Rails: Daniel Defense vs LaRue [Archive]

Hoplophile

07-17-07, 00:32

Larue has an advantage in strength to the locking ring design and a small price advantage. Daniel Defense is lighter weight and has a narrower width which some people prefer. They also have some designs with a cutout for the front fixed front sight if you're looking for such a thing.

You can't go wrong with either.

rob_s

07-17-07, 04:24

Daniel Defense... ...has a narrower width which some people prefer.

Actually, that's not exactly true. The difference in width is, IIRC, less than 1/10th of an inch. The DD is taller though, which has the effect of making it feel narrower.

Robb Jensen

07-17-07, 05:28

I asked a similar question not to long ago here is the thread;)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5693

Bunch of good info in that thread but a shaved FSB will fit under a LaRue and DD Lite Rail. You just have to get it small enough. I did this one and mounted it under a 10" LaRue. I finished the barrel and gas block with satin Moly KG GunKote.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/9570e14d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/12103eab.jpg

This is another upper I'm assembling for a friend where I've 'shaved' the FSB. This is a LMT barrel and I'll be installing a ARES piston conversion kit on it. I'm going thread the gas tube roll pin hole in the gas block and spigot and use some red Loc-Tite or Rocksett on it. Troy will be making him a custom rail to fit over it (it'll be upside down so that the top comes off not the bottom. I think he's getting a 12" rail. I finished the gas block and barrel with flat black Norrells.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/881e696c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/adfe3166.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/virginiaarmspics/dd656eec.jpg

MaceWindu

07-17-07, 10:04

You can't go wrong with either.

Agreed! :D

Mace

AR15barrels

07-17-07, 11:07

I seem to see more LaRue rails in use on custom M4's. Is there any reason or notable difference between these two manufacturer's? Could this be a price issue?

Thanks

IC

They generally run $25 difference in price for similar models, ex: LaRue 7.0 vs DD 7.0 M4.
The DD come with three ladder style rail covers.
You have to buy those seperate for the LaRue.
If you consider the ladders as a $9 each item, then the prices are identical.
Daniel defense are smoother on the edges, to the point that you almost don't NEED the included covers when using them with bare hands.
Seems like they tumble them longer.
LaRue are a little sharper, enough that you would want covers if you don't wear gloves.
Daniel Defense are welded together.
LaRue are a mechanical junction.

Flip a coin.
Both are excellent.

This Guy

07-17-07, 20:14

The Larue rails have a QD sling mount built in.

SuicideHz

07-17-07, 22:44

They generally run $25 difference in price for similar models, ex: LaRue 7.0 vs DD 7.0 M4.
The DD come with three ladder style rail covers.
You have to buy those seperate for the LaRue.
If you consider the ladders as a $9 each item, then the prices are identical.
Daniel defense are smoother on the edges, to the point that you almost don't NEED the included covers when using them with bare hands.
Seems like they tumble them longer.
LaRue are a little sharper, enough that you would want covers if you don't wear gloves.
Daniel Defense are welded together.
LaRue are a mechanical junction.

Flip a coin.
Both are excellent.

Best way I've seen to get around the usual problems with trying to point out that particular difference!

rob_s

07-18-07, 04:23

The Larue rails have a QD sling mount built in.

I do wish that the DD had this as well. I see that the new rails Noveske is using have two mounts which I think is good as well. As it is I attach an MI sling loop to my DD rail and it works out well.

PalmerB

07-18-07, 09:17

Larue also sells 3 Tango Down Rail Covers for $15 with the rail purchase. Larue has been known to include a Field Survival Device tool and Larue hat with orders.

davemcdonald

07-18-07, 11:43

My personal preference is Larue. (1)I like the Uncle Mike’s quick detach placement on the rail, (2)they are made in Texas and (3)I like Mike Early.

DD rails are equal in quality and the edges feel more melted,as stated earlier they appear taller/slender. I mounted a Lite rail on a LMT 16in with SOPMOD and I feel it was the best balanced and most “comfortable” AR that I have ever put my hands on.

