View Full Version : Free float handguards vrs. Drop in two peace hand guards
What is the difference between these two hand guards? I'm wanting this free float hand guard but will it work on my gun I have a two pice moe hand guard what would I need to make a free floating hand guard work? Do I need anything?
ForTehNguyen
09-22-10, 16:08
You would have to buy a FF rail system to replace the MOE handguards.
FF handguards is only secured by the delta ring and upper receiver and not touching the barrel, hence free float. Drop in handguards are secured by both the delta ring and handguard caps at the front sight tower gas block, like any other plastic handguard. So in this case the handguard has an extra point of contact on the barrel, while freefloat has none. FF will feel a lot more solid as well. Drop in handguards may have some play.
Daniel Defense Omega rails are the easiest rails to install, you dont need a gunsmith like some of the other ones.
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=railsystems_omegarail
Thanks a lot man. Wear would be the best place to get that at? An I'm looking at getting the vltor ff hand guard what do u think about those this is my first ar I have owend so I no nothing about them.
Wait I'm so confused. Dose this mean I don't need anything to install a ff hand guard? Or do I need something special to make it work cause I want the vltor carbine length ff hand guard.
I've helped 2 guys get/install a DD Omega, and I think both got them from G&R Tactical. It's a simple install, and a sweet HG.
It really depends which one you get. Some require minor mods and some full on disassembly and replacement of the standard barrel nut with a proprietary one. The Omega drops right in with zero mods. The Vltor CASV-EL requires only one very minor mod. All you need to do it remove the sling swivel on your FSB which isnt hard at all. See link below... It's in stock. :)
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Vltor-CASV-EL-Carbine-Handguard-p/casv-el%20black.htm
Thanks for that, Col. Looks like a winner, except too bad about this: "This system will not work with Mid-Length or Rifle Length gas systems." Maybe they'll work on that...
Oh just for those who haven't removed the swivel yet, it's easy. I was a little upset when an upper I bought didn't have one, until I realized they are useless, IMHO. Just use a little oil and undersized drill bit, work it slow, then tap it out. I've done that on 3 uppers now. On one I wasn't really careful, so I had to touch it up with a Birchwood Casey pen.
So... I have to drill out the front sight? What size bit do I need and is that just cause the hand gaurd will not clear past that slim mount?Do u have like a diagram on how this is done?
ForTehNguyen
09-22-10, 19:55
you dont have to drill out the front sight
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Daniel-Defense-OMEGA-Rail-install-guide-and-pictorial-review
Is it just a pin that u push out?
Rmplstlskn
09-22-10, 20:07
Is it just a pin that u push out?
You have to do more than just "push" it out... It is often in there very tightly and is TAPERED, so you need to hit on the correct side (I forget which side that is right now... I think left to right)
That pin often takes a very good whack with a GOOD PUNCH and a decent hammer to loosen, then it just pushes out... You also need a very solid rest that supports the front sight base to get full impact onto the pin, otherwise you will just mushroom stuff and maybe slip, scratching stuff...
I suggest you find a local AR gunsmith to do it for you... Then you can add the rail yourself if you feel confident in doing so...
Rmpl
Eft to right looking at it from witch way?
So... I have to drill out the front sight? What size bit do I need and is that just cause the hand gaurd will not clear past that slim mount?Do u have like a diagram on how this is done?
Not that whole section of the FSB itself but just the end of the pin holding the swivel. You'll see that on one side, your front sight's swivel pin is "mushroomed" to keep it from backing out. Drill off the murshroomed end then tap out.
I have the CASV-M. Installation is quick/easy and solid. It's not a bad rail. However, if I had to do it again, I'd opt for a different rail for the following reasons:
-It's on the heavier side
-Gets hot quickly; especially if you're shooting a lot outside in the sun, you'll need some gloves.
-Because it's a piggy back rail, you have more limited options with BUIS (rear mbus won't fit) and optics with qd mounts. Luckily ADM makes a special mount for the T-1 with lower 1/3 co-witness.
YMMV
Really it's heavy? Cause the way mine is now it's really light. And u say a quick disconect won't fit like an eotech quick disconect 553 sight won't work? Cause that what I plan on buying and I just want the CASV-M because I think it looks good. And Thanks everyone else it a huge help
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
In terms of weight, it's one of the more heavy rails available, at least compared to the VTAC/TRX rail I have on my other setup. I realize the latter isn't a drop in option. After adding an AFG & light, the CASV setup feels sluggish compared to the VTAC/TRX with the same setup. I know I can go to the gym and get stronger, etc.
It's a standard rail and will accommodate the qd options available. I have an EO-512 on a Larue mount and it works fine, but since the rail is higher, I can't co-witness with my buis. I'm not sure how it would look with the 553's qd. The added height is just something to consider.
The CASV is a sharp looking rail, solid, and great option. Having owned one, I prefer a different setup.
