View Full Version : How did I do? First time staking an endplate and it was an ASAP
Eurodriver
09-19-10, 17:41
editted
The second one is more correct. The first is horrible. Only one needs to be done.
Next time, try punching closer in to the center of the endplate. You just want a round protrusion into the nut- not to try and fill it with metal.
Eurodriver
09-19-10, 17:52
I know the first one is really bad. What happened was the first one I started off center, so the piece of metal that was supposed to bulge into the slot broke off and I had to do it again.
Taking that experience into account is how I came to do the second one "properly."
Will it hold though?
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7311/68669817.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/stuff/BeavisAndButthead.jpg?t=1284939358
:p
Polymerhead
09-19-10, 18:55
What did you use? A center punch and a small hammer work great and give very clean results.
Eurodriver
09-19-10, 19:12
I used a starrett auto punch. There is NO way it would have come out cleaner with a hammer and punch. This doesn't slide around or move at all. Its great. The error was with the operator.
bkb0000
Cut a guy some slack :)
My advice is take a hammer and punch and do it again. Make one nice pushed metal instead of what you have now.
I cannot say that I have never seen worse workmanship on a product made in China...
Eurodriver
09-19-10, 22:21
I really didnt think it was that bad.... :bad: I guess I was mistaken...
Considering most of us should be all about how it functions over how it looks, I thought the responses would be better :(
I really didnt think it was that bad.... :bad: I guess I was mistaken...
Considering most of us should be all about how it functions over how it looks, I thought the responses would be better :(
relax, man.. we're all just flicking you shit. it's staked, thats all that matters. i think if we were seriously hating on you, the posts would be longer than one-liners.
The second one is fine- nice dimple. Just the extra marring at the left side of the staking that looks bad...
I used a starrett auto punch. There is NO way it would have come out cleaner with a hammer and punch. This doesn't slide around or move at all. Its great. The error was with the operator.
Next time, use the auto punch to create a small dimple and then use your center punch and hammer. The starter dimple you make holds the tip of the center punch so it does not move all over.
We're just harassing you. Who cares what it looks like. All that matters is hitting the target before the target hits you.
You may want to take a small file and smooth it out if it could cut you.
arizonaranchman
09-20-10, 01:35
Beautiful job!!!
I used a sharp punch and brass hammer. It works everytime. I'll post a pick later.
A for effort. If you're not confident with your work, let me know - just for posting this thread, I'll send you as many ASAP plates as you need to get things right. Just shoot me a shipping address: nick at magpul dot com.
Data base error - double tap.
See below....
Awesome gesture by NickB! Can't beat that!
I just use a hammer and punch. I never understood the need for an auto punch.
I have a pin punch that I took 10 seconds on the bench grinder, that I just rounded the corners on. Stabilize the lower, and a few whacks, and done! This is an ASAP as well....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/jimbo45/100_2615.jpg
A for effort. If you're not confident with your work, let me know - just for posting this thread, I'll send you as many ASAP plates as you need to get things right. Just shoot me a shipping address: nick at magpul dot com.
A1 Class act...! Good Job!
Scott
I have a question. I understand the importance of staking it in but how do you remove it if you want to swap anything out?
Do you use a square punch and try to hammer it back in?
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/stuff/BeavisAndButthead.jpg?t=1284939358
:p
:haha:
Awesome gesture by NickB! Can't beat that!
I just use a hammer and punch. I never understood the need for an auto punch.
I have a pin punch that I took 10 seconds on the bench grinder, that I just rounded the corners on. Stabilize the lower, and a few whacks, and done! This is an ASAP as well....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/jimbo45/100_2615.jpg
Very nicely done. :D Wanna do mine :-)
Awesome gesture by NickB! Can't beat that!
I just use a hammer and punch. I never understood the need for an auto punch.
