rykyard
09-26-10, 19:44
AAR – Vickers Tactical Pistol I / Carbine I – Bend, OR - September 17-20, 2010
Instructor: Larry Vickers
Facility: COSSA Range – Bend, OR hosted by Scot and Evan Hill
This was my second time training with Larry Vickers, the first was basic carbine and pistol about a year and half ago at the same location with the same host. There where quite a few returning students from that course and it was good to touch base with those that I hadn't seen since.
As this was a not a “basic” course the level of student vetting was a bit more rigorous, Scot Hill did a great jobs in this regard and this allowed Larry to add some drills that are not usually a part of his level 1 courses. With one exception during the pistol portion there was no “that guy”. Scot and his brother Evan do a great job hosting, everything ran smoothly and professionally.
I've had the opportunity to attend quite a bit of training over the last year and half between my 2 LAV experiences. For the most part, these courses have provided me with excellent skill development. In reality I probably train to much and practice not enough, though my practice habits have improved greatly over the last several months. However, I have picked up a couple of bad habits with the pistol, which Larry identified immediately and provided LAV's trademark “gentle” mentoring. ROFL
Central Oregon, high desert weather is always an event. Clear blue skies to thunderheads to heavy rain back to blue skis can (and did) happen very quickly throughout the training.
Pistol 1:
Weather: blue skies with some light showers, both days.
The students where primarily civilians with 2 LEOs and one .mil.
As most are probably aware Larry's teaching focuses on accuracy, all else is secondary. Therefore the day started with several hours of partner drills that emphasis trigger control; the “dime” drill, variations of the ball&dummy drill and trigger reset drills. Flinching is a natural physiological response that can only be minimized with proper practice and these drills do wonders for understanding and mitigating this. Having a training partner for these types of drills will greatly increase the value of that practice.
Larry utilizes team competitions and “walk backs” as integral components of his training. These types of drills specifically enforce the current teaching point and provide additional stressors for the students; either not wanting to let the team down and/or be embarrassed while everyone else looks on. This sort of thing is invaluable to a training exercise. Techniques that may work well under limited stress might start to breakdown in “the real world”. Larry discusses each of the techniques he advocates, admitting for some that they may not be the “fastest” but are proven to work in the most real of situations. Larry brings this context to each teaching block: reloads, malfunctions, shooting on the move, etc.
Pistols where mostly Glocks with a number of M&P's, 1911s and one .40 HK USPc. I didn't see any other types. There where few gear problems, one student had a drop leg rig that was set up very low on the leg and a few of the 1911's started to choke a bit near the end of the training days. I don't recall any other issues.
Larry was using a red dot equipped glock, (trijicon RMR on a G17). The advantage of this set up becomes very apparent during longer range shots with the pistol (50 yds +). Larry mentioned that “wobble” is quite a bit different with a RDS vs irons and he is still becoming used to it. (he was hitting off hand shots at 100 yds without trouble, btw).
Carbine 2:
Weather: TD1 was heavy wind and rain, TD2 was blue skies and windy.
This class was almost all civilian, with one 11B NCO from an OR NG unit with several combat deployments. A bit less than half of the pistol class also attended the carbine course.
Similarly to the pistol training, the focus was on accuracy first in each round of drills. Time requirements, and competition elements where added to place stress on students. In general, carbines (equipped with a quality RDS) are “easier” than pistols, but there are some unique issues that arise, particularly mechanical offset which, if you don't practice consistently will show up.
Carbines where all AR-15 style weapons and sights where 3 or 4 Eotechs, a couple 1x4 variable scopes, the rest where Aimpoints and these where primarily Micros. One student ran iron sights for most of the course until his weapon went down with a trigger issue (more on this in a minute). I loaned this student my back up rifle (a DDM4 with an Aimpoint M4) which he ran for the remainder of the course, which where primarily SOM drills. After running the drills his eyes where (literally) opened to the obvious benefits of the RDS. The problem with the trigger was an incorrectly installed hammer spring, this was the second student to have this exact issue during the class (we fixed the other student's gun during lunch of TD1). These where the only gun related malfunctions in the carbine portion which is probably a testament to the good word getting out about quality manufacturers (BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, etc). As well as an understanding that running guns wet is a good thing.
