View Full Version : Ultramax Ammo KB's yet another AR.
Heavy Metal
07-21-07, 21:54
Good pics at the link:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/500103904/m/9621034932/p/1
damn, I have about 600 rounds of the ammo...hopefully it will turn out alright when I am shooting it............
Johnnyvegas
07-21-07, 22:34
damn, I have about 600 rounds of the ammo...hopefully it will turn out alright when I am shooting it............
Your willing to shoot the stuff after someone elses rifle goes kerblammo with it (and all the bad press ultramax has recieved on other forums?)........................Your braver than I am!!!!!!!!
John
Your willing to shoot the stuff after someone elses rifle goes kerblammo with it (and all the bad press ultramax has recieved on other forums?)........................Your braver than I am!!!!!!!!
Johnjust about every ammo maker has had some sort of Kaboom and if I listened to all the stories that go around all the time, I would just shoot my bow..... yes, I will shoot it and won't worry about it.....
if I listened to all the stories that go around all the time, I would just shoot my bow..
I don't know man. Back in the bad old days I can recall more then one laminated bow limb shattering into a million pieces! Could be dangerous too! ;)
I don't know man. Back in the bad old days I can recall more then one laminated bow limb shattering into a million pieces! Could be dangerous too! ;)good one:)
Heavy Metal
07-22-07, 10:43
just about every ammo maker has had some sort of Kaboom and if I listened to all the stories that go around all the time, I would just shoot my bow..... yes, I will shoot it and won't worry about it.....
The key word in my post is 'another'.
This is Ultramax, not Black Hills. All commercial reloads are not equal.
Ultramax had developed quite a reputation for blowing up rifles. This is another in a long line of many such incidents.
Pay you money and take your chances, it is your rifle.
There are, by far, more available reports of KB's with Ultramax than just about any other manufacturer, and its not even close. Sure, every maker builds a bum round once in a while, but there's a huge stack of reports of KB's where Ultramax was the ammo being used at the time. If I have to choose between chucking a $300 case of ammo or my $1500 worth of rifle, that's a no brainer to me.
Alpha Sierra
07-22-07, 16:13
I have some Ultramag 125 gr 38 Special for wheelgun practice/training and as soon as it is gone it will be the last of them I ever buy.
I just ran 1K worth of Ultramax at a shooting school. No issues at all.
All reloaded Ammo is going to give you a kaboom at some time or another. The only part that really matters is how the manufacturer handles it.
C4
Alpha Sierra
07-22-07, 16:54
Grant, I don't see why.
The only difference between reloaded ammo and first run is that the brass has already been used once or more in the former. The process and process controls for actually making the ammo *should* be the same. Maybe that's why Black Hills has a good rep and Ultramax does not.
Grant, I don't see why.
The only difference between reloaded ammo and first run is that the brass has already been used once or more in the former. The process and process controls for actually making the ammo *should* be the same. Maybe that's why Black Hills has a good rep and Ultramax does not.
Thinner brass, mis-formed casings, incorrectly seated primers, etc. There are a whole host of possible reasons for it and to be honest it really doesn't matter if it goes kaboom (as I wear Oakley shooting glasses). ;)
What does get me pissed is when the manufacturer won't cover the damages.
C4
Robb Jensen
07-22-07, 17:07
Maybe that's why Black Hills has a good rep and Ultramax does not.
Not to bad mouth Black Hills as I love their ammo and use it a lot.
I've worked on 3 ARs that had problems of their reloaded (blue box) where the casings got ripped in half and left the forward half in the chamber. This was in a Colt 6920, a RRA Elite A4 (middy), and a LMT 10.5" SBR. It was easy to get the forward half of the casing out of the chamber. In each instance it was WCC or LC brass.
Heavy Metal
07-22-07, 17:27
I've worked on 3 ARs that had problems of their reloaded (blue box) where the casings got ripped in half and left the forward half in the chamber.
Sounds like loads that came from casings from rounds fired thru a SAW with long headspace.
Still, case head sepaerations do not bother me much. KB's bother me.
I am sure Black Hills has blown up a weapon or two but I have not heard of it.
Robb Jensen
07-22-07, 17:31
Sounds like loads that came from casings from rounds fired thru a SAW with long headspace.
