View Full Version : thoughts on armalite
fivefivesix
09-15-10, 23:37
im building a third rifle, my first 2 builds were with spikes and bcm so please no pissing match. im just looking for honest no bs comments from people who have more experience than me with this company. i was wanting and looking at using armalite upper and lowers as the basis for a build as ive heard tha many le agencys and millitarys use them thoughts please
OneInchPunch
09-15-10, 23:57
i sell Armalite AR's at my store, and i will tell you what i tell my customers. they are great guns to start a build with, but to bring them up to the level of a BCM you will need to put some work into it. why not just go with a BCM anyway? they are similar prices.
Better options out there. AFAIK the US mil doesn't use Armalite. Any LE agency that does has made a poor choice. Why not build a BCM, DD, Colt, or Noveske?
im building a third rifle, my first 2 builds were with spikes and bcm so please no pissing match. im just looking for honest no bs comments from people who have more experience than me with this company. i was wanting and looking at using armalite upper and lowers as the basis for a build as ive heard tha many le agencys and millitarys use them thoughts please
The lower itself is a good starting point, as it's forged and I am pretty sure they use type III hard anodizing per the milspec.
I would buy my own receiver extension to ensure milspec diameter and consistency, and would use someone else's trigger group, unless the single stage was Ok for this build. I don't care for their tactical two stage feel, and their NM is a little light for a HD/Carbine setup.
From the specs on their site, they are using better barrel steel now, but still not sure they are fully complying with the testing of the bolts, carriers and barrels.
All that being said, their upper and lower receivers are fine starting points for a custom build where you select all the critical parts yourself and assemble them to something better than you can buy.
Shivan- I say this in a questioning, not asshole way. Wouldn't going with Armalite be inviting a higher probability of issues with either the upper or lower, as in out of spec, due to QC that isn't as good as BCM, DD, or Colt?
Any LE agency that does has made a poor choice.
and why is that exactly?
I recently converted an Armalite M15A2 musket into a carbine for someone locally. I couldn't find any issues with the lower. Everything else was swapped out.
I think using the lower will be fine. I have an Eagle Arms (Armalite) lower that I used on my Noveske for about 18 months and it worked 100%.
Shivan- I say this in a questioning, not asshole way. Wouldn't going with Armalite be inviting a higher probability of issues with either the upper or lower, as in out of spec, due to QC that isn't as good as BCM, DD, or Colt?
rychencop,
C'mon. You have been here long enough to know the shortcomings that are common to Armalite. I think we have even had a few recent threads regarding it.
and why is that exactly?
I'd say ArmaLite stripped uppers and lowers are as good as most other brands. They are well finished and everything is within spec.
If you want to have the ArmaLite logo right now Impact Guns has stripped lowers on sale for $119. DSG Arms sells ArmaLite single stage ($82) and two stage LPKs, etc. I agree with SHIVAN that you should look for a RE and stock kit other than ArmaLite. I've got a couple BCM kits and they're pretty hard to beat.
If you really, really want a midlength upper in 1:9 twist then a complete ArmaLite upper isn't a bad choice (since last time I checked they were $450 including BCG, CH and handguards) though you might want to upgrade the BCG with BCM, DD, etc. Another issue is the A2 height FSB, you'll probably need a taller front sight post like the one Bushmaster sells for $5.50. I got one last year and with those two upgrades it doesn't have any major deficiencies. (The barrel is only batch tested for HP and MPI but at least MIL-B-11595E milspec barrel steel is used.)
If you want a 1:7 twist of course as pointed out by others it makes sense to go with a BCM, DD, etc. upper. Such an upper on an ArmaLite lower should be an excellent rifle.
Wouldn't going with Armalite be inviting a higher probability of issues with either the upper or lower, as in out of spec, due to QC that isn't as good as BCM, DD, or Colt?
Their receivers are not where they chose to take their shortcuts. They took shortcuts in MP testing, barrel steel, twist rates, receiver extensions, stocks, and staking.
