orionz06
09-20-10, 21:13
I know there are many reviews out there that rate much higher than what I am gonna say, but the quality of the class deserves as much mention as it can get.
My previous experience:
To start off, my previous training experience was rather limited, I had participated in two study sessions (winter (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=42647) and spring (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44288)) presented by M4C members local to me and got what I feel to be very good FREE training. I met a few people that shoot at the club I joined a month before the first study session and was able to learn a lot and apply the practice techniques and ideas presented in the study groups. I was presented with the opportunity to participate in this course so I obviously jumped on it. As a point of comparison, Ken's class was the logical next step in my journey. This class was my first formal two day training class.
Class details:
The class was hosted by Low Speed High Drag, LLC (http://www.lowspeed-highdrag.com/), a local company ran by the facilitator of the study sessions mentioned above. The total cost was $450 for two days and a night session, totaling by my numbers around 17 hours or so. This was split into classroom and live fire/demo. There was minimal class time as Ken introduced us to what he intended to teach us and provide us to use down the road. He also discussed what the "real world" was and told us how he came to this conclusion and the statistics that support it. See "Ken's Rules" below. I shot approximately 570 rounds over the two days which was less than expected, which certainly felt like enough to get the message across.
The class was presented as an advanced class that was not to teach the fundamentals, but use the fundamental skills that were learned before and apply them to drills and ways to determine where we are and how to figure out what we may need to work on. When we hit the range, we had a very short discussion on the draw, grip, stance, and why he does what he does. He later confirmed that everyone was pretty solid in their draw and grip. The live fire started out with a few drills that were basic but enough to show where all of the shooters were at skill wise. We then did a few drills to try to fix a few of the issues some of the shooters had. No one had any major issues, but there were the usual trigger snatches here and there. Ken made it a point to let us know what we were doing (if we didn't hide the bad shots first). After a few drills, he would call us into a group and tell us why we did what we did and how he felt it related to the real world he discussed earlier. We then broke into some timed skill drills that covered various aspects of what he felt combat shooting was. Along the way he would mention that some of the drills were what he used when he went to the range. The ongoing theme to the practice session he was designing for us was "how to shoot the 100 rounds" we just bought.
The idea on the range session he was building for us was interesting to me as I am still very new to this. It is very easy to get immersed into one particular drill and want to work on it over and over again so I can tell the internet that if I ever have to do a ____ drill in a dark alley I will be awesome at it. The idea that Ken was showing us was that we didn’t need to practice being good at a drill, we needed to be good across the board and he gave us benchmarks to work for. Nobody knows what you will need to do when the gun comes out so you need to focus on everything. Most of the shooters met the benchmarks, some didn’t, but as the day went on the times and hits improved.
We broke for dinner and hung out with Ken and talked guns, shooting, and the usual gun guy stuff. I was pretty impressed with how down to earth he was and his insight into the whole gun culture we are in.
After dinner we started the night fire session. Flashlight techniques, choices, and other night time considerations were discussed. Remembering his rules, this was an important session. We started very slowly to show how bad our groups got when it gets dark out. The major point was that towards dinner, all of us were shooting pretty well and our hits were good. Turn the lights out and we instantly saw why we needed to be accurate and why he was making it a point to let us know when we were snatching the trigger or just not shooting tight enough groups.
The night fire session was a big confirmation for two things, I love my X300 and I hate using a handheld light. I carry 80% of the time with a WML, but I always have a handheld. I have practiced light techniques in the past, but now I know I need to employ it more. We concluded the night session by testing our carry ammo to see how it impacts our vision at night. A few people seemed like they were going to change their carry ammo based on this session.
Positives and Negatives:
I will start by saying I cannot find any negatives in the training received. I felt the preparation I had for the class was excellent and a great lead in to the material in this class. The stuff presented is still sinking in and I suspect even a year from now I will still be noticing little things that were taught “click”. The biggest single most point I took from the class is the validation of what I am doing, have been taught, and where I want to be. Everyone wants to be great at this, and Ken surely hammered home to us where we needed to be.
Did you get your money’s worth, and do you recommend others spending their time and money with this course and trainer?(stolen question)
Most certainly, if my endless hours on the internet have shown me anything, it is when Ken Hackathorn talks, you listen. That being said, the class was well worth the time and money. I have already looked into taking another one of his classes as soon as the timing and schedule permit.
Other comments:
One of the things that made this class a no brainer for me was the distance to the range. The class was 16 miles from my door, eliminating travel and a hotel makes this much cheaper. It should be noted that the range selection seemed to be near perfect for those who did stay at a hotel. A standing offer to meet up before the class so no one got lost was also made. Excellent effort on the behalf of Jay for making sure this went off well.