That's my conclusion as well.
watchluvr4ever
08-02-07, 00:10
Saw the pics, man that sucks! Sorry to the fella that owns the rifle. :(
The pics show a classic "stuck bolt" KB - as evidenced by the separation of the upper along the forge seam line.
Here is what happens:
For some reason such as overpressure round, partial case separation, etc., the bolt becomes locked in battery as the bullet moves forward.
When the bullet passes the gas port, it sends a high pressure jet of gas to the carrier, beginning the carrier's rearward travel.
The carrier attempts to cam or rotate the frozen bolt.
Since the bolt refuses to rotate, the carrier is forced to rotate.
Only the carrier key is preventing the whole carrier from rotating. The key is forced to the left and bears against the upper receiver and charging handle with so much force that the upper is split from the inside.
The stuck bolt also prevents venting of gas through the vent holes in the left side of the carrier - which is why the bottom of the carrier is pealed back.
A post mortem of this KB or any similar type of KB in the AR will reveal: a bolt in battery and a heavy score mark on the left internal surface of the upper from the carrier key's attempt to rotate.
TY-44934
I think anytime you shoot reloads you’re taking a risk, I buy the Blackhills 77g .5.56 factory seconds when ever I can, and I love their reloads.
I almost lost my 92fs due to a squib from some gun store reloads, and I'm just glad that I decided something was odd and took the gun apart instead of pulling the trigger again.
Alpha Sierra
08-08-07, 18:59
I think anytime you shoot reloads you’re taking a risk, I
I would qualify that to say "every time you shoot SOMEONE ELSE'S reloads, you're taking a risk".
I cannot think of higher quality ammo for my firearms than that hand made by me using carefully selected quality components and checked at every step with no pressures to put anything towards the bottom line.
Pat_Rogers
08-08-07, 19:12
Not to bad mouth Black Hills as I love their ammo and use it a lot.
I've worked on 3 ARs that had problems of their reloaded (blue box) where the casings got ripped in half and left the forward half in the chamber. This was in a Colt 6920, a RRA Elite A4 (middy), and a LMT 10.5" SBR. It was easy to get the forward half of the casing out of the chamber. In each instance it was WCC or LC brass.
Speaking with Shep Kelly, who knows more about this business then anyone i have ever met- he states that this is usually a defect in the brass during the drawing process. This will happen to x amount of cases in any lot.
I have been running BH for a long time (I'm a Master Dealer) and have seen this happen once with them, just recently.
It can be from other causes as well, but Shep worked for Federal when it was a viable company making good ammo. So, i'll take his counsel...:)
I would qualify that to say "every time you shoot SOMEONE ELSE'S reloads, you're taking a risk".
I cannot think of higher quality ammo than that hand made by me using carefully selected quality components and checked at every step with no pressures to put anything towards the bottom line.
Yes, anytime you buy someone elses reloads! :D
Although I'm not setup for it quite yet, after my next 2 AR builds, I'm buying a Dillon press and going from there.
Odd thing about the Beretta, there was burnt powder behind the slug, but it made it only half way down the barrel, and I made the gun shop remove the squib. ;) (They roll their ammo in house)
Funny thing is they had a 1911 barrel in their case saying that it happened with Winchester white box from Wally world, I always figured it was from their ammo, the damage was constant with a squib, and I have never heard of Winchester white box causing problems.
Do most companies label boxes of reloads as reloaded ammo?
Companies that do it for a living do. Zip Loc Baggie of Rounds Guy at the gun show should but don't.
Ned Christiansen
08-09-07, 08:46
The part about reloading this caliber that I always hated the most was case trimming. But from what I read early-on in my reloading days, I was not going to reload them without trimming. This may be less critical in an AR where the action is close by a spring and not by manual force, but the idea is that a case neck that's too long will actually crimp/clamp the bullet in place as the round is chambered, causing high pressure. Now maybe in an AR that translates into a failure to go completely into battery-- but maybe not. I don't know, just throwing it out.
Other than this or a case that's just bad from the get or has been overused, I've always thought this caliber was maybe not the easiest to overload, given that most of the recommended powders pretty much fill the case. "Most" is the key word I suppose-- I certainly have not tried them all.
But back to case trimming, I can see why an individual or company might be tempted to just skip that step. Not saying UM has or is, just throwing it out as I did not see it mentioned.
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