View Full Version : On the M&P series...
I have quite a few firearms buffs at my workplace, and we get into discussions about "A vs B". Regarding the M&P series, I've talked to a couple guys who say that they'll definitely buy one "when all the bugs are worked out".
Not having any personal experience with the M&P, is this gun still a work in progress or have most of the issues been ironed out?
tell them it's time. all the bugs have been worked out...
G34Shooter
10-12-10, 10:53
I thing most of the major kinks have been ironed out, though IMO it needs trigger work (Apex Tactical's DCAEK is my choice). Here's my perspective on the M&P so far:
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=25202
And a review of my FS9 from my friend who is more a Glock/1911 guy
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/78a30cc7.jpg
http://thepackingrat.net/2010/10/09/smith-wesson-mp-9mm-a-transformational-overview/
I gotta say, after many years with my good ol' P229 .40, I was looking for something that was a little cheaper to shoot in courses and 3-gun. A game gun. I've never cared for the Glocks (no offense meant). I hadnt had an opportunity to shoot an M&P, but I bought a 9L just to see if I'd like it. I was fully prepared not to like the gun. First trip to the range, I felt justified in my suspicion as I noticed I was pulling shots to the right and shot it fairly poorly. I figured "in for a penny..." and installed a DCAEK. Holy schnickies....I was shocked at how well I could knock those plates down. I'm still suspicious of the construction, but I don't think I've ever shot a handgun consistently as well as I shoot this thing now, and I have to say it's been totally reliable in about 2000 rounds.
http://ic2.pbase.com/g1/60/230460/2/129335587.jUaqv3cf.jpg
I've had my M&P45 3 months now and have close to 2000 rounds thru it and untold dry fires without snap caps.
I had my first failure last night during an IDPA match where a round failed to fire. It was the first round of the match and after clearing that round I had no other problems over the next 76 rounds fired. I was firing my own 200 grain LSWC reloads. Upon inspection of the round the primer hit was WaYYYYYY off center. All the other brass recovered had the primers center punched perfectly. I have yet to figure out why that primer strike was so out of character.
My competition results since I got this gun has gone up appreciably.
I have to say I love this platform & would recommend it to anyone.
GermanSynergy
10-12-10, 12:26
tell them it's time. all the bugs have been worked out...
Yes... It's time, mkay.....:big_boss:
John_Wayne777
10-12-10, 13:24
I have quite a few firearms buffs at my workplace, and we get into discussions about "A vs B". Regarding the M&P series, I've talked to a couple guys who say that they'll definitely buy one "when all the bugs are worked out".
Not having any personal experience with the M&P, is this gun still a work in progress or have most of the issues been ironed out?
Here's the thing about handguns in the modern market: There is never a time when all the bugs have been worked out of every product. I'm personally a fan of the M&P and I own several, but they are not on par with 3rd generation 9mm Glocks in terms of reliability and absence of issues. This does not mean that they are bad guns or a bad risk for your average purchaser, just that the odds of purchasing one that has issues is higher than we might like. When you buy one that works, it tends to work splendidly. When you buy one that has issues generally they are evident fairly early on and S&W is usually good about fixing the problem even if it may take 2 trips to get it done in the extreme cases.
I think it's most accurate to say that while they are not completely bug free, it's highly unlikely that they're going to become completely bug free anytime in the near future. They aren't perfect, but they aren't bad...so if somebody wants one there's no time like the present. If you can, see if you can obtain an LE model from a dealer like G&R since they go through a little more stringent QC.
Yes, the earlier versions did have some bugs but from my experience Smith has always been very, very good about fixing issues. I have an early M&P( late 2006 ) and they sent me a new mag release without question and fixed the gun when I had extraction issues. I think if you get a new one with the Mass trigger block I think the last major issue of dead triggers has been fixed. Also, I do recommend Apex sears since they make it feel like a whole different gun.
For me I would use either the M&P or the Glock depending which feels better for you.
Glock is still making improvements to their pistols, so nothing is ever settled.
