoid being the cookie lady ! anything else I might need to know about getting involved ?

I guess I am curious if others have had good experience with girl scouts ?

[Moose-Knuckle]

I sure hope GSA are doing a better job than the BSA (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/19/boy-scout-sex-abuse-files_n_506587.html) are. . .

[HES]

I just want to be clear that no matter what tone I may have had in my last post my girls had / have a great time in GS and am glad they were in it