View Full Version : Need help with first xm177 clone build
So I am moving on from modern Ar's with rails and acogs with magpul crap etc... I am now interested in building an m16 clone and an xm177. I was wondering if a regular mil spec receiver extension will work with a xm177 stock? also I saw that dpms sells the slip over flash hider but it doesnt look exactly like the real xm177 flash hider. Does anyone know of any other slip over muzzle brakes I can buy? I want my build to look exactly like this ...
http://www.modelguns-worldwide.com/images/nwXM177k.jpg
Theres a guy called 45Bravo on TOS that makes the correct flashhiders and does barrel work where the barrel extends through it.
Cowtown556
10-01-10, 16:56
http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm uppers & lowers
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/NotsoKoolAid84/2010-10-01_15-27-55_958.jpg
Heres my clone.
Nodak upper and lower.
45 Bravo barrel work: Overall length 16.1" barrel lenthg about 14"
Essential Arms Alluminum stock
Surplus BCG, A1 Grip, 6 hole handguards, sling, and various lower parts
SP1 charging handle.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/NotsoKoolAid84/2010-10-01_15-27-55_958.jpg
Heres my clone.
Nodak upper and lower.
45 Bravo barrel work: Overall length 16.1" barrel lenthg about 14"
Essential Arms Alluminum stock
Surplus BCG, A1 Grip, 6 hole handguards, sling, and various lower parts
SP1 charging handle.
Awsome rifle! what about the buffer tube will a regular millspec one work?
Carbine buffers have been the same since the 610. Only difference is color and the number of holes.
flatdarkmars
10-01-10, 20:29
45Bravo is backlogged and not accepting new barrel work at the current time. However, ADCO (http://www.adcofirearms.com/) or Arfcom member Heatnbeat can do your barrel work. The most accurate reproduction non-NFA moderator is that made by Brick (http://98.196.65.94/retroblackrifle/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=495) (currently out of stock but more coming). He also makes the grenade rings. For maximum historical correctness you may also want to have the forge flashing on the front sight base smoothed, and secure the front sling swivel with a roll pin instead of a rivet.
You can use whatever receiver extension and stock you like. The most correct would be a Colt aluminum vinyl-acetate coated carbine stock on a 2-position receiver extension, like this one (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=193494550), but be prepared to pay $300+ if you want one. There are commercial aftermarket aluminum stocks out there as well which could be substituted if you're not determined to go the correct but expensive route.
Here is a picture of my XM177E2 upper. It has an NDS-603 receiver, Bushmaster superlight barrel with Brick moderator and grenade ring, barrel work done by Adco, and a field expedient vertical foregrip I made myself (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=511600).
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/xm177e2upper07.jpg
Carbine buffers have been the same since the 610. Only difference is color and the number of holes.
Thanks for that info!
ford7379trucks
10-13-10, 21:58
45Bravo is backlogged and not accepting new barrel work at the current time. However, ADCO (http://www.adcofirearms.com/) or Arfcom member Heatnbeat can do your barrel work. The most accurate reproduction non-NFA moderator is that made by Brick (http://98.196.65.94/retroblackrifle/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=495) (currently out of stock but more coming). He also makes the grenade rings. For maximum historical correctness you may also want to have the forge flashing on the front sight base smoothed, and secure the front sling swivel with a roll pin instead of a rivet.
You can use whatever receiver extension and stock you like. The most correct would be a Colt aluminum vinyl-acetate coated carbine stock on a 2-position receiver extension, like this one (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=193494550), but be prepared to pay $300+ if you want one. There are commercial aftermarket aluminum stocks out there as well which could be substituted if you're not determined to go the correct but expensive route.
Here is a picture of my XM177E2 upper. It has an NDS-603 receiver, Bushmaster superlight barrel with Brick moderator and grenade ring, barrel work done by Adco, and a field expedient vertical foregrip I made myself (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=511600).
