View Full Version : The neighbor has got some problems
Background:
I moved into a new house three weeks ago and don't know anyone on the street. It is pretty quiet around here with very low traffic. The only neighbor I have seen, who lives across the street, has a couple of pitbulls and walks them regularly. I have two small children (with one on the way) and one of the dogs was giving my youngest the eye last weekend while being restrained by the owner (I was armed at the time and pulled the kids into the house).
Fast forward to an hour ago:
I was sitting here reading email and posting on various forums when I heard screaming and dogs fighting. The neighbor's door was open and from my living room, with my front door open as well, I could see dogs fighting and an adult male in the middle.
I grabbed my .45 of the book shelf, told the wife to lock the doors, and walked across the street calmly. I looked in to see two dogs fighting and who I thought was the neighbor trying to break up the fight...there was blood everywhere. Since the guy was in the middle there was no clear shot so I ran from the front door to the middle of the room and kicked the closest dog in the head. I turned to shoot the second but the neighbor was in the way restraining the dog. The dog I kicked was cowering in a bedroom so I closed the door while the neighbor dragged the second dog to a separate room.
I pulled the neighbor out of the house and sat him down on the porch, he had puncture wounds up and down his arms and hands. He was bleeding pretty good so I gave him a lift to the ER since its only three miles away.
After I got to the ER I found out that the guy was just house-sitting and they weren't his dogs. Isn't that just a bitch? Chewed up by some dogs you were watching as a favor to a friend.
As of right now the dogs are still locked up in the house where we put them and the guy is still at the ER. I have half a mind to go over there and shoot the dogs but the ER said they had to call the police so animal control will come get the dogs shortly.
BushmasterFanBoy
07-21-07, 14:32
Wow, sucks to be him. You've gone out on your initiative to help someone who sounds like he needed it. At this point I'd sit back and keep to myself , look after your own, and don't go any further. It isn't your problem, you already did more than enough by helping the guy. Keep us updated on what happens.
Yeah, I would hold off on executing the dogs. Sounds like you used good judgement AND some moxy. That guy owes you a case.
My neighbor is the opposite, after one altercation with him over his pits I am waiting for them to savage him. I will eat popcorn as I watch:D .
Pat_Rogers
07-21-07, 14:50
And how would you justify entering someone else's domicile, and shooting two dogs within, after the fact? That is, when there was no immediate danger?
Not only is it criminal, but the civil issues- and the ethical issues- are substantial.
Good on you for getting involved- not everyone would.
I would not transport anyone not a member of my family or a member of my team in my MV when they are bleeding, regardless of age, sex etc. This was apparently not a life threatening injury. Why jeopardize your life, the well being of your family for this? Blood born nonsense is out there, and the professionals have the ability to do it safely as well as decon their ride and gear. Call 911 and let them do it, correctly.
In the mid 80's i shot and killed my neighbor's Pit (a fighting dog). I would rather that not have happened, but he attacked my dog and when i put that first bullet into his heart he had his teeth wrapped around my leg.
He didn't even blink. I put 3 more into the same space and he released me and rapidly exsanguinated (I saved two for the owner).
I think I would get animal control involved. As Pat said, you can't do it legally, but getting documentation on the dogs is the best thing you can do. There might be some bad blood with the neighbor across the street, but if the dogs have been eying your kids, it's probably worth the hassle.
Pat you always bring in some serious kick-in-the-nuts opinions/facts but they are good points.
Obviously his first instinct is to help and not be worried about his own ass. I like that and I am not saying you are bad for that not being your instincts. Your instincts are your instincts- you can't help that.
As far as going back into the house afterwards- I'm sure he was just expressing his feelings towards the dogs, not his intent or desire.
Those dogs will be dead soon enough. They won't live past their stay at animal control.
There's nothing stopping those dogs from attacking you when you go to lock the house back up and secure it for your neighbor, at which point you may have to kill them. I'd make sure to check the windows in the bedroom the dog was locked up in to make sure they are locked and take something with a higher capacity in case you miss a few times. There's no reloading with a pit bull on your arm.
I just got home from taking my family shopping and watched the dogs get loaded into someone's car and driven away. Wonderful.
As far as going back into the house afterwards- I'm sure he was just expressing his feelings towards the dogs, not his intent or desire.
I had no intent to go back in, just would love to do the deed myself given the circumstances. Since I don't know the home owner they are on their own from here.
