help with a Sig p226 i just made a mistake i think... [Archive]

davebee456

09-18-10, 12:32

help with a Sig p226 i just made a mistake i think...
should i have bought this new may 2009 manufactured Sig P226R>?
i did something dumb and traded a Hk P7m8 for it.
I just always wanted a P226R and have another P7M8 LNIB from 2008.
Anyways now i am reading horrible stories of Sig QC and stories of unreliability. I never heard of this with the 226 I know they went with an external extractor and milled steel slide..
Any one out there who can tell me how great the Sig 226r is...
Or did i make a huge mistake.

John Hearne

09-18-10, 12:52

I've had a lot of issues with P220s in 45ACP. With that said, I'd worry a lot less about a P226 in 9mm. There is a lot difference in the stresses the two respective cartridges put on the internals of the pistols. P220s will break takedown levers, I've not heard of P226's (same part) doing that.

Business_Casual

09-18-10, 12:56

There are existing threads that talk about SIG QC in detail. Did you do a search yet?

B_C

Entropy

09-18-10, 14:04

In 2005, Ron Cohen took over operations at SigArms. His business model was to make the company more money. To do this, Sig had to undergo a lot of changes....including changing their company name to Sig Sauer USA.

Between 2005-2007 was the most turbulent time. Sig changed almost all of their existing small parts vendors, experimented with other slide materials, and made their own attempt at producing frames in the USA with a different alloy. Unfortunately, it was this time period that gave Sig its negative reputation. Departments were complaining of small parts breaking, frames cracking, and slides deforming. I have a 2007 P226R 9mm which has close to 10k rounds through it without any problems though. 9mm is pretty gentle on guns.

However, I believe that Sig is getting their s**t together. Cohen basically threw out many of the lessons learned by the old Sig Arms, and now Sig Sauer is having to relearn them all over again. They are addressing old problems such as grip screws with the E2 modification. I've stripped out a few grip screw threads on Sigs over the years while doing armorer work on them. Grip screws are the #1 weak point of the Sig design. They are figuring out what materials work and which ones don't. Also, the newer Sigs are a little better cosmetically, and the triggers are more refined.

I wouldn't worry about your P226 unless you are actually experiencing problems with it. Shoot it a bunch, if it does okay, then don't worry about it. Have an armorer do a regular service on it every 3-5 years, and enjoy.

HK45

09-18-10, 16:13

I used to be a big Sig fan. You couldn't give me one now. I know many other longtime Sig fans who say the same thing. I'm am not at all surprised that the current CEO at Sig used to be the CEO at Kimber. Save a couple hundred dollars and buy a Glock or M&P.

Dapimpspimp

09-18-10, 17:06

We run Sig P226's and P226R's at work in .40 cal. We had P226's in 9mm before that. Some of the 9mm's had well over 100,000 rounds with out parts breakage. We haven't seen any major issues P226's other than new versions of the takedown lever breaking.

My agency allows officers to carry P220's, including the elites, as long as the officer buys their own weapon. I have been carrying various P220's over the past 11 years and can honestly say that they are not that durable. Trigger bar return springs, takedown levers, and magazine springs are the main culprits. As long as you replace these parts every 2,000 to 3,000 rounds, you'll be fine.

davebee456

09-18-10, 17:30

the magazines have a rough sandy finish i dont like at all...
and the grips rear edge looks ill fitted, and thats all for now..
ill shoot it till it breaks lol

sparky241

09-18-10, 18:06

7PI

09-19-10, 03:50

I have a DEC 2008, P226R-9-Elite that I have over 20,000 through. The only thing I have had to do is swap out the springs, (recoil, main, take down lever, trigger bar, firing pin & decocking lever) every 5000 or so. Probably didn't have to do them all, but it seems like cheap insurance to me.

I have not had an issue that wasn't mag related yet. Run it until you either break it or trust it.

