View Full Version : .44mag itch. Help me scratch it.
Went to the range today with my buddy and we brought his dad's Taurus .44mag 4". Now I have an itch for a .44mag wheel gun. This wont be being used for any serious social use, just a range toy.
To quote somebody else "I dont know what I dont know about" about wheel guns.
I saw a S&W629 Performance Center edition in a gun rag last month and fell in love, however the price is a bit steep at like 1100.
I can get a new regular 629 4" barrel for around $675 locally.
I am not really a fan of Taurus simply due to their(taurus the company) history, but my buddies dads seemed pretty decent, maybe he lucked out.
I know Ruger makes a few blackhawk models in .44mag.
So any advice on which way to go would be great. Not really wanting to spend 1000 bucks+ since its just going to be a safe queen/range toy.
I would still treat it as an investment and spend wisely. Go with SW or Ruger. If you may carry it in the woods hunting and weight may be an issue-find a prelock SW Mountain. If you aren't worried about weight and like to shoot alot and heavy stuff, get the Ruger.
Just ask yourself what you want to use it for and don't end up still wanting something better and/or try to justify why you got the Yugo.
Cagemonkey
10-04-10, 19:44
I would still treat it as an investment and spend wisely. Go with SW or Ruger. If you may carry it in the woods hunting and weight may be an issue-find a prelock SW Mountain. If you aren't worried about weight and like to shoot alot and heavy stuff, get the Ruger.
Just ask yourself what you want to use it for and don't end up still wanting something better and/or try to justify why you got the Yugo.If Ruger would integrate the GP100/Super Redhawk grip frame into the regular Redhawk, I'd buy a .44 Mag Redhawk. My Dad has a .454 Super Redhawk and it kicks less than a .44 Redhawk.
I love my 2 Colt Anacondas in .44 mag., ones a 4" the other a 6". I've seen them on gunbroker for 800 and up.
Do not get a S&W with the internal key lock on the side next to the cylinder latch. You will never be able to resell it and the older 629s & 29s will always be in demand because of the stupid lock on the newer guns.
I recently purchased a Ruger Super Blackhawk 4". It wasn't high on my list, but it was high enough that I couldn't pass the deal I found. Put about 100 rds through it in a few range sessions, and I absolutely love it.
Test shoot any .44 mag wheel gun before you plunk down the cash. I had a Ruger Blackhawk, and when I shot it, it would pound my middle finger knuckle something fierce. Ended up selling it as it was just too painful to do any shooting >5-10 rounds. Super Blackhawk is better geometry to shoot. (Dessert Eagle is the easiest by far.)
1_click_off
10-04-10, 21:24
Colt Anaconda. 6" stainless steel. That would be my next 44mag.
I have a Dan Wesson with the interchangable barrels and some trigger work done. I never shoot the ported barrel bc it makes the recoil come almost straight back and is far more unpleasent to shoot.
I recently bought a really nice used 629 with a 5" barrel but I wish I'd had been more patient because for the $ I could have bought a new ruger redhawk. the trigger on the smith is really nice though.
DocCasualty
10-04-10, 21:48
The S&W 6" M29 I sold some years ago is the only gun I regret getting rid of. They shoot the magnum cartridge well but their price only keeps climbing. If your pocketbook can handle it, they remain a classic choice.
If you can find an "old" Ruger Vaquero in .44Mag, I think you would like it. I actually traded my M29 for the one I have when I got into CAS. Yes it is a bigger pistol than the newer Smiths but well made and has smoother lines than the Blackhawk IMHO. I mostly shoot .44Spl through it these days but it's always ready to digest the heavy loads.
Definitely decide what you want to do with it and don't discount a SA wheelgun. At first I thought I would miss not having the DA revolver but I don't at all.
another former Super Blackhawk 44 owner. yes it was awesome, but i could only fire about 20 rounds until my hand was killing me. granted i was always out firing other firearms at the same time. i sold it and bought a desert eagle. it shoots like a 45acp. I have tried a flavor of smith that wasn't too bad to shoot. a redhawk would be my second choice. the grip is much more friendly.
