Why everyone should carry [Archive]

platoonDaddy

10-12-10, 11:53

Terror threat to restaurants as Al Qaeda calls for attacks on government workers in D.C.
BY James Gordon Meek
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Monday, October 11th 2010, 8:34 PM

WASHINGTON - The terror group tied to the Ft. Hood killings and the Christmas Day undies airbomber urge wannabe American jihadis to open fire on crowded restaurants in the nation's capital to massacre U.S. government workers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/10/11/2010-10-11_terror_threat_to_restaurants_as_al_qaeda_calls_for_attacks_on_government_workers.html#ixzz12AEYdT1w

500grains

10-12-10, 16:14

Sadly, a government worker in DC who is not a LEO and carries is committing a felony and is very likely to get busted.

Moose-Knuckle

10-12-10, 16:41

I was about to say to bad the 2nd is infringed upon in the District of Columbia.

GermanSynergy

10-12-10, 16:59

Not to worry. DC bans the carry of firearms by non LE personnel, so AQ won't do it. :sarcastic::rolleyes:

FromMyColdDeadHand

10-12-10, 19:16

I've been thinking that we are dueto get more Israeli type suicide attacks here as more people get radicallized and more native Americans get converted to radical islam.

When it does happen, just wait for the MSM to call for more gun control to stop it :rolleyes:

After having one of the potential bombers of NYC have his bomb making operations here in Denver, I upgraded my carry from a P7 to a Hi-cap 45acp. Better overall performance, and definately a better tool if something like this happens.

These guys are going to find out fast that Flight 93 was not a fluke.

m4fun

10-12-10, 20:08

Not wished at all but somewhat ironic. I would say this is more the DC area which includes VA and MD. Govt buildings everywhere here.

woodandsteel

10-12-10, 22:14

After having one of the potential bombers of NYC have his bomb making operations here in Denver, I upgraded my carry from a P7 to a Hi-cap 45acp. Better overall performance, and definately a better tool if something like this happens.

These guys are going to find out fast that Flight 93 was not a fluke.

I've never been one to consider a "trunk gun". But, after hearing reports of a "Mumbai" style attack in Europe, I've been wondering about what our enemies had in store for us. And wether or not I'm prepared.

I've always carried. And I am lucky to have a wife who always carries. But lately I've been concerned that my handgun may not be enough.

jklaughrey

10-12-10, 22:33

You mean to tell us you don't already have a rifle or two in your trunk all the time. LOL?

Preferred User

10-12-10, 22:33

I've never been one to consider a "trunk gun". But, after hearing reports of a "Mumbai" style attack in Europe, I've been wondering about what our enemies had in store for us. And wether or not I'm prepared.

I've always carried. And I am lucky to have a wife who always carries. But lately I've been concerned that my handgun may not be enough.

Probably depends on your goal. A handgun is for "personal protection". What is your plan for elevating your protection beyond your person and not being seen as a threat yourself?

woodandsteel

10-12-10, 22:50

You mean to tell us you don't already have a rifle or two in your trunk all the time. LOL?

Back when a quality SKS could be bought for around $80.00, one of my commanders bought several. His reasoning was; "You never knew when you might need an SKS". :D

Sadly, I missed the boat on that one. Now that they are hard to find cheaply, I want one. :sad:

Probably depends on your goal. A handgun is for "personal protection". What is your plan for elevating your protection beyond your person and not being seen as a threat yourself?

Actually I have thought of the possibility of fratricide. And you do raise a valid, and serious point.

I would use a handgun to protect myself,and family, from an unexpected attack. The long gun would only come into play if something happened in my town, and I was needed to assist the first responding officers (who I train and work with).

I am horrified by the report of one of the survivors of the Mumbai attacks. He apparently saw a police officer or soldier who was afraid to fire at the attackers in the train station. He begged the officer to give him his rifle so he could engage.

Actually, I'm glad you posted the above statement. How are people preparing themselves to avoid being seen as a threat?

Bolt_Overide

10-12-10, 23:05

Im sorta reticent to carry a long gun around in my car, yes it would be useful should it come to needing it, but whats the chances of getting shot in the ass by a responding LEO, or another armed citizen, something to consider....

jklaughrey

10-12-10, 23:16

kaiservontexas

10-13-10, 00:16

Be happy they are not watching Chuck Norris movies yet to get ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iexeWoJcRBE

FromMyColdDeadHand

10-13-10, 00:29

In my trunk I keep a plate carrier that has "Sheriff" on the front and back, along with plates of course. And I would call in to let responding units know there is a off duty LEO in area ready to assist.

