View Full Version : So who here carries a P7 regularly...
I bought mine as a curio piece... it seems to have charmed me into carrying it every day.
grade C PSP (one of the saxony trade in dealies)
I've concluded:
-it points more naturally for me than any pistol i've ever shot.
-it has an excellent trigger
-obscenely accurate-do your part, and all the bullet holes touch.
-the squeeze safety is good peace of mind, but also may slow my ability to fire in a high stress situation... training with it lots...
-very slim, easy to conceal and comfortable in the neutral cant MTAC i got for it-just as comfy/easy to conceal as a G26, but quicker to draw thanks to the full length grip
downsides:
-heel mag release-also maybe less likely to actuate by accident, and really not that slow of a release once you get used to it.
-parts availability.... i feel like i just bought a vintage european car or something... even little springs are hard to get. i feel like i should save up for a spare pistol.
-mags-holy crap. 65 dollars.:mad:
-complexity... it's not horrible, but i can detail strip and reassemble a glock in 3 minutes. I'm moderately afraid to take this thing apart... and i say that as an engineering student/former industrial maintenance mechanic. :o
I bought mine as a curio piece... it seems to have charmed me into carrying it every day.
grade C PSP (one of the saxony trade in dealies)
I've concluded:
-it points more naturally for me than any pistol i've ever shot.
-it has an excellent trigger
-obscenely accurate-do your part, and all the bullet holes touch.
-the squeeze safety is good peace of mind, but also may slow my ability to fire in a high stress situation... training with it lots...
-very slim, easy to conceal and comfortable in the neutral cant MTAC i got for it-just as comfy/easy to conceal as a G26, but quicker to draw thanks to the full length grip
downsides:
-heel mag release-also maybe less likely to actuate by accident, and really not that slow of a release once you get used to it.
-parts availability.... i feel like i just bought a vintage european car or something... even little springs are hard to get. i feel like i should save up for a spare pistol.
-mags-holy crap. 65 dollars.:mad:
-complexity... it's not horrible, but i can detail strip and reassemble a glock in 3 minutes. I'm moderately afraid to take this thing apart... and i say that as an engineering student/former industrial maintenance mechanic. :o
I carry mine, but not regularly - it is a niche carry for me, usually when situation requires fitted formalwear - when Glock-19 is a bit too thick and 1911 is a bit too large. I also use it for purposes of understanding AIWB carry - I feel it is very safe in this, or any mode - although P7 is somewhat of a double-edged sword here.
I agree on most of your points. I think trigger could have a shorter reset. As far as dissasembly, two points: 1) it is doable 2) don't do it. I take my Glock apart and field-strip 1911s at will, and I don't want to go through P7 again. Importantly, in 5 years owning one, I found no need other than curiousity.
My biggest issue with it is a unique manual of arms that, IN MY OPINION, contradicts conventional aspects of pistol draw and presentation. Again, in case I was too subtle :) - it is only my opinion, and I am nobody.
My P7M8 and M13 are awesome guns.
I stopped carrying them a few years back in favor of a P30. The only reason I could give is that I was concerned about parts availability.
They are the only guns that I have ever been afraid to take apart so I don't blame you one bit.
Mine have a special place in my memories, and in my safe now. My son will have to decide what to do with them many years from now. Until then, they're safe queens.
I used to carry a P7M8 daily, about 15 years ago or so.
The size/weight/capacity ratio had me go back to a G19.
It is a beautiful piece, a marvel of Teutonic engineering.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DETAIL STRIP.
You will more than likely end up with a bunch of parts that you'll have to ship back to HK for them to reassemble.
Army Chief
10-02-10, 08:20
The P7 is a niche carry piece for me, as well. It is a great pistol that still has its place, though I'm more likely to have a 1911 on me from day-to-day.
I overcame the dreaded detail strip issues many years ago. There are two techniques for this: (1) have another P7 on hand, and don't disassemble both at the same time, and (2) take good detail photos of both sides with the grips off before you attempt anything. Until you are familiar with the process, doing both is a good idea, as even the Armorer's Manual will leave you scratching your head.
AC
My biggest issue with it is a unique manual of arms that, IN MY OPINION, contradicts conventional aspects of pistol draw and presentation. Again, in case I was too subtle :) - it is only my opinion, and I am nobody.
it's defintely not 100% natural to squeeze the front of the grip as you draw.
I also have messed this aspect up while practicing. I'm feeling fairly confident with it now though.
It's basically replaced my G26 as my EDC gun to school. (colorado state reverts to state law on issues of CCW). I'm faster with this gun than i am with a glock 26 from a holster. I also shoot it better. I feel the long sight radius and exceptional accuracy might also be a benefit in a virginia tech type scenario, where the attacker is likely to be outside of the usual 21 foot range of civilian gunfights...
thank you all for talking me out of a detail strip. :D
as far as parts availability, i'm not going to sell my glocks, or the things they are carried in... so i have plenty of backups.
doesn't one of the industry pro guys carries an M8 every day still? i forget who... :confused:
eternal24k
10-02-10, 12:30
I used to,
I have found the design leads to a grip heavy gun that rotates in IWB holsters that only have 1 belt loop (Blade-tech).
It's a great gun, but not as small as I wish it was.
I used to,
I have found the design leads to a grip heavy gun that rotates in IWB holsters that only have 1 belt loop (Blade-tech).
It's a great gun, but not as small as I wish it was.
the MTAC has a rear loop waaaay back, which works nice.
something like a raven would probably work good too.
I fooled around with a P7M8 for a year (1992 I think). It was a good pistol and since I have small hands, I preferred it to the Beretta 92s and SIG 226s that everyone else just had to have.
I never had to take it apart as my local smith was also an Hk armorer so I was more than happy to let him clean my pistol.
What I do remember vividly was that the P7 can get hot really fast. Three or four magazines would usually be enough for me to lock the slide back and let the pistol sit on the bench for a while.
I traded the gun for a Rolex Submariner. After encountering the Glocks, I felt little need to locate another P7.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-10, 13:01
EDC in a Minatour that I think doesn't quite lock it up as well as I'd like, but it has never been a problem.
The whole squeeze cock thing I think is just head trash. To me you are going to draw the gun and if you grip it correctly, you are going to depress the action when you bring your second hand into the grip and extend. The squeeze cock is only 10 or so pounds, right?
The P7 was my first carry gun, before I took any real training or received a fundamental understanding of gunfighting.
The ironic thing about the P7 is that the design intent was driven by the same ultra-liability minded bureaucracy that seems to frustrate most Mil/LEO types on these forums. The squeeze cocker, while elegant and interesting, really only provides theoretical benefits as opposed to significant real-world advantages.
Sure, there is a story running around of a NJ Trooper dropping his weapon and the bad guy picks it up and can't work the P7. Great - if you are relying on something mechanical to prevent your weapon being used against you, you've got bigger problems.
