View Full Version : Parts used in BCM lowers? BCM trigger?
SleepingGiant
10-12-10, 17:39
Anyone know which parts kit is used in the BCM lowers. Thinking of picking up a lower from them, but want to know what to expect from the trigger. How is the trigger on a BCM rifle?
Alternative is a spikes lower in my hands for 90 bucks, and this lower build kit:
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/598.php
Have a bcm upper, so matching brands might be nice, but is it worth it?
fivefivesix
10-12-10, 17:57
bcm uses there own parts kit that they make. the lower your gonna have to decide on. spikes is nice but bcm is also nice. id give the edge to bcm, i heard from grant that the bcm lpk are really nice. but that deal you found is well worth the money. i just paid today for a daniel defense lpk and it cost me 81 bucks
I don't think BCM ID's the LPK that goes into their lowers but you can be assured it's quality. Kinda looks like Stag but I'm just going by looks, and they sell Stag LPKs.
I'd say go with their lower so it matches your upper. Don't forget BCM sells blemished complete lowers for $270.
SleepingGiant
10-12-10, 18:05
Yes I tried emailing them earlier about this and they were evasive about telling me what parts they use:confused:
Quentin: Do you own a BCM? how do you like the trigger?
I don't think BCM ID's the LPK that goes into their lowers but you can be assured it's quality. Kinda looks like Stag but I'm just going by looks, and they sell Stag LPKs.
I'd say go with their lower so it matches your upper. Don't forget BCM sells blemished complete lowers for $270.
Not Stag, Paul sources directly from manufacturers that make parts to his specifications which is the TDP.
I have a BCM lower, and yes, the trigger is fine.
I'm guessing mutt-sources, similar to the G&R, DD, and some others out there.
I wouldn't be surprised if some parts are CMT, while others come from elsewhere (LMT, colt OEM).
There is a fair bit of money involved in purchasing a statistically significant quantity of LPK parts in order to test them yourself, and then continue testing them to make sure they fall within a spec - so I think it's justifiable that they'd keep the results of that to themselves, otherwise we'd all just bypass that system, and make those parts harder for Paul to source for complete builds.
My BCM trigger is acceptable - but still getting replaced with a GSSA I picked up from BCUSA anyway.
The best deal on BCM Lowers is with included LPKs, similar to how they were paying you to accept a charging handle with an upper.
Buy a BCM complete blemished lower for $250 and $9 shipping
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM
The trigger in my BCM seems fine to me.
I have no advice on what parts are in the BCM lower, but definatly very happy with the blemished lower I got from G&R, have a local guy that did the transfer for 10 bucks, so under 300 shipped and transfered with stock was a great deal, still need to take pics of the "blemish" before I add some of my own.
What is the blem on your gun?
Yes I tried emailing them earlier about this and they were evasive about telling me what parts they use:confused:
Quentin: Do you own a BCM? how do you like the trigger?
Nope SG, no BCM lowers here but lots of their other stuff. :laugh: I built up M&P-15 and ArmaLite stripped lowers.
I have no advice on what parts are in the BCM lower, but definatly very happy with the blemished lower I got from G&R, have a local guy that did the transfer for 10 bucks, so under 300 shipped and transfered with stock was a great deal, still need to take pics of the "blemish" before I add some of my own.
I just got one in from G&R yesterday, and I still haven't found the "blemish".
i have a BCM lower that was black-t'ed, and i put a dab of NECO moly-slide on the trigger parts,,, that one is nice.
Yes I tried emailing them earlier about this and they were evasive about telling me what parts they use:confused:
Quentin: Do you own a BCM? how do you like the trigger?
BCM won't disclose who makes any (all) of the parts that go into their rifles...basically don't worry about it because their good/to spec.
It's not a Gissele, but I didn't notice any difference from my issue/mil-spc Colt(s).
SleepingGiant
10-13-10, 13:25
Alright thanks, just wanted to make sure I'd be happy with the lower. I'll probably order a cosmetic lower from them now!
Buy a BCM complete blemished lower for $250 and $9 shipping
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM
The trigger in my BCM seems fine to me.
Another endorsement for the blemished BCM lower from G&R, and the trigger in my BCM lower is the best stock trigger that I own.
Code7inoaktown
10-14-10, 00:49
Not Stag, Paul sources directly from manufacturers that make parts to his specifications which is the TDP.
I thought that Colt and FN don't disclose the TDP of the FCG in the M16A3/A4 and M4's so any other vendor could not be Colt or FN TDP.
justin_247
10-14-10, 02:39
I thought that Colt and FN don't disclose the TDP of the FCG in the M16A3/A4 and M4's so any other vendor could not be Colt or FN TDP.
