View Full Version : Flying/layovers in LAX, Chicago, NY, etc with "assault" rifles
Let's say you're flying from Arizona to the East Coast and have a layover in LA. Your California-banned AR is in a locked/declared case that you checked in Phoenix. Are there any potential issues to worry about, such as if your LA-DC flight were canceled?
Some states with draconian gun laws have "peacable journey" laws, some don't. Always best to check ahead.
There is always Federal law as well.
http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59
If you get stuck on a layover, do not get that case. Let the airline keep it.
I suggest reading this just for informational purposes... Sometimes things go very wrong. http://volokh.com/2010/03/30/unexpected-flight-delay-hotel-stay-criminal-prosecution-for-gun-possession/
montanadave
09-27-10, 14:39
I had a firearms instructor discuss a case where an individual in transit had a delay/cancellation while in NYC which necessitated him retrieving his luggage (tagged as containing a firearm, pistol in this case) and carrying it through JFK to make alternative travel arrangements. According to the story, local law enforcement, spotting the tagged luggage, detained him and charged him with possession of an illegal firearm.
Two votes for leave the bag with the airline.
Good info- thanks gents. Whenever I've been rerouted, I've never taken possession of the checked bag- the airline always does it. And it's not like LA->DC is a once weekly flight.
I just read in the current issue of American Rifleman that there was in fact a case where the guy was arrested for unlawful handgun possession and possession of hollowpoints in NJ. Even though he didn't have access to the weapons or ammo.
I would be very CAREFUL.
I just read in the current issue of American Rifleman that there was in fact a case where the guy was arrested for unlawful handgun possession and possession of hollowpoints in NJ. Even though he didn't have access to the weapons or ammo.
I would be very CAREFUL.
Yeah, it sure makes DFW or DEN sound like a better connection, doesn't it?
The case above, however, is going to be very hard to prosecute. If it was in checked baggage, I'd argue that he was not in possession of ammunition or firearms in New Jersey- the airline and/or baggage handlers were. And what if those baggage handlers were convicted felons?........
The bottom line is that it is bullshit that law-abiding gun owners need to worry about this stuff. Oh well, maybe we'll get some lawmakers with common sense one day.
If I recall correctly he has already been charged and convicted and is appealing the case. I'll have to go back and look at it.
Yeah, it sure makes DFW or DEN sound like a better connection, doesn't it?
The case above, however, is going to be very hard to prosecute. If it was in checked baggage, I'd argue that he was not in possession of ammunition or firearms in New Jersey- the airline and/or baggage handlers were. And what if those baggage handlers were convicted felons?........
The bottom line is that it is bullshit that law-abiding gun owners need to worry about this stuff. Oh well, maybe we'll get some lawmakers with common sense one day.
pilotguyo540
09-27-10, 15:35
I have traveled with firearms in all of the California hub airports. I have never been harassed in any way shape or form going from the car to the counter. This actually surprised me in SFO the first time. I don't see any issues with California LEO in this case. They are usually very professional. Caution is always wise though.
Now if your flight gets cancelled on the second leg of the trip and you are stranded at a hub until the next morning I would request that the airline remain in possession of that item.
Odds are really unlikely with this entire scenario. If this does in fact happen to you, god really has it out for you:haha:
kaiservontexas
09-27-10, 15:40
And people wonder why there are places I will not step foot in . . .
And people wonder why there are places I will not step foot in . . .
you can't help but think that you're just not welcome in states that would give you 5 to 10 for doing the things you normally do every day without incident.... :rolleyes:
I flew down to Miami in Feb 2009 and had a layover at CHI-Ohare and had zero issues. I even called the Chicago police and asked them if checked baggage was OK due their f*ckingretardedasshandgunbandthatdoesn'tdoshitforprotecting and one officer mentioned no, but the airline said I was golf tango golf. Landed in Miami, made it to the hotel, and all was good.
I provided some erroneous information about the New Jeresy case. Here is an excerpt that I located.
A traveler was arrested at a New Jersey airport by Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police for violating New Jersey gun laws by possessing a handgun and ammunition. The traveler, who had flown to New Jersey from Utah, had a handgun and ammunition in separate locked cases in his checked luggage. Because of a delay, he had to stay overnight in a hotel in New Jersey, and he retrieved his checked luggage before doing so. The next day, when he attempted to fly on to his destination in Pennsylvania, the gun and ammunition were detected during x-raying and he was arrested. He had declared the presence of the gun and ammunition when checking his bags in Utah, where he was licensed for the weapon. He sued for false arrest, claiming that the arrest was unlawful under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 926A, which allows a licensed gun owner to travel from one state through a second, en route to a third, provided that he is licensed to carry the weapon in the first and third state and that it is not readily accessible to him during transport, such as checked in luggage, or locked in a compartment in a vehicle. Upholding summary judgment for the defendants, a federal appeals court found that the plaintiff's conduct did not meet the requirements of the federal statute, since he retrieved his luggage containing the gun and ammunition before going to his New Jersey hotel, and had with him the keys to the locked containers, making the gun and ammunition readily accessible to him, whether or not he actually accessed them. Revell v. Erickson, #09-2029, 598 F.3d 128 (3rd Cir. 2010).
