rebranded Sigma by S&W

[Tomahawk_Ghost]

http://www.thegunsource.com/item/386028_Smith_Wesson_Hand_Guns_Pistols_SW_SD9_9MM_17RD_SELF_DEFENSE_PISTOL.aspx

Looks like Smith is re-branding the Sigmas.

If they could improve the trigger on this pistol it wouldn't be half bad. I've know people that had them and they run fine, but the trigger was awful. Has anyone seen one of these up close?

For $400 the pistol has tritium sights as well.

[rubberneck]

While it has certainly been rebranded it has also been redesigned. The triggers on these new guns are much better than the old Sigma's but not as good as the M&P. Given the guns design it shouldn't be all that difficult to get a reasonably smooth 5.5 pound trigger out of them.

If paying for it I'd still go for the M&P but if handed one I wouldn't feel like I was at a major disadvantage like I would with a Sigma.

[C-grunt]

If they improved the trigger Id say it isnt a half bad deal for someone on a budget. But for 400 bucks you are getting mighty close to Glock pricing. Hell I think J&G has police trade in Glock 22s for 350ish.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I can't understand why somebody would buy this over the M&P....?

[19852]

If one of these can be had for the high $300's maybe low $400's I see the advantage as being a decent low priced pistol, brand new with S&W's excellent CS. Not an enthusiasts pistol, more of a night stand pistol.

[SWATcop556]

They would have to improve more than just the shitty trigger for me. They were also horribly inaccurate and I saw many many failures both FTF and FTE.

Go with a used Glock or M&P and use the Sigma to prop a door open.

[Sry0fcr]

I can't understand why somebody would buy this over the M&P....?

Cost. I think it'll probably be a better option than some of the other NIB pistols (Taurus & Ruger, I'm looking at you) at that price point that in most shops is at least $80 less than a Glock 19.

[rubberneck]

I can't understand why somebody would buy this over the M&P....?

Most of the people who buy guns aren't gun savvy and wouldn't appreciate the difference between the two. They tend to be driven by price and S&W knows it. With their brand I am sure they are going to sell a ton of these guns to people who will shoot a magazine through them and then leave them loaded collecting dust on their night stand for the next five years.

[Tomahawk_Ghost]

Cost. I think it'll probably be a better option than some of the other NIB pistols (Taurus & Ruger, I'm looking at you) at that price point that in most shops is at least $80 less than a Glock 19.

$80 less with night sights. So it could be considered maybe $145 less. If they have improved the trigger and reliability maybe they'll have a winner.

BTW, I'm a Glock and H&K man. But I do wish an American Company like S&W the best of luck with this.

[rubberneck]

If this gun proves to be reliable and accurate someone will figure out a way to get it a really nice trigger. It probably won't be an Apex quality trigger but it will be good enough for daily carry and at that point you will have a lot of gun for your money. Like the M&P I think I'll let a good year go buy before I would consider buying one. By then all the big issues will be known and addressed.

[Moose-Knuckle]

I know a broker who is a retired 18 echo, he prides himself on winning competitions with a used pawn shop bought Sigma.

[IROCZ]

I had 3 new ones back in 93 or 94 when they first appeared, less than 50 rds and broken trigger return spring. Gunshop replaced it, happened again! The third replacement got traded in on a Glock 19 unfired. Hope they got better.:rolleyes:

[mlk18]

S&W is doing what Glock did back in the late 80's, responding to what consumers want and using marketing to their advantage. The M&P was designed to eat up Glock's market share for LEO sales and the SD series was designed to eat up the civilian self defense market. The SW9VE remains in the line up as competition for the best budget priced gun available.

I have owned two Sigmas, an SW9E and a SW9VE. Both were 100% reliable, both were very accurate (equal to my Glock 9mm's) and both had triggers that were easily manageable. Both triggers became very good after a trigger job. While the original Sigma was a POS, rumors of the new series being poor quality and inaccurate are VERY over exaggerated. I have an M&P, an SW9E, several 3rd Gens and will likely be buying an SD9. You can never have to many S&W's.