Officially, they don't. However, it has leaked to various manufacturers.
Grease Monkey
10-14-10, 17:49
Another endorsement for the blemished BCM lower from G&R, and the trigger in my BCM lower is the best stock trigger that I own.
Yeah my BCM lower trigger is smooth as a baby's ass. Much nicer than my Noveske N4 rifle I bought!
I just installed an LWRC lpk in my Mega lower and it appears to be better than the Colt parts I have. The trigger is excellent for a mil type trigger. LWRC seems to be taking the next step in lpk QC.
http://www.lwrci.com/p-149-lwrci-traditional-lower-parts-kit.aspx
I have not used the BCM lpk but I have had good results with the parts I have purchased from Paul.
I went with the spikes lower and this kit.
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/615.php
For around $325 it turned out mighty nice.
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 09:12
I know this is an old thread, but I think an update is within reason. I just bought a BCM Recce16, and the LPK that BCM uses now must be different than what was used in Oct 2010 when this thread was active and everyone was saying how nice the BCM trigger is. I have used plenty of M16's and M4's and have an M&P15 and the trigger in my BCM is by far the worst trigger I have ever used. I have a Crossman pump BB gun that has a trigger that would rival my BCM trigger. The only trigger that I have ever shot with that I would pick the BCM trigger over is on my Bodyguard .380, but it is DAO so that is to be expected. I contacted BCM and they said "Thank you for contacting us. We do appreciate your business. The triggers installed in a RECCE 16 is a standard mil-spec trigger. It is not uncommon for a Standard mil-spec trigger to have some "grittiness" to it. Very normal. There are other mil-spec triggers that we offer directly on our website that may be more to your liking." I have never used a mil-spec trigger that was gritty or one that had excessive creep. Of all the M16's and M4's that I have used, the unaltered mil-spec trigger has always typically very crisp, heavy, but crisp. I responded to let them know that I would take a short video of the creep that my BCM trigger has in comparison to other triggers and send it to them tonight, so we will see if that is the new status quo for BCM triggers or if mine is an anomoly.
I will update when they contact me after sending them a video.
I know this is an old thread, but I think an update is within reason. I just bought a BCM Recce16, and the LPK that BCM uses now must be different than what was used in Oct 2010 when this thread was active and everyone was saying how nice the BCM trigger is. I have used plenty of M16's and M4's and have an M&P15 and the trigger in my BCM is by far the worst trigger I have ever used. I have a Crossman pump BB gun that has a trigger that would rival my BCM trigger. The only trigger that I have ever shot with that I would pick the BCM trigger over is on my Bodyguard .380, but it is DAO so that is to be expected. I contacted BCM and they said "Thank you for contacting us. We do appreciate your business. The triggers installed in a RECCE 16 is a standard mil-spec trigger. It is not uncommon for a Standard mil-spec trigger to have some "grittiness" to it. Very normal. There are other mil-spec triggers that we offer directly on our website that may be more to your liking." I have never used a mil-spec trigger that was gritty or one that had excessive creep. Of all the M16's and M4's that I have used, the unaltered mil-spec trigger has always typically very crisp, heavy, but crisp. I responded to let them know that I would take a short video of the creep that my BCM trigger has in comparison to other triggers and send it to them tonight, so we will see if that is the new status quo for BCM triggers or if mine is an anomoly.
I will update when they contact me after sending them a video.
GI Triggers can be all over the place in regards to pull weight and "feel." This all normal. If you want a more consistent trigger (that is cheap), look at ALG Defense.
C4
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 09:23
GI Triggers can be all over the place in regards to pull weight and "feel." This all normal. If you want a more consistent trigger (that is cheap), look at ALG Defense.
C4
I wasn't speaking of pull weight, I was speaking of the quarter inch of creep before a mushy break. I am fine with a trigger being heavy on an AR series rifle, but I am not okay with creep. I am going to take a short video and send it to BCM tonight when I get off work, and if you all want, I can post it here too to show what I am speaking of more efficiently.
On a side note, C4IGrant, did you get the email I sent you yesterday?