I provided some erroneous information about the New Jeresy case. Here is an excerpt that I located.
A traveler was arrested at a New Jersey airport by Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police for violating New Jersey gun laws by possessing a handgun and ammunition. The traveler, who had flown to New Jersey from Utah, had a handgun and ammunition in separate locked cases in his checked luggage. Because of a delay, he had to stay overnight in a hotel in New Jersey, and he retrieved his checked luggage before doing so. The next day, when he attempted to fly on to his destination in Pennsylvania, the gun and ammunition were detected during x-raying and he was arrested. He had declared the presence of the gun and ammunition when checking his bags in Utah, where he was licensed for the weapon. He sued for false arrest, claiming that the arrest was unlawful under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 926A, which allows a licensed gun owner to travel from one state through a second, en route to a third, provided that he is licensed to carry the weapon in the first and third state and that it is not readily accessible to him during transport, such as checked in luggage, or locked in a compartment in a vehicle. Upholding summary judgment for the defendants, a federal appeals court found that the plaintiff's conduct did not meet the requirements of the federal statute, since he retrieved his luggage containing the gun and ammunition before going to his New Jersey hotel, and had with him the keys to the locked containers, making the gun and ammunition readily accessible to him, whether or not he actually accessed them. Revell v. Erickson, #09-2029, 598 F.3d 128 (3rd Cir. 2010).
Okay so the part of that which I do not understand is that Hollow point ammo is not illegal in NJ. It is only illeal for not LEO to have HP ammo in a CCW handgun and since non LEO's will 99.9999% not get a CCW permit its rediculous to begin with. What "Illegal" ammo? I bought HP 9mm ammo at a local Dick's [Sporting goods store] cause its the only 9mm they had at the time.
You can buy it, you can transport if from the store to your house, to the range and so on. Just can't CCW with it unless you are a LEO.
And you don't need a permit to posses a handgun, only to purchase it. The Fire Arms ID card is only needed if you plan on transporting the handgun from home to range. If the gun is to stay on the property at all times you do not need the FID card. Now, you cant purchase a handgun without a FID and purchase permit, so thats another story.
NoW this I don't know. If they guy pays for the hotel room, is that now considered "his property"? If the answer is "yes", I don't see how he broke any law.
Moose-Knuckle
09-28-10, 16:45
As an American this sort of thing makes me sick, such a travesty of the law. What a joke. This is why I don't travel much.
I don't know about NJ laws, but I have heard that in NJ hollowpoint ammo is illegal. Maybe this guy had some shitty lawyer?
Okay so the part of that which I do not understand is that Hollow point ammo is not illegal in NJ. It is only illeal for not LEO to have HP ammo in a CCW handgun and since non LEO's will 99.9999% not get a CCW permit its rediculous to begin with. What "Illegal" ammo? I bought HP 9mm ammo at a local Dick's [Sporting goods store] cause its the only 9mm they had at the time.
You can buy it, you can transport if from the store to your house, to the range and so on. Just can't CCW with it unless you are a LEO.
And you don't need a permit to posses a handgun, only to purchase it. The Fire Arms ID card is only needed if you plan on transporting the handgun from home to range. If the gun is to stay on the property at all times you do not need the FID card. Now, you cant purchase a handgun without a FID and purchase permit, so thats another story.
NoW this I don't know. If they guy pays for the hotel room, is that now considered "his property"? If the answer is "yes", I don't see how he broke any law.
I would be very careful with flying through NYC with handguns or assault guns or flying through NY state with handguns.
Port Authority/airport police have been known to have their own interpretation of laws to the point of threatening to arrest NYS pistol license holders who were transporting handguns if they did not have a carry license (nevermind the fact that transporting and carry are two different things).
I try and only travel to places within driving distance. You give up all your rights in an airport and they can do / search whatever the hell they want with no probable cause whatsoever.
At least with my rifle packed in my Pilot under 300 pounds of luggage and kids toys they need to work for it, 'cause I ain't unloading it for them.
I had a firearms instructor discuss a case where an individual in transit had a delay/cancellation while in NYC which necessitated him retrieving his luggage (tagged as containing a firearm, pistol in this case) and carrying it through JFK to make alternative travel arrangements. According to the story, local law enforcement, spotting the tagged luggage, detained him and charged him with possession of an illegal firearm.
Two votes for leave the bag with the airline.
FOPA should have protected him. Was he convicted?
I believe that these cases are almost identical. IIRC Torraco was convicted and has an appeal pending before the 2nd Circuit Court. Some of thse cases are also mentioned in the new Rifleman Magazine.
http://www.leagle.com/unsecure/page.htm?shortname=infco20100630136
FOPA should have protected him. Was he convicted?
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