Hybrid "Survival/SHTF" training course

[mikeross506]

I am in the process of drafting up the TTP's for a training course that would marry traditional Survivor skills with SHTF skills. The end goal being a program that will offer a strong set of "Realistic" skills a person may be forced to imply.

The odds of needing to create fire from two sticks is not near as great as the need of siphoning fuel or trouble shooting a faulty generator. While at the same time the ability to purify water or improvise shelter is a must. .

Does anyone have any other ideas of what could be implemented or know any one that has set up something similar to this?

[Rmplstlskn]

I think that is a great idea for a "survival" course...

Where to find "abandoned" fuel and how to get access to it... One doesn't want to become a looter of another's supplies.
How to pump out water from a well without electricity if clean surface water is not available...

I think for a shtf survival scenario, it should be BUG IN based as I think those who plan on throwing on their camo's, a back pack and hitting the woods won't last long in a REAL event...

Rmpl

[Keith E.]

Ears on.

Thanks, Keith

[Von Rheydt]

Moved

[mikeross506]

Mike, depends what level you intend to aim your course at. Firstly I would say people need the basics like rubbing sticks together before they can move through to more complicated tasks. Because if they do not understand the basics they will not be in a physical condition to undertake more complicated tasks such as generator repair should they ever be faced with a serious situation.

The basic building blocks as I was taught are:

Preparation and planning: Clothing, equipment, physical condition and multi skill training (first aid, navigation, etc). This minimises risks and dangers during a possible situation and ensures a more positive outcome.

During the situation there are 4 interchangeable priorities:

Protection: From the environment you are in and possible physical dangers.

Location: Positioning yourself to maximise your chance of rescue, defence and also survivability.

Water: You NEED to drink clean water.

Food: Eventually you will need to eat.

Within the priorities you need to include:

- emergency fire making - lighters can run out, matches can get wet,

- field water purification - including use of proprietary and improvised water purification devices,

- planned shelter building - tarps & tents,

- improvised shelter building - using differing materials for differing geographical zones,

- use of outdoor tools - knife, saw & axe,

- food preparation,

- basic plant ID.

The military spends three weeks teaching people just these basics, later there are more advanced course. I would run a two parter if I was you: Introductory skills; advanced skills. That way you will have touched on most parts with people.

In the end, I am sure there will be a variety of course levels.


I disagree about needing to know how to rub sticks together before you can troubleshoot a generator. They are completely unrelated in every sense. Sure lighters run out and matches get wet but instead of falling back to the sticks if this happens, a person needs to simply go out and secure a new supply of alternate fire. As was stated in my opening, we are not in a the wilderness but a more realistic situation. The entire point of the course is to weed the the less practical and substitute it with the non-traditional. While there is a great possibility that we'll also offer a pure survival/wilderness course, it is not the focus of what I am discussing in this thread.

This has helped to drive home the point that I'm circling. When people think of survival training all of those traditional skills come to mind. And while I'm not saying the are not worth learning, odds are they will be called on far after other skills. How many people (this forum is a little one sided. I'm referring to general public) would be able to diagnose and repair minor malfunctions of their weapons? Being able to make educated decisions when stranded on a country road. Would you run straight to the woods, build a fire, and start tying together pine branches for shelter or rather access you situation, attempt to troubleshoot the vehicle and make expedient repairs if possible, and then follow the road to the nearest population while staying safely out of sight?

We need to be prepared to use all of our technology to our advantage and save the traditional for the extreme and playing around during camping trips.

[mikeross506]

I think that is a great idea for a "survival" course...

Where to find "abandoned" fuel and how to get access to it... One doesn't want to become a looter of another's supplies.
How to pump out water from a well without electricity if clean surface water is not available...

I think for a shtf survival scenario, it should be BUG IN based as I think those who plan on throwing on their camo's, a back pack and hitting the woods won't last long in a REAL event...

Rmpl

Your dead on track with what I am working towards! Keep the ideas coming! Thanks.

[Von Rheydt]

I know what you are trying to formulate.

However, trying to teach civilians skills that professional soldiers and LEO's have been on career development courses for is not an easy matter. Added to which soldiers and LEO's build up practical experience as they move thru all levels of their career and training.

I'm not saying you should not teach basic maintenance or scavenging skills. But with Mrs Sally Paperpusher and Mr Freddy Computer-Analyst you honestly need to start with the basics. Even if it is only a couple of days.

