View Full Version : So... I think I'm going for a Colt LE6920... good choice?
I've gotten some input from a few folks whose opinions I respect and it seems that the Colt LE 6920 would make a solid choice for a first time AR buyer.
Any final thoughts before I go forward with this choice?
I don't plan on doing a bunch of mods... I just want to have a good, solid AR platform among my various firearms tools for defense purposes. I know there are less costly options that would be good choices as well, but I like the idea of having a Colt and don't mind spending a bit more to have that. My needs are just basic home defense... Something good to compliment my 12 gauge shotguns.
Your thoughts to move forward with this, or...?
There are many good options out there. This is probably at the top. Decide what you need, how much you can afford and don't forget that you will also need magazines and ammo.
I would, in fact I have. After owning a LMT for 3-4 years I finally got a Colt 6920 and couldn't be more satisfied. I passed the LMT to my wife (who has now sold it), so yes, it is one of the top choices to be had. Check out the chart if you have not already done so, the Colt is at the top for a reason. There are, of course, other excellent choices but if you want a Colt and a couple hundred $$ difference doesn't matter to you then get one and sleep well.
If you want a barebones stock Ar-15 go with the colt 6920, if you want rails and extra stuff get an Ar-15 that already has that stuff on it (ie BCM, Noveske, and or Daniel Defense). Accessories start to add up after awhile, happy hunting :cool:
It's a fine rifle and you can't get anything more solid or reliable, period. I do think you can get more for your money from BCM or DD, every bit as good with more options(i.e. midlength) and more for your money. But a Colt is a Colt and you really can't go wrong with a 6920. DD XVM's for ~$1050 or VX V3's for $1150 are something else to look at. I'm going through the same process as you and from the research I have been doing I am leaning strongly towards the DD's with $1200 being the cheapest I can find a new Colt plus I am really liking what I have been seeing with midlengths.
Here are some other good options. I feel the specs are every bit as good. You also get some extras like a rail and foregrip.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=193736442
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=193787341
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=193277537
You can also get a complete Bravo Company M4 for around the same as those above.
Just remember that once you start to add things like rails the cost will go up on a 6920.
I personally think that you should have a sling and light at a minimum for a good self defense carbine.
SWATcop556
10-03-10, 06:14
I personally think that you should have a sling and light at a minimum for a good self defense carbine.
Completely agree. You have to be able to see and ID your target as a threat before you pull the trigger so a light is mandatory IMO. There are many good quality lights and mounts out there for very little money. The RDS is also a huge benefit. Yes you can handle business with irons and people have done so for years with great success. I am of the school of thought that I can put 2-4 well placed rounds on target in a vital area with irons and a light where the same shooting with a RDS I can put 5-8 rounds in the same area in the same amount of time. More holes are more holes. The RDS just makes you more affective in a fight.
And the 6920 is an excellent rifle. I've had a bone stock one for many years. It's not my go-to gun but it is one of the best choices out there. For what you stated your desired needs are it should do nicely.
6920 will serve you well. If you add MOE hand guards, light mount, and Surefire light you will be all set! You should be able to add these for around $100 or so. Makes for a nice little homestead defense device.
The Colt LE6920 is the Gold Standard.
Can't go wrong with the pony.
Yes the Colt 6920 is a great carbine . I have 2, one with all the bells and whistles and one just the way I got it from Colt ( the truck gun). Never have had a single issue with any of the Colts that I have .
I am still pleasantly surprised every time I shoot my 6920, despite having two Noveskes and a BCM. All are great, you cannot go wrong with any of them really.
SeaSoldier
10-03-10, 09:43
Colt 6920 is the way I went as well. It was my first AR and did not really do my homework before the purchase. It's a great and the Gold Standard as said before. Knowing what I do now though, I would have gotten a BCM middy. Absolutely nothing against the Colt.
missumbigtime
10-03-10, 09:52
Excellent choice.
Beat Trash
10-03-10, 10:59
You'll find many people will tell you of options that exist which are as good as the Colt 6920. BCM and Daniel Defense come to mind.
It would be hard for anyone to say the Colt is a bad choice though, because it's not.
I set up myself and my family members with AR's a few years ago, when BCM and DD guns weren't options. Bought my newest AR in 2006.
I went with all Colt 6920's. Even with the current options available, I see no need to trade these guns for anything else.
Good to hear... Thanks for all the replies. I totally agree on the light. My go to shotguns have lights and I'd want one on the M4 as well. So now I have to figure out the light thing and while irons will do me perfectly well for HD, I am interested in finding out what might be good for longer range stuff. I don't want to go whole hog with stuff hanging off the gun all over the place... I really want to keep it simple like my shotguns are.
Reliability is absolutely paramount to me and I have a sense that nothing else will be more reliable than the Colt, though other options can save a little money. Would the DD or BCM be every bit as reliable as the Colt? Would either be a smarter choice aside from saving a little money?
Failure2Stop
10-03-10, 11:29
If you are going to get a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel with a carbing length gas system, the 6920 or 6921 are the standard all others are judged against. You might find examples of nearly equal or arguably equal functionality, but when it comes to a fighting carbine, you will not find one that can be called uncontestedly superior.
The 6920 is an excellent choice for a first AR, unless you want to get into the mid-length game.
ElGuapoK20
10-03-10, 11:42
Get something that will fit in your budget, plase don't just listen to the colt nutswingers and fanboys and mak your decision based on the purpose of the rifle, what will come with it, what you want to eventually do with it how many rounds a year, and also your budget.
familyman357
10-03-10, 11:52
...... I don't plan on doing a bunch of mods... I just want to have a good, solid AR platform among my various firearms tools for defense purposes. I know there are less costly options that would be good choices as well, but I like the idea of having a Colt and don't mind spending a bit more to have that. My needs are just basic home defense... Something good to compliment my 12 gauge shotguns. ......
It sounds like the 6920 is perfect for your requirements/preferences.
I went with the 6940, but I'd be almost as happy with the 6920.
Yes, there are other decent options out there too, but you won't go wrong with the 6920.
Get something that will fit in your budget, plase don't just listen to the colt nutswingers and fanboys and mak your decision based on the purpose of the rifle, what will come with it, what you want to eventually do with it how many rounds a year, and also your budget.
With such an intelligent, concise, well reasoned, and above all else polite response, why would anyone ever be inclined to ignore your advice?
:sarcastic:
DHart, if you have little to no AR experience, starting out with a Colt 6920 is the "A" answer. Some folks like rails, some folks like longer gas systems, some folks like this or that, but starting with the 6920 and learning to run it and finding where it is lacking FOR YOU is the best possible road. Establish what YOU don't like about the gun. For example, the one thing I do on every AR I'm expected to shoot regardless of make is ditch the A2 grip if so equipped. I can deal with just about any other grip on the market, but after a few hundred rounds the A2 will kill my hand. How do I know this? Hundreds, if not thousands, of rounds on A2 gripped guns.