I have a pin punch that I took 10 seconds on the bench grinder, that I just rounded the corners on. Stabilize the lower, and a few whacks, and done! This is an ASAP as well....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/jimbo45/100_2615.jpg
Very nice. Wanna do mine too :D
D. Christopher
09-20-10, 19:03
Eurodriver,
You did just fine for a first attempt. The ASAP is a hard piece of gear and I've had to help several people clean up their first attempts at staking one. You also were smart enough and brave enough to post a picture here and ask questions so now you really know how to do the next one. You've got your priorities straight because you didn't break anything and weren't too concerned with looks, just functionality. It's a good stake, just a little ugly. The best part is you've made a friend at MagPul and now you know firsthand how they stand behind their products, even when it's an operator error! You can't beat that.
And just remember that some of the folks that are busting your chops about how it looks are the same people who would've crucified you if you had asked about "fit & finish" on a weapon. :D Good luck and stay safe.
A for effort. If you're not confident with your work, let me know - just for posting this thread, I'll send you as many ASAP plates as you need to get things right. Just shoot me a shipping address: nick at magpul dot com.
That's a very nice gesture. It's nice to see that some folks still have some class. :)
Eurodriver
09-21-10, 00:17
Wow! Many thanks and props go out to Nick and MagPul. I cant believe a manufacturer will offer to replace a product of theirs solely because the operator didn't know the right spot to hold the punch!
I will get the new ASAP pics up ASAP :)
Thanks again Nick.
D. Christopher,
Thanks. You're right, I really had no idea what I was doing. I got an auto punch because I didnt feel comfortable (and didn't have anything to secure my lower with) holding a hammer and a punch while steadying the lower between my legs, banging away. The auto punch worked great, it was my placement that messed everything up. I'm confident next time my staking will look at least partially as good as Jimbos!
I've heard MagPul's customer service is great (I remember someone posting a PMAG with cracked feed lips on here and they offered to replace it) but this goes above and beyond what I'd expect any manufacturer to do. As Tarkeg said, thats class.
damn.. i guess it pays to **** shit up around here.
Awesome gesture by NickB! Can't beat that!
I just use a hammer and punch. I never understood the need for an auto punch.
I have a pin punch that I took 10 seconds on the bench grinder, that I just rounded the corners on. Stabilize the lower, and a few whacks, and done! This is an ASAP as well....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/jimbo45/100_2615.jpg
Very nice :-) Wanna do mine next :D :D
AR15barrels
09-21-10, 15:40
I used a starrett auto punch. There is NO way it would have come out cleaner with a hammer and punch.
The error was with the operator.
The second statement is much more correct here than the first statement.
I always use a regular punch and a hammer, but I use the right SIZE punch and the right SIZE hammer.
The most important thing is supporting it right and then doing it in one good hit.
I need to stake my ASAP. This link has some good info it. Thanks.
Slinger646
09-21-10, 17:56
A for effort. If you're not confident with your work, let me know - just for posting this thread, I'll send you as many ASAP plates as you need to get things right. Just shoot me a shipping address: nick at magpul dot com.
This post is full of awesome.
Nice, now I will finally do mine!
How does it look function wise?
Mine looks worse, I used a center punch but made the mistake of not punching it in the middle. Piece broke off but there's just enough to keep the castle nut from coming loose. I need to reorder another one but about 2500rds still good.
Dos Cylindros
09-21-10, 22:26
While it does not look good, it will serve it's purpose and keep the castle nut from backing off which is the point in the first place. Take up Nick B. on his offer and the next time you do it, it will come out better. What you have should do the job though.
AR15barrels
09-22-10, 11:20
I'm not seeing any posts in this thread after the 20th post, yet I keep seeing this thread climb up on my subscriptions list as if it has new posts.
Is there a disturbance in the matrix?
hmmm, after posting this post, I see 37 posts.
I used a sharp punch and brass hammer. It works everytime. I'll post a pick later.
You talking about what is usually labeled as a "prick punch?" That's what I got for staking, thinking the point would ensure that the first whack of the hammer (of usually no more than 3) put the thing exactly where I need it to go, versus something more blunt.
AR15barrels
09-22-10, 12:25
You talking about what is usually labeled as a "prick punch?"
That's what I use.
Isn't that what happens to guys in Porsches that drive like idiots? :D
Jim,
Roger that. I find that the prick punch works very well as long as you do your part. The key is getting the punch in the right place and that first whack. I find that 3 is usually more than sufficient.
