View Full Version : The Toyota Hilux in insurgent use
Seems to be one heck of a truck:
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the-toyota-hilux.html
ForTehNguyen
10-14-10, 13:44
its like that Top Gear episode where they were abusing a Hilux and it wouldn't die
Top Gear - Killing a Toyota Parts 1-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg4bBPlWzT8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoDrEBjVr_k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKpnRmNiryc&feature=related
Would love to see a ~250hp ~400ft-lb Hilux diesel here....would trade my Tacoma in with a quickness.
Moose-Knuckle
10-14-10, 14:03
It’s the vehicular equivalent of the AK-47.
Love this quote! ;)
AlL I have driven the past ten years are Tacomas and I would love to get a genuine Hilux. :eek:
its like that Top Gear episode where they were abusing a Hilux and it wouldn't die
Here is another Top Gear great. James May takes the Hilux up to the Iceland Volcano....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFuYJ90BC0Y
I love the Hilux and wish it was offered here.
Moose-Knuckle
10-14-10, 14:55
Here is another Top Gear great. James May takes the Hilux up to the Iceland Volcano....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFuYJ90BC0Y
I love the Hilux and wish it was offered here.
Ahhh the Polar Hilux, pure sex right there!
variablebinary
10-14-10, 15:10
If only the Tacoma was available in a diesel.
The lack of compact diesel trucks on the American market is annoying as hell.
woodandsteel
10-14-10, 15:28
Would love to see a ~250hp ~400ft-lb Hilux diesel here....would trade my Tacoma in with a quickness.
If only the Tacoma was available in a diesel.
The lack of compact diesel trucks on the American market is annoying as hell.
Why are they unavailable here?
Is it due to emission standards? Or is Toyota just choosing not to sell it in the American Market?
Belmont31R
10-14-10, 15:37
Has to do with emissions standards. It can be done but redesigning everything for the US market just to meet our retarded diesel standards isn't a good business decision.
Just on the big trucks Ive read numerous articles in the past that stated it costs the big 3 somewhere around 4-8k per truck to comply with the standards in R&D, parts production, warranty work, ect. Even Ford has said the 6.0 PowerStroke has so many issues because they couldn't get the emissions controls to work right, and that is what was causing the issues. No one wants to take those kinds of risks on a 15-25k dollar truck when the rest of the world doesn't have to put up with that dumb shit.
woodandsteel
10-14-10, 15:44
That stinks.
I guess that's why the Heavier Duty pick up trucks with diesel engines cost so much more.
Von Rheydt
10-14-10, 15:56
Why are they unavailable here?
Is it due to emission standards? Or is Toyota just choosing not to sell it in the American Market?
Funnily enough as a new immigrant to your fair country I asked the same question. Because I wanted one in diesel.
I was given two reasons:
1. Toyota did not want to bother getting the diesel version through type approval.
2. Toyota, as with many other manufacturers, is pandering to some kind of penis shortfall* by offering large engined trucks. And, in its opinion they would not sell enough of the smaller engined trucks to make it worth their while.
Note: * It's what the local guy at Carmax told me, honest, please don't shoot me.
In Euro-land there is the Hilux pickup as a turbo diesel. In Euro-land there are also grey imports of the Japanese equivelent of the Hilux. This vehicle is called the Toyota Surf........funnily enough it looks so similar to the 4Runner that you could not squeeze much of a cigarette paper between the difference. The Surf and Hilux are now both on a 3.0 litre Turbo Diesel Intercooler iteration.........and it goes like snot off a stick with around 23 - 28mpg depending how you drive.
I have mentioned before that I am doing a drive thru the Sahara at the end of 2012. The vehicle of choice for this 6 week adventure is the 4Runner/Surf/Hilux. We intend to buy 3 of them for our small adventure, effectively driving from the UK down thru Europe, into the Sahara and on to Ghana. In Ghana we are going to gift the vehicles to something like the Red Cross or one of the other aid organisations.
I specified the Toyota for a couple of reasons. They are un-killable, as proved by Top Gear, and they are the vehicle of choice in the Saharan and sub-Saharan regions so spares are plentiful. Added to which, in the northern Australian desert 95% of the vehicles are Toyota's compared to any other kind of Ute (thats what Aussies call them, its short for utility vehicle) they are considered the only vehicle reliable enough to go into the outback.