In the end, I sold the P7. Part of me seriously regrets this; as a curiosity and interesting piece of engineering, it is a fantastic piece of kit. I sent mine off to Tripp Research for a matt hard chrome job and it was the ultimate BBQ gun; between the sexy looks and the interesting manual of arms and the HK brand, all my non-gun friends SWOONED over it.
What drove me to sell it:
- A Glock 19 carries almost as well with double the capacity.
- Parts are a nightmare to source.
- Significant training with it is impossible because of the heat issue.
- Magazines are stupid expensive.
- The Kahr P9 carries better, weighs less and is functionally the same; not as nice a trigger, but perfectly fine for self defense.
I do miss occasionally detail stripping the P7 though. Sort of like polishing boots in being a relaxing experience. Once you figure it out, it isn't so bad.
it's defintely not 100% natural to squeeze the front of the grip as you draw.
I also have messed this aspect up while practicing. I'm feeling fairly confident with it now though.
Activating squeezer gets really easy real fast.
The issue I was referring to usually stirs ****storm in P7 discussions; it has to do with timing - when to squeeze it upon presentation.
Every credible firearms instructor I had a privilege to train under taught two things (amongst many others): 1. The strong hand position and grip have to be finalized while gun is still in holster 2. In pistols equipped with safety, that safety comes off after gun clears the holster and at least partially indexed on target.
Due to unique properties of P7 family, those two are mutually exclusive - which has led to many arguments on "how and why"...
My P7M13 is the best gun I own. Hands down!.......... even against my old P220.
It would just be so dang hard to replace if something happened to it so it lives in the safe. Only to be taken out and fondled and shot and oiled. I wish I could afford to get another one....... then I would just carry this one and say to hell with all the Glock vs Sig vs HK vs 1911 vs M&P!
LonghunterCO
10-02-10, 16:17
Once opon a time, I carried my P7M13 but was never happy with my holster selection and the short barrel combined with the grip heaviness of the 13 rds made for a feeling of the grip moving away from my body. With todays better kydex offerings this maybe a non-issue, and with a M8 this was probably never the case.
Activating squeezer gets really easy real fast.
The issue I was referring to usually stirs ****storm in P7 discussions; it has to do with timing - when to squeeze it upon presentation.
Every credible firearms instructor I had a privilege to train under taught two things (amongst many others): 1. The strong hand position and grip have to be finalized while gun is still in holster 2. In pistols equipped with safety, that safety comes off after gun clears the holster and at least partially indexed on target.
Due to unique properties of P7 family, those two are mutually exclusive - which has led to many arguments on "how and why"...
personally i find that squeezing while rotating the gun from holster (down) to target (front) i can work in a nice squeeze. with IWB carry i find it a bit difficult to "finalize" the grip in the holster, my thumb generally doesn't fit between me and the gun comfortably. so it is maybe a hybrid technique, and god help the man that takes gunfighting advice from my sheltered ass, but it works for me.
I carried mine all last week because my off duty carry was dirty. Love the gun, hate to clean it!
VooDoo6Actual
10-02-10, 21:39
Carry a P7 M13 often while I protect individuals & I have for years.
They are a marvelous, unique pistol and design.
However, not the fastest or best in my eyes.
How many IPSC matches won or Buger Eaters killed w/ P7's vs. 1911's ?
crickets chirping....exactly.
davebee456
10-02-10, 21:48
Hop, so what is a better option ?
I carried mine all last week because my off duty carry was dirty. Love the gun, hate to clean it!
carb cleaner has been my method.
trying to find the dimensions of a carbon scraper. I'm gonna draw something up and send it to the waterjet company that sponsors our formula SAE team... wish i still had access to a waterjet... :mad:
i definitely prefer glock for high volume shooting.... easy to clean and the lower is all nice cool plastic. :eek:
if you throw a glove on your right hand 150+ round range sessions with the p7 aren't so bad...
VooDoo6Actual
10-03-10, 05:49
Hop, so what is a better option ?
I still prefer 1911 hands down for a number of reasons.
I'm in Alanta right now protecting an individual for a few weeks, small world using a 1911.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-03-10, 05:58
I was watching "Monster Garage" where they were modding a Rolls Royce. One mechanic said it was like working on a UFO since it was engineered like no other car made. I thought of the P7 when he said that. After studying the mechanism and stripping the gun a bit, I felt it was from another planet. Simple Browning type actions or 1911s seemed archaic and simplistic in comparision.
If only it would drop the mag when you cycled the squeeze cock when the slide was locked back. That would be a wicked fast reload.
teamacacia
10-03-10, 09:51
My EDC is usually a P7. After purchasing a P7M8 a handful of years ago, I jumped on a couple of the P7 trade-ins from CDNN. After a few trips to the range to verify reliability, it is now in the "carry often-shoot some" status as the parts availability issue is always in the back of my mind.
I work in a hospital in the middle of our downtown area and it probably isn't the safest place to be rolling into and out of in the middle of the night. Having something reliable on the hip always adds a little comfort.
Being a slim guy, I also have no problems concealing in dress clothes while some of my full size pistols require more loose fitting clothes.
All the accolades aside, I have been considering the move to the M&Pc as I have replaced my .40 P2000 with the fullsize M&P 9mm. I feel much more comfortable with the M&P and my accuracy has vastly improved.
I was watching "Monster Garage" where they were modding a Rolls Royce. One mechanic said it was like working on a UFO since it was engineered like no other car made. I thought of the P7 when he said that. After studying the mechanism and stripping the gun a bit, I felt it was from another planet. Simple Browning type actions or 1911s seemed archaic and simplistic in comparision.
If only it would drop the mag when you cycled the squeeze cock when the slide was locked back. That would be a wicked fast reload.
yeah it really is unlike anything else. As if all they had to work with was a small picture of what an automatic pistol was supposed to look like. i appreciate designs that break all tradition and work incredibly well though.
i wonder if that new caracal pistol will replicate P7 ergonomics and bore axis, with a bit more simplicity. :confused: it looks pretty similar, haven't held one yet though....
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-03-10, 19:58
It has been my carry pistol for the last few months. I carried one religiously from about 92-2003 or so. Then I started fooling with P2000s, 1911s, Glocks, etc. After a long time in the wilderness I am back.
The main thing that brought me back is the safety. I have a little girl now and I am much more comfortable with my P7 being accidentally left out than any other gun in my collection. My Glocks, Kahr, etc are all in the safe now.
Frankly, the P7 is easier to carry (for me) than any other compact/mid sized pistol. It is nearly as thin as the Kahr, and slips in the waistband nicely. It can also be carried in the waistband without a holster, and placed under the leg in the car safely. I think the P7 is the ultimate daddy carry gun. LOL.:big_boss:
It has been my carry pistol for the last few months. I carried one religiously from about 92-2003 or so. Then I started fooling with P2000s, 1911s, Glocks, etc. After a long time in the wilderness I am back.
