View Full Version : M&P Trigger job
Is anyone still doing their own? The easiest solution seems APEX, but can you do it yourself and it be comparable?What about the firing pin block, just buy it also, or smooth and polish the factory one? Is it worth the time?
Order the APEX kit and be done with it. Its worth it. There is a reason it seems that people are not doing their own trigger jobs anymore.
Robb Jensen
10-16-10, 09:28
Apex is 'the way' with an M&P!
RogerinTPA
10-16-10, 09:32
Depends on what you want to do. I simply wanted a smoother trigger and a decent trigger reset. The Apex Sear did both, as well as drop the trigger pull from 6.5lbs to around 3.5-4lbs. The striker block helps make the trigger even smoother. That's as far as I've gone and I'm completely satisfied with the results, although I didn't really have a big issue with the stock triggers. Randy of Apex, has a YouTube vid to help you install it on your own. That's what I did. The striker block is just as easy. Anything else, I'd get the M&P DVD so you don't screw the pooch or simply send it in to Apex or G&RTactical to have the other options installed. Since I have 4 M&Ps, I got the DVD so I could learn to disassemble the entire weapon.
Just buy the APEX. Its easy and fast. Also keep the old parts just in case in the unlikely event you have to send your gun back to Smith. If you modify the sear, they will probably not be very happy about that when it shows back up at Springfield.
RogerinTPA
10-16-10, 12:38
Just buy the APEX. Its easy and fast. Also keep the old parts just in case in the unlikely event you have to send your gun back to Smith. If you modify the sear, they will probably not be very happy about that when it shows back up at Springfield.
That is the rumor, however, I still don't get it. If it's MY pistol and have had custom work done to it, who is S&W to replace your custom parts with stock and not return your parts? Sounds like a law suit to me. I'll about to send one back to replace a slide stop that broke off. I will call them and include in the letter, that they not replace anything but the broken part.
I just picked up a new M&P9 with the Apex/DCAEK kit preinstalled, from Grant at G&R Tactical. This is the best trigger I've yet experienced on an M&P, after owning several and trying a couple of M&P's that had custom trigger jobs on them. It's perfect for carry. It may actually be just a tad bit lighter than I'd prefer (the concern being with ND's or AD's), but all things considered, I think it's the best thing going.
SWATcop556
10-16-10, 13:45
My thoughts are why take the chance of FUBAR'ing a trigger job when Apex gives you a true "drop in" trigger job.
The M&P is a great platform and Apex as made it lightyears better.
My thoughts are why take the chance of FUBAR'ing a trigger job when Apex gives you a true "drop in" trigger job.
The M&P is a great platform and Apex as made it lightyears better.
I'm going to go apex, just read where it was easy, and I enjoy the line of work.
I have a full size 45 I sent to the S&W PC for their trigger/action job. Had the gun back in five working days and shipping was only $30 from Oregon to Mass. I was quite impressed with the gun when I got it back, trigger was much smoother, it actually had a reset I could feel and trigger pull dropped from just over 9#s to under 5! Only complaint is that they don't replace the striker block, they just round it off with a dremel ( the silver "ball" under the slide towards the rear). I also have a FS 357sig and a compact 357sig that I did the full job on using Apex parts. Both guns were finished in under an hour but you need a sight pusher! The trigger on both these M&Ps feels much smoother than the factory job and cost was approx 1/2. Do it yourself, there really isn't much involved and the M&Ps are very user "friendly" in terms of parts removal/replacement. KEEP YOUR OLD PARTS, what was mentioned above is true about S&W yanking any non-factory parts if you send the gun in for warranty service and the fact you did this could completely invalidate the warranty if they wanted to push it. Bottom line is the Apex parts install will provide you a much better trigger than the PC action/trigger job and at a lower cost!
That is the rumor, however, I still don't get it. If it's MY pistol and have had custom work done to it, who is S&W to replace your custom parts with stock and not return your parts? Sounds like a law suit to me. I'll about to send one back to replace a slide stop that broke off. I will call them and include in the letter, that they not replace anything but the broken part.
I have never heard of them removing your custom parts and replacing them with stock parts, have you? If your pistol is modified from stock, they will likely charge you for any broken parts that you request them to fix since you will have voided your warranty by installing the aftermarket parts.