That being said, now that it's possible to order M&P's that have been worked over with Apex parts, and the increasing availability if aftermarket sights and magazine extensions, the timing is no longer relevant - if it's the most logical pistol in the price range, do it.
If I didn't find myself rocking an involuntary semi every time I handle a 1911, I'd own nothing but similarly equipped M&Ps.
JW basically summed up this thread.
I was going to post something to the same effect as what he said but there is no need.
Long story short, they're good guns, they're not perfect but if you understand that fact, the odds are you will walk away from your purchase a supremely happy camper.
I traded for a pair of used M&Ps a few weeks ago. 1 FS9 and 1 FS45. Shot the 9 with the stock trigger and immediately upgraded with a DCAEK and competition spring in the gun. Shot a hundred or so rounds at the range to sort of familiarize myself it and took it to the Langdon course that weekend. 1200 or so rounds for the weekend without a hiccup. As a dyed in the wool Glock guy I am impressed. I'm a little more accurate with it also. Gun was made in late 2008. Seriously considering adding a .40 to the group.
A firearms trainer (who is a friend of mine) for a state LE agency just had her striker break in her M&P 9. She does heavily dry fire without snap caps, FWIW. I own two M&Ps, and one has already been back for repair. I remain convinced that they are still not quite where they need to be.
A firearms trainer (who is a friend of mine) for a state LE agency just had her striker break in her M&P 9. She does heavily dry fire without snap caps, FWIW. I own two M&Ps, and one has already been back for repair. I remain convinced that they are still not quite where they need to be.
Has anyone actually had a striker break under use? Ie, firing a live round?
So far every single report of a broken striker that ive read about has been due to dry fire.
Im not saying that this ISNT a problem, im just saying how many cycles of a striker do we expect to be reasonable?
I broke my first striker on my oldest M&P this summer and that was after 35000 live fires and god knows how many dry fires, easily over 100k. To me that is an acceptable lifespan for a part.
I dont disagree that the M&P could be better but is that realistic? Anything made by man can and will break. Im not using that as an excuse but its simply a fact.
Bolt_Overide
10-13-10, 04:13
M&P is definitly "there", I will echo however that the Apex Tactical's DCAEK is a must.
GermanSynergy
10-13-10, 04:39
Spare striker assy's are inexpensive and can be installed by the end user in a matter of seconds on the M&P.
A firearms trainer (who is a friend of mine) for a state LE agency just had her striker break in her M&P 9. She does heavily dry fire without snap caps, FWIW. I own two M&Ps, and one has already been back for repair. I remain convinced that they are still not quite where they need to be.
I have three M&P's: one fullsize 9 and two 9c's. The fullsize has about 2500 rounds through it, my older 9c has had over 7000 through it and my newer 9c is rapidly approaching 2500.
I've managed to break three strikers during dryfire practice, one in my fullsize and two in my older 9c (I dryfire like crazy). My newest one hasn't had any issues at all, even though I dryfire it even more than I did the first two.
The newest striker design appears to have solved the issue of breakages as I have yet to see mention of even one breakage with the latest revision on any of the forums I frequent. The other issues I've seen mentioned over on MP-Pistol.com and here seem to be getting less and less frequent, too.
I'll concur that the triggers aren't the greatest but they do break in quite nicely after 1000-1500 rounds. I'm on the fence as to whether I'll get an Apex kit for any of my M&P's.
Overall, I think the M&P is plenty reliable, especially with the latest-production guns.
SWATcop556
10-13-10, 08:10
I've only seen a broken striker with extensive dry fire without snap caps. I've never seen one fail under use with snap caps or live ammo. That being said dry fire is hard on ANY firearm. The use of snap caps help mitigate this. I've even seen two Glocks have broken parts from dry fire. One was a broken striker and the other was a cracked breech face. Nothing made by man is "bulletproof."
Has anyone actually had a striker break under use? Ie, firing a live round?
So far every single report of a broken striker that ive read about has been due to dry fire.
Im not saying that this ISNT a problem, im just saying how many cycles of a striker do we expect to be reasonable?
I broke my first striker on my oldest M&P this summer and that was after 35000 live fires and god knows how many dry fires, easily over 100k. To me that is an acceptable lifespan for a part.
