View Full Version : Gen. Petraeus on the war against Muslim terrorism
"This is the kind of fight we're in for the rest of our lives and probably our kids' lives." Gen. David Petraeus.
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Many / most people do not seem to understand that. They are not preparing themselves or their families for a long term fight.
"This is the kind of fight we're in for the rest of our lives and probably our kids' lives." Gen. David Petraeus.
__
Many / most people do not seem to understand that. They are not preparing themselves or their families for a long term fight.
Dude, most people can't think beyond the next episode of American Idol. And you want them to think in terms of a war that might last hundreds of years?
You can't fight an idea. It is the most insidious and dangerous thing in the universe.
We might not be fighting in Afghanistan in 10 years, but I can promise we will still be fighting radical Islamic that choose to warp the basic tenants of a faith.
VooDoo6Actual
09-22-10, 15:12
I would tend to agree w/ the General's statement.
I also think short sighted ideology is ....
Demographics will determine the outcome of this war, and that outcome is already determined.
Western European civilization has aborted, contracepted, and buggered itself out of existence. It just doesn't know it yet.
Demographics will determine the outcome of this war, and that outcome is already determined.
Western European civilization has aborted, contracepted, and buggered itself out of existence. It just doesn't know it yet.
The latter it has, but the concepts of individual freedom, liberty, and open economic systems have a remarkable ability to coerce new civilizations to rapidly come around to western (or at least classic American liberal) ideologies. Second generation Muslims are generally much better educated, and far more likely to repudiate deliberate misinterpretations of the Quran and Hadith.
There's a foothold on hope. One that can be easily squandered.
The latter it has, but the concepts of individual freedom, liberty, and open economic systems have a remarkable ability to coerce new civilizations to rapidly come around to western (or at least classic American liberal) ideologies. Second generation Muslims are generally much better educated, and far more likely to repudiate deliberate misinterpretations of the Quran and Hadith.
There's a foothold on hope. One that can be easily squandered.
The experience in England is showing the opposite, as second-generation muslim immigrants have been shown in numerous studies/polls to be more radical than their parents.
Birth rates will decide the outcome, not ideologies.
Moose-Knuckle
09-22-10, 20:57
We've been at war since the Moors invaded Spain in 711AD, about 516 years before the first Crusade in 1095AD after Jerusalem fell to Islam in 1076AD.
"This is the kind of fight we're in for the rest of our lives and probably our kids' lives." Gen. David Petraeus.
__
Many / most people do not seem to understand that. They are not preparing themselves or their families for a long term fight.
That is because we are fighting an ideology rather than a defined enemy. If we went to war against National Socialism or Asian Imperialism 70 years ago we'd still be fighting.
You simply have to hold countries and governments responsible for the Islamic terrorism they foster, support and shelter. You then go to war against those countries, defeat them (and this means the population understands they have been militarily defeated and are begging for peace) and replace the government with one that will NOT foster, support or shelter Islamic terrorism.
Bolt_Overide
09-23-10, 04:33
Most americans cannot be counted on to look more forward than their next paycheck, and neither do they care about anything that happens more than 50 miles from them, unless of course the biased liberal news media makes a point of telling them they should care.
CarlosDJackal
09-23-10, 11:58
People still don't get that mainstream muslims (who we consider extreme) have been fighting this "holy war" for centuries and that they will not stop until there are no longer any Infidels left. :rolleyes:
GermanSynergy
09-23-10, 12:01
Dude, most people can't think beyond the next episode of American Idol. And you want them to think in terms of a war that might last hundreds of years?
I have to agree with this statement. Your average Schmeck can't even locate Pakistan on a map, and one guy thought that Israel was in Europe:rolleyes: Couple that with people that think some celebrity hag rendering opinion on political issues (DADT) is somehow relevant, we're in trouble.
Moose-Knuckle
09-23-10, 16:07
A little known quote engraved in a USMC sqaud bay comes to mind. . .
The Marines are at War, America is at the mall.
We've been at war since the Moors invaded Spain in 711AD, about 516 years before the first Crusade in 1095AD after Jerusalem fell to Islam in 1076AD.
Exactly. If we're lucky, we've come to the middle of this war.
Exactly. If we're lucky, we've come to the middle of this war.
Well considering we haven't seen any drastic changes in their general mindset (religion, individual rights, adaption to the changing times), I would really hope in this digital age that more and more people will begin to question the radical imams and start to think for themselves.
RogerinTPA
09-24-10, 16:54
Most americans cannot be counted on to look more forward than their next paycheck, and neither do they care about anything that happens more than 50 miles from them, unless of course the biased liberal news media makes a point of telling them they should care.
Agreed. Most also have a very short memory as far as history is concerned.
I would really hope in this digital age that more and more people will begin to question the radical imams and start to think for themselves.
I have been highly skeptical of Imam Ubama right from the start.
We've been at war since the Moors invaded Spain in 711AD, about 516 years before the first Crusade in 1095AD after Jerusalem fell to Islam in 1076AD.
We've been at war even earlier than that. There used to be 3 Christian churches, Coptic, Greek Orthodox & Catholic. The Coptic Church fell first in the 7th C, then of course the Greek Orthodox next in the 16th C, they moved to Moscow.
Demographics will determine the outcome of this war, and that outcome is already determined.