The DD M4 rails and Mk18 RISII rails in “Flat Dark Chocolate” should start coming out about now. Same DD quality only in Crane approved chocolate brown color.

Haji

07-18-07, 12:43

My preference is Daniel Defense, because mine was given to me, Jay Duncan is a friend of mine, and...uh...they're in Georgia. I had to come up with a third reason, didn't I? :D

Bottom line is, both are excellent pieces of gear and one cannot go wrong with either one. I've yet to see someone break a rail system in normal use, so the big difference in the rails on the market comes down to how closely they hold to the Picatinny standard and how "true" they are. If I had to choose again, I'd still go with DD because they're lighter, but I certainly wouldn't feel I had anything less than top of the line equipment if that rail was a La Rue.

Paulinski

07-18-07, 13:34

Although I prefer Daniel Defense rails I find LaRue equally impressive.

rob_s

07-18-07, 15:27

One other thing to keep in mind is that Brownells carries DD, so if you have dealer or LE pricing through them you can get their standard stuff at a discount.

Paulinski

07-18-07, 15:30

One other thing to keep in mind is that Brownells carries DD, so if you have dealer or LE pricing through them you can get their standard stuff at a discount.

Very limited selection on the rails though.

rob_s

07-18-07, 15:45

Very limited selection on the rails though.

I dunno, they have the M4 7.0 and 12.0, 9.5 FSP and 12.5 FSP, as well as the Lite Rail 7.0, plus if you call Brownells does do special orders.

Paulinski

07-18-07, 16:22

Ohh I thought they only have 7.0 and 12.0 I did see 9.5 FSP. (My fav rail)

davemcdonald

07-18-07, 18:36

I found out today that Mike is no longer at LT and the Crane version of Flat Dark Earth is growing on me so I am back to being a fence sitter between LT and DD. They are both top shelf rail systems.

The guys over at ARFCOM are going to have a melt down when they find out what Crane calls "Flat Dark Earth".

olds442tyguy

07-18-07, 18:51

I'd go with the DD Lite. Anti rotation, solid like a rock, and "monolithic" to boot. The guys at DD are some of the nicest guys you'll ever talk to, and they help support and participate here as well.

AR15barrels

07-19-07, 01:19

I'd go with the DD Lite. Anti rotation, solid like a rock, and "monolithic" to boot.

Monolithic "look" only.
Only an MRP is truly monolithic.
Anything made from multiple pieces is, by definition, NOT truly monolithic so you can't go spanning the gap with an optic or moving it out onto the handguard's top rail.

conspiro agnew

07-19-07, 01:58

Monolithic "look" only.
Only an MRP is truly monolithic.
Anything made from multiple pieces is, by definition, NOT truly monolithic so you can't go spanning the gap with an optic or moving it out onto the handguard's top rail.

I've always wondered but never thought to ask, why is that, exactly? It's probably obvious to most. I would assume it would be due to the potential to ship POI since the optic would be mounted on the two pieces and if the rail shifted it would affect it that way. But I could be wrong.

Thanks in advance for your input.

AR15barrels

07-19-07, 10:52

I've always wondered but never thought to ask, why is that, exactly? It's probably obvious to most. I would assume it would be due to the potential to ship POI since the optic would be mounted on the two pieces and if the rail shifted it would affect it that way. But I could be wrong.

Thanks in advance for your input.

It's two pieces with a junction.
Junction's are flex points.
Also, the rail profiles may not match and the heights can be different.
That's why you don't "span" the gap.

olds442tyguy

07-19-07, 13:52

Monolithic "look" only.
Hence my quotations around monolithic. I'd be interested to see testing of just how bad the zero variance is under different stress angles though. I'm not going to run out and pretend it really is monolithic, but it'd be interesting to say the least to see just how solid the Lite rail locks up.

Only an MRP is truly monolithic.
Don't forget the Vltor VIS.