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/xm177e2upper07.jpg
how long is your barrel?
ford7379trucks
10-13-10, 23:03
i mean with out the moderator. :)
If the barrel extends through the moderator, then its a tad over 14". If the moderator acts as a traditional flash hider and not a shroud, then the barrel is about 12.25".
flatdarkmars
10-13-10, 23:46
how long is your barrel?
No idea. 16" OAL is all ADCO needs as instructions. But 12.2something" is right.
I'm working on a XM177E2 build and found 45Bravo totally non-responsive. Being busy is a good sign and poss. indicative of demand quality, but no matter how busy someone might be the failure to reply to a single email in today's internet age is just poor customer service in my opinion.
I asked for opinions on other forums and 2 names which quickly came to the forefront were Adco and heatNbeat (JRS@outdrs.net). I research both work and decided to use heatNbeat because his work is the cleanest, most professional, cost effective and his turnaround time is 3 weeks. Also, a good source for the XM177E2 FH is Brick. He can be found on AR15.com in the retro section. I have Brick's FH on a DPMS bbl and thinks its the very best quality for my XM build.
And heatNbeat answered my first email in 24 hours!
FaustX
"Send laywers, guns and money." - Warren Zevon
I've used Bravo Companys Mil Spec reciever extension with the coated aluminum buttstock and the fit was perfect.
So I am moving on from modern Ar's with rails and acogs with magpul crap etc... I am now interested in building an m16 clone and an xm177. I was wondering if a regular mil spec receiver extension will work with a xm177 stock? also I saw that dpms sells the slip over flash hider but it doesnt look exactly like the real xm177 flash hider. Does anyone know of any other slip over muzzle brakes I can buy? I want my build to look exactly like this ...
http://www.modelguns-worldwide.com/images/nwXM177k.jpg
Nice choice in CARs; KISS has a quality all of its own.
But avoid the slipovers, a waste of my limited money as it only looks good from about 20' - 25' away.
I'm working on a XM177E2 build and found 45Bravo totally non-responsive. Being busy is a good sign and poss. indicative of demand quality, but no matter how busy someone might be the failure to reply to a single email in today's internet age is just poor customer service in my opinion.
Or it was eaten by a spam filter, or somehow deleted....
The issue right now is getting a proper faux MODERATOR. Brick has manufactured a dandy moderator in the past, but is currently out. Supposedly more "on the way".
The wait for a good moderator has even started another retro fan investigating the feasibility of manufactuuring a good substitute.
ADCO as well as Heatnbeat are both good Smiths to get the work done.
FN in MT
11/29
BRICK just posted that he will soon have the newest batch of moderators and grenade rings ready. You might want to go to the site or e mail him and get in line.
http://98.196.65.94/retroblackrifle/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=495
FN in MT
DANG!!! I didn't realize that XM177 parts were so expensive. I have a few original parts on a rifle and in my parts box. Guess I need to take the stock off my rifle and stick it in the safe!!! Most of the parts (other than the grenade ring) are on my HD gun sitting by the bed. Took the grenade ring off years ago as it just looked goofy and I was changing FH's anyways.
Amazing what a guy has sometimes that he doesn't know is collectible.
WW
PS...none of it is currently for sale.:D
Here's my clone, it's not totally accurate but I like it.
http://i.imgur.com/00Utj.jpg
It sounds like an SBR might be quicker than waiting for the moderator.
I am going with a 10.3" bbl on a Colt slick side A1 upper. I am not sure which flash hider to go with. I saw a retro 3 prong (duck bill I think) unit and wrench made by a guy on TOS it looked awesome. One big question do the work well at flash suppression? Any first hand accounts? If not an A2, AAC or Vortex will be what I go with.
Thanks.
flatdarkmars
12-02-10, 00:48
For what it's worth, 10.3" is the modern CQBR barrel length. XM177s and 177E2s used 10" and 11.5" barrels respectively.