Bolt_Overide
10-04-10, 23:56
Get a pre-lock SW 629 3 inch with the unfluted cylender, its pure sex.
I've owned LOTS of .44s in the past, from Taurus, S&W, Ruger, Colt (and Desert Eagle!). Of all the .44s I've ever owned or shot, my S&W 629 Classic 5" (full underlug) was the most accurate, by a long shot.
To me, the 5" barrel is the perfect balance of performance and portability. Recoil is definitely stouter than the Ruger Super Redhawk or the Anaconda, but not punishing even with hot loaded 300 grain JHPs. But, the revolver was a lot lighter - making it easier to pack, and it balanced a lot more naturally in my hand.
If I were in the market for another .44, I wouldn't hesitate to pick another 5" 629...
Regards,
Kevin
In the double action revolver there is nothing as nice as a Smith and Wesson.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/GREY%20625/100_1575.jpg
If there is anything we can do to help you on your journey just let us know.
One thing for you to think about is how you will use the gun the best shooters in the world shoot Smith revolvers.
Alpha Sierra
10-05-10, 08:27
I agree with the 5" 629 Classic. I don't like the looks of the full underlug as much as I do the classic half lug, but its balance is excellent.
I would pay no mind to the lock. With or without, it makes no difference. If you do get one with the lock, it is dead easy to disable it in a reversible manner.
GitmoSmoke
10-05-10, 09:08
I'll be the 3rd to recommend the 5 inch model 629. I have the 6.5 inch and I keep thinking that the 5 inch would be so much more versatile, and I am considering having mine cut down. I'd install the weigand interchangable front sight assembly, have the cylinder cut for moon clips for a fast reload and get it magnaported. Being able to shoot everything from light 44 special target loads (200 gr @750 fps) to Randy Garretts super hard cast (310 gr @ 1325fps) and your ready for everything from grouse to grizzly.
http://www.jackweigand.com/interfs.html
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
http://www.magnaport.com/
Wow, thanks for all the replys. I guess I have some research to do on all these different models.
I got to find a range that has some for rent.
Like I said this gun is going to be a range toy, nothing more. I have other guns for social use that are better suited to the task.
I love my S&W revolvers and have enough buddies that own or have owned Taurus for me to know I'll never touch one.
Not really a fan of this guy but good read about lock failing on his 44 Mag
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html
I was thinking of removing the locks on my Smiths then read this. I don't carry my Smiths but if removed the lock still a chance they could be used against you.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=466935
"A search of caselaw databases under topics such as "magazine disconnector" are unlikely to turn up anything. Caselaw is made of appealed issues. Shootings with modified guns are rare. Moreover, courts tend to leave this sort of argument within the realm of attorney and trial judge discretion.
If the charge is manslaughter or reckless endangerment, or the lawsuit revolves around negligence, the accusing side is absolutely allowed to establish "continuing patterns of negligent or reckless behavior," and removing safety devices from lethal weapons lands square in that ballpark.
One may argue, as one poster did, that one removed the device because he thought it constituted faulty design. But this leaves whomever makes that argument open to the rejoinder, "Mr. Defendant, if you're such a gun expert that you know more about gun design than the engineers who designed the pistol in question, and know more about it than the gun factory that made it -- WHY DID YOU BUY A GUN YOU THOUGHT HAD A DEFECTIVE DESIGN IN THE FIRST PLACE?" That's gonna be a tough one to answer.
As noted, because most folks don't remove safety devices from handguns, this rarely comes up. The one case I've seen was one I was consulted on a number of years ago by Mark Seiden, the prominent Miami defense attorney. His client was charged with manslaughter relating to the accidental discharge of a factory stock Colt Commander. The discharge took place in an office, making the entire office area a crime scene, including the parking lot. The client's car was searched, and police recovered a Browning Hi-Power the defendant kept loaded in the vehicle. He had bought it used, the magazine disconnector safety already removed, and had left it in that condition. The assigned prosecutor made a huge deal over this, claiming that it showed a propensity to do reckless and negligent things with loaded weapons, even though that gun was in no way involved in the death in question.