Get the 6920 and put a sling on it. Blue Force Gear Vickers, Viking Tactics, or Boonie Packer two-point adjustable slings are all good starting points. I wouldn't even bother with a light until you get some training on the basic gun and learn to run it. A light is a requirement for a defensive arm, but an arm you don't know how to use is not a defensive arm anyway.
You might take a look at the Rock River Arms AR15 on sale. I'm delighted with mine. It's loaded with extra's without the extra cost.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=463
Fourbits
kaiservontexas
10-03-10, 12:38
If you want a barebones stock Ar-15 go with the colt 6920, if you want rails and extra stuff get an Ar-15 that already has that stuff on it (ie BCM, Noveske, and or Daniel Defense). Accessories start to add up after awhile, happy hunting :cool:
This ^ unless you got the money to spend and want a project, which in that case buy the Colt and have fun changing it up to the way you desire.
Here's the problem.
If you don't have much experience with the AR, how do you know what you want? Or, more to the point, need. If we're strictly on wants and the gun serves no other purpose than picture-posting on the internet then I agree with you, you're better off buying all the impressive shit right out of the gate. But if this is a skillset project and not an aesthetic project them IMHO you start with the basic, functional product and go from there.
I think that most people would be fall-down shocked if they really spent some time with a stock M4, learned to run it, and saw how capable it really is.
I'll equate this to my own recent vehicle purchase, a Toyota Tacoma. Before I got it I had all these ideas about what it "needed". A new head unit, speakers, and subwoofer, a lift, bigger tires and wheels, seat covers (or leather seats), step tubes, etc. Know what my first project has been? Ripping the storage bit out from behind the back seats to carry more stuff there, and in turn sound-deadening the vehicle. Neither of these projects had even entered my mind before I owned the truck. Now I have no intention of changing the wheels/tires until the ones on it fall off, have $800 worth of stereo equipment sitting in my office that I'm not sure if I want to bother installing or sell, took the step tubes that came on the truck off of it in the first weekend... My big splurge may be an alarm simply to get the remote start so the A/C will be on when I get in during the summer. I had a huge list of "wants" before I bought it, but now that I have it I know my "needs" and am very glad I didn't sink (too much) money into shit that I'm perfectly happy without simply because of pictures I saw on the interweb of Tacomas.
kaiservontexas
10-03-10, 12:48
Rob good point. I like mid-length over carbine length for the real estate. I would not know that without shooting the carbine; so, very good point.
If you are going to get a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel with a carbing length gas system, the 6920 or 6921 are the standard all others are judged against. You might find examples of nearly equal or arguably equal functionality, but when it comes to a fighting carbine, you will not find one that can be called uncontestedly superior.
The 6920 is an excellent choice for a first AR, unless you want to get into the mid-length game.This is my opinion also.
The good news, too, is that there is little to nothing (in terms of handling) that can't be overcome in the carbine-length gas. Decide you want a longer rail? No problem, chop the FSB and install one. Obviously some people prefer the perceived reduced recoil impulse of the mid-length gas system (something I hope to be able to quantify shortly) but there is also some thought now that the carbine-length may be more reliable in the long run due to the harsher impulse being better able to overcome accumulated filth.
In short, for a new shooter that needs time to build up a set of wants and needs, I don't find the 6920 lacking in any way. If asked, I'd probably suggest the 6720 with .625" barrel from Clyde (https://policeguns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=16_236&products_id=6615&osCsid=38a20thehkngqu3h30ktmkhf96), but that's an incremental change at most. I think that reduced weight with a more logical barrel profile is something that virtually everyone can agree on, but don't think that very many people would notice the difference, blindfolded, without some experience. If someone asked me today "what should I buy" my answer would be "Colt 6720 and a Magpul MOE grip" just because I hate the A2 that much. :D
(for learning irons I'd probably recommend a different rear sight, like the Daniel Defense, too)
Rob makes excellent points. The 6920, is not only an excellent starting point, it will take you to the finish line, regardless of what you want or need.
BTW, it was over two years before I did anything to my Tacoma, and that was adding a toolbox and bed extender. I got BFGoodrich all terrains from the dealer when I bought it.
Bob
lethal dose
10-03-10, 15:46
You might take a look at the Rock River Arms AR15 on sale. I'm delighted with mine. It's loaded with extra's without the extra cost.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=463
Fourbits
^ this is terrible advise- read "the chart" and you'll know why. Go with the colt and don't look back.
Please explain the "fit your budget scenario". We have talked about this in the past and unless there is a dire NEED (not want) you can always wait the extra few months to save the money to buy a Colt.
People that like Colt are not "fanboys". The decision is made based on their quality and years of performance. Don't be so emotional in your posts. Use some sense and be objective and you'll see what we are talking about.
Disclaimer- I do not own a Colt and have never owned a Colt other than the ones on loan to me from the USG.
Get something that will fit in your budget, plase don't just listen to the colt nutswingers and fanboys and mak your decision based on the purpose of the rifle, what will come with it, what you want to eventually do with it how many rounds a year, and also your budget.
I think it may be obvious, but if it's not, I should make clear that while I'm very much a gun guy, I don't know anything about ARs.
I've never wanted a "black rifle" type of weapon in the past. I've been all about revolvers and 1911's and Browning Hi Powers, then heavy into Glocks, also pump shotguns, and lever rifles in pistol calibers. I've owned and used all those weapons for years. The black rifle never appealed to me one bit. In fact, I still think they're fugly looking weapons with no aesthetic appeal.
THAT SAID, I do recognize their considerable merit as a weapon! And with an eye toward greater potential for civil unrest and possible break down of law and order in this country, I feel it's wise for me to have an AR and be fairly fluent with it. And it seems like this is a good time to buy one.
So, I really know NOTHING about ARs at this point and must rely on others to guide me toward the best starting point. I don't know what an A2 grip is, I don't know the difference between the sights on the 6920 vs. the DDefense rear sight. I need to learn so much. But I also know that I need to have and shoot one so that I CAN understand the differences in various components.
I'm not opposed to buying a BCM or Daniel Defense if I will have a gun with equal reliability to the 6920 and good marketability (if I decided to sell and buy something different). I have a personal attraction to Colts, but that doesn't mean I have to have a Colt.
If I'm likely to want a different grip or butt stock or rear sight than what comes with the Colt, is there a particular model of Daniel Defense or BCM that many here could agree on that might be a better choice for an AR newbie? Perhaps I should buy a used AR to get schooled up with? (Something off the radar as well.) Or is buying a used AR much more risky in terms of acquiring someone else's headache?
As for rails and such, I just want a sling and a light and I'll be good with that. I want to keep weight down and simplicity up. I also think I want a shorter (carbine) length for easy maneuverability in home defense. Can I just buy a longer barrel to use when I want to do longer range stuff or is it better to just have one barrel with one gun?