Oh yeah, the guy at Carmax. He also told me that the word in the industry is that Toyota is planning on a diesel 4Runner in 2012. Apparently, market research on the left-coast indicates there would be a huge uptake.
For those interested you can look at UK Hilux's, 4runners and Surf's here........you'll need a postcode, so here is the one for Buckingham Palace SW1A 1AA, when you search do the distance as national:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/
.
variablebinary
10-14-10, 16:22
Has to do with emissions standards. It can be done but redesigning everything for the US market just to meet our retarded diesel standards isn't a good business decision.
Didn't the EPA reduce restrictions in 2007 to help promote diesel light duty engines?
Also, Ultra-low sulfur diesel currently sold in the USA is supposed to be very similar to Euro diesel, so car companies shouldn't have to redesign engines, which was the case before.
The car makers just need to get their thumb out their ass and pull the trigger. We've been teased with diesels from Mazda, Subaru, BMW and Audi for at least 4 years, and still, there is nothing.
kaiservontexas
10-14-10, 16:22
I seriously wish we could buy these trucks!
ForTehNguyen
10-14-10, 17:30
too bad diesel fuel prices are greater or equal to premium. That eats into the savings as well as the higher than the gasoline vehicle price. If it cant pass Cali's CARB standards its never going to make it in the US, thank them for blocking a lot of potentially good vehicles from coming here.
Von Rheydt
10-14-10, 17:32
Didn't the EPA reduce restrictions in 2007 to help promote diesel light duty engines?
Also, Ultra-low sulfur diesel currently sold in the USA is supposed to be very similar to Euro diesel, so car companies shouldn't have to redesign engines, which was the case before.
The car makers just need to get their thumb out their ass and pull the trigger. We've been teased with diesels from Mazda, Subaru, BMW and Audi for at least 4 years, and still, there is nothing.
I ran a VW turbo diesel in Europe. 1.9 litre TDI, 7 seater people carrier, almost 45 mpg if I was highway driving at 65 mph and around 25 - 30 mpg around town.
R&D does not play a big part in bringing these into the US. They mostly all have the technology it only needs to be re-packaged for the US market. I say that because most new model Euro-diesels are touted as exceeding the Euro emission - so that means they are a hair away from the US requirements. Sadly, the manufacturers look at the majority market demands and supply to those customer wants. These wants are gradually changing, as evidenced by the membership here.
MarshallDodge
10-14-10, 18:03
too bad diesel fuel prices are greater or equal to premium. That eats into the savings as well as the higher than the gasoline vehicle price. If it cant pass Cali's CARB standards its never going to make it in the US, thank them for blocking a lot of potentially good vehicles from coming here.
Here in Utah it is about a 5% cost difference between regular unleaded and diesel but when you consider that you typically get 25-50% better mileage then the difference in cost is mute.
too bad diesel fuel prices are greater or equal to premium. That eats into the savings as well as the higher than the gasoline vehicle price. If it cant pass Cali's CARB standards its never going to make it in the US, thank them for blocking a lot of potentially good vehicles from coming here.
Diesel costs all depend on where you are. In some states I have seen it lower than regular unleaded, and in some states much higher. Some states tax it higher due to the over the road trucking.
I run a Dodge RAM 2500 MegaCab with the Cummins so I watch for Diesel prices. Right now in Utah it is a hair below the premium unleaded price. But not that long ago it was right around the regular unleaded price. It fluctuates with time of year as well. Since home heating oil is basically diesel, in winter demand goes up due to the North Easts demand for heating oil.
I ran a VW turbo diesel in Europe. 1.9 litre TDI, 7 seater people carrier, almost 45 mpg if I was highway driving at 65 mph and around 25 - 30 mpg around town.
(Are those US gallons or British Gallons? US MPG may be different since the US Gallon is smaller)
VW (and sister Audi) are about the only really available diesel cars here in the US. The VW diesels are pretty good. Earlier models would get 50mpg plus highway and also much higher combined in real life. Don't know how the current crop does. Not as well due to less energy in the ULSD fuel plus extra emissions crap.