Notice that even though the gun was in that condition when he bought it second hand, the State was prepared to argue that this was no excuse: the man was still using, for defensive purposes presumably, a lethal weapon with a safety device removed.
Mark got the guy a good plea deal, and has asked me to spare his client further humiliation by not mentioning his name. Out of respect to Mark, I've agreed to that stipulation. However, anyone can contact Attorney Mark Seiden in Miami, FL and confirm the nature of the case.
There are also, of course, several liability lawsuits against manufacturers arising out of accidental shootings which allege negligence in not producing the guns with a magazine disconnector. While I personally consider that another matter, it shows that "the absence of this device as an indicator of negligence" is a concept that's definitely on the collective radar screen of plaintiff's bar.
Cordially,
Mas "
Not willing to to take the chance myself.
Crow Hunter
10-05-10, 12:56
I used to have both a S&W 629 6"bbl and a Ruger Super Blackhawk 5.5" bbl.
I liked the Super Blackhawk alot more. It was alot more fun to shoot as long as I held low on the grip. When I fired it, it rolled up into my hand, absorbing most if not all of the recoil, but if I gripped it too high, the frame would come up and hit me at the base of my thumb. Damn did that hurt. It also had a machined edge there instead of rounding which didn't help any, I always thought about rounding that corner off and touching it up but never got around too it.
I didn't get hurt shooting the S&W, but it just wasn't as much fun, and if this is a range toy, you want fun.
I am leaning towards a 629. None of the ruger models "look" good to me, at least not as good as the 629's do.
I am checking pricing from a couple places for a 629 4" and a 629 Performance center edition. Dont think I want to go longer than 4".
Really digging the performance center 629, but I dont know if 2.6" of barrel is going to be enough or if the gun will simply be a handful to shoot(not that .44 mag isnt a handful to shoot anyway).
I have not shot others really a lot to compare with but I like the Colt Anaconda I have a bunch of time with. 8"
you really need to shoot the same load in several different guns
a Ruger Redhawk, a Blackhawk (bisley or standard grip) and a Smith all recoil and feel VERY different..
I tried a Redhawk when I first wanted a 44
then a Blackhawk with Bisley grip (MUCH better) which I hunted with for 2 years before selling it and getting a 6.5" Smith Performance center
I shoot 250g Kieth Style hardcasts at 1100 FPS and they are fun to shoot, very accuracte and will punch clean through a big hog, deer, elk, etc..
Lucky Strike
10-05-10, 14:11
I used to have both a S&W 629 6"bbl and a Ruger Super Blackhawk 5.5" bbl.
I liked the Super Blackhawk alot more. It was alot more fun to shoot as long as I held low on the grip. When I fired it, it rolled up into my hand, absorbing most if not all of the recoil, but if I gripped it too high, the frame would come up and hit me at the base of my thumb. Damn did that hurt. It also had a machined edge there instead of rounding which didn't help any, I always thought about rounding that corner off and touching it up but never got around too it.
I didn't get hurt shooting the S&W, but it just wasn't as much fun, and if this is a range toy, you want fun.
That's a good point to make....a lot of people don't know that with the classic colt SA shaped grip you're supposed to roll the gun up. Works wonders with recoil
Well there is really great advice here I own several 44 and reload. Here is my take
Ruger Redhawk: Can handle anything out there and be be found for a great price.
Ruger Super Blackhawk: Excellent gun, super used price and able to handle all loads I would recommend a Bisley frame if using hot 44 magnum loads.
S&W Super but over time will take a beating with full magnum loads. Excellent value, Stay away from "the lock" I have never owned one and do not plan to
These are the only one I have any experience with as far as the other manufactureres I do not know, I would have no problem with a Colt except they tend to be higher than Ruger or S&W
Alpha Sierra
10-05-10, 17:03
I love my S&W revolvers and have enough buddies that own or have owned Taurus for me to know I'll never touch one.