Robb Jensen

07-19-07, 14:12

Don't forget the Vltor VIS.

The receiver and the rail are two different pieces on the VIS. It's made even so that there isn't one wide portion on it's continuous top rail. That said the VIS is an awesome and very strong and rigid rail & receiver. The two are bonded together. Probably using some space age adhesive. I plan to buy one eventually.

olds442tyguy

07-19-07, 14:28

The receiver and the rail are two different pieces on the VIS. It's made even so that there isn't one wide portion on it's continuous top rail. That said the VIS is an awesome and very strong and rigid rail & receiver. The two are bonded together. Probably using some space age adhesive. I plan to buy one eventually.
But wouldn't it technically be monolithic since the receiver and rail are permanently bonded together to be one piece?

Haji

07-19-07, 14:37

The two are bonded together. Probably using some space age adhesive. I plan to buy one eventually.
If you look very closely, and have light at the right angle, you can see the pins on the flats of the junction. The pins are comparatively huge, and really well blended. I had a guy from Group in the store who had an extensive background in machining. He pointed it out, or I probably never would have seen it.

has anyone seen a rail of the La Rue or Daniel Defense type rail (or any other "good" rail for that matter) fail at the attachment point? If so, what happened? I have a hard time seeing how it could happen.

Robb Jensen

07-19-07, 14:44

If you look very closely, and have light at the right angle, you can see the pins on the flats of the junction. The pins are comparatively huge, and really well blended. I had a guy from Group in the store who had an extensive background in machining. He pointed it out, or I probably never would have seen it.

has anyone seen a rail of the La Rue or Daniel Defense type rail (or any other "good" rail for that matter) fail at the attachment point? If so, what happened? I have a hard time seeing how it could happen.

I'm off today, but damn I missed it too, I could see the seam but I'll have too look again too, we have a carbine length one at work. That's good to know.

Haji

07-19-07, 15:28

Look where the arrow is pointing. I think there's one underneath, too, but I don't have a VIS in front of me to check.
http://images25.fotki.com/v949/photos/9/98493/921251/VISPins-vi.jpg
MM's pics are pretty dang great.

militarymoron

07-19-07, 16:20

the VIS doesn't use pins or adhesives - that's a guarrantee. they've used three different processes on the VIS - salt dip brazing, heli-arc welding, and friction stir welding and are narrowing it down to one. from their testing, they found that the joint area is stronger/stiffer than the rail or receiver portions.
haji, you were probably looking at one of the heli-arc welded VIS's and could see a faint outline of the welds.

conspiro agnew

07-19-07, 18:32

Probably a dumb question, but why would VLTOR not just make the VIS out of one piece like the MRP? They could still have the bottom rail seperate from the top. Is it just a matter of cost or tooling?

Robb Jensen

07-19-07, 18:42

Probably a dumb question, but why would VLTOR not just make the VIS out of one piece like the MRP? They could still have the bottom rail seperate from the top. Is it just a matter of cost or tooling?

You couldn't make it truly one piece and still use standard AR barrels.

Haji

07-19-07, 19:33

Look at how many complex angles there are in that thing. That'd be a nightmare to machine from a single billet, if it could even be done. It'd have a retail price of just short of eleventy billion dollars.

MM, you're probably right, but I think I should contact them to send me one to inspect just to be sure.:D

militarymoron

07-19-07, 20:05

Probably a dumb question, but why would VLTOR not just make the VIS out of one piece like the MRP?

it's because you wouldn't (easily) be able to cut the outside threads of the receiver for the barrel nut to use the standard barrels. the MRP just has that hole that the proprietary barrel fits into.

haji - or you could just call 'em :p

conspiro agnew

07-19-07, 22:06

it's because you wouldn't (easily) be able to cut the outside threads of the receiver for the barrel nut to use the standard barrels. the MRP just has that hole that the proprietary barrel fits into.

Good point, I forgot about that little detail.