I'm absolutely not trying to be a smart-ass, but I assume you actually are a Sheriff? I just hadn't rememberd any posts where you mentioned you were a LEO. Not all of us have that 'opportunity' or responsibility. I seriously doubt that our first responders would have the same issues as the Indians. From what I have seen there were many brave cops, but most were ill-trained and all were ill equiped (bolt guns, IIRC).

My comment about Flight 93 was not an idle comment. Totally unprepared, unarmed civilians seriously got inside the bad guys A-team OODA loop. If anything now we ascribe incidents to terrorism, so I think the bad guys are in for a rough surprise if when they start their next wave of attacks.

As always, the best combat use of a handgun is to fight your way to your rifle :D but I agree that fraticide is a real possibility. I think we'll also have the problem in the other direction of BGs in uniform.

Not saying I would mind a folding stock M1 carbine with a red dot and the new HP bullets in my trunk, but I think the chances of it actually being used are slim. It isn't like they are going to be able to muster even a platoon let alone a larger force that would rove around the suburbs. When I do travel longer distances by car, I make sure I have more assets to use, just in case of Burkas or banjos.

I really like the idea of the red dots on the handgun slides. It seems to make it so that longer range shots (100 yards) are entirely possible on man sized targets. That gives me a big enough bubble to worry about in the urban environment with out getting into rifles, though the penetration would be nice.

Gotta worry about the gun being taken from the car also.

Maybe we can all get into Obama's civilian militia and get our "Good Guy' Badges.

Business_Casual

10-13-10, 05:44

Mir Amal Kasi?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_shootings_at_CIA_Headquarters

John Muhammed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_snipers

9/11?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_77

If you don't think this area is a target, you aren't paying attention.

B_C

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 06:21

We just haven't spoken much Colddeadhands. I prefer to stay somewhat low key.

BC, thanks for the links. Nice to revisit those memories even if it hurts. I worry all the time for the family I have in that area who work the beltway.

platoonDaddy

10-13-10, 06:50

[QUOTE=Business_Casual;784661]

If you live in NoVA and don't carry you are an idiot

/QUOTE]

Let me add if you live in the DC area and don't carry you are an idiot.

In Maryland it is ALMOST impossible to obtain a carry permit, therefore many of us are "outlaws". My cuz is a Md Trooper and I have told him many times; LEO's respond to an event, we on the other hand are responsible for our own security. Of course he doesn't like hearing that, but it is sooooooooooooo very true.

GermanSynergy

10-13-10, 06:59

You must be "special" to get a carry permit in Maryland.

[QUOTE=Business_Casual;784661]

If you live in NoVA and don't carry you are an idiot

/QUOTE]

Let me add if you live in the DC area and don't carry you are an idiot.

In Maryland it is ALMOST impossible to obtain a carry permit, therefore many of us are "outlaws". My cuz is a Md Trooper and I have told him many times; LEO's respond to an event, we on the other hand are responsible for our own security. Of course he doesn't like hearing that, but it is sooooooooooooo very true.

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 07:24

...we were all "special"?

GermanSynergy

10-13-10, 07:31

In Maryland, some people are more "special" than others, in terms of being issued a CCW permit. Next to impossible for the rank and file person to obtain.

...we were all "special"?

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 07:49

I have family in Waldorf. Thank God I am in WA/ID.

dbrowne1

10-13-10, 08:17

.........

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 08:30

I would say situation should dictate your responsible course of action in any case. If long gun availability is present use it, otherwise handgun will have to do. But lets not forget the "Hollywood" shootout where officers used their handguns and it just wasn't doing it. Only when they disengaged and reengaged the contacts with long guns did they make significant gains in subduing the armed suspects. If at all possible use the best tools for the job. If not, do what you can with what you brought to the fight to begin with.

usmcvet

10-13-10, 09:15

I retired my 5 shot 640PD for a G27 a few years ago because I became more worried about multiple threats. It is still small enough to carry every day with at least one reload.

THCDDM4

10-13-10, 11:20

I would say everyone should carry (regardless of geographic location) either open or concealed; becuase it is your intrinsic right to do so; terrorists targeting people in specific US cities is just reaffirmation that you should be utilizing your rights in the first place.

Littlelebowski

10-13-10, 11:51

If this does happen, 10-1 says it will in DC or Maryland. Not Virginia.