A little souvenir.
http://i17.tinypic.com/52vhdf5.jpg
Patrick Aherne
07-21-07, 18:09
There's nothing stopping those dogs from attacking you when you go to lock the house back up and secure it for your neighbor, at which point you may have to kill them. I'd make sure to check the windows in the bedroom the dog was locked up in to make sure they are locked and take something with a higher capacity in case you miss a few times. There's no reloading with a pit bull on your arm.
You can't go and manufacture your own exigent circumstances. If you're that worried about the property, call the local police/sheriff and tell them the property needs to be secured and inform them about the vicious dogs so they can respond with animal control.
I had a landlord try this crap on me a few months ago. He wanted me to go in and execute a dirtbag's pit so he could measure for new drapes or something. It didn't work out the way he wanted it to.
We have had 2 dog shootings in the past few years. Surprisingly, none were pit bulls. Both were American Bulldogs. One didnt like the fact that we were executing a search warrant. The other didnt like the old lady and her German Shepherd walking in front of the house. One dog was hit with a .40 gold dot and lived. The other was shot in the head with a 9mm gold dot. Dead dog.
Make sure you follow up with your local pd and report the incident. Document the agressiveness of these animals. Good luck.
Patrick-
I was completely joking after the fact when I knew it didn't matter.
Patrick Aherne
07-21-07, 18:47
Sorry, didn't catch the sarcasm.
Nathan_Bell
07-21-07, 19:04
We have had 2 dog shootings in the past few years. Surprisingly, none were pit bulls. Both were American Bulldogs. One didnt like the fact that we were executing a search warrant. The other didnt like the old lady and her German Shepherd walking in front of the house. One dog was hit with a .40 gold dot and lived. The other was shot in the head with a 9mm gold dot. Dead dog.
Make sure you follow up with your local pd and report the incident. Document the agressiveness of these animals. Good luck.
One piece of advice for anyone who has to tangle with a dog for real.
Make sure it has stopped coming for you.
I grew up on a farm where the neighbors had a pack of 6 dogs that I just did not trust during calving season. Told the neighbor that I would shoot the dogs if they were a threat to the cattle, told the sheriff I would shoot the dogs.
Long story short, went to run them off, they decided not to run off. Hit one in the head with a .45 acp flipping in around, hit another right in the chest and clipped its head. The other 4 took off after this. The first I had hit was back on its feet growling and still in control enough that I was concerned it could still attack me, so I shot it a few more times.
Lessons I learned from this:
A pistol is a really stupid tool for chasing dogs off with when you have the chance to pick up something better.
Dogs can move REALLY fast.
A calf would not have been worth getting mauled over.
A headshot does not guarantee something stopping.
Not trying to hijack, but anytime you have to deal with a canine that wants to sample your wares, remember to make sure they are down and out of the fight. 17 years ago and still thankful that the other 4 broke and ran.
Make sure you follow up with your local pd and report the incident. Document the agressiveness of these animals. Good luck.
Local PD just left. He spoke with the guy who was bitten and inspected the premises. Afterward the guy who was bitten came over and thanked me for getting involved. He ended up with stitches in both arms and a fracture as well as bruising and swelling (he looked pretty sore).
Overall I'm glad no shots were fired, I don't need that complication in my life right now.
Glad you got ahold of the local PD and had everything documented. That helps not only in the CYA department, but also gives those dogs and anyone involved with them a history in case the dogs end up chewing on someone else later on down the road. Around here, one documented people attack = quarantine, two = quick trip to the needle.
I had to shoot a dog several years ago after it clamped down on my leg during a warrant service. Unpleasant to put it lightly.
those dogs won't be chewing on anything else ever. maybe except for the pole with the noose on the end the controller uses to shove them into the incinerator with.
remember, once an animal like a dog attacks a human, it's game over. there's no rehabilitation.
This makes me glad I haven't swapped the 13 round .357SIG for the 8 round 1911 as my carry pistol...
The officer was told the dogs had been taken to a Vet., which I don't doubt. The dogs will not be taken away since the owner claimed this was not a dog attack, just two dogs fighting and he got caught in the middle.
I just got home from taking my family shopping and watched the dogs get loaded into someone's car and driven away. Wonderful.