[mikeross506]

I know what you are trying to formulate.

However, trying to teach civilians skills that professional soldiers and LEO's have been on career development courses for is not an easy matter. Added to which soldiers and LEO's build up practical experience as they move thru all levels of their career and training.

I'm not saying you should not teach basic maintenance or scavenging skills. But with Mrs Sally Paperpusher and Mr Freddy Computer-Analyst you honestly need to start with the basics. Even if it is only a couple of days.

For the record, I teach civilians military skills for a living.

You are completely misunderstanding me. Improvised shelters and purifying water are traditional basics that will hold true in multiple scenarios. However, if a course was to be held that covered every basic drill there would be absolutely no time for the modern TTP's. Obviously, a person has to already hold a BASIC knowledge in general field craft. That is not what is being taught. What the whole idea is built around it "hybrid" training. Just as 95% of people reading this forum have an above average knowledge already.

I'm not here trying to create a doctrine to be accepted by the red cross or boy scouts. I am modifying what is old to better serve us with what is new. If I was instructing a platoon of Rangers running LRS missions I would throw in some stick rubbing. Instead, I will be teaching people living with technology how to better use it...I really didn't intend on this thread becoming a debate. Rather, I was hoping to pool the resources of like minded individuals...

[zpo]

I've been thinking of wrapping and frapping for a lot of problems that can come up. From building useful structures to stabilizing preexisting useful structures, you don't always have the tools to weld, screw/bolt, and attach any other way. And it works on everything from stone ax chopped wood, PVC from the ditch, pipe in the scrap pile, to scavenged angle iron off a construction site.

[d90king]

Take a look at Sayoc Tactical Group. I believe they are going to start offering UE&E courses in the near future.

[NavyDavy55]

Mike, depends what level you intend to aim your course at. Firstly I would say people need the basics like rubbing sticks together before they can move through to more complicated tasks. Because if they do not understand the basics they will not be in a physical condition to undertake more complicated tasks such as generator repair should they ever be faced with a serious situation.

The basic building blocks as I was taught are:

Preparation and planning: Clothing, equipment, physical condition and multi skill training (first aid, navigation, etc). This minimises risks and dangers during a possible situation and ensures a more positive outcome.

During the situation there are 4 interchangeable priorities:

Protection: From the environment you are in and possible physical dangers.

Location: Positioning yourself to maximise your chance of rescue, defence and also survivability.

Water: You NEED to drink clean water.

Food: Eventually you will need to eat.

Within the priorities you need to include:

- emergency fire making - lighters can run out, matches can get wet,

- field water purification - including use of proprietary and improvised water purification devices,

- planned shelter building - tarps & tents,

- improvised shelter building - using differing materials for differing geographical zones,

- use of outdoor tools - knife, saw & axe,

- food preparation,

- basic plant ID.

The military spends three weeks teaching people just these basics, later there are more advanced course. I would run a two parter if I was you: Introductory skills; advanced skills. That way you will have touched on most parts with people.

If I was looking for an "entry level" course, these are the topics I would be looking for.

[mikeross506]

Take a look at Sayoc Tactical Group. I believe they are going to start offering UE&E courses in the near future.

Thanks for the link. I've been sorting through a wealth of information on the subject at hand! Never fails to amaze me what we can uncover on the web...

[K.L. Davis]

I know a couple of people that have worked on putting a course like this together - "MacGyver School" if you will.

The biggest problem that they ran into was that the ability to rebuild a Briggs & Stratton, pick a lock, run a buzz-box welder, and set up a SCUBA outfit were things that most people just learn along the way... add tie a Windsor, muzzle a dog, address a crowd, and fold a pocket-square, and you have sort of the curriculum for "man school" - or the next "50 Things a Man Should Know" article from Popular Mechanics.

The irony being that a lot of guys that can do all the above, don't know how to start a fire with a bow-drill or set a deadfall trap.

I have worked with a group that does courses for people traveling to potentially dangerous places, and I like to apply the old "best way to avoid being hit, is to not be there when the punch is thrown" - as I have told a lot of young men, that means more than just side-stepping a haymaker, it means doing some ORM and listening to that voice that says that bar you are heading towards looks like a good place to get in a fight.

Another problem was that... well, this type of course is just not sexy; you have to appeal to people that need the training, or are possessed of extraordinary common sense.

