View Full Version : Lead bullets + M&P, a few observations
MarshallDodge
10-03-10, 19:30
One of the reasons I purchased an M&P in 40 was because I reload and find a ton of 40 brass at my local range. I believe most of this brass is from law enforcement who practice there. Another reason is that I can purchase lead bullets for much cheaper than jacketed, and bullets without plating or jacketing do not mix well with 9mm. Sure it can be done but you have to keep the velocities down by reducing charges or increasing bullet weight.
Recently I found a low cost source of .401 cast lead bullets that are shooting very well with 5.5 grains of Ramshot Silhouette behind them. This load is mild, when I let a friend try it he said that if felt like a 9mm load in his M&P9c. Accuracy is good from my initial tests.
Two groups of 5-shots at 21 feet.
http://home.comcast.net/~train2live/gunstuff/mp40target2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~train2live/gunstuff/mp40target1.jpg
The bullet, a 155 grain lead round nose-
http://home.comcast.net/~train2live/gunstuff/40bullets2.jpg
I have not tried any 25 yard groups but up close it seems to do well on steel targets at that range. Cost is where the big gain is, .046 cents each, which brings the total loaded cost to .079 cents each or $79.00 per thousand when factoring in primer and powder costs.
What really impressed me, and I don't know if this is because of the bullet or the barrel on the M&P, but the barrel is staying super clean. Much cleaner than any other gun that I have shot lead bullets in before and not too far off from shooting a jacketed bullet.
This is after 500 rounds, the specks are powder residue-
http://home.comcast.net/~train2live/gunstuff/mpbarrel1.jpg
So where are you getting the bullets? :D
MarshallDodge
10-03-10, 22:46
So where are you getting the bullets? :D
OOPS! I forgot to mention that part.
The company is Bumble Bee Cast Bullet Co. in Cedar Fort, UT
801-367-5498
They don't have a website but you can email them at bumblebeebullets@aol.com
This load is mild, when I let a friend try it he said that if felt like a 9mm load in his M&P9c. Accuracy is good from my initial tests.
Actually, it felt more like shooting my full-size 9mm; my 9c is considerably snappier.
http://home.comcast.net/~train2live/gunstuff/mpbarrel1.jpg
Nice down-the-barrel shot. You'll have to show me how you did that.
This confirms that my next serious purchase should be a reloader.
$80/k is incredible. What a training multiplier.
is it real smoky with the lead bullets?
I was messing around with those black bullets (the particular brand i was using escapes me at the moment) in my glock 19, and they were plenty accurate and didn't lead the barrel, but they were very smoky. Lots of black residue inside the gun that i don't get with FMJ. Just wondering if your slower 40 cal loads in a cut rifled barrel are suitable for indoor use.
MarshallDodge
10-04-10, 12:18
Actually, it felt more like shooting my full-size 9mm; my 9c is considerably snappier.
Gotcha. You were shooting your 9c so I thought that is what you meant.
Nice down-the-barrel shot. You'll have to show me how you did that.
Thanks. I set the camera for macro, pointed the barrel at the sky, then angled it to reflect the sun off the interior.
MarshallDodge
10-04-10, 12:26
is it real smoky with the lead bullets?
I was messing around with those black bullets (the particular brand i was using escapes me at the moment) in my glock 19, and they were plenty accurate and didn't lead the barrel, but they were very smoky. Lots of black residue inside the gun that i don't get with FMJ. Just wondering if your slower 40 cal loads in a cut rifled barrel are suitable for indoor use.
Were they from these guys?
https://blackbulletsinternational.com/
There are some USPSA shooters that use them with success but I have never tried them.
I don't notice a lot of smoke from these loads indoors but about 90% of my shooting is outdoors. Next time I am indoors I will have to pay attention.
Gotcha. You were shooting your 9c so I thought that is what you meant.
I'll have to bring my full-size along next time we shoot together so we can compare.
Thanks. I set the camera for macro, pointed the barrel at the sky, then angled it to reflect the sun off the interior.
I'll have to see if my Canon S2IS can do as well as your camera obviously can.
Were they from these guys?
https://blackbulletsinternational.com/
There are some USPSA shooters that use them with success but I have never tried them.