FromMyColdDeadHand

10-13-10, 11:52

Probably about the same as the chances of getting shot by them when they see you with a handgun.

In a situation where a "terrorist" just shows up out of the blue and starts shooting up a random location, I'm somewhat skeptical of the value of a properly stored/secured/hidden long gun carried routinely in a vehicle. Ditto for plate carriers. If you're already there watching it, are you really going to run out to your car (which could be some distance away), don your plate carrier, dig out your rifle, and go running back? And if so, how many people are already dead? Wouldn't you be better off finding some cover and drilling him with the handgun you already have?

Mumbia didn't go on for a few minutes it went hot for hours and lasted for a day. I don't think something like that could go on here, but North Hollywood was thought to be a fantasy scenario at one time. Let's be frank too. As as single responder civy, with a rifle and no plates against 6+ (probably) BGs with full auto mod'd weapons, friendly fire might be the least of your worries. I definately wouldn't use an AK as my truck gun though.

The sweaty, nervous-looking guy with big bulges around his torso who is moving toward a crowd would be a clue to move elsewhere.

I'm screwed if this becomes the profile.

usmcvet

10-13-10, 11:57

Probably depends on your goal. A handgun is for "personal protection". What is your plan for elevating your protection beyond your person and not being seen as a threat yourself?

A long gun would be good for mutiple bad guys and against body armor. It would be good for longer shots from cover.

Littlelebowski

10-13-10, 11:58

A long gun would be good for mutiple bad guys and against body armor. It would be good for longer shots from cover.

You missed the part about "not being seen as a threat yourself."

Yes, I know about backpacks, etc but be realistic for those of us that live and work here.

usmcvet

10-13-10, 12:02

I would gladly take help from a civilian with a long gun who knew how to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrowne1
The sweaty, nervous-looking guy with big bulges around his torso who is moving toward a crowd would be a clue to move elsewhere.

I'm screwed if this becomes the profile.

Me too! Drop the nervous and that could be me most days.:laugh:

usmcvet

10-13-10, 12:08

You missed the part about "not being seen as a threat yourself."

Yes, I know about back[packs, etc but be realistic for those of us that live and work here.

No I agree it is a serious consideration. Here is a possible solution

http://www.dsmsafety.com/home.html

500grains

10-13-10, 12:15

I've never been one to consider a "trunk gun". But, after hearing reports of a "Mumbai" style attack in Europe, I've been wondering about what our enemies had in store for us. And wether or not I'm prepared.

I carried a front seat rifle on and off, now I don't take one all the time but frequently I do.

I've always carried. And I am lucky to have a wife who always carries. But lately I've been concerned that my handgun may not be enough.

I have been carrying for 17 years, my wife for almost that long. But what we usually carry concealed is more suitable for dealing with a mugger than with multiple Al Q. attackers, some of whom may be at longer distances.

usmcvet

10-13-10, 12:21

Here are a few photos to go with the previous link.

http://dsmsafety.com/law-enforcement.htm

https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=304&pictureid=1461

https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=304&pictureid=1462

Which color do you like best? They willl make them Green or Red for any of them CCW, Security, Police, Sheriff.....

THCDDM4

10-13-10, 12:28

kaiservontexas

10-13-10, 12:31

I do think swarming subdivisions is a scenario. Mumbai was bad, but Nalchik in 2005 was basically the seizure of a city. In Nalchik about 200 terrorists armed with AKs, RPGs, and load out gear came across the border down the mountains and pinned down an entire Russian city for a weekend. It took about 2,000 troops to dislodge the terrorists. They also purposely targeted the police and military from the outset.

Then the stuff that goes on in other parts of the world. Israel had to deal with Lord knows how many such attacks.

Truth is it is even easier to run amok through a city then it would be to use airplanes as cruise missiles. I am amazed we do not see these type of attacks.

As for packing a rifle in a trunk. I have thought about it, but I worry about some criminal stealing things out of my car. I would hate for one of my guns to end up in such hands. A handgun I can keep with me on person most of the time, unless it is going into a government building, etc.

And as for defending the nation if such an attack happened, yes if I am capable. I would not worry about the police shooting me as much as the terrorists doing it. But my priority is probably going to be escape and evade getting my fiance and friends (and anybody else that follows)out of harms way since I know the dust up will be about to hit when the SWAT teams show up.

usmcvet

10-13-10, 12:33

The red looks easier to read too. The green might be dismissed as a traffic vest.

