View Full Version : Can't seem to find the gun I'm looking for
I want something for bedside table/SHTF/range use. I've tried a lot of the popular handguns out there, but for one reason or another either I have a problem with the gun, or the public seems to have issues.
Glocks don't fit my hands, but I like the trigger, but I don't seem to be accurate with them due to the fit.
M&P doesn't feel that great either to me and the trigger sucks IMO (even with Apex components) it always feels plasticky or gritty to me even after a lot of rounds.
H&K USP and P30 feels great in my hand, but the USP has some stupid issues (prop. light rail and all plastic mags) and the P30's trigger just isn't for me, or at least the few I've tried. I like the USP vastly better. I've never got to shoot the USP, and I've heard that folks tend to pull to the left with them, which = not good for me because I already have that issue with Glocks.
Sig 226 would be my pick if it weren't for the horrible reputation Sig has these days. With that rep, it doesn't seem that price should be where it's at. I've heard of the CPO's, but they're apparently as rare as hen's teeth these days. I seem to be the most dead-on accurate with the Sig.
So, am I being too picky? I just want a good general use gun that's reliable and accurate (without me effecting it too much, I'm sure Glock's are plenty accurate, but not with me despite extensive training).
Also, is there some other diamond in the rough that I'm missing out there? I'd love a 9mm S&W TSW, but they're hard to find too, and I've honestly never shot one.
Business_Casual
10-17-10, 18:42
Get some tier one training, you clearly have no idea what you are doing. LAV, Tigerswan, etc.
B_C
I recommend Han solo's e33 blaster. Low recoil, solid frame, unlimited ammunition, and good Penetration on stormtrooper armor. Also an excellent firearm for single hand draws.
Dang...I swear the address bar said m4carbine.net. Is there a server mix-up with arfcom?
Have you looked at the FNs? I've never shot one, but a lot of people love them.
With regard to the HK USP, I had a full-sized .45 for several years and IMO it was a fantastic pistol. I shot quite well with mine and I didn't have the problem of pulling to the left you mentioned. The .45 uses metal body mags, but I believe the 9mm and .40 use polymer body mags. Don't Glocks also use polymer mags though?
Also what about a Beretta? Or a Springfield 1911?
ETA: I forgot to mention that you can get a rail adapter for the USP with a standard sized rail. I used one on my USP .45 to mount an X200. Surefire makes the adapter and so does another company that I can't recall at the moment. The Surefire rail is very high quality and adds virtually nothing to the weight or profile of the pistol.
CaracalUSA
10-17-10, 18:59
I'm not joking here. Have you thought about a nice revolver? I would not hesitate to grab my model 19 if I heard a bump in the night. Like was suggested before. Shoot everything you can before you settle. Might I also suggest you find a small tac light to go with it or possibly a mounted light. Good Luck.
varoadking
10-17-10, 19:03
Dang...I swear the address bar said m4carbine.net. Is there a server mix-up with arfcom?
Let me try to help...
As for the P30, the LEM seems to be a good option to to DA/SA that folks seem to dislike. I have one myself and do like it, though I prefer the Glock.
SiG still makes a good piece despite the increased QC issues. The 4 I have are some of the most accurate production pieces I own. They do not come with a great trigger, even the Elite's, and frankly, that's an issue for me. They aren't my first choice anymore, but they are still fine platforms...
If you have not tried Gen4 Glock, you may want to. The modular backstrap system has made them a clear favorite for me. From personal experience, I'd sugggest you give a Gen4 Glock 17 a try.
Can't comment on the M&P...they never appealed to me, and not sure I've even held, much less shot one...
I'm not joking here. Have you thought about a nice revolver? I would not hesitate to grab my model 19 if I heard a bump in the night. Like was suggested before. Shoot everything you can before you settle. Might I also suggest you find a small tac light to go with it or possibly a mounted light. Good Luck.
I've not given it a lot of though honestly. If I could find one of the 8 round models or something I might be interested. Is mounting a rail or light adapter that big of a deal on a revolver?
CaracalUSA
10-17-10, 19:21
It can be done but I would recommend learning to shoot with the pistol in one hand and light in the other. There are several methods available.
Captain_America
10-17-10, 19:31
Sometimes it seems everything is a trade off of something or another. When it comes to choosing something other than a 1911, they all have their good points and bad points. I'm actually in this situation right now. I just sold a Hi Power and am getting another 9 mil. I've been tossing around quite a few of those choices.
H&K USP: I like the USP's (BIL has .45). Again, the proprietary rail is one strike. Not sure how long they'll be making them anymore either. I would just hate to get something new that is in the process of being phased out. I also think they're a little overpriced for what they are. Having said all that, I know they're solid, dependable, top of the line pistols. Haven't shot the P30 yet.
M&P: Just can't seem to like them. Buddy picked up a compact .40. Don't really like the trigger. Probably decent guns, just didn't do anything for me.
SIG 226: Have seriously considered the 226. As with you, reports of QC issues make me think twice. Always have had concerns of aluminum frame life too. I know they will probably give a good service life, but once that anodizing wears through, it's pretty much done. I have seen examples of guns that wore through every early.
Glock: Somehow I always end up back at Glock. I've had 4 different G19's and foolishly sold them off in order to fund other purchases. I am in now way a Glockaholic or anything like that. In fact I pride myself on always trying to be objective. But I find myself seriously looking at the Gen 4 17/19's now. I don't think they're perfect as some would have you believe. But I do think they're simple, rugged, and reliable. Consistent trigger pull. With the new Gen 4's the grip is adjustable (always wished the grip were just a tad smaller). They are also very easy to repair yourself, parts are very cheap and easy to find. I've never played with the triggers, but think I might try one of the lighter trigger set ups.