I suspect you want to go beyond the "what is the safest floor in a hotel" and why you want pack a light nylon windbreaker... I look forward to seeing what the members here bring up!

ETA: I read over my original post; it contributes nothing to the topic really. So, here is my (hopefully useful) addition to the thread: Weather Forecasting - using only your five senses and common tools (think Pathfinder watch), be able to tell weather trends, especially upcoming storm conditions. Also, use local indicators to determine potential weather problems... As an example: we were getting ready to go out one night, the local WX report said the low that night should have been in the 50s - however, there was recent frost damage to the brush outside of where we were staying, and on the way in we noticed locals bagging fruit trees. It dropped into the 30s that night.

[Neville]

These days many jobs seem to be full of highly detailed expert knowledge. But for an example, take a dentist or a GP med.- 90% of their job is routine with fairly easy to learn diagnostic knowledge and practical skills. The same goes true for vets, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, gunsmiths. I always thought that the ultimate SHTF preparation must be to absorb basic "practical knowledge" in the well structured form of several weekend classes. I am sure an expert teacher/trainer could equally destill the basics principles of outdoor survival, E&E, or tactical/selfdefense stuff* and squeeze it in to. Call it the "Minuteman Program" and I am sure it would generate LOTS of interest.



*a good example would be John Farnam's destilled NTI experiences. No fuss
or storytelling, just the essential stuff:

PRINCIPLES

Ø DECISIVENESS Decisiveness is probably the most important of all tactical skills. If you're going to exit, do it quickly and don't come back. Get distance and get out of sight. If you're going to disengage, do it aggressively, then exit quickly even if you have to push past or push through people. If you're going to engage, do it quickly and with exorbitant violence. Don't hesitate. Don't start to do one thing, then stop and start to do something else. A confused countenance always fixes you in one position and generates a focused response by predators.

ØALERTNESS The more warning you have, the more time you have to put a plan together. You must make it a habit of looking all around constantly. I find the "Step-and-Scan" technique to be particularly valuable in this regard.

ØSMOOTH AGGRESSIVENESS If you have a plan, it must be executed seamlessly, with great force and speed, and without delay. Don't vacillate and don't falter.

ØHAVE A PLAN. Accept the fact that it won't be perfect, but, without one, you will dither and hesitate. When you become overwhelmed, take a breath, reform you plan and continue.

ØYOU NEED YOUR HANDS TO FIGHT. In an emergency, if you have something in your hands that is not important and is not helping you right now, it needs to be immediately jettisoned, so that your hands are free to do the important work at hand.

ØMOVEMENT Whether you're engaging or exiting, aggressive movement will invariably unbalance your opponent(s). We see it again and again. Unless you're in a strong, covered position, you must be moving constantly.

ØKEEP MAXIMUM STRENGTH ON YOUR GUN. A strong, tight Weaver stance is always best. People who hyper-extend their pistols, particularly when they are shooting one-handed, betray their position, get disarmed, or get shot in the arm. Don't stick your pistol where angels fear to tread! The Isosceles stance is NOT suitable for serious shooting.

ØMAKE USE OF COVER AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY, BUT DON'T CROWD IT: Moving to cover needs to be an automatic response, but many shooters crowded it and were thus unable to use it effectively. The "Rollout" technique will always maximize your advantage.

ØDON'T POINT YOUR GUN AT YOURSELF: It's difficult to imagine how shooting yourself in the middle of a tactical situation would be helpful to you! And yet, we saw many ostensibly experienced gunmen point their pistol at their weak-side hand more or less contiguously as they moved through tactical exercises. Muzzle consciousness is something that every aspiring gunman should learn on the first day of his training, but the lesson is long on many when things get exciting.

[mikeross506]

The last few posters have brought valid points to my eyes. I'm afraid that the average "man", in the 20-30 year old range, do NOT know how to perform the basics. Let's face it, they may be able to digitally recreate the sun but they have little motivation to get their hands dirty. (I am a member of this group, and although I chose the military road, it infuriates me to watch my friends lag behind.) That being said, they are only one demographic we are hoping to reach.