Thanks I'll keep that in mind so the 553 will or won't work?
I'm sure the 553 will attach/detach on the rail. I don't know how it will look with your buis.
Wait, now Im confused... Exactly which one are you looking at purchasing? THe CASV-M or the CASV-EL?
Im not sure how the 553 compares in height to a Larue-mounted-552 but the 553 itself does sit high and could very well render your FSB and BUIS useless if mounted on a CASV. The 553 is also a bit heavy if that's a consideration.
If I may ask, how many rounds have you had through your carbine?
What a buis? And j want the el one I guess in fde. Cause I have the m&p15 moe that's fde. And that's why I want the 553 cause it's the only one eotech makes in fde.
And I have shoot easily over a thousand rounds thee it
What is the differense between the casv-el and the casv-m? Do they look the same?
BUIS = Back Up Iron Sight
Theyre essentially the same, the EL just has a cut out to accommodate the front sight base of a carbine system while the M does not.
The M is primarily built for midlength systems which have their FSBs further forward, hence, no need for the cut out. It can, hoewever, be used on a carbine system but you will need a low-pro gasblock in place of the standard FSB(or just shave it down). They also have an optional flip up front sight available for those who go this route.
As for the 553, I dont know how particular you are about color matching but a guy I shoot with has one and if I recall correctly, it didnt quite match his FDE furniture. It looked darker. I could be wrong though.
barrelwrench
09-23-10, 10:24
Ok. this is for my education...please don't flame me.
Other then weight, what benefits would a FF have on a carbine. I would think it would benefit a DMR or similar type rifle but not enough to make a difference with a 14.5 barrel carbine. Would a 2 piece have more support and less stress on the barrel nut, receiver and barrel for a weapon that's going to be banging against door jams and window sills, basically being beaten to death when chasing bad guys?
Semper Fi.
So would I be better off buying a different eotech and painting it fde if so what kind?
CarlosDJackal
09-23-10, 14:13
I've helped 2 guys get/install a DD Omega, and I think both got them from G&R Tactical. It's a simple install, and a sweet HG.
I have one myself and it's not that difficult to install. You end up with a FF handguard that is as easy to install as a non-FF handguard.
Ok. this is for my education...please don't flame me.
Other then weight, what benefits would a FF have on a carbine. I would think it would benefit a DMR or similar type rifle but not enough to make a difference with a 14.5 barrel carbine. Would a 2 piece have more support and less stress on the barrel nut, receiver and barrel for a weapon that's going to be banging against door jams and window sills, basically being beaten to death when chasing bad guys?
Semper Fi.
I dont think so since the barrel itself is also mounted on the receiver by the barrel nut. It doesnt really help share the load, if you will. Infact, with a FF you are actually relieving the barrel this stress, which in turn, would result in increased accuracy.
So would I be better off buying a different eotech and painting it fde if so what kind?
Ya, I suppose you could duracoat the shroud on any other eotech model to match your furniture. Sounds like a lot of work though for something that doesnt add any functional benefit to the carbine. If I had to go FDE, Id get FDE furniture and a rail that suits my needs functionally speaking an put FDE panels on it.
barrelwrench
09-23-10, 20:34
Thanks for the reply. I understand the benefits of FF a barrel, I do about 10 bedding jobs per year on bolt guns. I was just curious about the carbine, which you answered.
Thanks.
Stay safe.
Guns - out
Well the whole thing is fde that's why I want a scope to match
What is the difference between these two hand guards? I'm wanting this free float hand guard but will it work on my gun I have a two pice moe hand guard what would I need to make a free floating hand guard work? Do I need anything?
What are you looking to do/get out of the handguards. You might be able to save some money and time going a different route.
I have a DI (drop in) set of Troy handguards, a set of Daniele Defense Omega Hand Guards, a set of MOE and a set of Troy VTAC handguards. They all get the job done and their prices are from about $28-230.
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From what I've been told...the accuracy improvement of a FF HG on a chrome-lined barrel with a FSB will be negligible.
To get a true accuracy improvement, you need a SS barrel and a light gas block.
I think the main reason people get FF is for "tacticool". Your MOE HG will probably do all you really need and you'd never see a $200-$300 benefit for a FF. If you want the sturdiness of an alum. HG, I'd get a 2-piece Troy (light) for $160.
IMO, I think the MOE is going to make prices of the 2-piece HG come down, especially as soon as the MOE middy's come out.
But maybe it's just me... :)
What are you looking to do/get out of the handguards. You might be able to save some money and time going a different route.
I have a DI (drop in) set of Troy handguards, a set of Daniele Defense Omega Hand Guards, a set of MOE and a set of Troy VTAC handguards. They all get the job done and their prices are from about $28-230.
Well I thought about getting a yhm two pice hand guard but I'm going for looks more than anything. I'm looking at gettin the vltor ff hand guard I just like the way it looks.
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