Ken's rules, as seen everywhere:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/orionz06/hack003.jpg
My previous experience:
To start off, my previous training experience was rather limited, I had participated in two study sessions (winter (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=42647) and spring (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44288)) presented by M4C members local to me and got what I feel to be very good FREE training. I met a few people that shoot at the club I joined a month before the first study session and was able to learn a lot and apply the practice techniques and ideas presented in the study groups. I was presented with the opportunity to participate in this course so I obviously jumped on it. As a point of comparison, Ken's class was the logical next step in my journey. This class was my first formal two day training class.
Class details:
The class was hosted by Low Speed High Drag, LLC (http://www.lowspeed-highdrag.com/), a local company ran by the facilitator of the study sessions mentioned above. The total cost was $450 for two days and a night session, totaling by my numbers around 17 hours or so. This was split into classroom and live fire/demo. There was minimal class time as Ken introduced us to what he intended to teach us and provide us to use down the road. He also discussed what the "real world" was and told us how he came to this conclusion and the statistics that support it. See "Ken's Rules" below. I shot approximately 570 rounds over the two days which was less than expected, which certainly felt like enough to get the message across.
The class was presented as an advanced class that was not to teach the fundamentals, but use the fundamental skills that were learned before and apply them to drills and ways to determine where we are and how to figure out what we may need to work on. When we hit the range, we had a very short discussion on the draw, grip, stance, and why he does what he does. He later confirmed that everyone was pretty solid in their draw and grip. The live fire started out with a few drills that were basic but enough to show where all of the shooters were at skill wise. We then did a few drills to try to fix a few of the issues some of the shooters had. No one had any major issues, but there were the usual trigger snatches here and there. Ken made it a point to let us know what we were doing (if we didn't hide the bad shots first). After a few drills, he would call us into a group and tell us why we did what we did and how he felt it related to the real world he discussed earlier. We then broke into some timed skill drills that covered various aspects of what he felt combat shooting was. Along the way he would mention that some of the drills were what he used when he went to the range. The ongoing theme to the practice session he was designing for us was "how to shoot the 100 rounds" we just bought.
The idea on the range session he was building for us was interesting to me as I am still very new to this. It is very easy to get immersed into one particular drill and want to work on it over and over again so I can tell the internet that if I ever have to do a ____ drill in a dark alley I will be awesome at it. The idea that Ken was showing us was that we didn’t need to practice being good at a drill, we needed to be good across the board and he gave us benchmarks to work for. Nobody knows what you will need to do when the gun comes out so you need to focus on everything. Most of the shooters met the benchmarks, some didn’t, but as the day went on the times and hits improved.
We broke for dinner and hung out with Ken and talked guns, shooting, and the usual gun guy stuff. I was pretty impressed with how down to earth he was and his insight into the whole gun culture we are in.
After dinner we started the night fire session. Flashlight techniques, choices, and other night time considerations were discussed. Remembering his rules, this was an important session. We started very slowly to show how bad our groups got when it gets dark out. The major point was that towards dinner, all of us were shooting pretty well and our hits were good. Turn the lights out and we instantly saw why we needed to be accurate and why he was making it a point to let us know when we were snatching the trigger or just not shooting tight enough groups.
The night fire session was a big confirmation for two things, I love my X300 and I hate using a handheld light. I carry 80% of the time with a WML, but I always have a handheld. I have practiced light techniques in the past, but now I know I need to employ it more. We concluded the night session by testing our carry ammo to see how it impacts our vision at night. A few people seemed like they were going to change their carry ammo based on this session.
Positives and Negatives:
I will start by saying I cannot find any negatives in the training received. I felt the preparation I had for the class was excellent and a great lead in to the material in this class. The stuff presented is still sinking in and I suspect even a year from now I will still be noticing little things that were taught “click”. The biggest single most point I took from the class is the validation of what I am doing, have been taught, and where I want to be. Everyone wants to be great at this, and Ken surely hammered home to us where we needed to be.
Did you get your money’s worth, and do you recommend others spending their time and money with this course and trainer?(stolen question)
Most certainly, if my endless hours on the internet have shown me anything, it is when Ken Hackathorn talks, you listen. That being said, the class was well worth the time and money. I have already looked into taking another one of his classes as soon as the timing and schedule permit.
Other comments:
One of the things that made this class a no brainer for me was the distance to the range. The class was 16 miles from my door, eliminating travel and a hotel makes this much cheaper. It should be noted that the range selection seemed to be near perfect for those who did stay at a hotel. A standing offer to meet up before the class so no one got lost was also made. Excellent effort on the behalf of Jay for making sure this went off well.
Ken's rules, as seen everywhere:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/orionz06/hack003.jpg