[dvdlpzus]

We have to remember that the stock M&P trigger for today's standards is considered 'bad.' I wouldn't be surprised if this handgun also had a bad trigger, however; if someone like Apex backs this handgun with something like the DCAEK kit I would buy it in a heartbeat. $397.99 for a handgun with night sights is pretty good. Has anyone here shot this handgun before? If so how is the trigger?
I wonder if Apex is interested in improving trigger or other internals for this handgun.

I hope S&W keeps making competition on Glock. Good for all of us!

[GKoenig]

A couple of months ago, I bought one of the first SD 40s at the counter in the local gun store. Reason: I was stuck in traffic by said store, and was sitting on a few K of .40 without anything to feed it to. The SD40 caught my eye (having seen the PR blurb the week prior).

On the store counter, I was impressed with a few things:

- The fit and finish is M&P quality. Unlike other budget guns, the polymer is dense and well molded. The slide is melonite finished stainless (like the M&P). The machining is top notch. The components are smooth and of high quality. The overall feel is that the SD series are very high build standard firearms that have been "de-featured" compared to the M&P. At $380 out the door, this is *worlds* away from anything else in the gun store counter display.

- The trigger is - for the intended market - absolutely perfect. It is *not* for the kind of people who would bother to sign up for something like the M4 Carbine forums. For the kind of people who want a reliable, quality self defense pistol to cary/keep in the car/nightstand, it is perfectly acceptable. People on gun forums are going to trash the trigger on this thing the way Porsche and BMW M drivers might bicker about the differences between an M3 and a 996 Carrera in turn 3 at Laguna Seca - pedantic and utterly irrelevant to the typical Camry driver.

- The size. The SD40 and SD9 compete well against what I feel is the ideal civilian pistol, the Glock 19. They are a tad longer in the grip, but the SD9 carries one extra round in the magazine.

- Background. This isn't some cut rate brand weapon, it is a modern S&W. Forget the abomination that is the Sigma; the modern S&W is a company working hard to carry the reigns of American gun craftsmanship (look at how well the M&P has done in a short time). This isn't an off-brand, bargain basement, Saturday night special POS. The modern S&W is a smartly run company and the SD series has been designed using everything S&W learned from the M&P.

- Price. Like I said, $380 out the door is a bargain. For the *intended market* this is a brand new, full warranty pistol for less than gun stores are selling Croation XDs or ratty police trade in Glocks. Ohh, and you get a front tritium site to boot!

Since I bought my SD40, I've put about 500 rounds downrange with it, working through that stockpile of .40 I have sitting around. Frankly, it works shockingly well for the price. Do I shoot my Glock 19 more? Absolutely! I have 6 of them and I carry one with me ever time I walk out my front door, so the bulk of my range time is handled by my primary weapon. Is it as lovely to shoot as my Les Baer TRS? **** no! Of course it doesn't shoot like a hand built, SA trigger piece of art that costs 5x as much. That doesn't mean I am any less impressed by what the little SD40 does, the price point S&W has achieved or the 100% reliability I have experienced has shown.

If I seem defensive about the SD series in this post, it is because I am. The fact is, everyone participating in this forum is, by definition, a gun enthusiast. The standards by which we hold our equipment are skewed a bit towards the academic bench racing side of the equation. As the "gun guy" amongst my group of friends, I've been asked countless times what pistol someone interested in defending themselves should buy. My answer is generally been "Guys buy Glock 19s, ladies buy Glock 26s" (driven by what is more easily concealed). A lot of the time, I hear that $500+ out the door is a lot of money for these folks to spend for something they want to shoot a few times a year and keep in the bedroom. For those folks, I have absolutely zero hesitation in recommending they buy an SD9.

I am pleased as punch that S&W has stepped up to offer a reliable, quality, well featured pistol at a price point well below everyone else. Anything that helps more responsible citizens take self defense into their own hands is a big ****ing win in my book. The SD series is a great step in that direction and needs to be judged as such.