Unfortunately they don't currently have a TDI Passat. Just Jetta and Golf AFAIK
I wish VW would bring the Polo with the 1.4 TDI. In Germany it gets a rating that equals 65 MPG and emissions are less than gasoline models (ie, could be sold on the green factor FWTIW). They could sell a ton of them here. The Polo is a slimmed down golf. Shrink the Golf a little and you get a Polo. Would be a great commuter car and blows the doors off the hybrids and small gas cars others sell here (like the FIT etc)
http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/de3/modelle/polo.html
Von Rheydt
10-14-10, 19:11
(Are those US gallons or British Gallons? US MPG may be different since the US Gallon is smaller)
UK gallons
I wish VW would bring the Polo with the 1.4 TDI. In Germany it gets a rating that equals 65 MPG and emissions are less than gasoline models (ie, could be sold on the green factor FWTIW). They could sell a ton of them here. The Polo is a slimmed down golf. Shrink the Golf a little and you get a Polo. Would be a great commuter car and blows the doors off the hybrids and small gas cars others sell here (like the FIT etc)
Isn't that the one thats sold as the VW GT here in the US?
Tell you what has gone down well in Euro-land and thats the Golf GTD. More recently the little FIAT 500 has been wowing the public..............I like the Arbarth variant:D...........and I see it's coming here.
http://fiat500usa.blogspot.com/
Tip: Mini's, pah pfooey. Once they get to 4 years old they need major expensive replacement parts so keep away.
one of my favs :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKY_OysWu3k
I've been running Toyota diesels in Afghanistan for a couple years now. Used to have a 1981 hilux, but sold it due to bad injectors and a rusted in two frame.
I would buy one for the US in a heartbeat. I know Euros run diesel in everything, as my wife and I have lived there for 8 years.
I gotta believe the fuel prices are a scam. No way can diesel actually be more expensive that gasoline based on just price pressures alone. I think if there was more demand for diesel, fuel manufacturers would produce more and stabilize the price. It should be cheaper, and more available, as you can get more diesel out of oil than gasoline, cheaper.
ForTehNguyen
10-14-10, 21:08
I've been running Toyota diesels in Afghanistan for a couple years now. Used to have a 1981 hilux, but sold it due to bad injectors and a rusted in two frame.
I would buy one for the US in a heartbeat. I know Euros run diesel in everything, as my wife and I have lived there for 8 years.
I gotta believe the fuel prices are a scam. No way can diesel actually be more expensive that gasoline based on just price pressures alone. I think if there was more demand for diesel, fuel manufacturers would produce more and stabilize the price. It should be cheaper, and more available, as you can get more diesel out of oil than gasoline, cheaper.
ultra low sulfur diesel was mandated, which costs more to refine. Diesel long ago always used to be cheaper than regular, now sometimes ive seen it cost more than premium. Diesel is subsidized in Europe also.
I had a Golf TDI R sport as a rental during my last trip to Germany. I was dubious of a diesel, but man was I wrong. That thing would get up and scoot. Max'd it out at ~130mph (210kph) on the Abahn.
Nice and stable at speed. The only thing was I kept forgetting to shift into 6th gear. Haven't tried one here in the States, bet it's detuned and heavier in US trim.
ChicagoTex
10-14-10, 23:55
ultra low sulfur diesel was mandated, which costs more to refine.
Bingo. Once that happened it cost about the same as "mid-grade" gasoline. Since then, the further pricing addition is simply what I believe to be a national cost-shifting scheme (keep gasoline prices a little lower by making diesel prices a little higher) so the average joe will think the oil conglomerates aren't so much out to screw him, while the truckers get pinched.
The irony of this scheme is, since trucking accounts for the bulk of good transportation in this country, everything regular consumers buy that isn't fuel costs more because the truckers had to pay more to get it to them. All a big shell-game.
Diesel prices vary across the country much more than gasoline prices. The biggest difference is the taxes added to diesel. I have driven my Dodge (previous iteration) across the country a few times and there were states where you simply did not buy diesel. Once you knew what states to buy in and which ones to not you were all right. That was all taxes that made the difference.
Diesel varies a lot more in price as well compared to gasoline throughout the year. I watch it a lot and I have watched it go from under or very close to par with regular unleaded and a few months later it is more than premium.