The main thing that brought me back is the safety. I have a little girl now and I am much more comfortable with my P7 being accidentally left out than any other gun in my collection. My Glocks, Kahr, etc are all in the safe now.
Frankly, the P7 is easier to carry (for me) than any other compact/mid sized pistol. It is nearly as thin as the Kahr, and slips in the waistband nicely. It can also be carried in the waistband without a holster, and placed under the leg in the car safely. I think the P7 is the ultimate daddy carry gun. LOL.:big_boss:
You do bring up a good point.....I primarily carried my first P7M8 (I've had two) when I was a young man and worked security in after hours clubs. I figured there was no one besides me who knew how to make it work.
It has been my carry pistol for the last few months. I carried one religiously from about 92-2003 or so. Then I started fooling with P2000s, 1911s, Glocks, etc. After a long time in the wilderness I am back.
The main thing that brought me back is the safety. I have a little girl now and I am much more comfortable with my P7 being accidentally left out than any other gun in my collection. My Glocks, Kahr, etc are all in the safe now.
Frankly, the P7 is easier to carry (for me) than any other compact/mid sized pistol. It is nearly as thin as the Kahr, and slips in the waistband nicely. It can also be carried in the waistband without a holster, and placed under the leg in the car safely. I think the P7 is the ultimate daddy carry gun. LOL.:big_boss:
I guess Kahr is the other sweet 9mm single stack option... It doesn't have nearly the pedigree or service history of the P7 though.
I don't really mind having the G19 snapped into a holster on my nightstand, but the P7 is certainly safer.
It really is a nice carry too. Fits my smart carry as well. quicker than a G26 from that setup thanks to the big grip.
Barry in IN
10-21-10, 15:20
I usually carry a Browning HiPower or a 1911, but a P7 bumps them out often. Sometimes it's the odd times when clothing makes me think I need a slightly smaller/flatter gun for concealment but I'm not forced to a little bitty gun. Other times, it's just because I like it. I shoot it better than anything else, which is probably reason enough to carry it.
I find the squeeze-cocking to be a natural motion. Like automatically swiping my thumb down on the 1911/HiPower safety when the sights get on target, I automatically cock the P7.
Parts breakage. There are only a couple of parts with much history of breakage at all in the P7 (drop safety catch and it's spring, and maybe the firing pin collar on P7 PSPs). Order them when deciding to carry it and you will have them in case you ever need them. HK's CS is legendarily crappy, but just order from HKPartsOnline.
I always try to have at least two of what I'm carrying anyway. I usually carry a P7M8, but I have a PSP as a spare.
Detail stripping/complexity. Take a grip panel off and it looks like it has a thousand parts in it. Take the second one off and it looks like another thousand. But when you are looking at that area, you are looking at most of the parts in the gun. They aren't buried in the frame somewhere like most guns, so I think it looks worse than it is. With the simple locking system and the way the lockwork is arranged, there isn't much going on elsewhere. If I remember right, it only has a few more parts than a 1911 and actually has fewer parts than many guns, like the S&W DA autos.
I don't think detail stripping is that important as in a gun where small lockwork parts are down inside the frame. You can clean it pretty well with a solvent soaked brush or a gunscrubber can.
Heating when shooting. The PSP is worse about this than the P7M8 I carry and therefore shoot the most. With the P7M8, I notice it after maybe five mags and it takes a few more mags to bother me. Call it eight mags before I'd have to give it a cool down when running regular drills, although if I were just emptying mags as fast as I could it would obviously heat up real quick. Before mine gets really hot, I've usually stopped to stuff mags, paste/change targets, etc, so it's no problem. It's never been a problem in a class. At $65 a pop, most P7 owners only own a few mags, so they are stopping to stuff mags often anyway!
The kid-safety of the squeeze cocker was mentioned. Another plus there is being able to pop the striker out in a couple of seconds. When our kids were younger, I carried mine more, and it was nice to pop the striker out and tuck it under my watchband at night. Nobody could get it without me noticing, and while it might cost a couple of seconds installing it, that might allow me to wake up and get my bearings anyway.
If you don't have kids, it might still come in handy. Twice, I've been away from the house when I was called to drop something off with my attorney at the courthouse where guns weren't allowed. I felt a lot better leaving the p7 in the car with it disabled, and I could discreetly pop that striker out and stash the gun. Field stripping another pistol in my lap might have drawn attention.
Are they perfect?
No.
For starters, I think the finish could be better (although the bluing was equal to other guns at the time and I hear newer ones are better), I despise the slide lock, and I wish magazines cost about half what they did. I generally avoid HK products due to their nasty CS in the past, but I've made an exception with the P7.
Every gun has drawbacks and shortcomings. In this case, I think the handling and shooting ease make them worth it.
I carried my P7M8 as a duty gun for about two years. I loved the gun and shot well with it. During training and daily use I found two major issues and retired it. The ambi magazine release kept hitting the seat belt and releasing the magazine when I was in the driver's seat. I developed the habit of checking to make sure the magazine was still there before getting out of the vehicle. Some simply cut off the outside tab of the magazine release to solve this but I could not bring myself to deface the gun.
The second problem arose when performing malfunction drills. Twice I hit the slide disassembly button and popped the slide off the rear of the frame. I thought it was just me but I saw an acquaintance do the same thing during a slide lock reload during an IPSC match. My P7M8 is now a safe queen.
Barry in IN
10-22-10, 07:49
I used to hear about the "self disassembly" thing before I had one. When I got one, I couldn't see how it could be done without some effort.
Then I noticed- The takedown buttons aren't all the same.
Once I realized that, I saw that some have buttons that stick up enough you can hardly miss 'em, and others are shorter and beveled at the rear so you have to work at it. Apparently HK realized the error of their ways at some point and quietly changed them, like the old PSP heel mag catch that got more shielded as time went on.
If I had one with the taller button, I'd either grind it down a little or replace it with a newer one if you are patient ordering from HK.
willowofwisp
10-22-10, 09:34
I would love to carry a p7m8 but the initial cost of the gun and then another 5-6 magazines always deters me.
Barry in IN
10-22-10, 10:54
I always thought they were too high, and never did change that opinion even after getting my first one and becoming a fan.
Used ones can sometimes be found for fairly decent prices, but they are the exception and you have to look a while to find one. I got my P7M8 used for around $800, which was twice what a good used Glock was at the time, but right in the ballpark for some mid-level 1911s. When I looked at it that way, it didn't seem too bad.
The time to try one was a couple of years ago when the ex-German Police P7s were on the market. Many were like new, and selling for way less than I ever thought I'd see P7s running. The ones with worn finish were even less. Since the finish wears quickly, the worn finish didn't necessarily mean the gun was used much.