Western European civilization has aborted, contracepted, and buggered itself out of existence. It just doesn't know it yet.
Demographics will be a determining factor but not the only one. Education, meaning an honest evaluation of history is a good start. A good beginning is the start of the Muslim Brotherhood in the early 1920s, directly after WWI. Directly after the fall of the Turk empire and the Calaphpate (sp and I don't care). It had nothing to do with US foreign policy.
EDIT TO ADD: Then came the huge influx of capital with the forming of OPEC in the early 1970s. Now the folks in the Muslim Brotherhood had lots of people with lots of money to commit to their cause.
montanadave
09-25-10, 09:16
There used to be 3 Christian churches, Coptic, Greek Orthodox & Catholic. The Coptic Church fell first in the 7th C, then of course the Greek Orthodox next in the 16th C, they moved to Moscow.
Not to quibble, but there was only one Christian church until the Great Schism of 1054 (resulting from jurisdictional and doctrinal conflicts, principally the supremacy of papal authority and the insertion of the Filioque into the Nicene creed by western church officials) which resulted in the separation of the western Roman Catholic Church from the Eastern Orthodox Church, both of which survive to this day.
The origin of the Coptic church predates the the Great Schism and resulted from differences of Christological theology (e.g. Arianism, Nestorianism, monophysitism, etc., all of which conflict with the officially sanctioned trinitarian view of the Church) dealing with the nature of Christ. These differences came to a head at the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when a diverse group of early Christians, including the Copts, refused to adopt the ecumenical decisions of the Council and split, creating multiple schismatic sects collectively referred to as the Eastern Oriental Church. Elements of this church survive in northeastern Africa, principally Ethiopia and Egypt, as well as Armenia and India.
That is because we are fighting an ideology rather than a defined enemy. If we went to war against National Socialism or Asian Imperialism 70 years ago we'd still be fighting.
You simply have to hold countries and governments responsible for the Islamic terrorism they foster, support and shelter. You then go to war against those countries, defeat them (and this means the population understands they have been militarily defeated and are begging for peace) and replace the government with one that will NOT foster, support or shelter Islamic terrorism.
The general population doesn't care enough because
Dude, most people can't think beyond the next episode of American Idol. And you want them to think in terms of a war that might last hundreds of years?
Even if or when it reaches our doorstep again, I have little faith....
Nathan_Bell
09-25-10, 12:24
Dude, most people can't think beyond the next episode of American Idol. And you want them to think in terms of a war that might last hundreds of years?
It has already lasted 1,000+ years. Until Islam wins, has a reformation, or is destroyed; they will continue to be at war with the rest of the world.
Vienna and Lepanto weren't all that long ago
Not to quibble, but there was only one Christian church until the Great Schism of 1054 (resulting from jurisdictional and doctrinal conflicts, principally the supremacy of papal authority and the insertion of the Filioque into the Nicene creed by western church officials) which resulted in the separation of the western Roman Catholic Church from the Eastern Orthodox Church, both of which survive to this day.
The origin of the Coptic church predates the the Great Schism and resulted from differences of Christological theology (e.g. Arianism, Nestorianism, monophysitism, etc., all of which conflict with the officially sanctioned trinitarian view of the Church) dealing with the nature of Christ. These differences came to a head at the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when a diverse group of early Christians, including the Copts, refused to adopt the ecumenical decisions of the Council and split, creating multiple schismatic sects collectively referred to as the Eastern Oriental Church. Elements of this church survive in northeastern Africa, principally Ethiopia and Egypt, as well as Armenia and India.
Quibble away!
The point I think nearly everyone in this thread is trying to make (and providing historical evidence as well) is that Islam has always been at war with any one who is not muslim. They have taken brief time outs as they did post WWI to the mid 1970s, usually due to lack of capital.
They will only stop when they have no resources to funnel into holy war.
montanadave
09-25-10, 22:37
Quibble away!
The point I think nearly everyone in this thread is trying to make (and providing historical evidence as well) is that Islam has always been at war with any one who is not muslim. They have taken brief time outs as they did post WWI to the mid 1970s, usually due to lack of capital.
They will only stop when they have no resources to funnel into holy war.
Please do not misconstrue my earlier remarks. They were offered solely as a clarification and were not meant as an objection to the central theme of this thread (i.e. the militant nature of Islam). If they appeared overly pedantic, my apologies.
Please do not misconstrue my earlier remarks. They were offered solely as a clarification and were not meant as an objection to the central theme of this thread (i.e. the militant nature of Islam). If they appeared overly pedantic, my apologies.
I took no offense and I don't think it detracted from the thread.
The central question regarding Islam and individual Muslims (IMHO) is the ratio of militant fundamentalists, supporters of fundamentalists but would never engage in violence them self, the apathetic and those firmly against the militant fundamentalists. I'm sure we could come up with more ways to slice the demographic but those are the core. What is the ratio of militants & those who support them compared to the rest of the Muslims on the planet? The MSM does not address the question. In reality, the apathetic help the militants so I suspect we are in big trouble.
There clearly are those that would not fight only in the name of Islam, they respond to America as the rich boogie man that is keeping them poor and hence are manipulated by those militant fundamentalists.
Either way we and the rest of the world are in trouble.
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