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mizer67
10-09-10, 15:15
I'm going to be taking instruction from a High Master in service rifle who uses my local range, as I would like to make it to Perry.

I currently have a BCM A4 with a decent, legal FCG that I could convert for service rifle to start.

Anyone shoot service rifle that can comment on what's a good setup to start with? Will my BCM with a good, legal, free float tube hang in there, or should I look at something like a WOA upper on my A2-stocked lower?

JFArmsCo
10-09-10, 15:28
I believe for service rifle Stainless Steel match barrels are allowed. if thats the case and your looking for a new rifle, look at BCM SS410 20in barrels. BCM SS410 barrels are extremely accurate.

danpass
10-09-10, 18:24
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45749


it has to look like this

no ambi safety, no ambi mag release, nothing that changes the appearance from what's below (barrel color, bayo lug, flashider and 20" A4 upper with proper carry handle not factored into cosmetics. An A1 stock can be used. Must use A2 pistol grip):


http://www.danpassaro.com/img/s7/v7/p34502222.jpg





Start at page 21: http://www.odcmp.com/competitions/rulebook.pdf








.

mizer67
10-09-10, 20:06
Yes, thanks for the replies. I've read all the rules and know the modifications that are, and are not allowed.

I was hoping someone that shoots highpower could comment on and whether I could make my existing equipment competitive enough for a beginner. I figure if that could be done, then I could rebarrel with a Kreiger and change the upper to an A2 when I burn up the original GI barrel and actually get good enough to hang with the big boys.

I know I can get an A4 carry handle that will shoot to 600m, and I can free-float the barrel on my BCM 20" A4 and replace the sights with NM aperatures and front blade. It will all be legal.

However, I don't want to put money into the BCM to make it a highpower gun if it will not be competitive.

danpass
10-09-10, 22:32
If you can hold 1.5MOA with a sling but your gear shoots 2.0MOA then you need better gear.


I'm guessing you'll probably hold 2.5-3MOA so the BCM should do fine.



As a side note I shot a 96/100 in the slow prone at 200yds at the Camp Perry Rifle Small Arms Firing School. The ten ring is 7 inches. At 200yds that makes it 3.3MOA.

We were using rack grade M16s with web slings, no free float, heavy triggers, etc.

But we were using factory Hornady 75 Match.

So the ammo is the greater contributor to a gear setup than the rifle.

120mm
10-09-10, 22:56
I coached 3P for a couple years, and only have second-hand knowledge of HP, but nearly all the folks I talked to second the above post.

Start basic, and get to where you can shoot good enough to upgrade your rifle.

taliv
10-13-10, 13:51
I don't know how accurate your BCM is, and to be honest, I don't know mine either since i haven't shot any of my BCM for groups...

But when I shot the M16 leg match at SAFS, I shot a 357-3x (89%) and came in 28th out of 459. (In the M16 match, they issue everyone rack grade rifles. Nobody gets a krieger barrel.) The top score was a 381-6x. (95%)

By way of comparison, if I shot 89% in the national trophy match, I would have placed 529th out of 891 shooters counting only non-distinguished. (829th out of 1202 counting all shooters), and the match winner would have placed 97th. (counting only non-distinguished shooters. 269th counting all shooters)

So yeah. Equipment matters. Though I agree skills are more important, and so is mindset.

I shot my first season with a stock RRA NM and had WOA rebarrel with a "house" wilson barrel about two years before I went Distinguished.

However, now that the rules allow SR-25s in "service rifle" and everyone is going to them... you might want to think about that. Very pricey, but much more forgiving in the wind

danpass
10-13-10, 15:10
..................
However, now that the rules allow SR-25s in "service rifle" and everyone is going to them...
link?
I thought it was just for the Match category

Congrats on DR :D

taliv
10-13-10, 15:26
here's the NRA "service rifle" rulebook
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-w03.pdf

3.1(d)
U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62 mm M-110 series - In all courses of fire and in all positions the standard 20 round
box magazine or a reduced capacity magazine of the same external dimensions will be attached. The
flash suppressor may be removed or the rifle may be manufactured without a flash suppressor. Barrel
length may not exceed 20 inches, as measured to the end of the rifling in the barrel. The front sling swivel
must be attached to the end of the handguard, and must remain in the 6 o’clock position no more than 1/2
inche from its original location. The sights must be of the standard design found on the M-16 series of
firearms. Rear sight windage and elevation adjustments may be modified to allow finer adjustments.
Plastic covers may be used on the mounting rails on the handguard.

i don't have the cmp rules handy

danpass
10-13-10, 16:06
ah, ok NRA.

I've been focused on CMP rules (still just M16, M14/M1A and Garand for Service Rifle)

taliv
10-13-10, 22:59
you could be right. I didn't get to go to perry this year. I heard the entire USAMU was shooting M110s but maybe that was just NRA week.

I briefly scanned the CMP rules for '10 and didn't find any mention of M110. so i don't know. i'll ask around though

agr1279
10-14-10, 07:44
The M-110 will probaly not be CMP legal for a while if ever. That platform was designed for sniper use which translates to Palma type shooting.

As far as advice go work with the HM and he will set you straight with what you need. Sometimes it is better to lay eyes on something than to say what you need w/o seeing it.

Dan

mizer67
10-14-10, 18:50
I don't know how accurate your BCM is, and to be honest, I don't know mine either since i haven't shot any of my BCM for groups...

But when I shot the M16 leg match at SAFS, I shot a 357-3x (89%) and came in 28th out of 459. (In the M16 match, they issue everyone rack grade rifles. Nobody gets a krieger barrel.) The top score was a 381-6x. (95%)

By way of comparison, if I shot 89% in the national trophy match, I would have placed 529th out of 891 shooters counting only non-distinguished. (829th out of 1202 counting all shooters), and the match winner would have placed 97th. (counting only non-distinguished shooters. 269th counting all shooters)

So yeah. Equipment matters. Though I agree skills are more important, and so is mindset.

I shot my first season with a stock RRA NM and had WOA rebarrel with a "house" wilson barrel about two years before I went Distinguished.

However, now that the rules allow SR-25s in "service rifle" and everyone is going to them... you might want to think about that. Very pricey, but much more forgiving in the wind

Thanks. That's the type of info. I was looking for. I was speaking of CMP rules, however. Sorry for not clarifying.

taliv
10-14-10, 23:23
for no good reason, looking at that another way...

you might say 22% of the shooters at camp perry shot better than a rack grade is capable of shooting. (figuring 268 of 1202 people shot better than the highest score in the rack-grade match).

which is not to say that a match-grade rifle wouldn't have improved the scores of the other 78% (as it definitely would)


it would be interesting to see some data around component upgrades. I mean, I'd love to put a match trigger in the M16s next year, then remove it and put match sights the following year, then remove them and put a match barrel the 3rd year.

My bet is most improvement would be from sights, barrel, trigger, in that order. but who knows?

tenpointer
10-20-10, 16:22
I have a BCM 20" A4 upper. Great barrel with good accuracy for a chrome lined barrel, but to be competitive in service rifle you need a legal free float tube, you'll want an A2 upper with pinned sights, lead weight in the butt stock, etc. The white oak armament upper in the end will be close to what you'll try to turn your Bravo into. I use my bravo 20" on my service match lower with Geissele service match trigger.