Not really a fan of this guy but good read about lock failing on his 44 Mag
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html
I was thinking of removing the locks on my Smiths then read this. I don't carry my Smiths but if removed the lock still a chance they could be used against you.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=466935
"A search of caselaw databases under topics such as "magazine disconnector" are unlikely to turn up anything. Caselaw is made of appealed issues. Shootings with modified guns are rare. Moreover, courts tend to leave this sort of argument within the realm of attorney and trial judge discretion.
If the charge is manslaughter or reckless endangerment, or the lawsuit revolves around negligence, the accusing side is absolutely allowed to establish "continuing patterns of negligent or reckless behavior," and removing safety devices from lethal weapons lands square in that ballpark.
One may argue, as one poster did, that one removed the device because he thought it constituted faulty design. But this leaves whomever makes that argument open to the rejoinder, "Mr. Defendant, if you're such a gun expert that you know more about gun design than the engineers who designed the pistol in question, and know more about it than the gun factory that made it -- WHY DID YOU BUY A GUN YOU THOUGHT HAD A DEFECTIVE DESIGN IN THE FIRST PLACE?" That's gonna be a tough one to answer.
As noted, because most folks don't remove safety devices from handguns, this rarely comes up. The one case I've seen was one I was consulted on a number of years ago by Mark Seiden, the prominent Miami defense attorney. His client was charged with manslaughter relating to the accidental discharge of a factory stock Colt Commander. The discharge took place in an office, making the entire office area a crime scene, including the parking lot. The client's car was searched, and police recovered a Browning Hi-Power the defendant kept loaded in the vehicle. He had bought it used, the magazine disconnector safety already removed, and had left it in that condition. The assigned prosecutor made a huge deal over this, claiming that it showed a propensity to do reckless and negligent things with loaded weapons, even though that gun was in no way involved in the death in question.
Notice that even though the gun was in that condition when he bought it second hand, the State was prepared to argue that this was no excuse: the man was still using, for defensive purposes presumably, a lethal weapon with a safety device removed.
Mark got the guy a good plea deal, and has asked me to spare his client further humiliation by not mentioning his name. Out of respect to Mark, I've agreed to that stipulation. However, anyone can contact Attorney Mark Seiden in Miami, FL and confirm the nature of the case.
There are also, of course, several liability lawsuits against manufacturers arising out of accidental shootings which allege negligence in not producing the guns with a magazine disconnector. While I personally consider that another matter, it shows that "the absence of this device as an indicator of negligence" is a concept that's definitely on the collective radar screen of plaintiff's bar.
Cordially,
Mas "
Not willing to to take the chance myself.
Ayoob's argument is beyond weak.
The S&W revolver lock is a STORAGE lock. It is SUPPOSED to be UNLOCKED when the pistol is in use.
Therefore removing it on a permanent basis does nothing to render the handgun any more likely to discharge negligently while IN USE.
The storage part is handled quite nicely as with any other handgun.
Alpha Sierra
10-05-10, 17:05
I am checking pricing from a couple places for a 629 4" and a 629 Performance center edition. Dont think I want to go longer than 4".
Really digging the performance center 629, but I dont know if 2.6" of barrel is going to be enough or if the gun will simply be a handful to shoot(not that .44 mag isnt a handful to shoot anyway).
Really do shop for a Mountain Gun. You will not regret it.
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp290/JRossy/guns/DSC00260.jpg
Really do shop for a Mountain Gun. You will not regret it.
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp290/JRossy/guns/DSC00260.jpg
That looks about like what I want.
Cabelas has them new.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Handguns/Revolvers-Miscellaneous|/pc/104792580/c/105526980/sc/105527880/Smith-Wesson-629-Outfitter-Series-Centerfire-Revolvers/706586.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-handguns-revolvers-miscellaneous%2Fsmith-wesson%2F_%2FN-1102337%2B4294963672%2FNe-4294963672%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105527880%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU
Is that about the same thing as the original mountain guns?
Alpha Sierra
10-05-10, 19:11
Looks like it, with some additional engraving.