I know this is an old thread, but I think an update is within reason. I just bought a BCM Recce16, and the LPK that BCM uses now must be different than what was used in Oct 2010 when this thread was active and everyone was saying how nice the BCM trigger is. I have used plenty of M16's and M4's and have an M&P15 and the trigger in my BCM is by far the worst trigger I have ever used. I have a Crossman pump BB gun that has a trigger that would rival my BCM trigger. The only trigger that I have ever shot with that I would pick the BCM trigger over is on my Bodyguard .380, but it is DAO so that is to be expected. I contacted BCM and they said "Thank you for contacting us. We do appreciate your business. The triggers installed in a RECCE 16 is a standard mil-spec trigger. It is not uncommon for a Standard mil-spec trigger to have some "grittiness" to it. Very normal. There are other mil-spec triggers that we offer directly on our website that may be more to your liking." I have never used a mil-spec trigger that was gritty or one that had excessive creep. Of all the M16's and M4's that I have used, the unaltered mil-spec trigger has always typically very crisp, heavy, but crisp. I responded to let them know that I would take a short video of the creep that my BCM trigger has in comparison to other triggers and send it to them tonight, so we will see if that is the new status quo for BCM triggers or if mine is an anomoly.
I will update when they contact me after sending them a video.
The trigger in my Colt LE6920 felt like your BCM trigger sounds, just gritty and overall crappy. After a couple of hundred rounds, and a good cleaning and lubricating it has come around nicely. AR's remind me a lot of my 1911's, they take a little range time to break in nicely.
Your problem does sound normal and not uncommon, and range time will make it better.
I wasn't speaking of pull weight, I was speaking of the quarter inch of creep before a mushy break. I am fine with a trigger being heavy on an AR series rifle, but I am not okay with creep. I am going to take a short video and send it to BCM tonight when I get off work, and if you all want, I can post it here too to show what I am speaking of more efficiently.
On a side note, C4IGrant, did you get the email I sent you yesterday?
I understand. This can be normal as well.
Honestly speaking, you are probably wasting your time with the Video.
I have no idea who you are so no on the e-mail. :D
C4
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 09:36
I understand. This can be normal as well.
Honestly speaking, you are probably wasting your time with the Video.
I have no idea who you are so no on the e-mail. :D
C4
My name on here is the same name I ordered my rifle under and the same name that is in my email address.
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 09:37
I never said my trigger was gritty. I said my trigger has excessive creep and a mushy break. I'm guessing where you got that my trigger is gritty is that BCM said it is normal for a mil-spec trigger to be gritty.
The best advice has been given. Clean the trigger well. Lube it well in the right spots. Dry fire/live fire the living crap out of it. Rinse and Repeat. Run at least 1500-2000 rounds through it and then re evaluate. If it still sucks, put in an ALG or Geissele or whatever makes you chubby.
Try that out before wasting your time with movies and things or spending gobs of cash.
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 09:47
The best advice has been given. Clean the trigger well. Lube it well in the right spots. Dry fire/live fire the living crap out of it. Rinse and Repeat. Run at least 1500-2000 rounds through it and then re evaluate. If it still sucks, put in an ALG or Geissele or whatever makes you chubby.
Try that out before wasting your time with movies and things or spending gobs of cash.
Really? Spend hundreds of dollars to break it in is the best advise. Not even close. And how is sending a video to the manufacturer a waste of time? now onto your advise. Cleaning a trigger, lubing a trigger and shooting with a trigger does not resolve creep. If it was a gritty, tight or overweight trigger, that is the exact process to clean it up, but let me know how that resolves trigger creep.
Really? Spend hundreds of dollars to break it in is the best advise. Not even close. And how is sending a video to the manufacturer a waste of time? now onto your advise. Cleaning a trigger, lubing a trigger and shooting with a trigger does not resolve creep. If it was a gritty, tight or overweight trigger, that is the exact process to clean it up, but let me know how that resolves trigger creep.
Dry firing costs nothing, and I'm sure cleaning and lubricating the trigger group is going to break the bank...
Really? Spend hundreds of dollars to break it in is the best advise. Not even close. And how is sending a video to the manufacturer a waste of time? now onto your advise. Cleaning a trigger, lubing a trigger and shooting with a trigger does not resolve creep. If it was a gritty, tight or overweight trigger, that is the exact process to clean it up, but let me know how that resolves trigger creep.
You are correct.
Creep can be normal in GI triggers (unfortunately). They were never meant to have a perfect feel (no grit, no creep, etc). They were meant to be reliable. Nothing more.
I know that you might not like that answer, but is the truth. Personally, the first thing I do with ANY AR is remove the GI FCG and install a Geissele product.
C4
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 09:56
Dry firing costs nothing, and I'm sure cleaning and lubricating the trigger group is going to break the bank...
1500-2000 rounds, as suggested, is quite a bit more expensive that dru firing and cleaning
You are correct.
Creep can be normal in GI triggers (unfortunately). They were never meant to have a perfect feel (no grit, no creep, etc). They were meant to be reliable. Nothing more.