If resale value is a consideration at all I would recommend Colt. You will not go wrong with a Colt in any way. If you knew what you want you may decide some other brand fits you better. You sound just as you described yourself, an AR newb. I could go into a giant post to list recommendations, but a big part of it would be my opinion largely based on my experiences. Instead I would recommend finding someone who lives close to you that would be willing to make a range trip with you and give you and introduction and possibly some trigger time on the AR system. I don't know your location but I would be willing to help someone get started as such. In fact I have intro'd a couple of my buddies and family members. I feel a little satisfaction in helping new people avoid some of the mistakes I've made.
I also have a Colt 6920 and am very pleased.
I think that the best advice on this thread is written by Rob_s. (No disrespect to any of the other good advice.)
While I have not done very much shooting, I started with a bone-stock 6920 and have made modifications to it based upon what I realized would help me personally.
I originally shot the gun with no changes for several hundred rounds.
I added a VTAC 2 point sling, and added an Aimpoint T-1. I also added a flip-up BUIS, but am not so sure I made a good purchase on the BUIS I bought.
I later realized that the factory stock was looser that I liked and had some sharp edges that I sanded down but couldn't get smooth enough. I replaced it with an ACS. It's a bit heavier, but the cheek weld is very good and the lock-up is much better.
After awhile, I didn't like how the sling connected to the ACS QD swivel and installed a Noveske QD mount endplate. It has been a big improvement.
I also became tired of the A2 pistol grip and replaced it with an Ergo grip that I love.
When I first bought the gun, I imagined getting a set of rails for it, a low profile gas block, and all the the covers to make it look cool. Now I realize that it's pointless for my purposes and would have just been extra cash and weight.
I think it may be obvious, but if it's not, I should make clear that while I'm very much a gun guy, I don't know anything about ARs.
I've never wanted a "black rifle" type of weapon in the past. I've been all about revolvers and 1911's and Browning Hi Powers, then heavy into Glocks, also pump shotguns, and lever rifles in pistol calibers. I've owned and used all those weapons for years. The black rifle never appealed to me one bit. In fact, I still think they're fugly looking weapons with no aesthetic appeal.
THAT SAID, I do recognize their considerable merit as a weapon! And with an eye toward greater potential for civil unrest and possible break down of law and order in this country, I feel it's wise for me to have an AR and be fairly fluent with it. And it seems like this is a good time to buy one.
So, I really know NOTHING about ARs at this point and must rely on others to guide me toward the best starting point. I don't know what an A2 grip is, I don't know the difference between the sights on the 6920 vs. the DDefense rear sight. I need to learn so much. But I also know that I need to have and shoot one so that I CAN understand the differences in various components.
I'm not opposed to buying a BCM or Daniel Defense if I will have a gun with equal reliability to the 6920 and good marketability (if I decided to sell and buy something different). I have a personal attraction to Colts, but that doesn't mean I have to have a Colt.
If I'm likely to want a different grip or butt stock or rear sight than what comes with the Colt, is there a particular model of Daniel Defense or BCM that many here could agree on that might be a better choice for an AR newbie? Perhaps I should buy a used AR to get schooled up with? (Something off the radar as well.) Or is buying a used AR much more risky in terms of acquiring someone else's headache?
As for rails and such, I just want a sling and a light and I'll be good with that. I want to keep weight down and simplicity up. I also think I want a shorter (carbine) length for easy maneuverability in home defense. Can I just buy a longer barrel to use when I want to do longer range stuff or is it better to just have one barrel with one gun?
The people in this forum wouldnt recomend the BCM or Daniel Defense rifles if they weren't as reliable as a Colt. They are excellent choices and are viewed as equal quality as the Colts.
Like was stated before, you can get rifles with different options than the 6920, but none would be a "better" weapon than the Colt.
When we talk about carbine vs midlength we are talking about the gas system, not the barrel length. The carbine system is 7 inches long while the midlength is 9 inches long. Both can be had on the legal 16 inch barrels. Some people prefer the midlength system for the 16 inch guns as its more a natural system for that barrel length. The carbine system was made for the M4 which has a 14.5 inch barrel, not a 16 inch like the Colt 6920.
A 16 inch barrel is plenty long enough to reach out to 500 yards if you are up to it.
If you can afford new I would get that. You never know how someone treated their rifle you just bought.
It's hard to beat the 6920. Technical Data Package design with about 60 years of combat refinement. Excellent quality controls, function, and performance. I currently have a 6920 and a BCM middy. Both have excellent function and performance, but the Colt is a little more refined overall. The BCM makes no compromises in function, but it isn't "quite" as clean cosmetically as the Colt. Probably why BCM uses this promotion phrase "Gun Fighters Wanted". BCM does offer some improvements to the M4 platform though like hammer forged barrels and mid-length gas systems. Colt offers an outstanding product, but they are a little slow to change things in the civilian market.........but hey, some people prefer the conservative tried and true approach.
Another thought to add, you mentioned geting a used AR to learn to handle/shoot. In this regard I would recommend the S&W M&P15-22, it is cheaper than a used AR and will be cheaper to shoot and gain knowledge on the AR system with. It functions the same as a 5.56 AR will. I went this route to help maintain/increase my AR skills with. One of the mistakes I see made so often is to buy a cheaper brand of AR thinking it will be "just as good as", the chart is priceless in it's ability to stear a potential new buyer away from this mistake, just be sure to use and understand it. Also, don't become overwhelmed and frustrated with this decision. Take the time and learn as much as you can before spending $$. I've always enjoyed researching new weapons systems, if nothing else just for the knowledge in the new system, but more often than not I find myself avoiding a spending mistake by not jumping on my first impression.
So much sage advice here. And thanks to everyone who took the time and effort to reply to my quest.
I really enjoy the research and study phase of new interests. I'm studying "the chart" and the many good threads here to get myself more "schooled up". Each year I find some new interest or aspect of an existing interest to immerse myself in and delve deeply into. Looks like the AR is emerging as the coming year's intense-study hobby for me.
I'm really looking forward to my first shooting experience with the AR! I do have a friend who has one and is definitely well schooled from his military training with weapons. No doubt he and I will do some AR shooting in the near future.
=====
jhs1969... I have a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm that has lived in my safe, unused, for years (it's virtually NIB)... I bought it on a whim and then decided that a rifle in 9mm didn't really make a lot of sense. I think I should look into flipping my CX4 Storm for an M&P15-22! Great idea. Thank you.
If the mid-length gas system is a natural complement to a 16" barrel, is it a better choice than the carbine gas system for a 6920 with 16" barrel? Can/should one change the carbine length gas system on the 16" 6920?
dennisuello
10-03-10, 23:13
If the mid-length gas system is a natural complement to a 16" barrel, is it a better choice than the carbine gas system for a 6920 with 16" barrel? Can/should one change the carbine length gas system on the 16" 6920?
You can't just swap a gas system. You will need a new barrel, so might as well just start with BCM middy to begin with if you think you'll want a middy sometime down the road.
You can't just swap a gas system. You will need a new barrel, so might as well just start with BCM middy to begin with if you think you'll want a middy sometime down the road.