Unbelieveable. :rolleyes:
Someone, somewhere, someday is f-cked due to that big loophole in the law. Hopefully it's not somebody's child.
Patrick Aherne
07-22-07, 20:46
Dogs are very, very fast. Dogs in numbers can act with pack behavior. One will try to get your attention, while the other come around to your rear to go for your soft bits. Remember, unless its a 150 lb. rott, you're probably bigger and stronger and going to win. OC works great followed by a stiff kick to the head.
If you're going to shoot, be aware that the dog will be moving, you will be moving and it is quite easy to shoot yourself.
Contrary to popular belief on TOS, I've been a cop for 14 years and never had to shoot a dog. I have been in a number of fights with dogs and was a K9 officer for six years, so I'm not afraid of getting bit. Dogs are dangerous, especially to small females and children.
I'll echo the kudos for getting involved ... you very could have saved that guy's life ultimately.
A neighbor on an adjacent street has a pit bull and their dog attacked the dog of one of my immediate neighbors a few months back. They were walking their dog and when they passed the house that owned the pit bull their dog was immediately attacked.
Their dog was seriously injured but survived. They called animal control. As far as I know, the offending animal is still in the neighborhood. After that incident my wife never gave me the "look" when I grabbed my gun before leaving for a family walk. Before that incident she's always shake her head as I put the holser on ... now she asks "do you have your gun" before we leave the house.
Dogs are very, very fast. Dogs in numbers can act with pack behavior. One will try to get your attention, while the other come around to your rear to go for your soft bits. Remember, unless its a 150 lb. rott, you're probably bigger and stronger and going to win. OC works great followed by a stiff kick to the head.
If you're going to shoot, be aware that the dog will be moving, you will be moving and it is quite easy to shoot yourself.
Contrary to popular belief on TOS, I've been a cop for 14 years and never had to shoot a dog. I have been in a number of fights with dogs and was a K9 officer for six years, so I'm not afraid of getting bit. Dogs are dangerous, especially to small females and children.
I will definitely disagree with that statement. A dog half my weight will easily take me out. The dog uses all of it's muscle and is an expert at latching on and pulling rearward. Us humans are going to fall over towards the dog and if you are not very lucky, your face will get chewed up. You won't be getting back up at any rate...
I disagree also, 150 pound rott......so youre saying that a 140 pound great dane won't jack you up to the point of not bieng able to properly defend yourself or the public you are sworn to defend? Let alone a 50 pound dalmation ( which by the way are far more human agressive than pits ) I would hope that your police training had atleast a little bit of focus on not setting yourself up for an asshanding....I mean really, if you can't make proper judgements for protecting yourself from a viable threat ,and, I also hope you were trained in recognizing possible threats.....how pray tell, do you propose to protect my young daughter and wife from anything other than a ......wait for it....... 150 pound rott.:confused: :confused:
Patrick Aherne
07-25-07, 18:18
I disagree also, 150 pound rott......so youre saying that a 140 pound great dane won't jack you up to the point of not bieng able to properly defend yourself or the public you are sworn to defend? Let alone a 50 pound dalmation ( which by the way are far more human agressive than pits ) I would hope that your police training had atleast a little bit of focus on not setting yourself up for an asshanding....I mean really, if you can't make proper judgements for protecting yourself from a viable threat ,and, I also hope you were trained in recognizing possible threats.....how pray tell, do you propose to protect my young daughter and wife from anything other than a ......wait for it....... 150 pound rott.:confused: :confused:
Please don't put words in my mouth. My point, is that unless you are facing a large, human-sized dog, you can fight them and win, even if you don't have a gun. What's important to remember is not to do anything that activates their prey drive, like screaming and running away. It seems like every year or two we read a story about a fully grown human male getting killed by a pit bull somewhere. This shouldn't happen.
Everyone has their own level of fear and idea of what is a reasonable threat and what isn't based on their size, training, past experiences and current situation. Mine is, I am sure, different from yours. I wouldn't have any problem investigating a shooting of a large aggressive dog by a citizen. Leash laws are there for a reason and if a dog gets out and menaces folks, too bad for the dog.
I've never felt comfortable with shooting a dog that is just protecting its house/territory, even though I could have, several times. I've been able to back away, OC spray, kick in the head, hit with a baton, etc. to avoid shooting dogs that were just doing their job, even if their owner was a dirtbag. Your level of fear may be appropriate for your circumstances. Please do not presume that you can infer anything about my training or experiences for anything other than the matter at hand.
