View Full Version : Which Aimpoint for a SBR?
I have a 10.5" LMT and I've been wanting to try an Aimpoint for some time now. I'm looking at the H-1, T-1, ML3 and CompC3. I don't need NV and I don't plan on getting a 3XMag. Price isn't a huge concern but I wouldn't mind saving a few bucks if I can. Battery life isn't an issue with any of them and I'll be using LaRue mounts. The size/weight of the Micro is a plus. What are your thoughts?
If you plan on getting the 3X Magnifier get the 2MOA otherwise 4MOA will work nicely.
Get the CompC3. The electronics are the same as an M/ML3 ie. 50,000 hour battery life. It is not NVD compatible and only submersible to 15 feet vice 150 feet. Otherwise it is just as rugged and about $80-100 cheaper than an ML3.
That all said, you can purchase an ML2 in an LT mount from the Larue Tactical website for $480, which is an excellent deal. The ML2 has only a 10,000 hour constant on battery life (8760 hours/year). But if you are turning it off during periods of non use then it could conceivably last the shelf life of a Lithium battery or 10 years.
S/F
I'd probably go with a 4 MOA ML3.
charlie505
07-13-07, 14:11
I'd probably go with a 4 MOA ML3.
Why 4MOA dot over 2MOA dot?
I thought the smaller dot would be more accurate in close up situations
Why 4MOA dot over 2MOA dot?
I thought the smaller dot would be more accurate in close up situations
I think you have your logic backwards.
Close up, accurate is easy and fast is what you need. = bigger dot
At distance, accurate is harder and you can take your time. = smaller dot
I have a 10.5" LMT and I've been wanting to try an Aimpoint for some time now. I'm looking at the H-1, T-1, ML3 and CompC3. I don't need NV and I don't plan on getting a 3XMag. Price isn't a huge concern but I wouldn't mind saving a few bucks if I can. Battery life isn't an issue with any of them and I'll be using LaRue mounts. The size/weight of the Micro is a plus. What are your thoughts?
Stick with either the M or ML series. I own a M3 & have owned a ML2. From you list get the ML3....or grab a ML2 for under $400.
Alpha Sierra
07-13-07, 20:44
Get the CompC3. The electronics are the same as an M/ML3 ie. 50,000 hour battery life. It is not NVD compatible and only submersible to 15 feet vice 150 feet. Otherwise it is just as rugged and about $80-100 cheaper than an ML3.
Or for even bigger savings, troll ebay and TOS for deals on CompC2s.
Alpha Sierra
07-13-07, 20:47
Stick with either the M or ML series. I own a M3 & have owned a ML2. From you list get the ML3....or grab a ML2 for under $400.
I think very few of us need to go scuba diving with our rifles. That is the substantive difference between the C and ML series. And about $100.
I have an older CompC and cannot see the value in the "mil-spec" versions mostly because I am not in the military and the CompC will handle any sporting or defensive use I can throw at it.
Since no NV is wanted, I would go with the H-1 in a LT mount. Small and light. Perfect for an SBR IMHO.
I have the Aimpoint H-1 and LT mounts in stock. Shoot me an e-mail for member pricing (if interested).
C4
Is the ML3 the best option if I want to get a 3XMAG in the future?
Alpha Sierra
07-13-07, 22:45
I would go with the H-1 in a LT mount. Small and light. Perfect for an SBR IMHO.
Good point. Those mini Aimpoints are cool.
deserteaglexxx
07-14-07, 02:37
I got the T-1 from Grant it is awsome you don't need NV so I would get the H-1 you won't be sorry.
Is the ML3 the best option if I want to get a 3XMAG in the future?
That or the C3 as they can both be had with a 2MOA dot.
C4
Submariner
07-14-07, 08:36
Get the CompC3. The electronics are the same as an M/ML3 ie. 50,000 hour battery life. It is not NVD compatible and only submersible to 15 feet vice 150 feet. Otherwise it is just as rugged and about $80-100 cheaper than an ML3.
That all said, you can purchase an ML2 in an LT mount from the Larue Tactical website for $480, which is an excellent deal. The ML2 has only a 10,000 hour constant on battery life (8760 hours/year). But if you are turning it off during periods of non use then it could conceivably last the shelf life of a Lithium battery or 10 years.
S/F
I picked up a used 2 MOA C3 on a LaRue cantilever mount from a forum member here for $350 and an ML2 on an LT150 for $325 from another forum member. Both work just fine. Both companies have great warranties.