You talking about what is usually labeled as a "prick punch?" That's what I got for staking, thinking the point would ensure that the first whack of the hammer (of usually no more than 3) put the thing exactly where I need it to go, versus something more blunt.
Eurodriver
09-24-10, 01:23
I'm not seeing any posts in this thread after the 20th post, yet I keep seeing this thread climb up on my subscriptions list as if it has new posts.
Is there a disturbance in the matrix?
hmmm, after posting this post, I see 37 posts.
I was having the same problem, and then just now i see 10 more posts. hmm
This is the ASAP I put on my wifes carbine. Though I was probably able to stake it a second time, I didn't think it was necessary. I tightened it more than adequately and got a good staking up top.
6133
Eurodriver
09-24-10, 02:28
This is the ASAP I put on my wifes carbine. Though I was probably able to stake it a second time, I didn't think it was necessary. I tightened it more than adequately and got a good staking up top.
6133
Got it. When I tried to stake this I thought I needed to move wayyy too much metal.
I will do it a little bit more than what you have there, but not much. I see now that all you need to do is get the castle nut from being able to back out. Not permanently secure it to the endplate. :nono:
I've used a DIY Staking tool up to this point....A modified flat-tip screwdriver blade, ground down to a wider tip. It has worked great on carrier keys and on castle nuts.
I've used Snap-On pen sized automatic center punches for years while performing sheet-metal repairs on aircraft. That size/type of ACP definitely does not have enough power to dimple anything more than sheet aluminum or rivet heads.
After reading how some have had success staking with the larger adjustable ACP's, I went out and purchased one. I wasn't too impressed with the performance of the larger ACP. It barely scratched the surface of the receiver end plate I was attempting to stake, and struck no deeper than the current ACP's I have from Snap-On.
I may pick up a "prick-punch" as suggested here, and try it out next opportunity I have.
I have a question. I understand the importance of staking it in but how do you remove it if you want to swap anything out?
Do you use a square punch and try to hammer it back in?
No, you don't use a punch to hammer it back. With a standard plate, you can pretty easily just force the castle nut off, if using a quality wrench. With an ASAP, it is possible, but pretty tough to shear past the staking, depending how deep it was done. In fact, look at my pic of my ASAP, at the bottom of page 1, and quoted a few times on page 2.... look at the passenger side of the plate; there is a spot on the edge where I had it previously staked on another lower, with a different castle nut. I moved this ASAP from a duty gun to a new duty gun. After you remove the nut, and it shears most of the staking off, just hit it lightly with a flat file, and install with a new or different castle nut, to be able to stake in a new location.
Again, it all comes down to using a good wrench, and having the lower and tube properly supported, for both staking, and removing a staked nut.
I have heard of folks using a tiny cutting wheel on a dremel, and knocking the stake down a bit before removing it. But, you will probably need to replace the castle nut too, when doing this.
My first attempt:
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/rushca01/DSC00370.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/rushca01/DSC00372.jpg
damn.. i guess it pays to **** shit up around here.
It pays to post threads that are helpful to others - that's what makes this forum worth reading. ;)
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, you may want to check your backplate. It looks like it is on backwards. The nub on the plate should be facing the hole at the rear of the receiver.
My first attempt:
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/rushca01/DSC00370.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/rushca01/DSC00372.jpg
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, you may want to check your backplate. It looks like it is on backwards. The nub on the plate should be facing the hole at the rear of the receiver.
Appears to be a QD Sling Swivel End Plate.
Appears to be a QD Sling Swivel End Plate.
It is a Noveske QD plate like Quib stated.
barrelwrench
09-26-10, 22:40
I use an old 1911 front sight staking tool to do the job.
Sorry. From the angle it didn't look right.
It is a Noveske QD plate like Quib stated.
Two points FYI:
1) I use a Starrett Model 18-C ACP. It is rated "heavy duty" and it is. It is also not cheap but I need it for other layout marking and it does do a very good job of staking the end plate.
2) Rather than filing any burrs raised when staking the end plate, I just hit the stake dimple with a 1/8" pin punch and it flattens any raised burrs without making any marks.