Jim D

09-19-10, 15:55

ive had mine since 2002. bought it used,The only problem i had was the recoil spring needed to be replaced after like 5000rds. thats it. shoot it till it stops.take all the bad publicity with a grain of salt. just because some have had problems doesnt always mean your will too.

So, you want to compare pistols made on completely different tooling, make to different standards, when the company was owned and run by very different people?

Should we compare the quality of Fords made in 1975 to Fords made today, too?

http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm

record was kept of any stoppages or malfunctions that occurred during the live fire testing.[3] These records show that ATF's agents recorded 58 stoppages with Sig Sauer's full-size and compact pistols, 13 of which were considered to be gun-induced and 45 shooter-induced.[4] Id., Tab 2, Competitive Range Determination, at 3.[5] In contrast, the agents recorded a total of 16 shooter‑induced stoppages for Smith & Wesson's guns and 7 shooter-induced stoppages for Glock's guns. There were no gun-induced stoppages recorded for the Smith & Wesson or Glock guns.

Sig Sauer also contends that ATF placed too great an emphasis upon reliability in determining which offers should continue to phase III. In this regard, Sig Sauer argues that reliability was only one of a number of elements to be considered in the live-fire assessment, and notes that reliability was not identified as having any more importance than the other elements.

arizonaranchman

09-19-10, 16:28

My agency has used P226's since 1998 and had outstanding service from them. I'm the Sig armorer for my agency so I know. Now that being said, nearly all the guns we have are from prior to 2005 so that may be the reason for having virtually zero problems with our guns. They've had many thousands of rounds thru them with virtually no failures of any kind (we have about 300 guns in our agency).

I'll have to watch in the future for new guns coming thru for these issues mentioned.

7PI

09-19-10, 18:13

So, you want to compare pistols made on completely different tooling, make to different standards, when the company was owned and run by very different people?

Should we compare the quality of Fords made in 1975 to Fords made today, too?

http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm

In fairness to Sig, the ATF tested the polymer modular gun Model P250. I agree that the Classic Line is not as good as it once was, but the P250 line was never a good idea. Especially in anything other than a 9mm. The P250 and the vendor changes at Sig are what happens when greed mixes with bad decision making.

The original P250s were plagued with trigger bar spring issues and now many of the .40, .357 Sig and .45 models tend to let the slide catch lever spring walk out from under the lever causing it to move up and down uninhibited.

The P250 is another emanation from the Ron Cohen run factory in Epping. A factory and company that seems to be all about profits. They are a business so I imagine that is what they should be all about.

FWIW: If I wanted to be treated badly by a manufacturer, I would have bought an H&K. :suicide2:

I have a few modern era Sigs that I trust so they are not all bad. It is just unfortunate that we now pay close to a grand for a pistol with MIM and plastic parts with a spotty reputation. There was a time when I would trust a Sig right out of the box. That was when they were made in Germany.

Keith E.

09-19-10, 20:42

P220's................. Trigger bar return springs

This.

Keith

Jim D

09-19-10, 21:25

In fairness to Sig, the ATF tested the polymer modular gun Model P250. I agree that the Classic Line is not as good as it once was, but the P250 line was never a good idea. Especially in anything other than a 9mm. The P250 and the vendor changes at Sig are what happens when greed mixes with bad decision making.

The original P250s were plagued with trigger bar spring issues and now many of the .40, .357 Sig and .45 models tend to let the slide catch lever spring walk out from under the lever causing it to move up and down uninhibited.

The P250 is another emanation from the Ron Cohen run factory in Epping. A factory and company that seems to be all about profits. They are a business so I imagine that is what they should be all about.

FWIW: If I wanted to be treated badly by a manufacturer, I would have bought an H&K. :suicide2:

I have a few modern era Sigs that I trust so they are not all bad. It is just unfortunate that we now pay close to a grand for a pistol with MIM and plastic parts with a spotty reputation. There was a time when I would trust a Sig right out of the box. That was when they were made in Germany.

Yes, it was the 250...but it still has Sigs name on it.