OK. I have no idea if I would prefer middy to carbine. Do most guys wind up preferring the middy to the carbine length gas system with 16" barrels?
The good news, too, is that there is little to nothing (in terms of handling) that can't be overcome in the carbine-length gas. Decide you want a longer rail? No problem, chop the FSB and install one. Obviously some people prefer the perceived reduced recoil impulse of the mid-length gas system (something I hope to be able to quantify shortly) but there is also some thought now that the carbine-length may be more reliable in the long run due to the harsher impulse being better able to overcome accumulated filth.
In short, for a new shooter that needs time to build up a set of wants and needs, I don't find the 6920 lacking in any way. If asked, I'd probably suggest the 6720 with .625" barrel from Clyde (https://policeguns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=16_236&products_id=6615&osCsid=38a20thehkngqu3h30ktmkhf96), but that's an incremental change at most. I think that reduced weight with a more logical barrel profile is something that virtually everyone can agree on, but don't think that very many people would notice the difference, blindfolded, without some experience. If someone asked me today "what should I buy" my answer would be "Colt 6720 and a Magpul MOE grip" just because I hate the A2 that much. :D
(for learning irons I'd probably recommend a different rear sight, like the Daniel Defense, too)
Rob... I'm looking at the Clyde 6720. Thanks for the suggestion. Seems like a logical, if modest, change from the 6920.
Does the handle detach from the 6920 to allow use as a flat top?
Does the handle detach from the 6920 to allow use as a flat top?
Yes, allowing you any choice of sights you wish. I like Aimpoints myself.
Yes, allowing you any choice of sights you wish. I like Aimpoints myself.
Excellent... allowing the more traditional look, if desired, and flexibility for a variety of sight options. So, the variety of iron sights, red dot sights, scopes, etc are all possible with the 6920?
Oh man... after a long day and night of reading and researching, I think I've changed my mind and want either a BCM Recce-14 (or possibly the Recce-16). Sounds like all the quality I desire is there; I like the benefits of the middy gas system and the benefit of the PWS brake, with the short 16.1" TOTAL barrel length. I think I'm really there on this gun, unless I'm missing something. :)
I am wondering what is given up in velocity and range with the -14 vs. the -16. Any thoughts on that trade off?
I would not advise a 14.5" barrel with pinned device as a first/only AR. What it does is limit your options later on because you can't remove the muzzle device without destroying it by cutting it off, which requires shop services for most people. If you can't remove the muzzle device you can't remove the front sight or gas block, and if you can't remove the front sight or gas block you can't remove the barrel nut. Most rail systems have their own proprietary nut which means if you're stuck with the barrel nut, you're stuck with the rail. We're in the golden age of the AR, with innovation happening monthly if not weekly. Since it's your first, you want to keep options open. If you've decided to go with the BCM RECCE (good guns, I have an article coming out on them) get the 16".
Personally I would still advise starting with the 6920. It's easy to get distracted with all the options on the market.
Dhart,
I'm with Rob, get the 6920, and don't look back(for now). As been noted it is the standard, by the company that has been making them forever.
Anything you want to do down the road, can be done to the 6920. This is very much like 1911's, you can go in a thousand directions, and spend alot of money on them. Would you recommend a Les Bear, or NighHawk to some one who's never shot a 1911 before?
Or, would you recommend a good solid Colt, or SA, with perhaps a minumum of "upgrades" like better then GI sights. learn to shoot it, decide if you truly like it, shoot others guns, talk to smiths and do alot of research, then either buy another, or mod the one you have?
Same difference,
6920
Cases of ammo
Pmags x 10(or so)
VCAS sling
and if your truly serious about using the M16fow, get into a basic carbine operators class with Pat Rogers or Larry Vickers.
From there, you will see whats available, and thier pro's and cons, and if they are for you.
Eventually you'll see a light is a necessity on a working gun, and a RDS, is almost so.
Bob
Crow Hunter
10-04-10, 08:16
Not that I can add much to this but...
The 6920 is the measuring stick by which all the others are judged. Everything done to an AR is compared back to the 6920.
As an analogy, would you go out a buy a pair of shoes without trying them on? Sure, they might look good on Chris Costa's feet in a Magpul video. They might fit Rob Sloyer's feet perfectly, but will they fit you? Hopefully you would try those shoes on before you bought them.
If you buy the 6920 and you try it out and it doesn't "fit your feet" you can modify it easily enough and if you don't want to modify it, there is good enough brand recognition that you could sell it to anybody, even someone with little to no knowledge of AR-15s know the Colt brand. (Think of someone in your shoes now :D) Only AR cognesceti recognize BCM and DD as brand names, most average gun owners would probably place Bushmaster or Rock River over BCM or DD just because they only know what they see on the over of gun "advertisements", I mean gun magazines.
So to reiterate, get a basic Colt 6920, shoot 300-500 rounds out of it, see IF there is something about it you don't like or is holding you back and then change it.
Hope this helps.
Ps. I was in your shoes not too long ago, I went with a couple of 6920's and I haven't looked back.
As you can tell... I'm already getting pulled by some of the latest developments. Thanks so much for the guidance.
I got the impression that the middie was a helpful change from carbine in enabling landing more good hits in slightly less time by somewhat reducing recoil (and also lessening wear and tear on the gun), without any downside. Is that not quite the case? Are they perhaps not quite ready for primetime just yet? I also liked the look of the middie, with less of the barrel unexposed. Aside from that, I guess I could take or leave the Recce-14/16. I wasn't aware of the limitations imposed by the welded-on FH on the Recce-14. Thanks for pointing that out.
So, it sounds like the Recce-16 would be a good alternative to the 6920, unless the middie might just possibly represent a potential compromise to reliability as compared to the carbine length gas system. It's the benefits of the middie that draws me from the 6920 to the Recce-16. But, it seems like the benefits of the middie are probably marginal enough as to be not that big-a-deal?
Mid-lengths have gained a LOT of ground in the last couple of years, and much of it within the last year. They are not, however, a panacea. Regardless of how common they seem on the internet the quantity in circulation is still dwarfed by the number in circulation of carbine-length gas systems. While a small concern in many minds, spare parts availability is a concern here. There is also some amount of consensus that the carbine-length gas system with increased pressure may run longer, dirtier, than the mid-length with lowered pressure.
In terms of benefits of the mid-length, there is the one obvious and indisputable advantage of simply having a longer handguard giving more flexibility for the support hand location and allowing more mounting space on a rail that retains the front sight base. The other two oft-cited "advantages" are not quantified and are far more subjective and they include "reduced wear and tear" and "faster followup shots". I intend to quantify this at some time in the future through a series of tests but haven't gotten to it yet.
If you are absolutely set on a mid-length I would suggest the BCM Mid 16LW (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16LW-Light-weight-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/148.htm). It is the BCM equivalent of the 6720 I posted earlier with virtually the only difference being the length of the gas system and the markings on the lower receiver. I don't believe the complete BCM is available yet, but you can piece one together yourself if you feel inclined. It requires no more work or competence than would be required to field strip the gun.