We have also been taking care to make the classes as interesting and entertaining as possible while maintaining the attention to detail necessary to teach the curriculum. It does prove to be a challenge. I do like the idea of a "folk lore" based class. I've spent my life living in the country and the generations before me are a wealth of knowledge based towards predicting weather, planting and harvest times, and general field craft wisdom. (I had always remained apprehensive towards it until a few years ago my Grandfather and I had an informal survey of the predictions and results. Needless to say, I'm a firm believer!)

I would like to brush on principles because I firmly believe a survival situation will only be successful if you maintain the WILL. At the same time, I don't want to infringe on the tactical world. My reservations are that low or no-skilled attendees will want more than just big picture basics. More or less turning the instruction into a full on tactical course. Plus, we have the safety issue of using live firearms at a public event. It would require a severe level of resources to ensure safety. There are alot of Rambo types that this event will likely draw....

By all means keep the ideas and criticisms coming! This is my first venture into the realm of conventions! Thanks Guys!

[Neville]

Have you looked at John Seymore's books? Might be perfect for you. I would consider putting together a reading/DVD list so that they can deepen knowledge further after class. Most newbies will be very glad that somebody sorts out for them what is good and whats not.

In terms of self defense- I wasn't thinking actual weapon training or even en detail discussion of weapons choices, but simply pointing things like home/perimeter security, personal defense principles, etc. out. For example, I would definitely recommend SouthNarc / Shivworks Practical Unarmed Combat DVD - because it teaches you how to "read" people, as body language of human predators is pretty universal. Add to that the book "The Gift of Fear" to learn to really trust your gut instincts. Give them a mindset start and point them to good ressources for further training.

[Muddyboots]

Survival:Many people get it backwards and teach it backwards too. There is an emphasis on "Urban" now because it sells. If you are cold, you are cold. If you need water you need water. It doesn't matter if you are in the backcountry or Harvard Yard. Solve the problem by understanding concepts and then applying common sense. Is that generator needed for survival? Probably not. Is it useful in improving the lives of potentially hundreds? Hell YES! If you look at a concept called Disaster Commonality you will find that it's a lot simpler from that point of view.

I applaud anyone who teaches anything that makes people more independent, self reliant and responsible for their own lives!!!

Look up The Survival Podcast (and their forum) And The Hoodlums Forum, Both talk about these issues and are open to real discussion.

Mods, please edit as appropriate.

Muddyboots

[ASH556]

This is when I'm thankful to be an Eagle Scout. I was learning a lot of these skills as I grew up, but it's amazing to go camping with folks who don't know basic stuff. Especially those in the "Elite REI" crowd. They show up with $10K worth of Northface/Mtn Hardware/ETC gear, and can't even gather proper firewood to use their whiz-bang micro blow-torch on. :rolleyes:

In terms of training ideas, you may see if you can find a quality scout troop in your area and attend a few outings with them. That or get an old Scout Handbook (You'll need one at least 3 or 4 editions old). You'd be amazed what's written in those things.

[HES]

Good point. We have been hammering home survival skills in our scout troop.

[tc556guy]

However, trying to teach civilians skills that professional soldiers and LEO's have been on career development courses for is not an easy matter. Added to which soldiers and LEO's build up practical experience as they move thru all levels of their career and training.


Not to pop your bubble, but your average LEO has NO training in this sort of thing.
Even your average .mil person isn't going to have much of the live-off-the-land training. What most Army/ Marine guys will have after the last decade is some experience with living in a Third World environment and the deprivations that go along with that. IOW, they know how to suck it up without complaining. USAF and Navy types when deployed tended to live on decent sized FOBs, so they wont have that "lived-in-the-dirt" experience of the combat arms guys.

What I'd do is link up with your local prepper network. Run any training materials by them as test subjects. When the material is refined, put it out for general consumption

[Tortuga]

If I understand you correctly, your target audience for this product already has a firm base of fundamental survival skills and you want to build on that with urban and modern technology, yes?

The problem with urban operations and exploiting technology, unlike old school survival, much of it is NOT labeled for public consumption...at least considered FOUO (for offical use only).

With that, a lot of folks in the know can't answer your call with all of the good info you're asking for.

[hatidua]

a back pack and hitting the woods won't last long in a REAL event...

Rmpl

I do it on a very regular basis, for FUN, but find the various online threads about surviving in the woods laughable at best (not to mention the 95#s of ammo that most want to bring). In my area, above treeline, when the food in the pack runs out, the game is pretty much over. How much can your Gregory/Act'teryx/Deuter pack hold?!