Is there an explanation for the 229's in .357SIG that the FAM's sent back to Sig because of quality problems?

I've seen quite a few pieces fall off P229's and P239's. Lets not forget the takedown lever problems the 220's had, either.

Here's a picture I took in February of 2008 of a 9mm P239 with only a few rounds through it. This was a new gun that went into our rental program and had it's rear sight fall off within a few days.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/fsonly.jpg

davebee456

09-19-10, 23:54

okay thanks for making me realize i am stupid!
What should i do if this p226r is a lemon, anyway to get all my money back from sig or only sell at loss.

Magic_Salad0892

09-20-10, 02:42

The only Sig Sauer pistol I'd willingly own is the P226 ''Navy'' (phosphate coated internals.)

Or a P228. Which I have a fondness for, and want to own one, once SIG gets their shit together.

All other models I've seen have problems.

7PI

09-20-10, 10:51

Yes, it was the 250...but it still has Sigs name on it.

Is there an explanation for the 229's in .357SIG that the FAM's sent back to Sig because of quality problems?

I've seen quite a few pieces fall off P229's and P239's. Lets not forget the takedown lever problems the 220's had, either.

Here's a picture I took in February of 2008 of a 9mm P239 with only a few rounds through it. This was a new gun that went into our rental program and had it's rear sight fall off within a few days.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/fsonly.jpg

Absolutely. I agree they all, including the classic line guns have issues. It is a hit and miss type of proposition when buying a Sig now.

The best ones to have are stamped Made in W. Germany on the slide. Back when pride and craftsmanship was more important than profits and number of units sold.

I have to wonder what the USAM Service was thinking when they adopted the P250C-.357. I like the cartridge, but the system leaves a lot to be desired.

7PI

09-20-10, 10:55

okay thanks for making me realize i am stupid!
What should i do if this p226r is a lemon, anyway to get all my money back from sig or only sell at loss.

You were not being stupid. Run it hard and if it doesn't break you can trust it.

No matter which machine I pick up, regardless of the reputation of the manufacturer, I still test it myself so that I know.

Give it a try. You may have a good one.

Jgyolai

09-21-10, 00:13

I have a 2008 p226 in 9mm and I haven't had a single problem with it. I've put over 4000 rounds through it, too. You will probably be fine.

MikePapa1

09-21-10, 12:19

I'm sorry but a lot of this anti Sig talk is simply silly. I've had Sigs since the 1980's. I still carry the Sig 226 in 9mm I've had since 1987. It has fired first time every time with any kind of ammunition for all that time. It has never had any new parts in all that time except a new recoil spring.

I also have a 250 2Sum in 9mm that have functioned flawlessly since their purchase earlier this Spring and two 238s are, functioning though not quite flawlessly. They both had feed issues but after polishing the ramps have functioned with everything I've put through them since.

Sigs are wonderful pistols. Not perfect, but close to it. If you don't want your 226, please feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to take it off your hands.

gtmtnbiker98

09-21-10, 13:04

FWIW: If I wanted to be treated badly by a manufacturer, I would have bought an H&K. :suicide2:

.A thread about Sig turns to HK bashing, how epic. So, we can base this on your personal experience or just what you've read? :sarcastic:

davebee456

09-21-10, 14:25

Entropy

09-21-10, 14:27

okay thanks for making me realize i am stupid!
What should i do if this p226r is a lemon, anyway to get all my money back from sig or only sell at loss.

I think that you would be "stupid" if you got rid of the Sig without running it hard first to determine if there are any problems.

ucrt

09-21-10, 15:33

I think it was a "mistake" but not a "huge mistake" and I'm only saying a "mistake" because you got rid of a most desirable pistol (P7) for a common one. It's not like you traded for a P85 or a Llama or something.

You have two options: keep it or sell it.

I wouldn't keep it expecting it to appreciate significantly, especially at the same rate like the P7; I'd keep it only to shoot it. I have several SIGs and overall, they are good. Shoot it to find out how it holds up.