$385 BCM Standard 16" Mid Length (LIGHT WEIGHT) Upper Receiver Group (.625FSB) (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw.htm)
$140 BCM Bolt Carrier Group (MPI) - Auto (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm)
$110 BCM AR-15 Carry Handle - MILSPEC Height (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-Carry-Handle-BCM-p/bcm%20carry%20handle%20ar-15.htm)
$23 CMT AR15 Charging Handle (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Charging-Handle-p/charging%20handle%20ar15.htm)
$20 Mid LengthHandguards BLACK (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Mid-Length-Handguards-Black-p/handguards%20mid%20length%20black.htm)
$340 BCM4 Lower Receiver Group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Lower-Receiver-Groups-M4-AR15-s/117.htm)
$4 Gapper (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Gapper-p/gapper.htm) (trust me here)
This is where a lot of people are going to post and say "don't get that handguard, get this one" and "you really should get the xyz charging handle", or maybe "that stock sucks, get one like mine" and even "all the cool kids are using the abc grip". They are not necessarily wrong, but starting with the stock parts will allow you to get proficient with the gun and if you make those changes later you will understand WHY you made those changes. The internet is full of jerkies posting "I like the thingy I got a lot" without any concept of why or what improvement, if any, it provides over the stock part.
If you simply can't help yourself, here would be my suggestions that would get some of these people off your back.
$385 BCM Standard 16" Mid Length (LIGHT WEIGHT) Upper Receiver Group (.625FSB) (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw.htm)
$140 BCM Bolt Carrier Group (MPI) - Auto (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm)
$340 BCM4 Lower Receiver Group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Lower-Receiver-Groups-M4-AR15-s/117.htm)
$45 BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) w/ Mod 4 (MEDIUM) Latch (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-4-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%204%20556.htm)
(stronger latch and allows greater control of the charging handle and less prone to breakage)
$33 Magpul MOE Handguard - MID Length - BLACK (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-MOE-MID-Length-Handguard-BLACK-p/mag418%20blk.htm)
(just an all around better handguard than the regular round ones)
$65 Daniel Defense A1.5 Fixed Rear Sight (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-A1-5-Fixed-Rear-Sight-p/dd-11002.htm)
(a lighter, lower profile alternative to the carry handle that will allow you to mount a red dot sight in front of it later on)
You could also opt to change out the stock and pistol grip on the lower. In that case I would suggest
$20 Magpul MOE AR15/M16 Grip - BLACK (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-MOE-AR15-M16-Grip-BLACK-p/mag415%20-%20black.htm)
$57 Magpul MOE (Milspec) Stock BLACK (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-MOE-Stock-Black-p/mag400%20%20black.htm)
See how quickly this all gets out of hand? Is mid-length really better, if so is it better for me, if I buy a mid-length should I build it myself, if I do what parts should I use, if the lower comes with a stock and grip should I really change them out right away, is the carryhandle rear sight really what I want or would something else be better.....
None of these problems exist with the 6920. I listed what I did above in the event that you just can't contain yourself, to some extent, as well as to stave off the kinds of replies I fully expect at any moment to this thread. ;)
Failure2Stop
10-04-10, 10:27
I am a big fan of middies, but when it comes to split times, the biggest firrst step is to really learn how to shoot it. If you have not been into combative shooting before there is a distinct skillset that you need to acquire. While possible to do so on your own, it will take significantly less time with far fewer bad habits of you go to a reputable course by proficient instructors.
I can cover 98% of my 5.56 rifle needs with a 16" middie, and I can perform at 98% of that with a 6920. I am not a fan of the carbine length gas system in barrels of 14" or longer (and I have been carrying an M4 professionally for many years, and an M16 for even longer), but they are still viable.
If you do decide to get into the middie game I agree with the sentiment that a 16" gun is the best starter length as it permits the greatest ability to change and upgrade parts as you find your preferences after you have built your skillset. Going with anything shorter will either require NFA hoop-jumping and delay, or severely limit your ability to optimize your setup and perform potential long-term maintenance.
I would also recommend against the PWS FSC on a first gun. I really liked mine, but it is noisy and throws up a huge dust cloud if shooting from unconventional prones- a dust cloud that can obscure your target and/or indicate your position to an adversary. I am not at all saying that it is a bad piece of gear, simply that if it is permanently attached to your barrel you are out of options. If you can run a gun with an A2 comp with proficiency, experimenting with other muzzle devices will give you a much better understanding of exactly what the device does or does not bring to the table, and at what cost.
A 6920 with a VCAS or VTAC sling, G2 light, iron sights, 5 good magazines and 2,000 rounds of decent ammo plus a carbine course will give you everything you need to go to the next level with minimal expense and time. You could submit a few other guns for "6920", but that list is short indeed. Regardless of what you buy if you don't seek the training piece you will never really know what you have.
Failure2Stop
10-04-10, 10:50
There is also some amount of consensus that the carbine-length gas system with increased pressure may run longer, dirtier, than the mid-length with lowered pressure.
A bit off topic, but I'll bite.
I don't agree. We constantly have to balance the bolt force/velocity with the ability to actually extract the fired round. The carbine gas system with a 16" barrel goes beyond the 14.5 barrels as far as gas volume and duration are concerned, which leads to torn case rims and dropped extractions, even with good extractors, and these problems are well documented in 14.5 barrels.
I have run dirty M4s and 10.5 guns for thousands of rounds without cleaning, I have observed dozens of both run for thousands of rounds without cleaning, I have run dirty 16" middies for thousands of rounds, and I have observed about 20 middies run for thousands of rounds. The only difference I have seen is that the carbine length guns need to be re-lubed more often and break bolts sooner. True, I have seen a lot more 14.5 and 10.5 mil guns than I have 16" middies, and the middies I have seen are quality pieces maintained and run by enthusiasts, but I don't see the evidence, especially considering that the rifle-length gas ssytem is by far the most reliable DI system. By the logic above the rifle should be the least reliable. Since it is pretty obvious that this is not the case it would seem to me that if you have a middie that is not running when fouled you have gone too far down the "upgraded" buffer and spring route.
Wow. I can tell I'm going to really enjoy exploring and learning the AR. For so many years as a shooter of various firearms types, I just wasn't drawn to black rifles, as so very many others have taken to it enthusiastically. Closest I got was buying a Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm, which I never really used much at all, anyway. :rolleyes: I've often wondered why black rifles didn't appeal to me. And I think it's really just the aesthetic I needed to get around. (I sheepishly admit I'm old school.) Same with Glocks for many years. Finally, I saw the light with Glocks and now choose my Glocks over my beloved 1911's as "go-to" guns. I guess the timing just wasn't right for me with black rifles. Until now. I'm finally ready. And eagerly interested in the platform!