I dont disagree that the M&P could be better but is that realistic? Anything made by man can and will break. Im not using that as an excuse but its simply a fact.
I have quite a few firearms buffs at my workplace, and we get into discussions about "A vs B". Regarding the M&P series, I've talked to a couple guys who say that they'll definitely buy one "when all the bugs are worked out".
Not having any personal experience with the M&P, is this gun still a work in progress or have most of the issues been ironed out?
What bugs would that be on the current production model?
G34Shooter
10-13-10, 08:38
What bugs would that be on the current production model?
If they tighten up their QC then tolerance stacking won't be as much as issue which can cause the "sear skipping" of the Pro and non-9mm models.
What is everyone considering latest production? When was the last time they made a major change to the M&P series? I have one with a test fire at 5/09. Would you consider this part of the latest production? Anyone have a serial # sheet of when most of the upgrades took place? Thanks for all replies.
A firearms trainer (who is a friend of mine) for a state LE agency just had her striker break in her M&P 9. She does heavily dry fire without snap caps, FWIW. I own two M&Ps, and one has already been back for repair. I remain convinced that they are still not quite where they need to be.
The latest gen strikers don't have any issues with dry firing.
C4
What is everyone considering latest production? When was the last time they made a major change to the M&P series? I have one with a test fire at 5/09. Would you consider this part of the latest production? Anyone have a serial # sheet of when most of the upgrades took place? Thanks for all replies.
I would consider any M&P which came with the latest-revision striker to be 'latest production'. Generally, that means 12/09 to present.
The latest gen strikers don't have any issues with dry firing.
+1... but given that I managed to break three of the previous-revision strikers while dryfiring, I still use snap-caps.
I would consider any M&P which came with the latest-revision striker to be 'latest production'. Generally, that means 12/09 to present.
+1... but given that I managed to break three of the previous-revision strikers while dryfiring, I still use snap-caps.
Mine has the black striker, should I replace it with a silver one? How prone are they to breaking?
Mine has the black striker, should I replace it with a silver one? How prone are they to breaking?
Replace it when it breaks. If its your primary carry piece and you want peace of mind then go ahead and replace it. I dont think its necessary and alot of other people dont but you cannot put a price on your life.
SWATcop556
10-14-10, 03:37
I would buy one of the newest gen strikers and have it on hand but its not neccessary to replace it until (if) the old one breaks. As was suggested you can change it out for piece of mind.
FWIW I have two M&P40 FS that are some of the earliest pistol out of the factory (within the first 3000 guns released). Both still have all of their original parts and have fuctioned without issue for 5000+ round each. They are backups to my primary duty pistol and off duty pistol (which have the Apex DCAEK).
I did manage to finally break the original black striker on my primary training M&P9 FS but its strictly used for training and dry firing so I didn't sweat it.
Mine has the black striker, should I replace it with a silver one? How prone are they to breaking?
G34Shooter
10-14-10, 10:16
Mine has the black striker, should I replace it with a silver one? How prone are they to breaking?
The newest striker with additional coils also cure my Failures to Fire that I had with RWS ammo.
Mine has the black striker, should I replace it with a silver one? How prone are they to breaking?
I wold install the improved striker and keep the black one for a spare.
I am in the process of moving to the M&P platform for my carry gun, as the M&P just fits my hand perfectly. I have a full size M&P40 that I have been testing and have about 500 rounds through it without any problems. I need to get the DCAEK installed though--I was hoping the frankly crappy trigger would smooth out more than it did with use.
RogerinTPA
10-14-10, 15:13
I am in the process of moving to the M&P platform for my carry gun, as the M&P just fits my hand perfectly. I have a full size M&P40 that I have been testing and have about 500 rounds through it without any problems. I need to get the DCAEK installed though--I was hoping the frankly crappy trigger would smooth out more than it did with use.
Oddly, my M&P40 had a pretty good stock trigger and reset, but I did replace the stock sear with the Apex sear since I bought 3 of them. It made a pretty good trigger even better.
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