I know that you might not like that answer, but is the truth. Personally, the first thing I do with ANY AR is remove the GI FCG and install a Geissele product.
C4
I understand that, I was just stating that this is the first trigger in an AR15, M4 or M16 that has ever had any noticible creep, and I think it is quite excessive. If BCM finds that it is out of spec, I'll make sure to update this thread to advice everyone that it didn't take 1500-2000 rounds to get something broken fixed by the manufacturer, and if it is found to be in spec, I am taking the trigger out of my S&W and installing it in my BCM. I'm sure that someone is into the kool-aid enough to love to have a S&W M&P15 with a BCM trigger in it, regardless of whether the trigger is any good or not as long as it came out of a BCM.
1500-2000 rounds, as suggested, is quite a bit more expensive that dru firing and cleaning
I understand that, I was just stating that this is the first trigger in an AR15, M4 or M16 that has ever had any noticible creep, and I think it is quite excessive. If BCM finds that it is out of spec, I'll make sure to update this thread to advice everyone that it didn't take 1500-2000 rounds to get something broken fixed by the manufacturer, and if it is found to be in spec, I am taking the trigger out of my S&W and installing it in my BCM. I'm sure that someone is into the kool-aid enough to love to have a S&W M&P15 with a BCM trigger in it, regardless of whether the trigger is any good or not as long as it came out of a BCM.
If you think your BCM trigger is bad, you should come feel some of the Colt triggers we touch everyday! ;)
I would have to look again, but I believe that S&W FCG's are MIM. I do agree that they feel pretty good.
Do yourself a HUGE favor and get and ALG Defense or Geissele FCG. You will never touch another GI FCG as long as you live.
C4
So you weren't going to spend hundreds of dollars shooting the gun anyway? I'm confused.....if you don't believe in giving it a chance to settle in then just replace it.
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 10:18
If you think your BCM trigger is bad, you should come feel some of the Colt triggers we touch everyday! ;)
I would have to look again, but I believe that S&W FCG's are MIM. I do agree that they feel pretty good.
Do yourself a HUGE favor and get and ALG Defense or Geissele FCG. You will never touch another GI FCG as long as you live.
C4
I'll wait to see what BCM does and go from there. Thanks for your advise.
So you weren't going to spend hundreds of dollars shooting the gun anyway? I'm confused.....if you don't believe in giving it a chance to settle in then just replace it.
I'm not going to put 1500-2000 rounds through a rifle that I spent 1200 on if I'm npot satisfied with it. I equate that to buying an expesive car, having something wrong with it that causes a rough ride and having someone that is a fanboy of that brand say that they can't believe you wouldn't just drive it 1500-2000 miles to see if it smoothed out.
I do find a few things interesting about what is going on here. Firstly, I didn't come here looking for advise, I came here to give an update to the thread. In Oct 2010, people were saying that BCM triggers were as smooth as glass, so I wanted to add an update showing that whatever triggers they used in Oct 2010 must have been different than what they use now, as the one that I received in Sep 2013 is horrible. Secondly, I find it interesting that every other thread that I have read on here concerning bad triggers, or any other problem, from brands that aren't as revered as BCM are always chalked up to you get what you pay for, but when it has to do with BCM, the concensus is that's how things are, just go shoot it.
Not Stag, Paul sources directly from manufacturers that make parts to his specifications which is the TDP.
ah, probably CMT (Continental Machine Tools) then...
I'll wait to see what BCM does and go from there. Thanks for your advise.
I'm not going to put 1500-2000 rounds through a rifle that I spent 1200 on if I'm npot satisfied with it. I equate that to buying an expesive car, having something wrong with it that causes a rough ride and having someone that is a fanboy of that brand say that they can't believe you wouldn't just drive it 1500-2000 miles to see if it smoothed out.
I do find a few things interesting about what is going on here. Firstly, I didn't come here looking for advise, I came here to give an update to the thread. In Oct 2010, people were saying that BCM triggers were as smooth as glass, so I wanted to add an update showing that whatever triggers they used in Oct 2010 must have been different than what they use now, as the one that I received in Sep 2013 is horrible. Secondly, I find it interesting that every other thread that I have read on here concerning bad triggers, or any other problem, from brands that aren't as revered as BCM are always chalked up to you get what you pay for, but when it has to do with BCM, the concensus is that's how things are, just go shoot it.
My concensus of just shoot more, bitch less goes for all brands :) Hey let us know what happens, I wish you the best of luck.
ah, probably CMT (Continental Machine Tools) then...
Doubtful. BCM buys a lot of small parts where I get my small parts from and it isn't CMT.