Rob... thank you for that detailed run down on the alternative choices to the 6920. I know I would be thrilled with the 6920, but as you totally picked up on, it's possible that I may not be able to "help myself" at this point and may choose to go the middie route. Your suggestions are much appreciated. I've heard so many times that once I get an AR, it's almost assured that a second one will follow. So whether the first is the 6920 and the second is the BCM middie or vice-versa, it looks like either route will be a good one!
This is really exciting. I'm glad I finally caught the bug.
F2S-
Maybe, maybe not. Much like "decreased recoil impulse reduces wear and improves split times" there's really no quantifiable data on it.
It would be interesting to see if the test Mike Pannone ran on the BCM (14.5", IIRC) with nothing more than "assembly lube" would be as successful with a mid-length. Obviously it would need to be done multiple times, with multiple samples, to really mean anything.
Given a mid-length and a carbine-length, let's say 14.5", that both operate without issue in the 1-1,000 round realm I wonder which would fail first after they started to accumulate buildup.
RogueElephant
10-04-10, 13:43
Great thread!
Like DHart, I am mulling the purchase of my first carbine. On another discussion board that I frequent, NCPatrolAR recommended the 6920 to me. He also suggested I might look at the Daniel Defense carbines. Maybe most importantly, he pointed me to this board for further research. This place is like the old quip about trying to get a sip from a fire hose!
Prior to NCPatrolAR's input, I had been leaning to the Colt and was unfamiliar with the DD stuff. After checking out DD, I have to admit the DD M4 Carbine, v3 calls powerfully to me. In fact, I nearly took the plunge.
You guys have me stewing again. Obviously knowledgeable, experienced people make persuasive arguements for the 6920. This thread has, at least, caused me to seriously revisit the Colt. Like DHart, I may not be able to help myself.
Rogue Elephant... I'm looking at the Middy 16" BCM and, like you, also the DD M4 V3 middy. Both of these middy 16" models are almost exactly what I think I would like. Obviously, the 6920 is a stellar choice, but if these models are as well made and as reliable and a little less expensive... it's a difficult not to want to go the middy route. I really like the longer handguard (appearance & I have long arms) and the *potentially* reduced wear & tear and quicker follow up shots associated with the middy gas system. The 6920 still holds a lot of appeal for me as well, for all the reasons stated throughout this thread.
RogueElephant
10-04-10, 14:26
I'm looking at the Middy 16" BCM and, like you, also the DD M4 V3 middy. Both of these middy 16" models are almost exactly what I think I would like.
Yep, add a sling and a RDS and I would be set for awhile. After some training and experience, when I felt competent enough to consider it a personal defense weapon, I would undoubtedly add a light. Simple is good.
rob and f2s: excellent posts as always and full of great information. Going to make one correction to your post though rob
$340 BCM4 Lower Receiver Group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Lower-Receiver-Groups-M4-AR15-s/117.htm)
$4 Gapper (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Gapper-p/gapper.htm) (trust me here)
If you order the lower from G&R (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM) it comes with the Moe trigger guard and you can save the $4 on the Gapper ;)
ETA: looks like the lowers straight from BCM are coming with the moe trigger guard as well
IME the MOE is not as good as the aluminum trigger guard, and does not sufficiently fill the gap. I'd rather have a standard GI guard and gapper or the aluminum one. The MOE, for me, doesn't accomplish enough of anything. Although with gloves full time it's passable.
Vorpal_weapon
10-04-10, 15:18
I wholly concur that a Colt 6920 is the easy first choice. I've had mine for probably 11 years - never regretted buying it. It's still one of the more accurate 5.56 rifles I own. Only mods I've implemented are a KAC RAS (to mount a light - currently a SF 6P), SOPMOD stock (I just really like the cheek weld), ARMS #40 (it was really about the only choice in those days) and an ML2 Aimpoint (it used to have a EO552) - it wears a Vickers sling (although I've come to prefer VTAC Mk2).
I have a couple of LMTs (10.5" and 16"), a couple of Colt SP1 AR-15s, and a couple of Noveskes as well (SPR and switchblock recce), and I carry a Colt M16/Mk18 on the job - that's my basis of comparison. I've owned lots of the other stuff (you might notice the past tense there).
There are pluses and minuses to any product. The Colt 6920 is truly a known quantity - significantly, they developed the TDP. The 6920 is a solid piece of gear - nothing "needs replacing," - it comes GTG right out of the box.
IMHO, the only downside to a Colt is the odd axis pin size on the FCG and the half moon cut BC. But, you get a HPT MPI bolt and barrel. Sure, other's offer that, but Colt bolt/bolt carrier sets are the benchmark standard for duty grade ARs - I have them in all my ARs (yep, even in the Noveskes).
I also like the Noveske products very much - you get a lot of quality, but your initial cost will be considerably more. I bought the stainless barrel 18" SPR for a precision AR (yes, it is the most accurate rifle I own) and the 16" switchblock light recce to run suppressed. Both are exceptional quality - truly professional grade gear (nice esthetics too).
In chorus, I also believe that a 16" barrel is the all-around best compromise length, particularly if you're only going to have one. Its short enough to be handy and retains more velocity than the shorter lengths (don't forget that MV is the other half of what makes 5.56 lethal - right after accuracy :D ). Personally, I think the whole 14.5" w/ pinned-FH thing is a mistake. :rolleyes:
Go with a 6920 (or if you're budget is fat a Noveske), you won't be sorry - you will thank us later.
IMHO, the only downside to a Colt is the odd axis pin size on the FCG and the half moon cut BC.
6920s now ship with standard FCG pins and full M16 carriers. ;)
Vorpal_weapon
10-04-10, 15:33
6920s now ship with standard FCG pins and full M16 carriers. ;)
Lets see now - that even makes it easier :)
That was one of the main reasons I started buying LMT carbines (which I still think are a good value).
Crow Hunter
10-04-10, 16:04
This discussion brought up a question in my mind.
Is there a "standard" for mid lengths?
-Gas tube length
-Buffer weight
-Gas port diameter
-Gas port position on the barrel
If you were to buy for instance a BCM mid length and then need to replace a component due to wear or just for fun, can you buy a DD part or an Armalite part or are they brand specific?
I vaguely remember Armalite being the 1st manufacturer that I saw with this option. I remember the push then being longer sight radius and the ability to mount a bayonet.
Did they "create" the standard and others are modeled after them or did each company develop their own proprietary designs?
Here's a read on some of the problems with carbine length gas sytems on longer barrels:
http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes%5CTech%20Note%2048,%20Barrel%20Design,%20Heat,%20and%20Reliability,%20030824%E2%80%A6.pdf
OK, so...
Is there really an advantage worth the $200-300 difference in getting a Colt? (Other than resale value)? That is all I see - with a DD complete rifle, he also gets a lifetime warranty. And... $300 gets close to 1K of ammo.
Or, he can even get a middie for less.
If your heart is set on Colt - fine though, but I'm not sure I get it. Lots of choices today. Robb_S is right - it gets mind-boggling after a while!