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 12:37

You would be suprised how easy it is to cable lock and anchor your weapon inside your trunk, if you are going to leave it in there for an extended period. Myself personally, it comes out when I am home or at work. Other than that if your out and about it is fine. I mean c'mon how many of us guys really spend 3-4 hours shopping with the wife. LOL

Dirk Williams

10-13-10, 12:49

Im missing something here,

So your intent is to engage the bad guys?. Or to un-ass the area tactically.

You guys back east , are you saying it would be illegal to carry a weapon/rifle in your trunk?.

MC VET. Frankly what's to say that the turds aren't sashaying around in those color coded Ayood dance vests.

To engage or to retreat is a HUGE choice.

Story Here in Roseville Calif about 10 years ago an officer was exiting the PD when he exited the secure part of the report room ito the public loby, he was confronted by a man with a gun.

The officer pulled his gat, shots were exchanged. The rest of his shift exited the report room, saw two men with guns and the officer was killed by his own guys who he had just came off shift with 20 minutes earlier.

This really sucks for everybody.

Anyway just a point to ponder before you go all jJhn Wayne alone.

D Williams

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 13:10

I don't know, I for one if able to engage in safe manner and not risk lives needlessly would counter. But again that depends, if my family or others needed to get out of area safely and I could provide that I would do so, even if it meant me retreating as well. However I would be sure to gather as much intel to relay to local authorities if I am out or in my own jurisdiction.

Dirk Williams

10-13-10, 13:29

Sounds like a reasonable plan.

I don't know what I'd do frankly. My first inclanation would be to retreat or go to ground and watch, to determine what needed to happen.

I honestly don't think Id be sashaying around in anything that said or hinted I was LEO.

My thoughts are go native.
Shoot the ****ers in the back.
From distance if possible.
Have a plan to split in an instant and herd as many folks to safety as possible without fanfare or fuss. If someone wants to stick around it's ok by me. It's their funeral

I just think you can be more effective as an army of one if you fight un conventionally and poke at their weak spots.

I do, and have for 15 years carried an AK-47 under the back seat. I also keep 4 or 6 mags in a rodisian? rig. The gun has an ACE folding stock, is dirty, rusty and I haven't seen it in months.

That's why I chose the AK as it works first time ,every time.

Chargng in guns blazing only agravates shit. Sooner or later THEY will get you and then your no good to anybody.

Just my thoughts off the cuff.

Dirk

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 13:39

I concur, native is a good way so long as responding good guys know who you are.

usmcvet

10-13-10, 13:42

If I drove by a school and saw a person or group of people shooting kids you are freaking right I would engage them. What you choose to do is up to you. I am not looking for a fight. I am far from John Wayne. I am just a regular guy, with 3 kids. Some things are worth dying for. I am in no rush to see the man but there are worse things that could happen to a person. IF I had my AR not just my G27 I would be in a much better position to take action and survive.

The only time I have my rifle in my truck is on my way to and from work and to and from the range. If I had been the construction worker who ran over the gunman in California last week it would have been .40 cal rounds he was hit with not an F150. This guy emptied his .357 into a school yard and was reloading. Some people just need to be shot. He was clearly one of them.

The CCW/Police sash is a good idea. Your fear that people are running around wearing them is pretty far out there. I don’t even know any cops with them. You could make one up I suppose, I am not sure it will be that effective but it is better than nothing.

Force on Force shootings are sad and we need to do what we can to avoid them. The sash is a good idea. If anyone has a better idea share it with us.

Im missing something here,

So your intent is to engage the bad guys?. Or to un-ass the area tactically.

You guys back east , are you saying it would be illegal to carry a weapon/rifle in your trunk?.

MC VET. Frankly what's to say that the turds aren't sashaying around in those color coded Ayood dance vests.

To engage or to retreat is a HUGE choice.

Story Here in Roseville Calif about 10 years ago an officer was exiting the PD when he exited the secure part of the report room ito the public loby, he was confronted by a man with a gun.

The officer pulled his gat, shots were exchanged. The rest of his shift exited the report room, saw two men with guns and the officer was killed by his own guys who he had just came off shift with 20 minutes earlier.

This really sucks for everybody.

Anyway just a point to ponder before you go all jJhn Wayne alone.

D Williams

usmcvet

10-13-10, 13:46

Dirk

When I lived in Mass, 20 years ago it was illegal to leave a firearm in a car. I am sure it still is. In VT there is no restriction.

Dirk Williams

10-13-10, 14:11

USMC VET I wasn't mean you, I was simply stating perhaps one should think of options in the force continum. Getting all dressed up off duty isn't in my plans. Fighting someone else's fight isn't either.