Nope, no words in your mouth that you haven't already used. I don't think I can take on a dog half my weight like I already said. You say I can win against one that is 150 lbs and that is total BS.
I don't care if I've even had training, I'll still "activate" their prey instincts by fighting back. Their "prey" instincts are also triggered by live animals fighting back- that's why they lose interest in stuffed animals so quickly.
So, you'll surely activate their "prey" instincts.
What then?
I WILL shoot the dog if it weighs 60lbs and is chargin me. I can EASILY defend that choice in IN. I surely have reason to fear great bodily harm by a dog that size if he looks to be attacking. I know that I can't wrestle one away or outrun one. I will also have a hard time shooting him once I wait until he does attack me so I WILL be able to defend my shooting once the dog has made his choice.
Not even about fear levels, or your "level" of training sir!:rolleyes: It's really an intelligence issue. Well maybe you live in some town where cotton candy grows on trees and all the dogs have no teeth nor a basist survival instinct exponentially stronger than ours.
kudo's to the dude who started this thread!!!! and BS to the guy who hijacked this thread and talks about himself too much. I feel dumber for you. PS my good friend has been a cop for 16 years in a meth infested town....he also calls bs on you...
the1911fan
07-26-07, 14:12
Please don't put words in my mouth. My point, is that unless you are facing a large, human-sized dog, you can fight them and win, even if you don't have a gun. What's important to remember is not to do anything that activates their prey drive, like screaming and running away. It seems like every year or two we read a story about a fully grown human male getting killed by a pit bull somewhere. This shouldn't happen.
I somewhat agree..it depends on the dog I reckon. When I was 5 or 6 YO
(1974/1975)I was riding my big wheel and was attacked by a Doberman. The dog bit me several times around the left shoulder/left arm. I was able to get off the big wheel and pick it up and beat the dog with it. I don't know how many times I hit the dog but once the dog ran off I peddled home.
When I got home I remember my Dad putting bandages on my wounds. About 3-4 hours after the attack the dogs owner from down the street came to our door wanting my Dad to pay for Vet bills. The dogs left eye was damaged from a big wheel blow so much that the dog was blind in that eye. My Dad showed the guy my wounds and explained what happened, I remember my Dad yelling at the guy and the guy leaving.
Another time in a residential area I made a traffic stop and noticed two Rotts up a drive looking at me. I continued to approach the car I stopped and one of the Rotts charged down the driveway and was coming right at me, I was in between the patrol car and the stopped car. I turned toward the dog and unholstered my gun and I started to yell commands at the dog. I quickly decided if the dog crossed the double yellow I was shooting it. The dog stopped just short of the double yellows as if it knew something bad was about to happen, I was amazed that the dog stopped just a split second before I was going to shoot. After abruptly stopping, the dog raised its head looking me in the eye and sniffed once or twice and turned and ran back to the house.
I have shot and killed a dog (pit bull) during a foot chase and yes I was in the dogs backyard but so was the suspect we were chasing and I had no other option. I have a healthy respect for dogs and I have had dogs ever since I was 10 YO but I have no problem with shooting a dog that is attacking me.
Patrick Aherne
07-26-07, 16:03
Not even about fear levels, or your "level" of training sir!:rolleyes: It's really an intelligence issue. Well maybe you live in some town where cotton candy grows on trees and all the dogs have no teeth nor a basist survival instinct exponentially stronger than ours.
kudo's to the dude who started this thread!!!! and BS to the guy who hijacked this thread and talks about himself too much. I feel dumber for you. PS my good friend has been a cop for 16 years in a meth infested town....he also calls bs on you...
Yeah..."basist survival instinct" is that where the band is so bad that the crowd wants to kill them so the bassist runs first?:D
Heavy Metal
07-26-07, 16:23
I was once in the middle of nowhere working when three large dogs started running toward me.
For some reason, at the time I was in a really, really once in every two year pissed off mad mood. Instead of shitting my paints, I did something else.
I picked up a piece of deadwood and ran toward them screaming like an axe murderer.
Once I started toward them, they stopped barking and got a suprised expression. They turned and ran off.
It seems that charging them really screwed with their fight or flight instinct.
I don't know if I would have the balls to do that again.
I now carry a nice large can of pepper spray.
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