If a guy was curious about the P7, it was a good chance to try one. Even if they didn't want that particular model because of the Euro heel mag catch and being more prone to heating, it was a good way to try the design out and see if they liked it or not without investing in another more expensive model. If they found they didn't like it, they weren't out so much and as time has shown, those "surplus" P7s trade well and have actually gone up quite a bit since. If they did like it and wanted to upgrade to an M8, again, they trade well and hold (or increase) value.
I bought a few "used" PSP magazines that came in with them, that looked new to me, for $32. Not bad, and not much more than a top-level 1911 mag.
That has always been an expensive magazine, but it is a pretty good magazine too. I still consider all magazines expendable, but P7 mags seem to run a loooong time.
I got to fire one once at a range while we were passsing stuff around. Interesting pistol but the whole different way of gripping was something I found 'weird' With practice I guess you would get used to it, but ifyou switch pistols I think you might have problems. I target shoot and I think it would effect theway I did things. Nice pistol, just not for me
I would love to carry a p7m8 but the initial cost of the gun and then another 5-6 magazines always deters me.
have you considered a PSP?
the heel mag release isn't really that hard to use, plus it's less likely to drop the mag by accident under stress.
also you can pick up a perfectly functional, if slightly rough on the outside C-grade for just over 500 bucks. :)
the mags still cost an f***ing fortune though :mad:
willowofwisp
10-22-10, 13:03
have you considered a PSP?
the heel mag release isn't really that hard to use, plus it's less likely to drop the mag by accident under stress.
also you can pick up a perfectly functional, if slightly rough on the outside C-grade for just over 500 bucks. :)
the mags still cost an f***ing fortune though :mad:
I have handled and shot both a p7 psp and a p7m8 a club member has both along with a p7m13...I don't really like the heel mag release at all and I figured if i spent the money and got a psp i would eventualyl want a p7m8..I found a few m8's around 1200$ which isn't horrible but yea I may try and borrow my friend's m8 for a few weeks and carry it.
I have handled and shot both a p7 psp and a p7m8 a club member has both along with a p7m13...I don't really like the heel mag release at all and I figured if i spent the money and got a psp i would eventualyl want a p7m8..I found a few m8's around 1200$ which isn't horrible but yea I may try and borrow my friend's m8 for a few weeks and carry it.
keep an eye on hkpro.net and parkcitiestactical.com for used P7m8's. sometimes you can pick up an M8 for under a grand.
I'd love an M8 or M13, but at this point in my life i think i'd be better served by a spare PSP. An m13 would be a super fun IPSC gun if somebody else would buy it (and some mags) for me :D
I've been issued a P7M13 for duty carry for the last 13 years and shoot USPSA with it often. Its like cheating. Once you're trained to a confident level, there is no faster gun made, period.
willowofwisp
10-23-10, 10:35
I've been issued a P7M13 for duty carry for the last 13 years and shoot USPSA with it often. Its like cheating. Once you trained to a confident level, there is no faster gun made, period.
Wow I wasn't aware a department here in Michigan issued p7's
I've been issued a P7M13 for duty carry for the last 13 years and shoot USPSA with it often. Its like cheating. Once you trained to a confident level, there is no faster gun made, period.
i was running some holster drills on a 2 second expose time with 1/3 scale IPSC targets on thursday. 15 feet out, made 4 head shots in a row :eek: that's a ~1.5" target.
it's a shame these guns aren't made anymore. I guess there's enough of em out there to keep the cult alive for awhile though. :)
Barry in IN
10-23-10, 18:03
I got to fire one once at a range while we were passsing stuff around. Interesting pistol but the whole different way of gripping was something I found 'weird' With practice I guess you would get used to it, but ifyou switch pistols I think you might have problems. I target shoot and I think it would effect theway I did things. Nice pistol, just not for me
I used to wonder about the different operation, then I got one and found it was no big deal.
I've let several people shoot mine (they draw a crowd) and while some have taken some initial instruction (some think you need to re-squeeze after each shot) they have done well. Most get the hang of it after one mag or maybe two, and some have shot it better than what they owned.
More telling is that some of these same people have shot it again months later, and they do fine from the start. They haven't even seen one since shooting mine. They don't need to re-learn it, and start in like they shot one just yesterday.
I think it's pretty easy and natural to operate. I've gone for months without shooting mine, then take it out and do fine and often shoot it better than what I've been practicing with.
Where I think the P7 is really good is in shooting one-hand or weak-hand. Pick it up, take a firing grip cocking it in the process, and shoot. It's the most ambidextrous pistol I've found, except the slide stop which is equally awful for either hand. Some weak-hand draws from strong side require quite a reach to perform , and it's short length lets it clear the holster easy. If a shooter fumbles and drops it, even if cocked, it uncocks and goes to safe as soon as it leaves the hand.
I've carried it as a weak side BUG. It's a little big for that, but it might be worth doing for it's ease of use there.
I carry a P7 PSP almost every day. Had it refinished in melonite. I love it. Practice with it almost every week. Wife can't figure it out. She's got a TPH, Firestar 9mm, M539 and a Beretta 89; but, the P7 freaks her out.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/minimikeHP2/DSC02075.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m122/minimikeHP2/DSC02071.jpg
SeriousStudent
11-04-10, 21:32
Top Gun Supply has P7 police trade-ins on sale for $500.
http://www.topgunsupply.com/hk-p7-handguns
How many spare mags are you guys carrying, and what are you carrying them in when you're carrying concealed?
Just picked up a P7M8 after fondling a buddies and deciding I just had to have one(It's a heck of a lot thinner than the G19 I've been using to carry concealed).
For reference I'll be carrying IWB with a Milt Sparks VM2
Two, I use DelFatti single pouches, thinking of getting a kydex double pouch.
Don't have a logical explanation why two other than keeping overall number of rounds on me about the same, whether carrying single or double stack.
GermanSynergy
12-01-10, 23:39
One spare mag for my PSP, and carry the pistol in a Blade Tech IWB setup. Very concealable handgun and very accurate.
Mine is a 1983 vintage German police gun. I bought it and had it sent to Cogan APW for hard chrome, installation of Trijicons, action/trigger job and installation of fresh springs.
Sorry about the poor quality pics, my camera took a dump and I'm shopping for a better one as we speak.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/IMG_0175.jpg
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/IMG_0176.jpg
How many spare mags are you guys carrying, and what are you carrying them in when you're carrying concealed?
Just picked up a P7M8 after fondling a buddies and deciding I just had to have one(It's a heck of a lot thinner than the G19 I've been using to carry concealed).
For reference I'll be carrying IWB with a Milt Sparks VM2
I'm still at it with the p7. Definitely my favorite carry gun.
I like how precise my first shot, cold, out of the holster tends to be.