Search Gunbroker.com. You will find stainless and blued 44 Magnum MGs
Look for a older Per Lock 629 Classic DX 6". They are the Caddy of the .44s. I tried tha post lock 629 liteweight and the Dam thing locked up on me after 2 shots. Had to send it back to Smith, they replaced it with a brandnew one which got traded on in on a Used 4" 629.
Dave
Ayoob's argument is beyond weak.
The S&W revolver lock is a STORAGE lock. It is SUPPOSED to be UNLOCKED when the pistol is in use.
Therefore removing it on a permanent basis does nothing to render the handgun any more likely to discharge negligently while IN USE.
The storage part is handled quite nicely as with any other handgun.
I just wanted to let the OP know incase he didn't already before he spent money on a S&W with ILS and was disappointed to find out later. As far as disabling the lock it's a personal choice and do as you please. I completely agree with you but when in court common sense is checked at the door and the juror (good chance mostly non gun people) decides your fate. I see you went pre lock yourself.
Here is another good article that I should of added earlier where he is talking about what he decided to do on his Smith.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2009/09/03/internal-gun-locks/
"I did not remove the internal lock, for the simple reason that I’ve seen a prosecutor raise hell about a deactivated safety device when trying to establish the element of recklessness that is a key ingredient in a manslaughter conviction. “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defendant was so reckless that he DEACTIVATED A SAFETY DEVICE ON A LETHAL WEAPON, and so arrogant that he thought he knew more about the gun than the factory that made it!” That’s a mountain I’d rather not have to climb in court, nor debate in front of twelve jurors selected in part by opposing counsel for their lack of knowledge of firearms."
Alpha Sierra
10-06-10, 12:06
The recklessness argument would have some merit if S&W hadn't started making revolvers without locks again and if all S&W semi autos came with the lock.
I have two S&Ws with the lock. Both have had it disabled. I worry not one bit about civil or criminal liability when I do carry either of them.
Suwannee Tim
10-06-10, 16:04
This is something I know a little about. The ergonomics of the Ruger Super Redhawk are a perfect compromise for double action and single action shooting. The ergonomics of the SR is identical to the GP100 which is an advantage if you want both.. Handle a SR, if it feels as good to you as it does to me, get it. With hard kicking revolvers a good feel in the hand is important. The main disadvantage of the SR is the somewhat higher weight. The grip is too large on a 29 or 629 for good DA shooting. Don't know about a Taurus, don't care about a Taurus, I have read and heard so many horror stories I have no interest in one
Not to be the contrarian, but I'm a fan of the classic S&W M29 N-frame. Had a 629 for years in Alaska, but all things considered I like the originals best. Now the only one I have is a nickle 4" 29-2.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c36/Ranger325/29-2I.jpg
Good luck in your quest!!
Why do people keep commenting on the legal liabilities of lock or disabling the lock or what ever. This gun, for my purposes, will never be used in a social occasion. It will never be in my bedside safe, it will be in my safe in my basement(and if the fight makes it down there, I am grabbing an AR anyway). It will most likely never get anything shot through it but cast lead loads. This is going to be a fun range toy. If I find a decent priced and condition used gun without a lock, I will get it. If I have to get a new one to get what I want and it has a lock, I will get it and probably disable the lock. I am not worried one bit about liabilities in a fun gun.
Got the price on the performance center 629. I can get it for 750(plus shipping and FFL fees so really around 800). I think I am going to go this route but I will have to wait until after the first of the year to order it.
LonghunterCO
10-20-10, 10:51
In the double action revolver there is nothing as nice as a Smith and Wesson.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/GREY%20625/100_1575.jpg
If there is anything we can do to help you on your journey just let us know.
One thing for you to think about is how you will use the gun the best shooters in the world shoot Smith revolvers.
That looks like a M25 and not a M29. Is it? Not to derail the thread but I would love the S&W Mountain in .45LC. If you are a reloader have you considered the .45 LC?
-Reguardless that is a great looking revolver.
