Pistol Zero

[NMBigfoot02]

So I was at the range the other day shooting from 7-15yds, and I noticed that while my pistol was pretty much dead on at the 7 & 10 yd lines, at 15 yds the rounds were impacting low. The rounds were low enough to make a center torso shot into a lower abdomen shot. I was under the impression that the standard zero for handguns was 25 yds, but I have no reference as to why this would be true.

Should I bother trying to zero my handgun for a different range, or should I just learn where the rounds impact at various ranges?

Is there a "standard" zero for handguns or did I just pull the 25 yd figure out of my ass?

[DasBulk]

So I was at the range the other day shooting from 7-15yds, and I noticed that while my pistol was pretty much dead on at the 7 & 10 yd lines, at 15 yds the rounds were impacting low. The rounds were low enough to make a center torso shot into a lower abdomen shot. I was under the impression that the standard zero for handguns was 25 yds, but I have no reference as to why this would be true.

Should I bother trying to zero my handgun for a different range, or should I just learn where the rounds impact at various ranges?

Is there a "standard" zero for handguns or did I just pull the 25 yd figure out of my ass?
Out of your ass.
Different sights on different guns have different POI. Some also have different holds. My Rugers have a six oclock hold. My Glock and HK have top of blade POI.

[Business_Casual]

So I was at the range the other day shooting from 7-15yds, and I noticed that while my pistol was pretty much dead on at the 7 & 10 yd lines, at 15 yds the rounds were impacting low. The rounds were low enough to make a center torso shot into a lower abdomen shot. I was under the impression that the standard zero for handguns was 25 yds, but I have no reference as to why this would be true.

Should I bother trying to zero my handgun for a different range, or should I just learn where the rounds impact at various ranges?

Is there a "standard" zero for handguns or did I just pull the 25 yd figure out of my ass?

It is a flinch - at the closer ranges you can't see it because you are shooting at targets that are too large and you are accepting too low a level of accuracy. At the longer ranges, both problems are showing up in your sight alignment/trigger control and putting the shots way low.

Think about it - a 9mm being off by a foot at that range? Not possible.

B_C

[MarshallDodge]

You should not see that big of a difference between 7 and 25 yards. It depends on the caliber you shoot but even a 45ACP will only vary by a couple inches at the most.

I would benchrest the gun and try to be as consistent as possible when taking your shots.

[Entropy]

It is a flinch - at the closer ranges you can't see it because you are shooting at targets that are too large and you are accepting too low a level of accuracy. At the longer ranges, both problems are showing up in your sight alignment/trigger control and putting the shots way low.

Think about it - a 9mm being off by a foot at that range? Not possible.

B_C

+1

Sounds like trigger jerk, and/or anticipated recoil. We all get it to some extent, but some have it more than others. For sighting the pistol in, use a benchrest and very slow and controlled straight back pulls. 15-25yrds is the ideal sighting range. To minimize trigger jerk, doing a lot of dry fire practicing and maintaining as steady as possible of a sight picture. There should be minimal movement of your sight picture after you've pulled the trigger. Pull the trigger at a consistant rate and imagine that the distance that you have to pull before it breaks is greater than it should be. That will help you get that "surprise" when the pistol goes off and minimize trigger jerk and recoil anticipation.

[R Moran]

I don't think the 25yard zero range is pulled out of your ass. Its goes back to bullseye shooting, when the standard distances were 25 and 50 yards. While most PD's have long abandoned such distances, my organization only recently dropped the 50, but still require shots from the 25 yard line.

I do not think making COM hits at 25 and 50 yards/meters is a hard or unusual standard.

I once asked Vickers about pistol zeros and accuracy. He stated:

Zero a 25yards/mtrs
Zero from a standard 2 hand off hand position, as using a rest can sometimes effect your poi
The individual should be able to shoot into a 6" group at 25yds/mtrs(basically a head shot)minimum
The gun's, mechanical accuracy should be approximately 1/2 that. So from a rest, it should shoot into 2-3" max, tighter is better.

Obviously this should be done with your chosen duty or carry load, as there can be significant accuracy differences from duty ammo to practice/training ammo.

You should be able to put every round into a single hole at 3-5mtrs,offhand, if you cant do that, theres little use in moving back.