[C4IGrant]

If one of these can be had for the high $300's maybe low $400's I see the advantage as being a decent low priced pistol, brand new with S&W's excellent CS. Not an enthusiasts pistol, more of a night stand pistol.

We sell them for $360 (FYI).


C4

[C4IGrant]

We have to remember that the stock M&P trigger for today's standards is considered 'bad.' I wouldn't be surprised if this handgun also had a bad trigger, however; if someone like Apex backs this handgun with something like the DCAEK kit I would buy it in a heartbeat. $397.99 for a handgun with night sights is pretty good. Has anyone here shot this handgun before? If so how is the trigger?
I wonder if Apex is interested in improving trigger or other internals for this handgun.

I hope S&W keeps making competition on Glock. Good for all of us!


APEX is working on a spring kit for them right now. I have also dones some polish work on the gun and got the trigger pull way down.

The problem with a $300 gun is that no one will want to put $100 + dollars worth of parts in it. So trigger jobs will need to be simple and drop in types.

If the PD is a reliable firearm, I think it will take a lot of market from XD.

We shall see.


C4

[GermanSynergy]

This looks like a very nice little pistol for the money & intended market. I won't buy one (love my M&P 9's), but for someone just starting out, they could do far worse.

Grant: How do you like em?

[C4IGrant]

This looks like a very nice little pistol for the money & intended market. I won't buy one (love my M&P 9's), but for someone just starting out, they could do far worse.

Grant: How do you like em?


I like the factory sights (which are the ones that come on the M&P). I like the thin grip and "feel" of the gun in my hand (1911 like).

I do not like the factory trigger (to heavy for sure) and I don't like that I cannot depress the slide release with my dominate hand thumb (like on the M&P). This won't matter to many though as they are more used to using the "sling shot" method of releasing the slide.



C4

[Beat Trash]

Gun enthusiasts who shoot and train a lot tend to forget there many out there who buy a gun for self defense who's definition of what they need in a defensive pistol are different.

Many non-gun enthusiasts buy a pistol to keep available in the house in case they feel threatened while at home. Most of these guns will be shot shortly after being purchased, then afterwards, maybe one or twice a year.

As far as holsters go, think sock drawer in the bedroom.

For these type of individuals, the new S&W SD guns are a great value in my opinion. This is the type of market S&W is attempting to go after with this new gun.

Think about it for a moment. Name recognition is important for a novice who won't spend much time researching on the internet. They may have a vague idea of what they want. The new gun comes with a night sight, and two magazines. While we think two magazines is standard, it's one more than most of these gun buyers think they will need. The quality of the gun considering the actual retail price of these guns makes me want to consider getting one, just because.

If I owned a gun store, I'd stock a shitload of these SD guns just for this type of customer. It'd be an easy sale in my opinion.

[rubberneck]

Many non-gun enthusiasts buy a pistol to keep available in the house in case they feel threatened while at home. Most of these guns will be shot shortly after being purchased, then afterwards, maybe one or twice a year.

A couple who are very close to my parents bought a used S&W 5906 back in the early 1990's. He was an ER Doctor who often worked overnight so he bought the gun so his wife could defend herself if the time came and he was on call. In 1993 he died of prostate cancer and then in 1998 or 1999 I got a call from his wife wanting to know how to unload the gun. The damn thing sat in his night stand for 5 or 6 years untouched. There are boat load of gun owners out there who want a cheaper gun but are smart enough to try and buy one from a big name gun manufacturer.

[JonnyVain]

If one of these can be had for the high $300's maybe low $400's I see the advantage as being a decent low priced pistol, brand new with S&W's excellent CS. Not an enthusiasts pistol, more of a night stand pistol.

That's what they're advertising it as. A HD pistol.

The thing I like more about the Glocks over S&W is the balance. The SD and M&P have a heavy slide and very light frame. The Glock feels more hefty in the frame, but not heavier overall.