View Full Version : Nikon M-223 vs Leupold Mark AR
motorwerks
09-24-10, 16:05
I'm looking for a magnified optic in this range, the prices are in about the right area. I have looked through them both a ton of times and cant see an obvious difference in the clarity. I have to say I like the Nikon side focus, better but not enough to discount the Leupold. This is driving me nuts, I cant for the life of me decide one or the other. The local gun stores have one of each they are about $100 bucks apart, but again thats not enough to discount the Leupold. Blarrr
does anyone have any experience with these two, one way or the other? Is one really better then the other?
To me it is. $100 towards a BCE 1.5 : )
motorwerks
09-25-10, 13:01
yeah that would be my same thought but I already pinned my Vortex. I couldn't wait any longer. I'll end up with one at some point just not now. Its coming up on cooler weather so I wanna go poke holes in coyotes, and while I could do it with my crap scope I have now, or even my open sights, it would be MUCH easier with a nicer scope.
I'm doing some shopping/researching right now also and like what the M223's have to offer. Although their lineup is specifically tuned for a .223 55 grain round traveling at 3240fps, they have an online program where you can dial in to your exact ammo specs.
Leupold is made in USA; not sure about Nikon.
Dunno if that matters to ya.
I got a Nikon M-223 3-12x42 SF scope (Nikoplex reticle) about two months ago from Primary Arms for $338.00 delivered. They have since raised the price by $20.00, but still not a bad deal.I am happy with mine.
motorwerks
09-26-10, 04:24
I'm doing some shopping/researching right now also and like what the M223's have to offer. Although their lineup is specifically tuned for a .223 55 grain round traveling at 3240fps, they have an online program where you can dial in to your exact ammo specs.
Leupold does the exact same thing. Their turrets are even already at 55grn.
Leupold is made in USA; not sure about Nikon.
Dunno if that matters to ya.
Japan I think..... but I shoot with Nikon cameras too. I do like the Made in the USA stamp but not 100% necessary. The Luepold is at a Local Small shop, while the Nikon is at a Chain to me I would rather support the US and the local guy.
I got a Nikon M-223 3-12x42 SF scope (Nikoplex reticle) about two months ago from Primary Arms for $338.00 delivered. They have since raised the price by $20.00, but still not a bad deal.I am happy with mine.
The part about happy with yours is good to hear. I haven't really heard anything bad about ether.
The good news is I NORMALLY shoot factory 55grn loads. I'm pretty close to just going after the Leupold. I wont have my check till Monday or Tuesday anyway so I have a day or two to stew on it. I do like the fact that the Nikon comes with the antireflection thingy. It sucks the pros are with the Nikon but I am still being drawn to the Leupold.
motorwerks
09-26-10, 04:28
poop....
Leupold Full Lifetime Guarantee.
The Nikon M223 Rifle Scope is covered by a lifetime factory warranty.
this is tough....
motorwerks
09-26-10, 06:29
good marks for the Mark AR....
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/reviews.jsp?productid=713304
I have no idea if this guy has any idea what the hell he's talking about LOL.......
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/reviews.jsp?productid=713425
I looked at both of them side by side along with the Bushnell elite 3200 and 4200 models and also a Zeiss Conquest . I prefered the Nikon glass, eye relief and less critical head positioning over the Leupold AR. I prefered the lighter weight and size of the Leupold over the Nikon. To utilize the full 600 yd range of the rapid action elevation dial you will need to use the Nikon mount with its built in 20 moa . I am using the the Larue LT-104 mount . Also, the Nikon has a large diameter eye piece and thick walled lens covers and the only rear flip-up sight that has enough clearance for me is the KAC Micro 300 rear sight.
motorwerks
09-26-10, 15:46
please excuse my rookie question for just a second, but why the 20 moa mount over say my Warne ultra high rings? My plan is to poke holes in paper out to 600 yards (and Coyotes, Squirrels, and Prairie dogs from 400 to 500-ish) so thats something I will want to consider.
please excuse my rookie question for just a second, but why the 20 moa mount over say my Warne ultra high rings? My plan is to poke holes in paper out to 600 yards (and Coyotes, Squirrels, and Prairie dogs from 400 to 500-ish) so thats something I will want to consider.
I have the Nikon M-223 3-12X 42 SF with the Nikoplex reticle. This scope is setup for the ballistics of a 55gr bullet out of a 20 inch barrel. Unless you use the Nikon 20 moa mount or another mount that has 20 moa or more you will run out of elevation adjustment before you get to 600 yds. This Nikon scope has 60 moa elevation adjustment and the Leupold AR 4-12x scope has 55 moa elevation adjustment.The Leupold AR scope is also setup for the 55gr bullet.
motorwerks
09-26-10, 18:39
I have the Nikon M-223 3-12X 42 SF with the Nikoplex reticle. This scope is setup for the ballistics of a 55gr bullet out of a 20 inch barrel. Unless you use the Nikon 20 moa mount or another mount that has 20 moa or more you will run out of elevation adjustment before you get to 600 yds. This Nikon scope has 60 moa elevation adjustment and the Leupold AR 4-12x scope has 55 moa elevation adjustment.The Leupold AR scope is also setup for the 55gr bullet.
Ahhh gotcha. So when you say 20moa ( I understand moa ) is it angled up 20moa? I'm just a little confused.