I don't notice a lot of smoke from these loads indoors but about 90% of my shooting is outdoors. Next time I am indoors I will have to pay attention.
actually "precision bullets" brand is what i was using.
again, not bad, but with precision delta FMJ's going for 70 bucks/1000 there's really no reason to use them. (precision bullets are 67/1000 or something.. negligible price increase for genuine FMJ in this case)
the price you're paying for straight lead bullets is appealing though.... :cool:
actually "precision bullets" brand is what i was using.
again, not bad, but with precision delta FMJ's going for 70 bucks/1000 there's really no reason to use them. (precision bullets are 67/1000 or something.. negligible price increase for genuine FMJ in this case)
the price you're paying for straight lead bullets is appealing though.... :cool:
Precision Delta 165gr FMJ .40's are currently going for $103/1000
Precision Bullets 155gr RNF .40's are going for $215/3000, or $71.67/1000.
I can definitely see the price advantage for lead in that case.
As for 9mm, Precision Delta 115gr FMJ are $70/1000 while Precision Bullets 115gr RNF are $206/3500, or $58.85/1000... again, a worthwhile savings, if somewhat less than with .40.
MarshallDodge
10-04-10, 17:10
...while Precision Bullets 115gr RNF are $206/3500, or $58.85/1000... again, a worthwhile savings, if somewhat less than with .40.
That is a good price for jacketed.
I could not find RNF on their site. Are they jacketed? Does RNF mean Round Nose Flatpoint?
I could not find RNF on their site. Are they jacketed? Does RNF mean Round Nose Flatpoint?
I think I fouled up and put RNF when they're identified as FP. I'm guessing that RNF is Round Nose Flatpoint, while FP is Flat Point.
Precision Delta 165gr FMJ .40's are currently going for $103/1000
Precision Bullets 155gr RNF .40's are going for $215/3000, or $71.67/1000.
I can definitely see the price advantage for lead in that case.
As for 9mm, Precision Delta 115gr FMJ are $70/1000 while Precision Bullets 115gr RNF are $206/3500, or $58.85/1000... again, a worthwhile savings, if somewhat less than with .40.
pretty sure precision delta does give a few bucks off for 4k orders.. but i'd have to look...
the glocks put up with precision bullets... the smoke is pretty bad indoors though, and the P7 i don't think i need to get any dirtier when i shoot it.
how much are 9mm cast lead from your guy?
a traditionally rifled barrel for the G19 might be worthwhile....
pretty sure precision delta does give a few bucks off for 4k orders.. but i'd have to look...
Precision Delta's discounts start at the 6000-round level; it's $2 per thousand at that point.
how much are 9mm cast lead from your guy?
a traditionally rifled barrel for the G19 might be worthwhile....
I'll have to defer to MarshallDodge on that one; he reloads, I don't... yet.
MarshallDodge
10-04-10, 19:40
how much are 9mm cast lead from your guy?
a traditionally rifled barrel for the G19 might be worthwhile....
The price is about the same for 9mm and 155 gr. 40 bullets.
Like I said in my initial post, I don't like shooting lead in 9mm but there are guys who do it. Standard 9mm barrels seem to lead up pretty quick when I have tried it so I use jacketed bullets because they are still pretty cheap. The last batch I did with Precision Delta 124gr. bullets cost $105 per thousand.
The other reason I like 40 is that it has more energy when knocking down plates and pins in competition. Yes, you can load a 9mm hot enough to make it happen but a 180 grain 40 does it without even breathing hard.
One warning about reloading - You WILL NOT save money, you will only shoot more. :D
One warning about reloading - You WILL NOT save money, you will only shoot more. :D
oh i know.
but who doesn't want to shoot more? :D
In 9mm I found the price difference between lead and jacketed to only be like 1-2 cents a round or so. This was using the pricing in 4000 round increments from Missouri Bullet Company for lead and Montana Gold for the jacketed.
I load 9mm for Glock and M&P's. I stick with jacketed in 9mm simply for the fact that I dont want to have to keep more supplies around than are needed when its only going to save me maybe a penny a round.
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