Sometimes it's just the way it is.

Your model of kids getten shot is very different then what I was reading here. And yes there are some reasons worth dieing for, Kids are top of the list.

Our world never fails to forget the lessons of the past. 911 Paduka Colinbine etc etc.

If you feel like putting on that princess police pagant ribbon, then you should, Im not here to tell you what, or what not to do.

Im trying to learn and understand just like everybody else.

Dirk

usmcvet

10-13-10, 14:35

You got me laughing my ass off. If you could only see me :laugh: I look more like Shrek! Okay still laughing.

I have to say if I had my kiddies with me I would be much more defensive. There is a time and a place, I was just thinking about kids, that is my weak spot, I am sure I am not alone and it is my nightmare. The terrorist know how much more of a reaction they will have if they hit our kids.

I don't have a sash and will prob not get one either. It was just an idea to answer some of the questions. Sorry if I was fired up. You still have me smiling.

USMC VET I wasn't mean you, I was simply stating perhaps one should think of options in the force continum. Getting all dressed up off duty isn't in my plans. Fighting someone else's fight isn't either.

Sometimes it's just the way it is.

Your model of kids getten shot is very different then what I was reading here. And yes there are some reasons worth dieing for, Kids are top of the list.

Our world never fails to forget the lessons of the past. 911 Paduka Colinbine etc etc.

If you feel like putting on that princess police pagant ribbon, then you should, Im not here to tell you what, or what not to do.

Im trying to learn and understand just like everybody else.

Dirk

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 14:40

Me too, I want one. First I want to thank the judges and second I want world peace, and...

500grains

10-13-10, 14:41

There is a time and a place, I was just thinking about kids, that is my weak spot, I am sure I am not alone and it is my nightmare. The terrorist know how much more of a reaction they will have if they hit our kids.

When we picked a school for our kids to attend, I seriously considered putting them in the local Jewish (private) elementary school. The school is great on academics, has great facilities and very qualified teachers.

However, 2 things made me think again.

One was terrorist attack. Although we have not had Mumbai style attacks here yet, I have been expecting them since autumn of 2001 as those attacks are so easy to organize. And what target would rabid muslims love to attack? How about an elementary school and day care filled with Jewish children?

Also the location of the school was about 1 mile less convenient than the alternative we eventually selected.

Honu

10-13-10, 16:28

Moose-Knuckle

10-13-10, 16:38

When we picked a school for our kids to attend, I seriously considered putting them in the local Jewish (private) elementary school. The school is great on academics, has great facilities and very qualified teachers.

However, 2 things made me think again.

One was terrorist attack. Although we have not had Mumbai style attacks here yet, I have been expecting them since autumn of 2001 as those attacks are so easy to organize. And what target would rabid muslims love to attack? How about an elementary school and day care filled with Jewish children?

Also the location of the school was about 1 mile less convenient than the alternative we eventually selected.

Reminds me of an atricle I read one time about Israeli grandparents protecting schools that their own grandchildren attend. It's kind of a win-win situation due to the fact no one has a more vested interest in those children than their own grandparents (all Vets BTW) and they don't have to pay them as they are volunteers. This happened after a Haji blew himself up in an Israeli elementary school.

jklaughrey

10-13-10, 18:33

It would be a good idea. I know I would have zero problem donating 1 day a week from work to help supplement the SRO at my child's school.

platoonDaddy

10-13-10, 19:28

another link with the inspire magazine
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/al-qaeda-magazine-proud-traitor-and-tips-on-how-to-kill-americans/

FoxNews covered this magazine tonight, it certainly is very professional done. Wonder where the monies are coming from? Saudi would be my guess.

It is time to:
Lock-N-Load

GermanSynergy

10-13-10, 19:36

I predict that the MSM will cover up the fact that these acts are perpetrated by radical Islamists, in addition to pushing more more gun bans, etc.

If you think I'm wrong, you have only to look at the media go into PC overdrive after the Ft.Hood massacre.

I've been thinking that we are dueto get more Israeli type suicide attacks here as more people get radicallized and more native Americans get converted to radical islam.

When it does happen, just wait for the MSM to call for more gun control to stop it :rolleyes:

After having one of the potential bombers of NYC have his bomb making operations here in Denver, I upgraded my carry from a P7 to a Hi-cap 45acp. Better overall performance, and definately a better tool if something like this happens.

These guys are going to find out fast that Flight 93 was not a fluke.