Blankwaffe
09-17-10, 04:38
Their receivers are not where they chose to take their shortcuts. They took shortcuts in MP testing, barrel steel, twist rates, receiver extensions, stocks, and staking.
And 8620 steel used for the bolt.
rychencop,
C'mon. You have been here long enough to know the shortcomings that are common to Armalite. I think we have even had a few recent threads regarding it.
yeah, but my agency is getting Oly's to replace our A1's so i was curious. they can't be worse than Oly's. :D
yeah, but my agency is getting Oly's to replace our A1's so i was curious. they can't be worse than Oly's. :D
:help:
justin_247
09-17-10, 07:02
yeah, but my agency is getting Oly's to replace our A1's so i was curious. they can't be worse than Oly's. :D
God help you all.
And 8620 steel used for the bolt.
Yep, though I think they are correcting a lot of these deficiencies in their newer production. It's simply too easy to source the correct parts nowadays.
i dont know to much about armalites but i had a oly and i know its not near to perfect but it ate anything i would put in the mag and as fast as i could pull the trigger, and for i think it was $500 the door i mean you get what youpay for.
sorry for getting off subject
oh yeah there not comparable to my az armory or any quality rifle.
fivefivesix
09-17-10, 13:09
i cant afford a bcm lower , i wish i could . so for the money im trying to get the best quality. armalite upper and lower with a better lpk, dd barrell, a2 stock, magpul pistol grip, and a bcm bcg, and rifle length handgaurd
God help you all.
lol...i use my personal rifle...but yes, nothing but problems with the Oly's. it's a shame Armalite has taken a turn for the worse.
it's a shame Armalite has taken a turn for the worse.
They are actually getting better now that they are addressing some of their past shortcuts.
I have a pretty recent Armalite NM trigger - it's actually pretty decent. Granted, I'm comparing this to an RRA, which also sits on recreational rifle lower, but it's fairly decent.
I would build a rifle off their lower, but I agree that it's hard to make a cost/value justification for Armalite when Spike's is cheaper and delivers more, and then BCM and Daniel Defense deliver tons more for the price of a couple bar tabs.
They are actually getting better now that they are addressing some of their past shortcuts.
that's good to hear. hate to see a good company go to sh*t.
thopkins22
09-17-10, 14:53
Armalite used to(maybe still does) supply quite a bit of technical information on their site. Enough so that even if they're building price point guns, I tend to believe that they understand the system and how to make one work within the confines of that.
I also believe they were among the first to really tout the benefits of extended gas systems over carbine length ones.
I don't own any, and they're not on my "want" list though.
OMG! What are they thinking? Why would you replace an A1 with a substandard Oly Arms?
I am sure that it is a price point thing.
yeah, but my agency is getting Oly's to replace our A1's so i was curious. they can't be worse than Oly's. :D
fivefivesix
09-17-10, 16:02
i wouldnt mind building another spikes but from what ive read they wont even hold up in a carbine course. now im wondering why its just and upper and lower and the bolt carrier would be either the spikes nikel boron or a bcm. dd chrome lined button rifled barrel. do the receivers take that much abuse
OMG! What are they thinking? Why would you replace an A1 with a substandard Oly Arms?
I am sure that it is a price point thing.
they are leased from the Army, so i guess they are slowly giving them back. makes no sense.
I would talk to whomever is in charge of the program and try to point out why there are better choices. Show them some stats and factual info.
I thought that weapons from the 10-33 Program were essentially free and only needed to be handed back when they military requested them.
they are leased from the Army, so i guess they are slowly giving them back. makes no sense.
yeah, but my agency is getting Oly's to replace our A1's so i was curious. they can't be worse than Oly's. :D
Is that deal finalized? God God! I can send you my collection of OLY FAIL stories if it'll help! :rolleyes:
Blankwaffe
09-17-10, 17:42
They are actually getting better now that they are addressing some of their past shortcuts.