It mostly has to do with supplies, the season, and the weather. An unexpectedly harsh winter in the NE can cause diesel prices to rise, while an unexpectedly mild winter means there is a "glut" of diesel refined and prices will drop.
When winter gets close they ramp up production to meet heating oil needs but if the forecast is wrong on the expected winter weather/temps the price can be affected greatly.
There is no conspiracy as far as I can see to subsidize gasoline with higher diesel prices. Those sorts of things don't work due to the market, the size of the market, and number of players in the market.
Here is a gov webpage that talks about diesel pricing
http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=diesel_factors_affecting_prices
Isn't that the one thats sold as the VW GT here in the US?
No. There is no VW GT in the US. There is the GTI (which is a Golf) and there is the Gold including both gas and TDI diesel versions.
The Polo is a smaller car. Like a shrunk-down Golf. The Polo would sell well here, especially the TDI with humongous MPG ratings. Same market as the Honda FIT, the small Scion, maybe the Fiesta, and all the other small cars that are larger than the SMART POS.
Bolt_Overide
10-15-10, 00:32
I drive a surf around the fob here, and its a nice truck, Id prefer a hilux or something with an open bed, but Ill take what I can get.
ChicagoTex
10-15-10, 01:56
There is no conspiracy as far as I can see to subsidize gasoline with higher diesel prices. Those sorts of things don't work due to the market, the size of the market, and number of players in the market.
Gotta confess, that makes more sense and is certainly favorable under the tried and true Occam's Razor methodology. I confess to not paying attention to variance in diesel prices from state to state - I guess I was making the textbook mistake of extrapolating my personal observations to nationwide facts. :o
I had a Golf TDI R sport as a rental during my last trip to Germany. I was dubious of a diesel, but man was I wrong. That thing would get up and scoot. Max'd it out at ~130mph (210kph) on the Abahn.
Nice and stable at speed. The only thing was I kept forgetting to shift into 6th gear. Haven't tried one here in the States, bet it's detuned and heavier in US trim.
Ya, the new diesel engines run quieter, cleaner and a lot faster than the older ones. Not sure what the guys have over in A'stan but the newer hilux trucks come with a newer generation common-rail direct injection type diesel engine they call the D4D, which, is responsible for the overall boost in performance and even greater fuel efficiency. The new Landcruiser comes in a twin-turbo V8 version of the D4D in Asia.
Ya, the new diesel engines run quieter, cleaner and a lot faster than the older ones. Not sure what the guys have over in A'stan but the newer hilux trucks come with a newer generation common-rail direct injection type diesel engine they call the D4D, which, is responsible for the overall boost in performance and even greater fuel efficiency. The new Landcruiser comes in a twin-turbo V8 version of the D4D in Asia.
There are D4Ds around, but right now am running a Type 76 Cruiser which is old school in every way.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs416.ash2/69444_1540705692039_1666843362_1310170_359515_n.jpg
That is nice! First time Ive ever seen this particular model but I definitely see its silhouette on the 2010 cruiser.
How common are ARB bumbers on Hilux trucks over there? I have yet to see one (US SOF Hilux) in the Philippines that doesnt have atleast this type of bumper on. There's even one with what looked to be a steel plate sealed rear windshield.
citizensoldier16
10-15-10, 11:38
Another good one: :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2GzjjiiFBw&NR=1
Saw this over on Pirate4X4 and thought some of you might like to read it. The photo gallery is worth a look also.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the-toyota-hilux.html
My daily driver is an 82 4x4 I'm restoring so I always enjoy seeing the punishment these little trucks can take.
Moose-Knuckle
10-19-10, 19:00
Someone beat you to the punch. . . :cool:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64604
Damn. I gave a good look but somehow knew this would be a dupe. Thanks.
There are D4Ds around, but right now am running a Type 76 Cruiser which is old school in every way.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs416.ash2/69444_1540705692039_1666843362_1310170_359515_n.jpg
Old school as in a live-axle truck made for serious offroading, but with some modern refinements.
I really hate that the U.S. missed out on the 70 series. I've been able to drive a few overseas and would love to be able to own one here.
Toyota basically figured out that the U.S. wanted "mall-cruisers" by the late 80's, which is why we have Tacomas and RAV4s when the rest of the world still gets the Hilux, 70, etc.
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