Eurodriver
09-27-10, 23:09
I received my ASAP today. But for the life of me I can't get the castle nut off. I guess my "I want to make sure that this castle nut doesn't back out" was entirely correct. I've tried peeling back the metal in the stakings, but short of breaking something the nut is not coming off. Gonna have my armorer buddy help me tomorrow.
P.S.
I also saw this on my invoice. Can't wait :D
Did you apply anti-seize? It shouldn't be a problem with the correct tools. You simply need to apply more force and it should come loose. I would even get someone to hold the buttstock assy while you apply steady pressure. Unless you did something crazy it should pop loose.
I received my ASAP today. But for the life of me I can't get the castle nut off. I guess my "I want to make sure that this castle nut doesn't back out" was entirely correct. I've tried peeling back the metal in the stakings, but short of breaking something the nut is not coming off. Gonna have my armorer buddy help me tomorrow.
P.S.
I also saw this on my invoice. Can't wait :D
Eurodriver
09-28-10, 00:44
No, I did not apply anti seize.
This is not turning out so well, I may need to dremel the castle nut and end plate off.... and re do it the right way this time. It appears there is metal wedged between the castle nut and the threads. I'm just worried about damaging the receiver or the threads of the tube. I did get the castle nut to move about 1/4" (I had marked it to see if I was making progress) but after that it won't budge. Magpul was great supplying a new ASAP. Assuming I don't gum anything up removing this a new castle nut and a proper staking will make everything brand new
As far as applying more force, I was standing on the buttstock and the magwell (with proper padding underneath) and pulling up on the wrench . Surprisingly the wrench and castle nut aren't stripped but I'm telling you, this castle nut is not moving.
Tomorrow I will be able to put it in a vice and try to get some more metal out with dental tools.
It needs to be locked into a vise. And if I am not mistaken you shouldn't be pulling on the wrench. When I lock an AR into the vise with the front of the weapon facing to the left side, going up will tighten the nut and pushing the wrench down will loosen the nut. Make sure that you are going the right way.
No, I did not apply anti seize.
This is not turning out so well, I may need to dremel the castle nut and end plate off.... and re do it the right way this time. It appears there is metal wedged between the castle nut and the threads. I'm just worried about damaging the receiver or the threads of the tube. I did get the castle nut to move about 1/4" (I had marked it to see if I was making progress) but after that it won't budge. Magpul was great supplying a new ASAP. Assuming I don't gum anything up removing this a new castle nut and a proper staking will make everything brand new
As far as applying more force, I was standing on the buttstock and the magwell (with proper padding underneath) and pulling up on the wrench . Surprisingly the wrench and castle nut aren't stripped but I'm telling you, this castle nut is not moving.
Tomorrow I will be able to put it in a vice and try to get some more metal out with dental tools.
Eurodriver
09-28-10, 01:05
It needs to be locked into a vise. And if I am not mistaken you shouldn't be pulling on the wrench. When I lock an AR into the vise with the front of the weapon facing to the left side, going up will tighten the nut and pushing the wrench down will loosen the nut. Make sure that you are going the right way.
If the safety selector is facing towards me, and the wrench is up, I pull towards me to go counter-clockwise.
I'll put it in a vise tomorrow and see how it goes. Hopefully it will come right out.
Humor me. I don't know what wrench you are using. Once you have it locked in (with the front of the receiver facing towards your left) Put the wrench on the top of the nut so that you are exerting your force downwards. That should work unless you cranked that thing down so tight that the threads have seized.
I would also get some Loc-tite C5A anti-seize and put on the threads before you reassemble it again.
If the safety selector is facing towards me, and the wrench is up, I pull towards me to go counter-clockwise.
I'll put it in a vise tomorrow and see how it goes. Hopefully it will come right out.
With out being assembled the first time with grease or anti-seize, I wonder if there isn't some galling going on between the receiver extension and the castle nut, preventing the castle nut from being completely backed off.
Eurodriver
09-28-10, 23:53
Wow, that was interesting. I got the lower in a vice, and the nut broke free with almost zero effort. Interesting. :p Having the right tools makes everything easier.