That looks like a M25 and not a M29. Is it? Not to derail the thread but I would love the S&W Mountain in .45LC. If you are a reloader have you considered the .45 LC?
-Reguardless that is a great looking revolver.
Thanks
It is a 625 sorry for the confusion it was my fault.
This is a 629 that we just did.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2730.jpg
[QUOTE=kjdoski;776416]I've owned LOTS of .44s in the past, from Taurus, S&W, Ruger, Colt (and Desert Eagle!). Of all the .44s I've ever owned or shot, my S&W 629 Classic 5" (full underlug) was the most accurate, by a long shot.
To me, the 5" barrel is the perfect balance of performance and portability. Recoil is definitely stouter than the Ruger Super Redhawk or the Anaconda, but not punishing even with hot loaded 300 grain JHPs. But, the revolver was a lot lighter - making it easier to pack, and it balanced a lot more naturally in my hand.
[QUOTE]
Hallelujah Brother! I've had most of the .44s ever made, and the 5", full underlug 629 was the best of them. I can't remember what whiz-bang, gotta-have-it gun I traded it for, but I miss it badly. Don't buy one with the locking mechanism, though - if they even make one.
Alpha Sierra
10-21-10, 08:52
Don't buy one with the locking mechanism, though
Why not?
The only .44 mag I have ever had experience with is the Super Redhawk 9 1/2" barrel, it is a nice shooting gun, doesn't recoil too bad, and the longer bbl helps balance it out very well. The Hogue grips on it help alot too. The Super Redhawk is built like a tank, I dont know how you could ever break it in the woods.
I would go with the Ruger Redhawk if you intend on using a lot of heavy loads. I personally love Smith model 29. They do not tolerate a lot of heavy loads, but I love the balance of the weapon in my hand.
Here is a pic of my Model 29-3 that I carried off-duty. I also used it many times in in the S.F. PDs Mike O'Brian shooting match. :)
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv166/Samcro1_2009/a00002002.jpg
LonghunterCO
10-22-10, 10:31
Thanks
It is a 625 sorry for the confusion it was my fault.
This is a 629 that we just did.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2730.jpg
Wow. That is nice too. What work did you do to that one?
Wow. That is nice too. What work did you do to that one?
We did this.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/smith%20add/SWPackAdcolor.jpg
Plus grips and sights.
If you have not bought a .44 mag yet, do not be afraid to look at Taurus, again. I am going to get a lot of slack for this, but the heck with it. Back in the day, S & W and Taurus were owned by the same company. It is why so many Smiths look like Tauruses. Now you have a lot of belly achers who have purchased a Taurus, not knowing a lot about guns, and then having problems with them. Why so many complaints? Taurus has cornered the market in gun sales, and yes, there will be more issues since they are out selling everyone else ten to one. Most of these buyers are inexperienced gun people. Why do you think Danica tears up her stock car everytime she races it. She can't drive a stock car, yet. I own 14 Taurus hand guns, (a .44 mag. Tracker revolver included) and they are all great shooting guns, and they get used a lot. The Tracker was shaving bullets out of the box, but it was repaired at no cost to me, no questions asked, and the only one I've had to send in (42 days there and back). Some smooth talking got them to send Fed. Ex to my house (by appointment) to pick it up and it cost me nothing to ship to and from. This revolver is only used at the range, and it is used a lot (It is also in a quaint little hiding spot in my home as we have some breakins in my area from time to time). Half of my county has shot this revolver, and it still looks and shoots perfect, for 58% of the price of a Smith or Ruger. Dude, if it is me, and I want some resale value, and better corrosion resistance, if I get lazy that is, then I am getting the Smith or Ruger. If it is going to sit in my basement safe until I go to the range, then it is a no brainer. The Taurus. 44 ammo ain't cheap either, and the difference in price will buy you quite a few rounds. The ported 4" barrel leaves just enough fun with out killing your hands and wrists. My 16 year old twin daughters love shooting it. For you guys that know a lot about guns and have problems with a Taurus you bought, kindly disregard this letter.
Happy shooting!
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