Anyone who has attended a Vickers Tactical course or read an AAR from one of his course knows what Larry's view on “round count” is. The rule is that within a given training day there are only so many “good” shots that one can take before shooting anymore becomes counter-productive. A good shot is an accurate shot, or at least one where accuracy is the goal. The actual count varies with the shooter and the shooter's experience, but Larry feels that for a Pistol/Carbine course of this type the number is typically around 300-350 rounds. We where right about at this count for all 4 days of training.
A highlight of a course with Larry is getting to hear his perspective on the industry and the state of current gear. He talked a bit about battle rifles and it's current state of development. I'll be very interested to read the AAR for the upcoming LAV Battle Rifle course in November(i think?).
As a quick aside I want to mention something that I have learned over the last year or so that has helped increase the value of my training. I make a point not to “compete” with those on the line next to me, I used to do this kind of thing all the time, thinking I was pushing myself to excel. However, if I mentally stay in my own head (at least where performance on target is concerned) I'm able to cultivate a much more productive focus. This has many additional benefits, not getting caught up in where you “rank” frees up some important mental cycles, and giving you a more “global” view of the exercise and this improves situational awareness. This also directly correlates to proper follow through on your own shots and being able to call one's own shots. I know when and how I miss when I throw a shot, disappointing sure, but gratifying to know that I'm aware of it, you can't get to that point if you are dick measuring all the time.
My gear for the course: Gen3 Glock 19 with a surefire x300 in a RCS holster for the pistol portion and in a saftariland ALS holster on a UBL attached to an ATS warbelt for the carbine portion. The glock has ~3k rounds through it without an issue. My carbine is a BCM mid-length 16” @ approx. 15K rounds, boringly reliable. I used an ATS MCH-M4 chest rig that continues to work well after several years, no surprise. The only issue I experienced with my gear was having the front sight tritium insert fall out of my Glock's Heinie sights. This was a non-issue from a training perspective as one doesn't use the dots with handgun sights in most circumstances.
I look forward to training with Larry again in 2011. Bend is a great city/town and I always enjoy the people and my time spent there.
Instructor: Larry Vickers
Facility: COSSA Range – Bend, OR hosted by Scot and Evan Hill
This was my second time training with Larry Vickers, the first was basic carbine and pistol about a year and half ago at the same location with the same host. There where quite a few returning students from that course and it was good to touch base with those that I hadn't seen since.
As this was a not a “basic” course the level of student vetting was a bit more rigorous, Scot Hill did a great jobs in this regard and this allowed Larry to add some drills that are not usually a part of his level 1 courses. With one exception during the pistol portion there was no “that guy”. Scot and his brother Evan do a great job hosting, everything ran smoothly and professionally.
I've had the opportunity to attend quite a bit of training over the last year and half between my 2 LAV experiences. For the most part, these courses have provided me with excellent skill development. In reality I probably train to much and practice not enough, though my practice habits have improved greatly over the last several months. However, I have picked up a couple of bad habits with the pistol, which Larry identified immediately and provided LAV's trademark “gentle” mentoring. ROFL
Central Oregon, high desert weather is always an event. Clear blue skies to thunderheads to heavy rain back to blue skis can (and did) happen very quickly throughout the training.
Pistol 1:
Weather: blue skies with some light showers, both days.
The students where primarily civilians with 2 LEOs and one .mil.
As most are probably aware Larry's teaching focuses on accuracy, all else is secondary. Therefore the day started with several hours of partner drills that emphasis trigger control; the “dime” drill, variations of the ball&dummy drill and trigger reset drills. Flinching is a natural physiological response that can only be minimized with proper practice and these drills do wonders for understanding and mitigating this. Having a training partner for these types of drills will greatly increase the value of that practice.
Larry utilizes team competitions and “walk backs” as integral components of his training. These types of drills specifically enforce the current teaching point and provide additional stressors for the students; either not wanting to let the team down and/or be embarrassed while everyone else looks on. This sort of thing is invaluable to a training exercise. Techniques that may work well under limited stress might start to breakdown in “the real world”. Larry discusses each of the techniques he advocates, admitting for some that they may not be the “fastest” but are proven to work in the most real of situations. Larry brings this context to each teaching block: reloads, malfunctions, shooting on the move, etc.