I just carry one spare mag. if i had a third mag i might carry it. anybody wanna donate a third mag to a starving engineering student? :confused:
Barry in IN
12-02-10, 06:46
I carry two spare mags when carrying mine.
I either use two Comp-Tac single pouches, or if lazy, I'll use my Horseshoe Leather double mag pouch for 1911 mags (it has spring tension fingers that fill in the gap caused by the smaller mags).
If you have trouble finding a P7-specific mag pouch or are a starving engineering student like skyugo or just scrounge through gunshops' cardboard trade-in boxes like I always do, you might find that sometimes (that's sometimes) mag pouches marked for the S&W 39 will fit.
I would think the same could be said for the Sig P225/P239 pouches but have never tried it.
Copes Distributing P7 mag pouches $2.99 (http://www.copesdistributing.net/product_info.php?products_id=1040)
Copes Distributing P7 mag pouches $2.99 (http://www.copesdistributing.net/product_info.php?products_id=1040)
Those actually might be perfect for what I need. Thanks.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-02-10, 14:38
I have a Raven single mag pouch that I put the edge tips on to grip inside a pocket. Use it in my spare back pocket.
I bought a PSP, a P7M8, and M13 back in the 80's and carried them off duty for a while. Maybe just my lack of coordination, or maybe because I was carrying a traditional double action on duty, but I was always overly paranoid of having an AD/UD with them. I still have them, and they're great guns though.
I bought a PSP, a P7M8, and M13 back in the 80's and carried them off duty for a while. Maybe just my lack of coordination, or maybe because I was carrying a traditional double action on duty, but I was always overly paranoid of having an AD/UD with them. I still have them, and they're great guns though.
hmm..
granted i'm used to glock, but the p7 seems like the safest gun out in my opinion. unless you pick it up, and give it a firm squeeze, and hold the cocking lever down, it's a paperweight. I could see where maybe it could make someone too comfortable having such a decisive safety though...
muzzle is still muzzle.
hmm..
granted i'm used to glock, but the p7 seems like the safest gun out in my opinion. unless you pick it up, and give it a firm squeeze, and hold the cocking lever down, it's a paperweight. I could see where maybe it could make someone too comfortable having such a decisive safety though...
muzzle is still muzzle.
Carrying other guns at the same time, I was concerned about automatically grabbing the gun in a firm grip under stress, as I would with my other guns.
I'm sure it was just my lack of training with that system, but even today, I doubt I'd go back and forth between a P7 and another gun.
Barry in IN
12-02-10, 20:48
Carrying other guns at the same time, I was concerned about automatically grabbing the gun in a firm grip under stress, as I would with my other guns.
I'm sure it was just my lack of training with that system, but even today, I doubt I'd go back and forth between a P7 and another gun.
You aren't alone, because I hear this a lot when the P7 comes up. I just don't know why it should be any different with this gun.
You still have to pull the trigger.
Pick up a Glock (or M&P, or XD, or P99, or...) and pull the trigger, they will go bang too, firm grip or not (with the possible exception of the XD).
And it won't be the gun's fault.
You aren't alone, because I hear this a lot when the P7 comes up. I just don't know why it should be any different with this gun.
You still have to pull the trigger.
Pick up a Glock (or M&P, or XD, or P99, or...) and pull the trigger, they will go bang too, firm grip or not (with the possible exception of the XD).
And it won't be the gun's fault.
You could say the same about a 1911 too, but nobody would clear a room with the safety off.
I ordered a late generation PSP in the late 90's; it was a great gun, and superbly accurate, but at the end of the day, it had several key things against it: 1) even in a Kramer IWB holster, it just felt weird when carrying, due to it's unique weight distribution; 2) the total uniqueness of the squeeze-cocker manual of arms really meant that if I was going to carry a P7, it pretty much had to be an exclusive gun for me, which I wasn't willing to do; 3) Although I had enough (because I ordered them with the gun), magazines were ridiculously expensive, and often apparently made of unobtanium; 4) In my comparison of my German Polizi guns of the 1970's, my preference was far towards my P225, then to my Walther P5, and only then to the P7 PSP. I found the P225 to be just as accurate, and was much more comfortable with it, both carry and shooting-wise.
The excess heat issue has already been commented on, but it certainly wasn't a carry issue, and when I used mine in steel plate competitions, the round cound for each heat was sufficiently low that overheating wasn't an issue.
At the end of the day, I sold it to a friend who wanted if more than I did. He still enjoys it, and competed sucessfully with it, and while I still have my P225 (the Walther P5 was eventually also sold), I usually carry a Glock.
Best, Jon
I ordered a late generation PSP in the late 90's; it was a great gun, and superbly accurate, but at the end of the day, it had several key things against it: 1) even in a Kramer IWB holster, it just felt weird when carrying, due to it's unique weight distribution; 2) the total uniqueness of the squeeze-cocker manual of arms really meant that if I was going to carry a P7, it pretty much had to be an exclusive gun for me, which I wasn't willing to do; 3) Although I had enough (because I ordered them with the gun), magazines were ridiculously expensive, and often apparently made of unobtanium; 4) In my comparison of my German Polizi guns of the 1970's, my preference was far towards my P225, then to my Walther P5, and only then to the P7 PSP. I found the P225 to be just as accurate, and was much more comfortable with it, both carry and shooting-wise.
The excess heat issue has already been commented on, but it certainly wasn't a carry issue, and when I used mine in steel plate competitions, the round cound for each heat was sufficiently low that overheating wasn't an issue.
At the end of the day, I sold it to a friend who wanted if more than I did. He still enjoys it, and competed sucessfully with it, and while I still have my P225 (the Walther P5 was eventually also sold), I usually carry a Glock.
Best, Jon
I ended up buying all the West German PD guns too, PSP, P1, P6, etc., when they were dirt cheap. They all have their idiosyncrasies, but the common theme was they all shot accurately and functioned flawlessly (at least with ball ammo). The 225 is my favorite of that group as well. Mine shoots like a match gun. I still carry it once in a while.
anybody wanna donate a third mag to a starving engineering student? :confused:
A pair of after market PSP mags in route to you. Good luck in school!
Barry in IN
12-04-10, 09:57
You could say the same about a 1911 too, but nobody would clear a room with the safety off.
You don't think so?
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-04-10, 14:23
Let me second the earlier comments about the durability of P7 mags. I still use the mags, with original springs, from the gun I bought in 1992. These mags have north of 20k each at the very least (absolute minimum). The have been refinished twice, and the baseplates look like the surface of the moon--but they run perfectly.
I have a M13, M8 and two PSP's but use one of the PSP's for my carry gun. I was fortunate enough to stock up on mags for all of them when you could get the factory mags at $20 to $30 a pop and those suckers do last. Not too sure about the aftermarket ones as all mine are factory and on another note I have never had an issue transitioning from any other pistol to a P7. To me it's just a non-issue as I maintain a very tight grip on whatever I happen to be carrying that day and the same goes for the "heel" mag release.