Yeap,things that Shivan listed,and the bolt steel I mentioned are not new details.They are basically the same as they were in the 90's.
The change in barrel steel for the chrome lined standard barrels was an improvement I did not think would happen nearly as fast as it did. So they do listen to the customers wants and needs,albeit somewhat slowly,and make improvements.
That said Im not attempting to bash or throw Armalite under the bus either.Just the opposite of that.
Ive had Armalite rifles going back to the mid 1990's.The first AR I ever owned was in fact an Eagle Arms before MAW fired up the Armalite brand again.
I have discussed/mentioned Armalite here(and other forums) probably more than anyone over the years,and have retained a brand loyalty due to the fact Ive had good service from the company and its products as a whole for many years.I also like the fact they are and have remained privately owned company.
But,as a customer I would like,and want to see some change.
Thats why I routinely send feedback to Armalite on what I want/would like to see and ask why they do,or not do some of the things they do do.Yeap,Ive probably drove poor ole Tim Rooker at Armalite absolutely nuts with questions,comments,feedback etc. in regards to the rifles details,and he is to be commended for remaining tolerant and responsive.
IMHO Armalite does build excellent quality receivers,and Ive never had a complaint as they have always been very high quality and durable.Heck up until a couple years ago Armalite did not sell lowers,if you wanted a lower you had to buy a complete rifle.So again they changed policy to meet market demands.I think the fact that they mill their own receivers in house allows them to maintain a set quality standard for the Armalite roll marked lowers.Those that do not meet their QA/QC standards are sold as EA or blems.
IMHO Armalite does build a very good rifle,but is driven by trying to compete in the centralized market.Evidence of that is the prices they have has remained relatively the same for the last decade.
What Ive tried to get accross is that not everyone wants to buy at that level.If Armalite would build a rifle that is assembled correctly(RE staking etc.)and would use more spec'd materials on small parts(namely bolts and RE's)to meet said specifications of such quality they could sell alot more product and compete in the "tier 1" crowd.I know they can do it,which is why I chase that dog around the house frequently.
What I would currently like to see from Armalite as a customer is:
-Bolts made with Carpenter 158 steel.
-"Standard carriers"(full mass M16 type)rather than AR15 enhanced.
-Would prefer a 1:7 or 1:8 twist in the standard middy and rifle chrome lined barrels.
-RE's made of 7075T6(and castle nuts staked).
-And use the more durable furniture.A Magpul MOE equiped rifle would be a good option at similar price range.
Until then I will continue to molest the Armalite rifles,uppers and lowers I have with parts from BCM,LMT,DD etc....
YMMV.
Great post, Blankwaffe! Thank you for that information and for keeping ArmaLite on their toes. Mark Westrom needs to hire you as a consultant/product designer!
Blankwaffe
09-17-10, 22:56
Great post, Blankwaffe! Thank you for that information and for keeping ArmaLite on their toes. Mark Westrom needs to hire you as a consultant/product designer!
Hey Quentin,
You have Armalites,so you can help.Maybe if enough of the customer base would start to give feedback/product requests,Armalite will move to making a rifle and components that will meet or exceed what some folks on M4C want.That will be one more well known manufacturer to add to the ever growing list of "known quality"...which is always a good thing.
It pretty clear that Armalite will respond if there is a demand made known to them.The barrel steel change,and dropping the YFS gas keys screws is a couple very good examples,and how quickly they responded to the changes in twist rate and chamber dimension on the 6.8 SPC is another.
Yes sir, Mr. Blankwaffe! I'll have to start bugging TR too! :D
Sheesh, even a very inexpensive change like offering proper milspec height front/rear sights or at least make it known you'll need the Bushmaster 0.04" front sight post! Heck, at $5.50 a crack Customer Service should mail the tall post out free to anyone who requests one - like Umarex does for anyone who reports a zeroing problem with the Colt/Walther M4 .22LR.
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