C4
Grant sells them to BCM after removing them from hacked up Carbon 15s.
:D
I do find a few things interesting about what is going on here. Firstly, I didn't come here looking for advise, I came here to give an update to the thread. In Oct 2010, people were saying that BCM triggers were as smooth as glass, so I wanted to add an update showing that whatever triggers they used in Oct 2010 must have been different than what they use now, as the one that I received in Sep 2013 is horrible. Secondly, I find it interesting that every other thread that I have read on here concerning bad triggers, or any other problem, from brands that aren't as revered as BCM are always chalked up to you get what you pay for, but when it has to do with BCM, the concensus is that's how things are, just go shoot it.
You have an example of one. BCM FCG's are some of the better ones I feel and I deal with DD, Colt, S&W, Noveske and BCM on a regular basis.
Point being is that the next one you get could exceed your expectations.
Honestly speaking, if someone said that they DPMS/Oly/RRA/BM FCG had creep in and was gritty, I would give the EXACT same advice.
C4
polymorpheous
09-13-13, 11:31
There's an awful lot of special snowflake going on in this thread.
Listen, the M4's and M16's you are experienced with likely have had thousands upon thousands of rounds through those lowers.
Smoothing out the triggers.
Heed the advice given to you and stop being argumentative.
Simply greasing the sear engagement surfaces on the trigger group will greatly improve the feel of the group.
As stated before, you have a normal Mil-Spec trigger group.
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 11:57
You have an example of one. BCM FCG's are some of the better ones I feel and I deal with DD, Colt, S&W, Noveske and BCM on a regular basis.
Point being is that the next one you get could exceed your expectations.
Honestly speaking, if someone said that they DPMS/Oly/RRA/BM FCG had creep in and was gritty, I would give the EXACT same advice.
C4
That is true, this is only 1 out of many and every other trigger group that BCM uses may be top of the line. I was simply adding this to show that the one that I received does not meet my expectations in case someone does a web search before a potential purchase. I completely agree that a higher quality AR will generally be an overall better weapon.
There's an awful lot of special snowflake going on in this thread.
Listen, the M4's and M16's you are experienced with likely have had thousands upon thousands of rounds through those lowers.
Smoothing out the triggers.
Heed the advice given to you and stop being argumentative.
Simply greasing the sear engagement surfaces on the trigger group will greatly improve the feel of the group.
As stated before, you have a normal Mil-Spec trigger group.
As stated before, simply greasing the sear engagement surfaces or do nothing for trigger creep. If it were a gritty trigger, I would agree with you. Also as stated before, I did not come here looking for advise, I just added an update to the thread so that people would be able to get information if they were looking for it.
Regardless of the manufacturer, I find it a bit silly that anyone would expect a mil-spec trigger to be anything but gritty and/or have some creep when brand new.
If you get one, out of the box, that is smooth and breaks crisp, you found a diamond in the rough. Otherwise, it's really not a representation of the company you purchased it from, unless it proves unreliable.
A very easy way to wear a new trigger in without using ammo is to remove the lower and manually cycle the FCG while always holding the hammer with your off-hand so it won't hit your magazine release. You can do this very fast if you apply pressure against the direction the hammer travels, letting you reset it quickly.
shane_huskey
09-13-13, 13:10
Regardless of the manufacturer, I find it a bit silly that anyone would expect a mil-spec trigger to be anything but gritty and/or have some creep when brand new.
If you get one, out of the box, that is smooth and breaks crisp, you found a diamond in the rough. Otherwise, it's really not a representation of the company you purchased it from, unless it proves unreliable.
A very easy way to wear a new trigger in without using ammo is to remove the lower and manually cycle the FCG while always holding the hammer with your off-hand so it won't hit your magazine release. You can do this very fast if you apply pressure against the direction the hammer travels, letting you reset it quickly.
Will this help with trigger creep? I know that will smooth down any burrs that may be present which will smooth out grittiness in a new trigger. If this also can fix trigger creep, then it is worth a try.
That is true, this is only 1 out of many and every other trigger group that BCM uses may be top of the line. I was simply adding this to show that the one that I received does not meet my expectations in case someone does a web search before a potential purchase. I completely agree that a higher quality AR will generally be an overall better weapon.
Honestly, I hope no one is dumb enough to NOT buy a BCM Rifle or Lower because someone posted that a military FCG was either gritty or had creep in it.
C4
Ha just saw he used "top of the line" and GI trigger in the same sentence
Contact the manufacturer and see what they say. If your thoughts are that someone shouldn't buy a BCM because of a trigger that is more or less standard across the board. GI triggers usually suck.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.