If you're going to sell it, keep it mint, put a fair price on it, and let the hide go with the hair. Chalk the money loss up for tuition to the SOHK (School of Hard Knocks) :)

.

kartoffel

09-21-10, 15:46

I'm am not at all surprised that the current CEO at Sig used to be the CEO at Kimber.

I'm sorry but a lot of this anti Sig talk is simply silly. I've had Sigs since the 1980's. I still carry the Sig 226 in 9mm I've had since 1987. It has fired first time every time with any kind of ammunition for all that time. It has never had any new parts in all that time except a new recoil spring.

Clackamas Kimbers were pretty good, too.

msap

09-21-10, 16:04

My PD went to the 226 40. around 2005. We've had zero issues with them so far. I have thousands of rounds through my duty weapon and I'm fully confident in it. I also have 220ST from 2003, it shoots great and never a problem. Take your Sig out and blast the hell out of...report back.

interfan

09-21-10, 16:16

A P226 (at least for me) is a great shooting gun. When you go and shoot your, go with an open mind and free from any expectations of problems, failures, or the influence of other people's advice. Just have fun with it.

Clint Eastwood said it best: "Regret is a waste of time..."

Mark71

09-21-10, 16:42

What should i do if this p226r is a lemon, anyway to get all my money back from sig or only sell at loss.

If you still like the gun you can send it to Bruce Gray and staff and let them work their magic on the gun. They will address any reliability issues and tune the trigger to make your P226 a great shooter.

http://grayguns.com/

davebee456

09-21-10, 17:23

greyguns is one of the reasons i wanted a Sig p226r, I have a Mint Nib Hk P7m8 and i traded the older one for the sig because the older p7m8 had some issues locking back on empty and etc...

I thought I might send in Sig P226r to greyguns.

I used to think i should have two of the same guns but with Hk, Glock and Sig I thought its kinda silly cause those 3 companies guns are of such quality that its not like they break all the time,

7PI

09-21-10, 17:32

A thread about Sig turns to HK bashing, how epic. So, we can base this on your personal experience or just what you've read? :sarcastic:

I wasn't bashing HK at all. I love the guns and would readily trust my life to any of the ones I own. Especially my P30.

And...that is based on personal and first hand professional experience.

What I was referring to was the customer service end of their programs. It seems to me, through my personal experience, that most of the manufacturers have slacked off in the customer service department.

For me it is everything from trying to get an RMA to just ordering spare parts. The people I have spoken with don't have the knowledge base like they used to. At least it seems that way to me based solely on my interactions with them.

I'm not bashing HK or Sig. They all have their individual challenges. Some more than others. That being said, they are good guns and once vetted, I would carry either brand any day, anywhere.

Please don't read into it. I never intended it to be a bashing of the guns.

John_Wayne777

09-21-10, 18:38

thanks
i just cant believe the anti- sig talk even on the sigforum,
the first handgun i ever shot was sig sauer p226 in 1990,
ive always wanted one, but when its my time to buy them people talk about sig like its a taurus even on Sigforum...
I didnt like seeing a plastic guide rod in my 226r but untill i put 200 rounds through it i will reserve judgement.

Sig sucks considerably more than they used to. I personally have no interest in anything they are selling these days...

...but you've already bought one. So just go out and shoot it and see if it works. If it works and you like it, it's a win. If it doesn't work, try to get Sig to fix it. If you like it and they fix it, it's a win.

Sig's QC and customer service are not what they once were...but that doesn't mean your gun will blow up in your hands or that they'll sick attack dogs on you. Shoot it and see how it works. Then take it from there.

derrelw

09-21-10, 19:06

I own 4 Sigs and love them all. I have a P239, 2 P229's and a P226 and after many thousand rounds through them I'm proud to say I have yet to have a failure of any kind with any of them ( all 9mm's btw). They like to be WELL lubed so don't spare the grease. Good luck and don't give up on it I think you have a winner.