There are lots of good deals out there on quality gear as folks sell to upgrade. Buy used and put the difference in training and ammo (from Grant, of coors.)
Close up, accurate is easy and fast is what you need. = bigger dot
At distance, accurate is harder and you can take your time. = smaller dot
You can train to click on a [2MOA] a couple more clicks for a brighter / larger dot, but you can't make that 4MOA smaller for longer shots.
edit [typo]
You can train to click on a 4MOA a couple more clicks for a brighter / larger dot, but you can't make that 4MOA smaller for longer shots.
I've said that elsewhere too, but for the purposes of this thread and in discussing an SBR I don't see the point. Your effective range with an SBR is going to be so short that there's no need. I can make, and have made, good repeated hits on 12-18" steel at 200 yards with a 6933 and a 4 MOA Aimpoint, and even that is well past the effective range of that gun.
My SBRs are for home and close-range hunting. For that the added speed of the 4 MOA dot is more valuable than the precision of the 2 MOA.
Sure, but I would say that in the case of training with a set of optics that you'll use on your 16" carbine and 10" SBR, having the exact same setup has it's advantages. Luckily ARs are not finicky like 1911s and you have load up multiple magazines with rounds that will work in both also. Makes for a better grab and go situation.
I guess I've been lucky with my 1911s.:confused:
I also don't follow in the "exact same setup" idea. If you can't adjust from using a 2 MOA dot to using a 4 MOA dot you probably have bigger issues than training.
For instance, I use a 3x Compact ACOG on my 16" and a 1.5x Compact ACOG on my 11.5" without a problem. They both have red triangles, while one has a ranging stadia underneath.
kiss...
again, if one can't figure out a 2 MOA from the 4 MOA, it would appear that the second "S" is the operable word.
...and with that you have the last word..., or not?
It's not about the last word, it's about you starting to make sense at some point, or not.
Are you honestly saying that you'd mount a 2 MOA Aimpoint on an SBR simply because you'd use the 2 MOA Aimpint on a 16" gun, and you wouldn't want to get confused looking at a 4 MOA dot instead of a 2 MOA dot when switching from one gun or the other?:confused:
I'm not going to get into an idiotic discussion with you. Pass your bait to someone else. We all know aimpoint according to rob-s by now, give it a rest.
I also prefer 2 MOA, but that's just me.
PS-Am I on M4C, or TOS?...Beginning to feel like the latter.
QuietShootr
07-20-07, 21:09
I prefer the 2 moa.
Yeah. Posting ranges is pointless and subject to the bullshit flag, but I demonstrated last weekend to some disbelieving folks that a 12" target at 220 yards is NOT anywhere close to safe from an LMT 10.5" with 2MOA Aimpoint.
It really boils down to personal preference. I prefer the 2 MOA for carbines, however 4 MOA for MK18/11.5" barrels would be more than adequate.
Something else that can be considered using the 2 MOA and 4 MOA for range estimation. Keeping in mind that the lethal ballistic envelope of 5.56 for various barrel lengths.
2 MOA will appear as a 2" dot on a threat/target at 100 yards, 4" dot at 200 yards, 6" at 300 yards.
4 MOA will appear as a 4" dot on a threat/target at 100 yards, 8" dot at 200 yards, 12" at 300 yards.
Human head is roughly 9" in diameter and the human chest is roughly 19" across. Thus, if with a 4 MOA dot if it nearly covers a persons head then they are at 200 yards. If you have a good 50/200 yard zero then POA/POI. If the dot almost covers the chest then hold the dot around the head/neck to allow for the ballistic drop for a 300+ yard shot.
You can also do range estimation with the 2 MOA dot in a similar fashion.
S/F
The whole point of a SBR is for CQB...Right..
So why would you want a precision optic on it....
4 MOA is quick and fast and will get you good solid hits out to 300meters
You look at the size dot that IPSC and USPSA shooters use and it's bigger the 4MOA.. That's the whole point of a red dot fast with practical accuracy......
It's all personnel preference, but if it were me... I would get a good M2 with a 4MOA and have a SBR that allows me to command my "space in a 200meter plus circle.....
4MOA dot is plenty accurate out to 200-300yds.
I'd consider getting the ML2 to save some $$$.
An Aimpoint with a 2MOA dot vs. one with a 4MOA dot isn't going to be show stopper either way.......
CarlosDJackal
07-23-07, 18:21
FWIW, I have an ML3 on a Larue mount with a 4x magnifier on a Samson flip mount on my SBR (LMT 10.5" upper on an RRA lower).
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