You don't think so?
Well, maybe I misspoke. I'm sure many would and do clear a house with the safety off on a 1911, but that's not how I was trained.
A pair of after market PSP mags in route to you. Good luck in school!
some good people we have on this forum.
thank you sir :)
Here's a question, kind of in the vein of clearing a house with the safety off on a 1911 vs with a glock.
The glock isn't fully cocked, and the firing pin safety is on when your finger isn't on the trigger. with a p7, when does the firing pin safety come off? when you squeeze it?
granted the trigger is very light on a p7, but cocking it before firing is a very fast natural motion.
I would like to hear from some guys who've used P7's either in police work or serious training in regard to when they cock and decock.
Here's a question, kind of in the vein of clearing a house with the safety off on a 1911 vs with a glock.
The glock isn't fully cocked, and the firing pin safety is on when your finger isn't on the trigger. with a p7, when does the firing pin safety come off? when you squeeze it?
granted the trigger is very light on a p7, but cocking it before firing is a very fast natural motion.
I would like to hear from some guys who've used P7's either in police work or serious training in regard to when they cock and decock.
When I started carrying mine, I had already been carrying other guns for more than 15 years, and I was used to taking a death grip on it under stress. As JonInWA said, I think the P7 should be an exclusive gun.
willowofwisp
12-04-10, 22:23
Here's a question, kind of in the vein of clearing a house with the safety off on a 1911 vs with a glock.
The glock isn't fully cocked, and the firing pin safety is on when your finger isn't on the trigger. with a p7, when does the firing pin safety come off? when you squeeze it?
granted the trigger is very light on a p7, but cocking it before firing is a very fast natural motion.
I would like to hear from some guys who've used P7's either in police work or serious training in regard to when they cock and decock.
Hey pm 700M1 as he used to or possibly still does carry a p7m8 on duty, it was mentioend earlier in this thread i believe
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-05-10, 05:32
There is no need to cock the weapon until you are ready to fire. However, if you do, it is a simple matter to decock the gun silently. There is a tiny latch under the trigger guard where the cocking lever mates up to it. Simply use the index finder on your support hand to depress it while the cocking lever is allowed to move forward. No big deal.
eternal24k
12-05-10, 09:57
A pair of after market PSP mags in route to you. Good luck in school!
who makes aftermarket PSP mags?
Army Chief
12-05-10, 10:16
... it is a simple matter to decock the gun silently. There is a tiny latch under the trigger guard where the cocking lever mates up to it. Simply use the index finder on your support hand to depress it while the cocking lever is allowed to move forward.
I would probably call that a "relatively" silent means of de-cocking, rather than a completely inaudible technique, but it is definitely one of those things that every P7 owner should know how to do.
AC
There is no need to cock the weapon until you are ready to fire. However, if you do, it is a simple matter to decock the gun silently. There is a tiny latch under the trigger guard where the cocking lever mates up to it. Simply use the index finder on your support hand to depress it while the cocking lever is allowed to move forward. No big deal.
The only issue is overcoming years of training, practice, muscle memory, and actual use in the field, that has you gripping the gun tight enough to leave finger grooves on the grip. Easy on the range....a little tougher under stress.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-05-10, 18:27
Well, it is a useful technique to keep in the toolbox. It is inaudible if done carefully. And even if done sloppily there is less sound than the safety coming off a 1911. And 1000 times quieter than shooting yourself in the foot with a Glock while under stress in the field.:laugh:
And 1000 times quieter than shooting yourself in the foot with a Glock while under stress in the field.:laugh:
Now no one's ever done that, have they?
;)
Now no one's ever done that, have they?
;)
Oh, I can tell you a story or two........:eek:
While certainly not denying that there have been NDs with a Glock, there's a world of a difference in simply removing one's finger from the trigger of a Glock as opposed to having to locate a fiddly small part to effect a silent (relatively) decock with a P7-then throw gloves into the equation, and things get even more interesting.
And then there's the factor of the seamless, extraordinarily light, short triggerpull distance P7 trigger...
While not denying the efficacy of the P7, there are some cogent reasons to prefer a Glock over and beyond it's light weight.
Best, Jon
While certainly not denying that there have been NDs with a Glock, there's a world of a difference in simply removing one's finger from the trigger of a Glock as opposed to having to locate a fiddly small part to effect a silent (relatively) decock with a P7-then throw gloves into the equation, and things get even more interesting.
And then there's the factor of the seamless, extraordinarily light, short triggerpull distance P7 trigger...
While not denying the efficacy of the P7, there are some cogent reasons to prefer a Glock over and beyond it's light weight.
Best, Jon
i like glock too. i won't be removing glock from my toolbox anytime soon.
it does require different handling than a p7 though. the bottom line handling either pistol means finger off the trigger.
I've carried an M13 (or an M8 if dress requires or it's hot and I'm feeling lazy) for almost 10 years. I've tried several times to make a transition over to a Glock 19 only to come back to a squeezecocker in short order. Parts are becoming scarce but I've been hoarding them for years so I hope I have enough to last a lifetime. When training and encountering higher volumes of fire, I wear mechanics gloves and bring more than one M13 and swap back and forth. I could go on and on about why I like these pistols. They're not perfect and definitely not for everybody. In my experience, they've been reliable and fairly robust. Don't be too scared about detail stripping one if you need to......they aren't made of sugar and there's several sources with pictures that can walk you through it. The only thing I wouldn't do is pull a barrel.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-06-10, 19:03
Raydoctor knows his P7s.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-06-10, 22:00
Here's a question, kind of in the vein of clearing a house with the safety off on a 1911 vs with a glock.
The glock isn't fully cocked, and the firing pin safety is on when your finger isn't on the trigger. with a p7, when does the firing pin safety come off? when you squeeze it?
granted the trigger is very light on a p7, but cocking it before firing is a very fast natural motion.
I would like to hear from some guys who've used P7's either in police work or serious training in regard to when they cock and decock.
That's why I like my P7 for CCW. Nothing to snag, nothing to do but pull the trigger- but unlike all the other striker fired guns out there, you can use the thing like a hammer, snag your shirt while holstering and a few other bozo-no-no's with out a ND.
I practice with the heel mag release, but I'd almost be better off pulling my knife at that stage. I carry an extra mag just to be able to reload if there is a lull.
That's why I like my P7 for CCW. Nothing to snag, nothing to do but pull the trigger- but unlike all the other striker fired guns out there, you can use the thing like a hammer, snag your shirt while holstering and a few other bozo-no-no's with out a ND.
I practice with the heel mag release, but I'd almost be better off pulling my knife at that stage. I carry an extra mag just to be able to reload if there is a lull.
I dont' find the heel mag release too terrible. probably adds close to a second to my reloads though. The fact that an accidental mag release is almost impossible is nice. Reloads a hell of a lot faster than a J-frame or something too.