Pistols where mostly Glocks with a number of M&P's, 1911s and one .40 HK USPc. I didn't see any other types. There where few gear problems, one student had a drop leg rig that was set up very low on the leg and a few of the 1911's started to choke a bit near the end of the training days. I don't recall any other issues.
Larry was using a red dot equipped glock, (trijicon RMR on a G17). The advantage of this set up becomes very apparent during longer range shots with the pistol (50 yds +). Larry mentioned that “wobble” is quite a bit different with a RDS vs irons and he is still becoming used to it. (he was hitting off hand shots at 100 yds without trouble, btw).
Carbine 2:
Weather: TD1 was heavy wind and rain, TD2 was blue skies and windy.
This class was almost all civilian, with one 11B NCO from an OR NG unit with several combat deployments. A bit less than half of the pistol class also attended the carbine course.
Similarly to the pistol training, the focus was on accuracy first in each round of drills. Time requirements, and competition elements where added to place stress on students. In general, carbines (equipped with a quality RDS) are “easier” than pistols, but there are some unique issues that arise, particularly mechanical offset which, if you don't practice consistently will show up.
Carbines where all AR-15 style weapons and sights where 3 or 4 Eotechs, a couple 1x4 variable scopes, the rest where Aimpoints and these where primarily Micros. One student ran iron sights for most of the course until his weapon went down with a trigger issue (more on this in a minute). I loaned this student my back up rifle (a DDM4 with an Aimpoint M4) which he ran for the remainder of the course, which where primarily SOM drills. After running the drills his eyes where (literally) opened to the obvious benefits of the RDS. The problem with the trigger was an incorrectly installed hammer spring, this was the second student to have this exact issue during the class (we fixed the other student's gun during lunch of TD1). These where the only gun related malfunctions in the carbine portion which is probably a testament to the good word getting out about quality manufacturers (BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, etc). As well as an understanding that running guns wet is a good thing.
Anyone who has attended a Vickers Tactical course or read an AAR from one of his course knows what Larry's view on “round count” is. The rule is that within a given training day there are only so many “good” shots that one can take before shooting anymore becomes counter-productive. A good shot is an accurate shot, or at least one where accuracy is the goal. The actual count varies with the shooter and the shooter's experience, but Larry feels that for a Pistol/Carbine course of this type the number is typically around 300-350 rounds. We where right about at this count for all 4 days of training.
A highlight of a course with Larry is getting to hear his perspective on the industry and the state of current gear. He talked a bit about battle rifles and it's current state of development. I'll be very interested to read the AAR for the upcoming LAV Battle Rifle course in November(i think?).
As a quick aside I want to mention something that I have learned over the last year or so that has helped increase the value of my training. I make a point not to “compete” with those on the line next to me, I used to do this kind of thing all the time, thinking I was pushing myself to excel. However, if I mentally stay in my own head (at least where performance on target is concerned) I'm able to cultivate a much more productive focus. This has many additional benefits, not getting caught up in where you “rank” frees up some important mental cycles, and giving you a more “global” view of the exercise and this improves situational awareness. This also directly correlates to proper follow through on your own shots and being able to call one's own shots. I know when and how I miss when I throw a shot, disappointing sure, but gratifying to know that I'm aware of it, you can't get to that point if you are dick measuring all the time.
My gear for the course: Gen3 Glock 19 with a surefire x300 in a RCS holster for the pistol portion and in a saftariland ALS holster on a UBL attached to an ATS warbelt for the carbine portion. The glock has ~3k rounds through it without an issue. My carbine is a BCM mid-length 16” @ approx. 15K rounds, boringly reliable. I used an ATS MCH-M4 chest rig that continues to work well after several years, no surprise. The only issue I experienced with my gear was having the front sight tritium insert fall out of my Glock's Heinie sights. This was a non-issue from a training perspective as one doesn't use the dots with handgun sights in most circumstances.
I look forward to training with Larry again in 2011. Bend is a great city/town and I always enjoy the people and my time spent there.