That is why people advise to hold-on to the factory parts. If you need to send your M&P in for warranty work not related to the custom/aftermarket internal parts, then you can re-install the stock parts before sending it back to S&W, and your M&P will still be under the factory warranty.
That is pretty much common practice in-terms of warranty coverage for all firearms manufacturers. You or someone else modifies it from factory specs, you void your warranty.
In my opinion the Bowie LX trigger job is by far the nicest trigger available for the M&P.
While i DO like the Apex parts and think Randy is an absolute blessing to the platform i am unhappy with the revolver like trigger that my M&P's sported prior to my removing three APEX sears. I have gone back to factory sears as i find it easier to deal with a little bit of over travel than the massive amounts of pre travel found on an apex equipped gun.
The only mod that i make to my stock sears is a slight bit of material removal and polish at the edge of the sear that controls trigger break weight. I prefer to stick to 4.5 pound triggers when possible.
At 100 dollars for the bowie trigger job its only 11 dollars more than a DCAK from Apex. IF you have multiple M&P's and dont mind being without one for a little bit i would without a doubt pursue the LX trigger mod.
+1 on BTC. I have his "S" trigger job on all of my M&Ps (one still pending). It smooths take up while giving a positive reset. Just be warned the "LX" is VERY short (almost 1911 like), if you like that...have at it. Personally, for my purposes, I like the "S" (Tho, if I had a manual safety M&P I would probably go LX ala 1911). Whatever you choose, David Bowie is a standup guy who does amazing work...just be prepared for a long wait.
I had never fully taken apart my M&P before getting the APEX trigger kit. It is super easy to do, the youtube videos are very helpful and I found the customer service to be great when I called with ?'s.
I performed all the trigger work on my M&P and it feels great. It's about 4.5lbs, breaks crisply, and has a very tactile reset for an M&P. While the APEX parts are moderately priced, I feel the work and satisfaction of performing it yourself is more than worth it. Also, I love taking everything apart so...
In my opinion the Bowie LX trigger job is by far the nicest trigger available for the M&P.
While i DO like the Apex parts and think Randy is an absolute blessing to the platform i am unhappy with the revolver like trigger that my M&P's sported prior to my removing three APEX sears. I have gone back to factory sears as i find it easier to deal with a little bit of over travel than the massive amounts of pre travel found on an apex equipped gun.
The only mod that i make to my stock sears is a slight bit of material removal and polish at the edge of the sear that controls trigger break weight. I prefer to stick to 4.5 pound triggers when possible.
At 100 dollars for the bowie trigger job its only 11 dollars more than a DCAK from Apex. IF you have multiple M&P's and dont mind being without one for a little bit i would without a doubt pursue the LX trigger mod.
You have to remember when figuring in trigger jobs on guns, the shipping cost. At a minimum, there is a $30 dollar fee and realistically for most, a $50-$70 fee. Then you have the turn around time. This will vary from gunsmith to gunsmith, but is generally a 3-6 month wait.
C4
Thats very true, i mentioned the timeframe, i didnt mention the added cost. Thanks for pointing that out Grant!
Still, all in all, if i didnt know that randy had a forward sitting sear and trigger bar in the works i would go with the bowie LX trigger regardless of cost. It really does need to be felt to be believed. Alot of people compare the apex parts to a finely tuned 1911 trigger, at one point i did too but this is only in regards to the actual break. There is alot more at work here as the break is only part of the equation. Overall trigger travel and reset distance are paramount when shooting for speed AND accuracy at least in my eyes.
Alot of shooters will disagree, namely HK LEM fellas and i wont really argue as i firmly believe that ANY trigger can be mastered and shot well with a bit of training. I do however believe that as it currently stands the APEX sear makes the M&P far too revolver like.
drummerdude1188
12-24-10, 00:05
Thats very true, i mentioned the timeframe, i didnt mention the added cost. Thanks for pointing that out Grant!
Still, all in all, if i didnt know that randy had a forward sitting sear and trigger bar in the works i would go with the bowie LX trigger regardless of cost. It really does need to be felt to be believed. Alot of people compare the apex parts to a finely tuned 1911 trigger, at one point i did too but this is only in regards to the actual break. There is alot more at work here as the break is only part of the equation. Overall trigger travel and reset distance are paramount when shooting for speed AND accuracy at least in my eyes.