However, the nut wuld not just spin off. It appeared to be "warped", i.e. instead of a circle it was an oval. I dont know how that happened. I will get pics up soon. I did have a spare castle nut but it doesnt have the peening for the stakes. I will have to wait until November when I get back from warjsmzyjalemanglenbeck-istan. I will post pics of the staked castle nut then, for now Ill just post pics of the new ASAP and everything put together.
Eurodriver
09-29-10, 00:12
This is where I'm at now.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8264/imgp0066r.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1567/imgp0067d.jpg
If I had a proper castle nut I'd be done by now. I promised Magpul pics in return for the ASAP...and I want to deliver the same way the mailman did for me.
Eurodriver
09-29-10, 00:14
This is the complete carbine
http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/4624/p9040055.jpg
BCM 14.5 Midlength with an ST Stripped lower
I hate to tell you this, but you may want to trash that nut. If it doesn't have the staking slots, then it is most likely some type of airsoft crap or el cheapopieceofshit nut.
I can tell you why the other nut warped. It was probably not good quality and you guys put too much torque on it. I ALSO HIGHLY RECOMMEND USING SOME ANTI-SEIZE.
This is where I'm at now.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8264/imgp0066r.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1567/imgp0067d.jpg
If I had a proper castle nut I'd be done by now. I promised Magpul pics in return for the ASAP...
Eurodriver
09-29-10, 00:25
Iraqgunz,
I appreciate the concern. The issue is I leave Thursday night. I dont want my gun lieing in pieces because I dont want to come back and find something lost, or go to put everything together, forget a piece and have to find it again later. This way I know where everything is.
This is a temporary castle nut, just to keep everything together until I get back, its not even torqued, just a tad bit more than hand tight.
I cant order a proper castle nut yet because I wont be here to receive it. I'm not even going to shoot the gun with this castle nut on, as for it being airsoft I ordered it from Brownells. Airsoft? Eh, possibly, but the first one (the one that was warped) came on a buttstock assembly I ordered from Bravo Company USA. I highly doubt it was Chinese.
I honestly didn't know about anti-seize on the castle nut until this thread. When I return I'll put some on when I do the final permanent install.
I would contact Brownells then and see about returning it because it isn't correct and you won't be able to stake it correctly.
Iraqgunz,
I appreciate the concern. The issue is I leave Thursday night. I dont want my gun lieing in pieces because I dont want to come back and find something lost, or go to put everything together, forget a piece and have to find it again later. This way I know where everything is.
This is a temporary castle nut, just to keep everything together until I get back, its not even torqued, just a tad bit more than hand tight.
I cant order a proper castle nut yet because I wont be here to receive it. I'm not even going to shoot the gun with this castle nut on, as for it being airsoft I ordered it from Brownells. Airsoft? Eh, possibly, but the first one (the one that was warped) came on a buttstock assembly I ordered from Bravo Company USA. I highly doubt it was Chinese.
I honestly didn't know about anti-seize on the castle nut until this thread. When I return I'll put some on when I do the final permanent install.
I can tell you why the other nut warped. It was probably not good quality and you guys put too much torque on it.
Or there was too much force exerted on the nut during staking. If this is true, I'd also inspect the receiver extension in the area just under the nut, it might be out of round as well.
Iraqgunz,
I honestly didn't know about anti-seize on the castle nut until this thread. When I return I'll put some on when I do the final permanent install.
That's why it's always a good idea to read through the -23&P. Even for the most simple of tasks.....you never know what steps in the task you might be omitting by not reading the manual. (The TM calls out grease, but anti-seize would work just the same. Your ultimate goal is to prevent galling between the threads of the dissimilar metals of the castle nut and receiver extension.)
You can download a copy here. Scroll down to the end of Mark's tutorial:
http://https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35490 (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35490)
I mentioned anti-seize about two days ago. When I was in A'stan I used bearing grease and it worked just fine.
I encourage you to download the TM as Quib mentioned and read it when you have a chance. Lots of info there.
Six Feet Under
09-29-10, 11:15
Looks good to me...
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