OK... sorry for the newb questions.
I understand the recommendations to go with the 6920. It's traditional, solid, tried and true. Good strong choice.
That said, how many here would choose a stock or modified 6920 as their one and only AR-15 set-up? Would you choose a modified 6920 for your one-and-only, or would you choose a middy 16" of some configuration as your one-and-only? I ask this because I am zeroing in on picking up a 6920 locally tomorrow ~OR~ ordering a BCM mid-16 variant or DD M4 V3 (mid) tomorrow.
My dumb questions are these:
Does going with a 6920 completely preclude having a middy gas system or if I decide I want a middy gas system, is it possible to adapt the 6920 to that? (If so, what do I buy? A middy barrel? Or a middy barrel and upper combination? Is a gunsmith needed to adapt middy parts to a 6920? OR, does it just make a lot more sense to just buy another AR for a middy and leave the 6920 as a carbine gas system?)
If I go with a 6920, I assume it is straight forward to change out all of the items listed below?
• stock
• pistol grip
• hand guard
• rails
• front sight
• rear sight
• trigger guard?
Does the modified trigger guard found on the BCMs and DD's feel significantly more comfortable to the second finger than the straight cut finger guard on the 6920?
Other questions... Rob, you mentioned that if I couldn't "help myself" and had to get something other than the 6920, that I should get the Colt 6720 lightweight or a BCM "Lightweight" upper set-up. What is it about that upper that makes it "lightweight" and is there a downside to that choice? Is it the lack of a carry handle or is there something about the upper itself that is lightened in a lightweight upper? Thinner barrel?
Rear sight... do most people decide that the carry handle sight typical on the 6920 is not what they want and just remove it, replacing it with something else? If so, does it make a lot of sense to even buy a rifle with the carry handle sight on it in the first place? Or is the Colt such a solid enough choice anyway that replacing the carry handle with a DD rear sight makes better sense than just buying a DD with the DD rear sight on it to begin with?
Barrels... a friend complained that the barrel on his Bushmaster got too hot (glowing!). Is it better to have a heavier barrel to resist heat better or a lighter barrel for better handling and just monitor the heat levels more closely? "The chart" doesn't indicate barrel thickness differences and it doesn't seem that manufacturers make these differences clearly noted. How do you know what barrels are lighter/thinner and which ones are beefier?
I ask these questions because if I am more likely than not to want to replace the stock, pistol grip, trigger guard, rear sight, hand guard and possibly front sight with something else, does it make better sense to try to configure a gun with the "something" else to begin with? I realize that there are so many possible variations that predicting mods for an individual is difficult... but is there enough clear evidence that shows that many of the Colt parts are likely to be replaced with a set of "commonly desired" parts, like Magpul stock and grip and hand guard, DD rear sight, and BCM gunfighter charging handle?
I know that many of you are recommending I buy the "typical" set-up to begin with and then decide what to change... but if most people change components out to commonly desired alternate components anyway... well, do I have a valid point in thinking about dialing up a "typically desired" common set-up and then I may not have as much that I will want to change out? Honestly, I'm not trying to circumvent your general recommendations, my mind is just critically thinking...
Or do I REALLY NEED to just shut the f up and buy the Colt? ;) I can pick up a 6920 for $1250 tomorrow, locally, no tax or shipping cost, and bring it home. Or, I can order up something with more cherry picked components from BCM or a DD M4 V3 tomorrow and wait for delivery.
Just buy the Colt.
Exactly.
DHart, it would be possible to your last post in detail, but I think if you go back and read it you'll see that you're getting sucked down the rabbit hole. At some point you have to put a pin in it and make a purchase. You can continue to chase the rabbit but if you do you will always wind up finding one more new and wonderful thing *just* before you're about to buy.
Be careful with what "most" people do. Persons are smart, people are stupid. When I started to get back into ARs after the ban ended I spent hundreds of dollars and hours and hours building the perfect barfcom rifle with the latest and greatest bits and pieces. I posted pictures of it on that forum and all the other goobers oohed and aaahed and I thought I had accomplished something. Then I went and shot it. It sucked. at least for what I wanted to do with it.
The journey is part of the learning. If this isn't about becoming a capable shooter with a tool fine tuned to your wants, needs, desires, and shooting style then just buy whatever and glue whatever looks good to it. I wouldn't even bother with a quality firearm. I can tell you that my own advice to you is based on an initial complete ****up of a purchase, and spending the last 10 years learning what a ****up that really was. The sad thing is that most who do what I did will never get out and shoot the thing enough to figure out what a ****up they made. I post pictures of my current #1 carbine some places and get questions about why no rail, and VFG, and proton pack, and NVG.... but after all this time it is the PERFECT carbine for me and my needs and my only regret is that if I had started slowly with a base carbine and gone out and shot the gun I may have come to understand this much, much sooner.
RogueElephant
10-05-10, 06:32
As expressed earlier in this thread, like DHart and for a variety of what seemed to me good reasons, I was REALLY attracted to a non-6920 carbine.
DHart is particularly drawn to the mid-length gas system and I understand that attraction. OTOH, I have no problem with the carbine length gas system, I just see pros and cons of each.
After going around the circle several times, it finally registered that the Colt seems to be an absolutely safe play and if its original configuration doesn't exactly suit me, it can become anything I want with the tried-and-true Colt for the foundation.
So, my plan is to first buy the 6920 with a sling, folding rear sight, RDS, extra magazines and a BUNCH of ammo. Then, off to carbine school. If my second rifle is not a 7.62 NATO, it will likely be the DD M4 Carbine, v3 middy.
So, thank you DHart and all who contributed to make this a great and helpful thread! ron_s's input here and his writings elsewhere weighed heavily in making and feeling satisfied with my decision.
Remember that correlation to the 1911? There it is.
Rob covered it all pretty good, it will never end.
No matter what you buy, you will be looking to change something.
Colt, BCM, DD, your not gonna go to far wrong with any of them, but chances are it wont stay stock, either.
I have two 6920's, w/ DD rails, and a DD V3 just may be my next M4, or the Colt, or......
Bob
If I go with a 6920, I assume it is straight forward to change out all of the items listed below?
• stock
• pistol grip
• hand guard
• rails
• front sight
• rear sight
• trigger guard?
At some point you are going to have to make a decision. Also you don't need to change out much on the 6920. You could change the grip and the stock and be good to go. If you are going to change all the things you list in your post then get an upper from BCM that matches what you want.
Sometimes we get overloaded with info. The internet gives us too much information and opinions. This makes us question our choice. I would say go with your first instinct. I had the same problem when I wanted to purchase a TV. I had to stop visiting avsforum.com because it seemed like there were problems or issues with every make and model of television set.
I had to stop visiting avsforum.com because it seemed like there were problems or issues with every make and model of television set.