For what it's worth, 10.3" is the modern CQBR barrel length. XM177s and 177E2s used 10" and 11.5" barrels respectively.
Thanks.
I would really like an 11.5" bbl. I traded for a brand new M4 profile 14.5" bbl so I have no cash tied up in the bbl. With the M203 cut out in the bbl I will have to cut it at 10.3" to keep it from looking funny.
It is going to be an inexpensive build. I have $80 in a slick side Colt upper. I need to cut the bbl for about $45. All I need to buy is a front sight post and a gas tube. I have the handguards in my spare parts collection.
torquemada055
12-27-10, 03:32
603 upper bought off the EE at arfcom
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/PICT3981.jpg
Bushmaster superlight weight barrel, Bricks faux moderator and grenade ring, EA aluminum car butt, NDS A1 lower, barrel work done by ADCO w/turn around time of 10 day's from my hand back into my hand. Oh the BCG, is a BCM enhanced and it has an H buffer.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/PICT4425.jpg
MadcapMagician
12-28-10, 21:24
What is the length added to the barrel for the faux moderators? More what I'm getting at is what length barrel would one need to pin one of these on for non-NFA?
It sounds like an SBR might be quicker than waiting for the moderator.
I am going with a 10.3" bbl on a Colt slick side A1 upper. I am not sure which flash hider to go with. I saw a retro 3 prong (duck bill I think) unit and wrench made by a guy on TOS it looked awesome. One big question do the work well at flash suppression? Any first hand accounts? If not an A2, AAC or Vortex will be what I go with.
Thanks.
Anything out of a 10" barrel is brutal with what you named. There is little flash suppression, and the blast, whew! True moderators are the way to go particularly if you are pursuing historical accuracy. Have you ever thought of going that route?
Anything out of a 10" barrel is brutal with what you named. There is little flash suppression, and the blast, whew! True moderators are the way to go particularly if you are pursuing historical accuracy. Have you ever thought of going that route?
Coleslaw
I decided to leave the 14.5" M4 profile bbl alone (I was going to cut it to 10.3") and built a Colt A2 upper for an M4 look. I ordered an 11.5" bbl from BCM today for the A1. I thought about a 12.5" bbl for a Kino A1 build. I decided the 11.5" would be cheaper and easier for me to put together. I've only put together one upper before and I have a bit of Tim the Tool man in me so Kiss is often better. It will also be more a more accurate build.
exotic-toys
12-31-10, 08:38
One of my favorite AR's. I haven't posted in ages, but enjoy. Oh yea, not an exact replica, but close enough for me. The PG was swapped out shortly after these were taken for a nice mottled old one. Sorry, no nice pics of that. NDS lower and barrel work was done by a guy out of California. He did fabulous work. Name escapes me...Guess you hit 40 and the mind starts to go...LOL
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/9318/xm1qv.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6348/xm4y.jpg
acarpenter
02-03-11, 19:50
Hey exotic-toys, which barrel did you end up using? (original length, final length, mfg, etc). Is that a USGI stock?
I'd probably watch the forums for an upper and stock, Nodak for the lower, not sure yet on the barrel. I'd probably just do it all as I could afford it ;)
I really want to build one of these, but I have an m16a1 semi-auto clone and an East German AK on my plate right now!
Blast this disease! Haha.
Oh ya... everyone: beautiful builds. Keep it up!
exotic-toys
02-04-11, 04:55
Hey exotic-toys, which barrel did you end up using? (original length, final length, mfg, etc). Is that a USGI stock?
I'd probably watch the forums for an upper and stock, Nodak for the lower, not sure yet on the barrel. I'd probably just do it all as I could afford it ;)
I really want to build one of these, but I have an m16a1 semi-auto clone and an East German AK on my plate right now!
Blast this disease! Haha.
Oh ya... everyone: beautiful builds. Keep it up!