Bob

[An Undocumented Worker]

It is a flinch - at the closer ranges you can't see it because you are shooting at targets that are too large and you are accepting too low a level of accuracy. At the longer ranges, both problems are showing up in your sight alignment/trigger control and putting the shots way low.

Think about it - a 9mm being off by a foot at that range? Not possible.

B_C

Yeah the way the OP described it, he'd have to be shooting paintballs for it not to be a trigger manipulation issue.

[arizonaranchman]

It is a flinch - at the closer ranges you can't see it because you are shooting at targets that are too large and you are accepting too low a level of accuracy. At the longer ranges, both problems are showing up in your sight alignment/trigger control and putting the shots way low.

Think about it - a 9mm being off by a foot at that range? Not possible.

B_C

I agree, you're jerking the trigger and it's only apparent when you get out to the longer ranges. Go to 25 yds and it wont even be on the torso probably. Work on your trigger pull.

[6933]

25yd. zero is the standard. Different pistols, when zeroed properly, should have basically the same POI; as in if you have 3 diff. pistols and all are zeroed by the same competent person for same shot placement, they should each hit in the same general area. Holding the 6 o'clock position, the ice cream cone, is not correct except for Sigs(IIRC).<--Chime in if I'm not remembering correctly but I seem to remember Kyle DeFoor saying this in a class; could be wrong. The POA should be split by the sights; cut the circle in half.

[TiroFijo]

All normal pistols are very flat shooting up to at least 30 yds... the POI difference is shooter error.

The 45 ACP, 230 gr FMJ @ 830 fps has a rainbow trayectory compared to a 9 mm load, yet its trayectory when zeroed at 25 yds (compared to the line of sight) is about:

range bullet path
(yds) (inches)
0 -0.6
5 -0.2
10 0.0
15 0.2
20 0.1
25 0.0
30 -0.3
35 -0.7

[NMBigfoot02]

Thanks for the input. I'll try again at the range this week and see if I can get better results.

ETA: I plan on doing the 3x5 card drill and some Wall drills before going this weekend. Are there any other drills that will help be diagnose/work on trigger jerk?

[AMC29]

ETA: I plan on doing the 3x5 card drill and some Wall drills before going this weekend. Are there any other drills that will help be diagnose/work on trigger jerk?

With an UNLOADED WEAPON, try placing a coin on top of your pistol. It's a bit old school, but flinching will be immediately apparent as you dip the pistol downward and the coin falls off. You may be jerking the trigger causing your wrist to break ever so slightly down. Concentrate on pressing the trigger straight back without dropping the coin. ***THIS IS A DRY FIRE DRILL***


for a LIVE FIRE drill, buy some dummy rounds and randomly place one (or more) in your magazine. If you're flinching or anticipating recoil, you will see it immediately when you pull the trigger on a dummy round and dip the front of the pistol downward.

It's amazing to watch shooters with the dummy round drill anticipate recoil and flinch badly when there is none. It's also good for practicing "tap, rack, and ready" drills as well.

[300WM]

This may sound a little strange, but I use an air soft pistol (not loaded) for dry firing, mostly because I don't dry fire my pistols. I don't care what anyone says about dry firing, I don't do it (to my real guns). I will dry fire the piss out of a double action air soft pistol at images on the tv, keeping a view of the image while it is in the sights, and making sure the image does not move as I squeeze the trigger all the way through. This is guaranteed to help you, but doing it, or what ever else you choose to do three or four times will not help you. It takes time and dedication to to get your shots to POA, consistantly.
There is no significant bullet drop at 25 yds, and if you sight in at 25, it will be in at 15. Hope this helps.

[NMBigfoot02]

I guess I should have posted this earlier, but I did try the drills listed in my previous post, and I'm happy to say the flinch is now gone.

I found out what caused it to appear: I had switched my grip to a high thumbs grip with my right thumb riding the safety on my BHP. The only problem with this is that it causes the safety notch on the slide to catch the skin on the top of my thumb, pinching it, and generally turning my thumb into a bloody mess. I doesn't hurt that much, but the repeated pinching was enough for me to develop a flinch. After modifying my grip slightly, the problem has gone away.

Thanks to those who posted help and suggestions.