I've love an M8, but i need a big boy job before that's gonna happen :(
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-07-10, 18:27
Although I have always preferred the M8, I think the P7 (psp) may be the best CC weapon ever. Most of the downsides have little to do with practical reality. The fact is that most non leo/military will carry our handguns a lifetime without shooting them in anger (or fear). You are, frankly, much more likely to shoot a hole in your foot or wall with a gun while handling them day-to-day.
The P7 is, IMHO, the safest autoloading handgun around (presuming you carry with a round in the chamber). The gun is impossible to ND unless you have depressed the cocking lever. And after that it is basically the equivalent of any DA/SA or SA handgun in SA mode. This puts you way out ahead of Glocks, M&Ps, LEMS and other "safe action" derivatives in real-world daily carry.
I am not totally discounting the need for quick reloads, but the later style P7 with recessed heel release does give you the benefit of a gun that will basically never dump its mag by accident. This is probably a bigger practical benefit than the ability to game with the gun. Again, I am talking about a regular guy who carries for personal defense, not a SWAT/Delta guy.
To me, the P7's only real-world drawback is the weight. It is a heavy gun. It is too bad they never figured out a way to cut the weight.
Probably only old guys like me remember that one of the first World IPSC matches was won with a heel clip release gun, against masters like Ray Chapman with 1911's.
My first Sig Sauer was a Browning BDA .45 with a heel clip release, and it would surprise most just how fast you can be with one if you practice.
My daily is an M13. I agree with most here. A lot of benefits, although, I sorta disagree a little bit with hoplo about buger eaters and competition. I think it didn't get used in those applications because of complexity and price compared to 1911. It's a ton more expensive to setup for competition. Not nearly as available and it's tough to modify. On the other hand Bruce Gray did build some pretty good lomngslide competition p7s. As for buger eaters, how many p7s are really floating around in LE, Mil, or independents?
But I agree, it's heavy. I'm about split though for speed. Reloads are faster for me on the m13. I've trained and carried both a lot.
For off body carry though, you can't beat the p7. I often keep my p7 in a maxpedition attaché as a backup.
I am fine with weight, I view it as a trade-off for being extremely soft-shooting pistol, but that heat...
I took mine to range yesterday, 92 rounds total, about half were very-very slow bullseye shooting, and half - fast pairs at multiple target. Started feeling that heat despite wearing gloves - not uncomforable but appreciable. Without gloves would've been painful.
Although I have always preferred the M8, I think the P7 (psp) may be the best CC weapon ever. Most of the downsides have little to do with practical reality. The fact is that most non leo/military will carry our handguns a lifetime without shooting them in anger (or fear). You are, frankly, much more likely to shoot a hole in your foot or wall with a gun while handling them day-to-day.
The P7 is, IMHO, the safest autoloading handgun around (presuming you carry with a round in the chamber). The gun is impossible to ND unless you have depressed the cocking lever. And after that it is basically the equivalent of any DA/SA or SA handgun in SA mode. This puts you way out ahead of Glocks, M&Ps, LEMS and other "safe action" derivatives in real-world daily carry.
I am not totally discounting the need for quick reloads, but the later style P7 with recessed heel release does give you the benefit of a gun that will basically never dump its mag by accident. This is probably a bigger practical benefit than the ability to game with the gun. Again, I am talking about a regular guy who carries for personal defense, not a SWAT/Delta guy.
To me, the P7's only real-world drawback is the weight. It is a heavy gun. It is too bad they never figured out a way to cut the weight.
I'm gonna have to run some shot timer drills with the p7 vs the glock 19 in reload speed. as many of you know i pocket carry my mags. as some of you know i'm pretty damn quick with that setup too. ;)
it is a heavy gun, but i really like how thin it is. I carry in a neutral minotaur, and really it's comfortable. only gripe with the minotaur is the sweatshield doesn't cover the entire slide :mad: if anyone has an idea to fix this, i'd love to hear it.
I am fine with weight, I view it as a trade-off for being extremely soft-shooting pistol, but that heat...
I took mine to range yesterday, 92 rounds total, about half were very-very slow bullseye shooting, and half - fast pairs at multiple target. Started feeling that heat despite wearing gloves - not uncomforable but appreciable. Without gloves would've been painful.
wrap it in a wet paper towel while you load mags.
alternatley (or additionally) field strip it while reloading and changing targets. It cools off a lot faster when it's stripped.
alternatley (or additionally) field strip it while reloading and changing targets. .
Neither takes me much time. Once it's hot, it is hot. The reality is that overheating is a drawback that one has to accept. Waiting for cooling etc. is not efficient use of my time. With P7 I always use gloves, generally spend most practice time on slow accuracy drills and confine my practice session to 100 rounds or so.
SpartanDCI
12-09-10, 12:30
I carried an Arlington, VA marked P7 Export model with the later version heel mag release that fits the contour of the frame.
My duty weapon was a Stainless steel Ruger .357 Speed Six and we were not allowed semi's.......yeah I'm old.
I carried the P7 as my back up gun and on my CCW permit off duty, even though I was never off duty according to the regs.
I loved that P7 for compactness and accuracy. Like has been said...it heated up like hades since the older PS did not have the insulated trigger or trigger guard. The slide did end up turning purple after a couple thousand rounds of Federal 9BP +P ammo, but it was a great pistol. A couple of drinking buddys at the Secret Service and FBI carried P7's in the Washington, DC area.........and when we got together at out Old Town Alexandria, VA watering hole, we always checked out what was in the waistbands........three of us carried P7's and a DEA bud carried a Smith & Wesson 639 cut down into an ASP.......we never really like him anyway!
While working with a SEAL Team in Virginia, I saw a test model P7 with stainless steel silencer. I never fired it, but always lusted after it. The matte stainless steel finished silencer when matched with the dark P7 looked like pure Jame Bond sexiness.
If you carried one, you had to be wary of handling rules with it.......I did see a Michigan area H&K Salesman ND one when he squeezed the cocking handle with the trigger depressed.......big mistake! It was handy and compact for an all steel pistol. Thin slide and real sleek compared to a Glock 19!
I preferred the P7 PSP to the P7M13, and I got to fire the M13 a lot since I worked on the DC Homicide/Crack Task Force in the 1980s with the US Park Police.......M13 was too heavy for what you got. If I wanted/needed that many rounds I would carry my Glock 19 or Browning High Power.
It was and still is a great gun made with precision and skill. Thinking about it, I may try and get a nice Grade B German trade in from Gordon Miller.
Neither takes me much time. Once it's hot, it is hot. The reality is that overheating is a drawback that one has to accept. Waiting for cooling etc. is not efficient use of my time. With P7 I always use gloves, generally spend most practice time on slow accuracy drills and confine my practice session to 100 rounds or so.