Not to mention as soon as you get set on something the latest new thing comes out, or Magpul goes to SHOT and shows off things you won't be able to own until 2015. :sarcastic:
Every week you wait to make a decision there's a match you could have attended. Every month you wait there's a class you could have taken. Every year, decade, or lifetime there's someone dead because they couldn't make up their mind and didn't have a gun when they needed it.
I agree that you should get the 6920. Get it, shoot it and then decide what you want replaced. People change parts on the 6920 because of their own desire, not need. There are no bad parts on that rifle.
The only part I say you should buy right off is the gapper plugs for the trigger guard. Without one that gap will tear up your finger during a class where you do a lot of manipulation.
As Bob mentions, I know all too well about changing things on 1911's just because you can. I've got or had a few 1911's over the years than, in hindsight, I wish I had left the heck alone. So I learned that lesson. It's difficult to resist the allure to change up parts on a popular gun which has a bazillion possible parts changes. I have often cautioned people new to 1911's to not change anything unless they find a need to, so I should take my own medicine when it comes to my first AR!
I do want to know, however, is it possible to convert a 6920 to a middy? What would it take to do so? Is it a fairly straightforward swap of parts, or is it too involved/tempermental to be worth it? I'm just curious about that... the answer won't sway my purchase decision any.
And one quick question... is there a best choice for reliable 30 round mags? If so, what is it?
And one quick question... is there a best choice for reliable 30 round mags? If so, what is it?
PMAGS.
The search function is your friend...
PMAGS.
The search function is your friend...
Thank you. I will search.
To change a 6920 to a mid-length you'd be best served by buying a new barrel, FSB, and gas tube at the least or a barreled upper (barrel, FSB, gas tube, barrel nut, delta ring, upper, forward assist, dust cover, flash hider) at most. you can always sell Colt parts.
As Bob mentions, I know all too well about changing things on 1911's just because you can. I've got or had a few 1911's over the years than, in hindsight, I wish I had left the heck alone. So I learned that lesson. It's difficult to resist the allure to change up parts on a popular gun which has a bazillion possible parts changes. I have often cautioned people new to 1911's to not change anything unless they find a need to, so I should take my own medicine when it comes to my first AR!
I do want to know, however, is it possible to convert a 6920 to a middy? What would it take to do so? Is it a fairly straightforward swap of parts, or is it too involved/tempermental to be worth it? I'm just curious about that... the answer won't sway my purchase decision any.
I dont see why you couldnt nut it would be a pain in the ass I bet.
You would need:
midlength barrel
midlength gas tube
midlength handguard
change out the front sight base/gas block
Probably a different weight buffer
It would be easier to just buy another upper.
To change a 6920 to a mid-length you'd be best served by buying a new barrel, FSB, and gas tube at the least or a barreled upper (barrel, FSB, gas tube, barrel nut, delta ring, upper, forward assist, dust cover, flash hider) at most. you can always sell Colt parts.
Thanks Rob... this isn't something I expect I would do, but just wondering if it's within reason to do or better to just get a second rifle, if a middy is desired. :cool:
Any recommendations on the best DVD on the care (cleaning, assembly/disassembly, etc.) and feeding of the AR? I will search, but if anyone has a strong recommendation they want to make, please do.
This is the book I like
http://www.parts4ar15.com/ar-15_accessories/product/Technical_Manual.html
Brownells has some good online videos too.
When you wear out the barrel on the 6920( or whatever you choose) switching to a middy will be straight forward.
There used to be a sticky around here, or a lengthy post on cleaning them. I don't clean mine regularly, just lube them. I've gone well over 1000 rounds w/o cleaning.
Bob
CaptainDooley
10-05-10, 12:07
If you decide to go midlength in the future it is far easier to sell the complete Colt upper and buy the configuration you want from BCM or another quality builder.
I had a standard 16" carbine upper from BCM for my first upper, when I decided I wanted a light-weight, middy upper, I just sold it and bought the one I wanted - it was much easier than mucking around with basically replacing the major part of the upper and a bunch of ancillary parts.
You might take a look at the Rock River Arms AR15 on sale. I'm delighted with mine. It's loaded with extra's without the extra cost.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=463
Fourbits
Get the Colt you will be very happy. I think most here would suggest you stay away from the RRA. Check out the chart Rob_S put together it will open your eyes.
Here is are two good links full of information
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60901
Vorpal_weapon
10-05-10, 13:41
rob_s is soooo correct - its the journey that's important. Options will change regularly as widgets are continually developed for the community of dedicated users (and also by marketing types). This is a natural consequence of the M4-type carbine being a living system that is still growing and evolving. My vision of the perfect carbine is likewise evolving, based on my use/experience/training and also as new options emerge (many of which I pan these days).
The modularity of the system is one of it's major pluses. DHart, you can always buy a middy upper later if it turns out that you really want or need it (that's how I got into Noveske). And, its perfectly reasonable to have more than one upper for a given lower.
Choices, choices, . . . as they say, "its like Barbie for men."
Don't overthink it. At this point, you probably can't know what your perfect carbine will be - whatever it is now, it will change with your use & experience. Start (sooner rather than later) with the best quality you can afford. And, remember . . . getting there is all the fun. ;)
GermanSynergy
10-05-10, 14:11
What a lucid and well written response. :rolleyes:
OP, get the Colt 6920 and don't look back.
Get something that will fit in your budget, plase don't just listen to the colt nutswingers and fanboys and mak your decision based on the purpose of the rifle, what will come with it, what you want to eventually do with it how many rounds a year, and also your budget.
I decided that I was waaay over my head in trying to CHOOSE an AR in just a few days. Especially because I'm the kind of guy that researches the heck out of stuff before I leap and there was just so much basic, general information that I didn't know about regarding AR's, so much BASIC stuff to learn before I could wrap my head around a lot of the concepts and features that most of you know so very well already. All my years of firearms experience with revolvers, lever rifles, shotguns, 1911's and Glocks never prepared me for the world of ARs!
So, in spite of the wonderful recommendations you guys have kindly offered to me here, in the end I decided I could not just buy a gun that was recommended before I really knew what it was all about and what everything else was all about. So I've been reading, studying, lurking, thinking, reading, lucid dreaming, thinking, lurking, considering, studying, comparing, thinking some more, lucid dreaming some more, more comparison, more lurking, more reading, pondering... for days and days and then daze... and I've FINALLY come to a basic point of general AR understanding that allows me to consider all the aspects you guys have raised and understand them well enough to make my own decision, rather than just buy something and then discover (after the fact) what I just bought. Once I have rifle in hand and have shot for awhile, I will have learned even more. And the learning will no doubt continue along with the addiction. I'll have the choice nailed down here very soon and will report back with the choice I made. It may not be much of a surprise to most of you, I'm sure. :cool: At least now I have enough basic knowledge to discuss the platform with some degree of understanding, rather than not knowing a BCG from a FSB. ;) (I had to download and keep the AR-15 acronym list constantly handy this last week... sheesh!)
This thread has now departed. When the OP makes his decision we'll revisit this.
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