The total length of the welded FH plus barrel is 16". It took me forever to find the stock, but found this one about 6-7 years ago. The parts are out there, but you need to be able to 'pounce' as soon as they get listed. Correct - NODAK for the receiver and then send it off to IDENT for a little 'Colt' engraving.
Good luck on your project
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=311&pictureid=1722
This is a real one, so you have something to compare to.
acarpenter
02-26-11, 08:11
Getting closer to my build...
Upper with BCG, ALL the small parts
Just need a stock, moderator, barrel, mottled grip, and a lower!
What is the correct slip ring for an xm177e2? Mine won't be totally correct anyway, as it will have a 12.2 barrel, but I want to be close as I can get besides that. I already have a flat one is why I ask...
Also, how do the moderators that Brick is building not require NFA stamp if they are clones of originals?
Thanks!:cool:
Getting closer to my build...
Upper with BCG, ALL the small parts
Just need a stock, moderator, barrel, mottled grip, and a lower!
What is the correct slip ring for an xm177e2? Mine won't be totally correct anyway, as it will have a 12.2 barrel, but I want to be close as I can get besides that. I already have a flat one is why I ask...
Also, how do the moderators that Brick is building not require NFA stamp if they are clones of originals?
Thanks!:cool:
The XM-177E2 used the angled Delta ring. I believe Brick's moderators aren't really moderators, but flash hiders. I think the only thing that is cloned is the outer dimension of the originals.
xm177 barrels made with welded moderater using chrome lined Wilson 11.5" barrels $295 complete from Highpoweredarmory,330-503-2298 . Paul has made a fine barrel assy. for the XM177 clones. His moderater really cuts down the blast and flash compared to the other 3 types of legal copy moderaters being sold today. I was able to finish a XM177 copy today with his parts,stock,barrel assy with welded&pinned moderater,Xm177 handguard with 6 holes. Paul is a class act and has very good products.
All solid advice, Contact 45Bravo for the moderator/grenade ring.
Nodak upper/Lower/
Powdercoated Aluminum stock,
Anodized parts at US anodizing
Colt 6 hole HG's
Bushmaster Super lightweight barrel.
Shaved FSB
Pinned mod.
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/eboggs09/Surplus%20Collection/Picture.jpg
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af56/eboggs09/Surplus%20Collection/Picture047.jpg
45Bravo is backlogged and not accepting new barrel work at the current time. However, ADCO (http://www.adcofirearms.com/) or Arfcom member Heatnbeat can do your barrel work. The most accurate reproduction non-NFA moderator is that made by Brick (http://98.196.65.94/retroblackrifle/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=495) (currently out of stock but more coming). He also makes the grenade rings. For maximum historical correctness you may also want to have the forge flashing on the front sight base smoothed, and secure the front sling swivel with a roll pin instead of a rivet.
You can use whatever receiver extension and stock you like. The most correct would be a Colt aluminum vinyl-acetate coated carbine stock on a 2-position receiver extension, like this one (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=193494550), but be prepared to pay $300+ if you want one. There are commercial aftermarket aluminum stocks out there as well which could be substituted if you're not determined to go the correct but expensive route.
Here is a picture of my XM177E2 upper. It has an NDS-603 receiver, Bushmaster superlight barrel with Brick moderator and grenade ring, barrel work done by Adco, and a field expedient vertical foregrip I made myself (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=511600).
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx332/flatdarkmars/US%20and%20OPFOR%20rifles/xm177e2upper07.jpg
I love the homemade vfg.
acarpenter
11-21-12, 21:34
Here is how mine turned out, btw
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/punkrockdrummer5/xm177e2right.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/punkrockdrummer5/xm177e2left.jpg
I still need to cut off the bayo lug and clean up the fsb of it's cast marks.
Does anyone know if Brick or 45Bravo are still making the moderators? I am building a XM177 clone, and I am missing the barrel, moderator, and authentic handguards. I have the upper, the lower and a "plastic" carbine stock.
I would love to finish this project gun to go along with my 603 clone.
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