I have no problem getting 150-200 rounds off in an hour using the paper towel method. Though using the "michael jackson" method, with a mechanic's glove on my right hand works too.
I carried a P7m8 as a uniformed officer years ago. I then switched to a USP 45 when they came out (what a craptaculor DA trigger that had). I still have the P7m8.
My wife shoots it very well and it's a keeper. I am just attached to it for some unexplained reason. It is accurate and feels great in my hands. I have never had a malfunction with it. I do need to start getting some spare parts.
I guess a Glock 19 does make more practical sense. I don't feel under gunned with 8 rounds of quality bonded 9mm. In an era of polymer, it is kind of a throw back to the times of old skool gun engineering. It's like having a self winding mechanical watch versus a quartz.
Bottom line, I let my wife depend on it to defend herself and I trust it completely. She preferred it over a Glock 19. She just liked the way it felt in her hands and was more accurate with it. She had no problems adjusting to the squeeze cocking mechanism. The only problem she had was manipulating the slide. It took her some practice and if she couldn't do it, she wouldn't be using it.
Yep they are expensive. I remember them being expensive when I bought it. When you look at the amount of work that goes into a P7 series pistol, I understand why HK dropped it.
I carry a HK P7 PSP, but not regularly. It's more of a gun I carry while dressed up, a BBQ gun then an EDC. Oh I carry it from time to time for CCW.
I carry my GLOCK 22, 27 or 17 more. I carry my SIG P220 or P225 alot, I don't seam to have a problem going from one to the other. I shoot and train ofter. I have shot some matches with them all and I seam to be able to go from one to the other with no problems.
I love my HK P7 PSP, and it fits my hand well. I wist that HK still made them and they didn't cost an arm and a leg. It is one of the few HK's that I ever really wanted. Don't get me wrong they make good stuff, but none really grabed me like the P7.
I think that they are great carry guns, thin, compact and safe.
AR-n-Ky
I've been edcing a P7M10 for quite some time and i do love my PSP quite a bit.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t161/anubismp/holsp7.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t161/anubismp/P7sterile.jpg
For me the P7 series gives everything you want in a pistol. the psp is pocket size and very accurate. The M10 is superheavy but target grade and pumps out 40 like it was 9mm. Are there other pistols out there that can serve the same purpose? Sure but nothing is quite like them.
Yep they are expensive. I remember them being expensive when I bought it. When you look at the amount of work that goes into a P7 series pistol, I understand why HK dropped it.
Yeah, it's another one of those guns that guys think have gone up so much, when really, they were pretty darn expensive when they were first sold.
I picked up another M13 this week, brand new barrel and just back from Robar for the NP3+ treatment. Loaded that baby with Ranger 127 +P+ and I'm good to go ! Now to decide if I just send it to Tooltech to have the sites tapped out for tritium inserts or just install new sites myself. Decisions, decisions !!
I carry a P7psp most of the time around 60% (p30 on the other days).
I chose the p7 because
1. Like Greg I believe it's the safest pistol on the market today and I have 3 kids under 6.
2. It's the easiest and fastest for me to aim on draw. For me it's literally been as easy as pointing a finger at the target.
3. It conceals incredibly well. In summer months I wear this 90% of the time. It's concealed under a black or grey Hanes t-shirt while wearing shorts.
I carry mine in a Del Fatti ISP-4 which he designed with the P7 in mind. If you're interested or need a holster for this gun I strongly recommend it. As of yesterday Lightening Arms Sports had Del Fatti ISP-4s in stock in dark brown and cordovan.
hit 6 out of 10 in 5.83 seconds on a triple nickel drill the other night with my psp. (yes, with a reload)
I think i might sell my G26 and buy another one. hands down my favorite carry gun.
I've carried my P7M8 as my on duty backup (set up for weak hand access on my vest), and as my off duty EDC gun. I shoot it probably two or three times a year, yet I still shoot it as well as my duty pistol. The combination of natural pointing, superb mechanical accuracy, and wonderful trigger make it a shooter. I keep meaning to send mine off to get it either Roguard'ed or NP3'd, it just never happened. I got lucky and picked up a couple of mags for good prices from folks that had no clue what they were normally going for.
I've never run into any problems with the squeeze cocker aspect of it. I love that on the M8 you can utilize the magazine as a secondary projectile weapon when you eject them. As noted the mags are very sturdy, mine have survived a lot of drops on concrete and are still going strong.
Off duty I carry it in a Comp Tac CTAC, and use a 1911 mag holder for my spare mag. When I retire in a couple of decades I figure my P7 will still be on my vest, and will probably become my full time carry piece.
-Jenrick
I've carried my P7M8 as my on duty backup (set up for weak hand access on my vest), and as my off duty EDC gun. I shoot it probably two or three times a year, yet I still shoot it as well as my duty pistol. The combination of natural pointing, superb mechanical accuracy, and wonderful trigger make it a shooter. I keep meaning to send mine off to get it either Roguard'ed or NP3'd, it just never happened. I got lucky and picked up a couple of mags for good prices from folks that had no clue what they were normally going for.
I've never run into any problems with the squeeze cocker aspect of it. I love that on the M8 you can utilize the magazine as a secondary projectile weapon when you eject them. As noted the mags are very sturdy, mine have survived a lot of drops on concrete and are still going strong.
Off duty I carry it in a Comp Tac CTAC, and use a 1911 mag holder for my spare mag. When I retire in a couple of decades I figure my P7 will still be on my vest, and will probably become my full time carry piece.
-Jenrick
it really is a remarkably easy gun to just pick up and shoot.
i started carrying it after just a few range trips. people always says stuff like "you better dedicate all your training to it" etc... but mostly these people haven't spent any time with one.
it's basically gesture at the target and squeeze. :o
it really is a remarkably easy gun to just pick up and shoot.
i started carrying it after just a few range trips. people always says stuff like "you better dedicate all your training to it" etc... but mostly these people haven't spent any time with one.
Actually, I've owned and shot them for the better part of 30 years, and other extremely qualified trainers that I knew, shared the opinion that the P7 system was one best used exclusively.
YMMV, but I don't believe you can assume, that those who have a different perspective than you, do so out of ignorance, or lack of experience.
Actually, I've owned and shot them for the better part of 30 years, and other extremely qualified trainers that I knew, shared the opinion that the P7 system was one best used exclusively.
YMMV, but I don't believe you can assume, that those who have a different perspective than you, do so out of ignorance, or lack of experience.
Really any gun is better if used exclusively. I'd be more wary of occasionally carrying a gun with a thumb safety than a grip safety.
but again, just my opinion.
Really any gun is better if used exclusively. I'd be more wary of occasionally carrying a gun with a thumb safety than a grip safety.
but again, just my opinion.
The P7 isn't a grip safety, it's a squeeze cocker, unlike any other weapon, but your point is well taken.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.