Alot of shooters will disagree, namely HK LEM fellas and i wont really argue as i firmly believe that ANY trigger can be mastered and shot well with a bit of training. I do however believe that as it currently stands the APEX sear makes the M&P far too revolver like.
Sorry this thread is a little old but I just got an M&P, put around 300 rounds though it and the trigger is super gritty. I was thinking about getting the APEX dcaek, help this.
When you refer to the APEX sear are you talking about the whole DCAEK or just the sear, or are they one in the same?
Thats very true, i mentioned the timeframe, i didnt mention the added cost. Thanks for pointing that out Grant!
Still, all in all, if i didnt know that randy had a forward sitting sear and trigger bar in the works i would go with the bowie LX trigger regardless of cost. It really does need to be felt to be believed. Alot of people compare the apex parts to a finely tuned 1911 trigger, at one point i did too but this is only in regards to the actual break. There is alot more at work here as the break is only part of the equation. Overall trigger travel and reset distance are paramount when shooting for speed AND accuracy at least in my eyes.
Alot of shooters will disagree, namely HK LEM fellas and i wont really argue as i firmly believe that ANY trigger can be mastered and shot well with a bit of training. I do however believe that as it currently stands the APEX sear makes the M&P far too revolver like.
So the reset with the DCAEK is not short like a Glock?
G34Shooter
12-24-10, 08:32
My thoughts are why take the chance of FUBAR'ing a trigger job when Apex gives you a true "drop in" trigger job.
The M&P is a great platform and Apex as made it lightyears better.
Exactly, reshaping the stock sear which goes past the hardening process to the softened MIM center is not a good idea for a defensive type handgun.
G34Shooter
12-24-10, 08:36
edit: Grant covered it.
G34Shooter
12-24-10, 08:42
So the reset with the DCAEK is not short like a Glock?
Yes it is, he is not a fan of the pre-travel.
You can see how far it travels internally and externally in this video of my gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp2fmox8uJ8
Lucky Strike
12-24-10, 09:06
I just got an M&P with the full APEX kit from Grant. Personally I like the pull on it better then my friends M&P that has a Burwell job on it. The reset on the Burwell job is super shot.....too short for my liking.
I also think real short reset length is a little overrated as far as speed shooting goes. For me it can be too long, like it was on my stock P30...it was just annoyingly long there for when I was going for real accuracy. I sent it to Bruce Gray and it's now the same length as on my APEX'd which seems perfect.
When you're really shooting for speed though going real fast (like doing a bill drill) and under the recoil of the gun and all that goin' on IMO I just don't think a person's finger can really reliably stop a couple tenths of an inch less when letting off the trigger. Maybe some folks can but it doesn't seem realistic to me.
When you refer to the APEX sear are you talking about the whole DCAEK or just the sear, or are they one in the same?
The gritty feeling went away on mine with just the striker block. I installed it first.
Sorry this thread is a little old but I just got an M&P, put around 300 rounds though it and the trigger is super gritty. I was thinking about getting the APEX dcaek, help this.
When you refer to the APEX sear are you talking about the whole DCAEK or just the sear, or are they one in the same?
Im referring to the entire situation as a mix and match of parts has nothing to do with overall trigger travel.
The apex sear gives the same trigger travel properties by itself as it does with the rest of the DCAEK. The difference comes in pull weight and break weight.
If you dont mind alot of pre travel you will love the DCAEK as it does smooth every thing up significantly.
Hi Guys,
Just a quick update. I will be testing out our new Forward Set sear this upcoming week. This should take care of most of the pre-travel and allow people who prefer the striker release point to be towards the front of the trigger stroke.
I am also working on the matching trigger that will reduce overtravel.
The sear should work well for gunsmiths who prefer to adjust the sear cam to suit their personal preferences.
-Randy
So there is a good bit of travel before the break on reset, with the DCAEK?
That is the rumor, however, I still don't get it. If it's MY pistol and have had custom work done to it, who is S&W to replace your custom parts with stock and not return your parts? Sounds like a law suit to me. I'll about to send one back to replace a slide stop that broke off. I will call them and include in the letter, that they not replace anything but the broken part.
They return the Apex parts with the pistol. Liability sake they won't return the gun from warranty work with after-market Fire Control parts installed.
That is the rumor, however, I still don't get it. If it's MY pistol and have had custom work done to it, who is S&W to replace your custom parts with stock and not return your parts? Sounds like a law suit to me. I'll about to send one back to replace a slide stop that broke off. I will call them and include in the letter, that they not replace anything but the broken part.