EDIT: Nevermind got it..... from the Nikon site.... "Lightweight alloy construction with built-in 20-MOA incline to maximize elevation for extreme long range shooting."
motorwerks
09-26-10, 18:50
Interestingly enough that's never been discussed anywhere with ether of these and the thought hadn't even crossed my mind that I would run out of elevation, since both of these are marketed toward AR's. The good news is it is going on a 20 inch gun. :smile:
The bad news is I may have to sell my damned rings. :suicide2:
I have to admit I'm a newb when it comes to Optics. The only magnified scope I have ever had is the POS Simmons I have on it now that I hate but its all I could afford while I researched and saved up a little. Other wise My EO tech and Vortex Strikefire have been good to me. :D
motorwerks
09-26-10, 23:37
OK so question about the Nikon...... with the BDR you Zero it and then just drop the cross hair on target at your 100 yard Zeroed Range, then the first circle if you are at 200 yards from the target, 2nd circle for 300 yards and so on (or at least I think thats the case) if that is the case, then why the worry about the 20moa mount. Wont the BDC be pretty close no matter what?
Second think I think I am going to go to the Leupold reason being, I wont be stuck with a BDR limiting me to one caliber. Its mil-dot, that translates so if I say want to put it on a .308 someday down the line...... I call Leu with the specs give them my CC number and I have a new dial with the right notches, and the center of my Scope translates over. I know Nikon has Nikoplex (or whatever its called) but my local gun stores don't have one I can play with. I also think I may want to at some point build an AR-10 something to really get way out there, now I wouldn't use this scope but I would be looking at the Mark AR in 6-18 for that gun, and all of the stuff is in the exact same place and all translates right over for a quicker learning curve. So thats my thoughts as of today but I have been such a chick over this thing already I may change my mind 14 more times.
Canonshooter
09-27-10, 04:41
I am also in the market for some magnified optics for my 16" mid length ss410 BCM. Looking at the specs for both of these scopes, the Leupold is over 4 ounces lighter. Four ounces here, four ounces there is how you end up with a 12 pound carbine. That said, both of these look good to me though I'd go with the lighter of the two.
I'm inclined to go with a H1/T1 in an offset mount (about 5 ounces total) for the close-range work and then go with something more specialized (higher magnification) as the main optic. With this approach, you're not limited to trying to "do it all" with one optic.
For example;
H1/T1 in offset mount (5 ounces) with;
1. Leupold 3-9X Mark AR - 12.5 ounces
2. Leuplold 6X36 FX-2 - 10.0 ounces
3. Leupold 6x42 FX-3 - 13.6 ounces
4. Leupold 2.5X20 - 6.5 ounces (ACOG/Mini ACOG magnification range with better eye relief and FOV)
Consider that some of the most popular 1-4X illuminated scopes weigh well over 16 ounces. With the above, you have the Aimpoint (and its "last forever" battery) advantage for close-range and better optics for the longer range/precision work, with equal or less weight. Of course, you still need to add in the mount for any of these scopes.
At the moment, this is what I'm looking to do.
OK so question about the Nikon...... with the BDR you Zero it and then just drop the cross hair on target at your 100 yard Zeroed Range, then the first circle if you are at 200 yards from the target, 2nd circle for 300 yards and so on (or at least I think thats the case) if that is the case, then why the worry about the 20moa mount. Wont the BDC be pretty close no matter what?
I recently decided between a Leupold Mark AR 3-9x and a Nikon M-223 2-8x. I went with the Nikon; I felt the glass and construction was higher quality than the Mark AR.
Mine has the BDC reticle and also the 20 MOA mount. My reasoning for combining the two was that I could use the BDC as a "hasty reticle" but still dial in elevation if I cared to or had more time. I didn't like the idea of estimating holdover with the Nikoplex reticle; of course, the Mark AR's Mildot reticle could be used the same way.
Somehow I've ended up with three Nikon scopes, and I'm satisfied with each.
H.Duty,
Take a look at Nikon's Spot On web site found on Nikonhunting.com
It will give you all the ballistic information so that you can make an accurate shot. It gives you distances for all the BDC circles at different magnifications that you can keep with you in the field or place on your stock.
This Ballistic program will work with all types of ammo from 22lr to 50cal. muzzleloaders.
Hope this helps?
motorwerks
10-14-10, 01:09
I am still undecided, but since I ran out of money it doesn't really matter for today. Next check maybe. Lol
Weight isn't a real big deal to me, this things mostly a bench gun right now, but even if I go with a lighter barrel...... I'm 6foot4 260 if my guns to heavy....... I need to go to the gym.
H.Duty,
Take a look at Nikon's Spot On web site found on Nikonhunting.com
It will give you all the ballistic information so that you can make an accurate shot. It gives you distances for all the BDC circles at different magnifications that you can keep with you in the field or place on your stock.
This Ballistic program will work with all types of ammo from 22lr to 50cal. muzzleloaders.
Hope this helps?
Bart - Spot On was one of the reasons I went with Nikon's BDC over the Nikoplex. It's a nice little app!
Welcome aboard!
Thanks Ken, If you have had time to play with the program it can provide you with a lot of hunting application information. A lot of guys don't realize they can even print out the scope picture with distances attached to the circles related to the magnification.
Glad you are putting it to good use. Great web site here, a lot of incredibly knowledgable and experienced members.
motorwerks
10-15-10, 16:22
sucks spot-on doesnt seem to work with my Mac. :rolleyes:
Ditto for me too, Motor...but I just reboot with bootcamp and I use it there : ) Grab a cheap copy of XP or greater and load it on that puppy. Couldn't be easier. I love my iMac!!!
For some older Mac's the Spot On site can be a bit finicky. I did try it on a 8 year old pod Mac and got it to work 1st time.
Again go to Nikonhunting.com then click on the Spot On logo for almost all of your ballistic needs.
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