Ruger's notorious for removing all custom parts and not returning them with the gun. It's pretty much a known fact, though, and anybody who recommends sending a gun in for factory service there will warn you to swap out all the custom stuff before sending it off.
Exactly, reshaping the stock sear which goes past the hardening process to the softened MIM center is not a good idea for a defensive type handgun.
I can't imagine that the minute ammount of pressure from the trigger bar is going to place any real wear and tear on the sear. MIM parts are used without issue in much harsher roles.
I think the real worry (where the sear is concerned) is taking off too much material or taking it off in the wrong area.
I can't imagine that the minute ammount of pressure from the trigger bar is going to place any real wear and tear on the sear. MIM parts are used without issue in much harsher roles.
I think the real worry (where the sear is concerned) is taking off too much material or taking it off in the wrong area.
Its not the trigger bar lobe area on the sear that people are worried about.
It is the part that interacts with the striker. The simple fact of the matter is that cutting into an MIM piece that has been surface hardened is generally not a good idea for long term durability as you cut through the hardening and you now have a HARDER piece, ie the striker interacting with a softer piece.
I have seen "trigger jobs" go full auto or fail to catch the striker upon reset because of this.
G34Shooter
12-24-10, 23:01
Its not the trigger bar lobe area on the sear that people are worried about.
It is the part that interacts with the striker. The simple fact of the matter is that cutting into an MIM piece that has been surface hardened is generally not a good idea for long term durability as you cut through the hardening and you now have a HARDER piece, ie the striker interacting with a softer piece.
I have seen "trigger jobs" go full auto or fail to catch the striker upon reset because of this.
Exactly :cool:
Its not the trigger bar lobe area on the sear that people are worried about.
It is the part that interacts with the striker. The simple fact of the matter is that cutting into an MIM piece that has been surface hardened is generally not a good idea for long term durability as you cut through the hardening and you now have a HARDER piece, ie the striker interacting with a softer piece.
I have seen "trigger jobs" go full auto or fail to catch the striker upon reset because of this.
That makes sense.
I wasn't aware of that mod. The only work I've seen/done involving the sear was limited to the ramp where the trigger bar engages.
I wouldn't touch that area... I assume it's to reduce weight?
Hi Guys,
Just a quick update. I will be testing out our new Forward Set sear this upcoming week. This should take care of most of the pre-travel and allow people who prefer the striker release point to be towards the front of the trigger stroke.
I am also working on the matching trigger that will reduce overtravel.
The sear should work well for gunsmiths who prefer to adjust the sear cam to suit their personal preferences.
-Randy
I am looking forward to trying out a couple of the new Apex Tactical forward sitting sears and new triggers when they become available . I know that with the M&P pistols some people shoot them better using the larger grip insert even though they may prefer the feel of the smaller grip insert. I am curious to see if the new Apex sear/trigger combo will improve the shootability or accuracy for those that use the small grip insert.
I'm fairly handy with tools and minor modifications on weapons but I would not want to try my hand at doing a trigger job on a M&P. In my experience, the trigger job performed by Burwell Gunsmithing (http://www.burwellguns.com/Services.htm) is very good and quite affordable.
StrikerFired
01-01-11, 14:11
Haven't used an APEX sear in any guns but there is a local gunsmith here that makes a new part itself that replicates the feel of a "worked" sear. It's pretty smooth and I know a lotta folks who like them. PM me if you are interested on the info.
G34Shooter
01-01-11, 14:28
Haven't used an APEX sear in any guns but there is a local gunsmith here that makes a new part itself that replicates the feel of a "worked" sear. It's pretty smooth and I know a lotta folks who like them. PM me if you are interested on the info.
For under $40 you get a sear made out of A2 Tool Steel as opposed to someone reworking the stock MIM sear that was cut through the hardening process. Is it really worth saving a couple dollars?
RogerinTPA
01-01-11, 15:51
They return the Apex parts with the pistol. Liability sake they won't return the gun from warranty work with after-market Fire Control parts installed.
Ruger's notorious for removing all custom parts and not returning them with the gun. It's pretty much a known fact, though, and anybody who recommends sending a gun in for factory service there will warn you to swap out all the custom stuff before sending it off.
Thanks for validating the info. I'll keep that in mind when I send it back to S&W.
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