So after all that, I would suggest the Glock. They're the most reasonably priced of the choices, and the new onces come with three mags. The second suggestion is get some training. I think if you were a little more proficient you might warm up to the Glock a lot more
Look into CZ, a P01 if you want something the size of a Glock 19, a CZ75B or BD if you want a large pistol. They shoot very well and are very reliable but a bit heavier than the others you have mentioned.
mikeross506
10-17-10, 20:06
I'm hesitant to blame your lack of finding the appropriate firearm on the weapons themselves. I'd really recommend following up with some quality training IOT improve on your comfort level. Every pistol you listed has proven itself over and over again in real life scenarios....
That being said, I love my XD and XDm's. The grips are smaller than other double stack pistols and the XDm has interchangeble back straps to give you a truly tight grip. Also, Springfield is one of the best companies to deal with regarding customer service issues. You can pick up a brand new XD for around $425 which is a third of what you'd have to shell out for an FN. (not implying they aren't worth it. simply that some of us have to consider the cash factor.)
I've put my XD's thru hell in training, just as I would carrying them in Ramadi and have never had a malfunction....Good Luck!
To be honest having shot both I feel that the USP is a little outdated if we compare it with an apex m&p. All I have in my m&p is an apex hard sear and it's one of the best triggers I've ever put my finger on, with the exception of a 1911. The changeable backstraps can adjust to any person's hands. It has handles recoil well in .45, which makes me wonder how it would feel in 9mm. Too bad I have a g17. As far as plastic feel, well they are polymer pistols... I'd put my life on any of my 2 pistols.
All USP Compacts use metal magazines.
That and it wouldn't surprise me if you could find an old school Sig for a reasonable price.
John_Wayne777
10-17-10, 21:16
I want something for bedside table/SHTF/range use. I've tried a lot of the popular handguns out there, but for one reason or another either I have a problem with the gun, or the public seems to have issues.
Glocks don't fit my hands, but I like the trigger, but I don't seem to be accurate with them due to the fit.
M&P doesn't feel that great either to me and the trigger sucks IMO (even with Apex components) it always feels plasticky or gritty to me even after a lot of rounds.
H&K USP and P30 feels great in my hand, but the USP has some stupid issues (prop. light rail and all plastic mags) and the P30's trigger just isn't for me, or at least the few I've tried. I like the USP vastly better. I've never got to shoot the USP, and I've heard that folks tend to pull to the left with them, which = not good for me because I already have that issue with Glocks.
Sig 226 would be my pick if it weren't for the horrible reputation Sig has these days. With that rep, it doesn't seem that price should be where it's at. I've heard of the CPO's, but they're apparently as rare as hen's teeth these days. I seem to be the most dead-on accurate with the Sig.
So, am I being too picky? I just want a good general use gun that's reliable and accurate (without me effecting it too much, I'm sure Glock's are plenty accurate, but not with me despite extensive training).
Also, is there some other diamond in the rough that I'm missing out there? I'd love a 9mm S&W TSW, but they're hard to find too, and I've honestly never shot one.
Please take a moment to re-read your list and realize that you've eliminated some of the (objectively speaking) best handguns available on the market. The only thing you didn't flush there was the Beretta 92. That alone might be an indicator that you may want to rethink your approach to the problem.
Rarely does the purchase of a firearm make anyone a better shooter. I would strongly encourage taking whatever you've got now through a couple of courses. Gaining proficiency has the wonderful side effect of making hardware selection a much easier process.
I think CZ's are a good choice, you should look into them, the trigger is not that great (i've only shot SP01), but the B models can be carried cocked & locked. Accurate, great ergos, low recoil and from what i've heard they're pretty reliable after a break in period, here in Mexico they're very common in both, military and police holsters. BTW, in Mexico, both, army and navy, do not have an standard issue sidearm, so officers and special units get to use whatever they like, obviously as a personal purchase, just in case anyone was wondering.
I want something for bedside table/SHTF/range use. I've tried a lot of the popular handguns out there, but for one reason or another either I have a problem with the gun, or the public seems to have issues.
Glocks don't fit my hands, but I like the trigger, but I don't seem to be accurate with them due to the fit.
M&P doesn't feel that great either to me and the trigger sucks IMO (even with Apex components) it always feels plasticky or gritty to me even after a lot of rounds.
H&K USP and P30 feels great in my hand, but the USP has some stupid issues (prop. light rail and all plastic mags) and the P30's trigger just isn't for me, or at least the few I've tried. I like the USP vastly better. I've never got to shoot the USP, and I've heard that folks tend to pull to the left with them, which = not good for me because I already have that issue with Glocks.
Sig 226 would be my pick if it weren't for the horrible reputation Sig has these days. With that rep, it doesn't seem that price should be where it's at. I've heard of the CPO's, but they're apparently as rare as hen's teeth these days. I seem to be the most dead-on accurate with the Sig.
So, am I being too picky? I just want a good general use gun that's reliable and accurate (without me effecting it too much, I'm sure Glock's are plenty accurate, but not with me despite extensive training).
Also, is there some other diamond in the rough that I'm missing out there? I'd love a 9mm S&W TSW, but they're hard to find too, and I've honestly never shot one.
The choice of a pistol can sometimes be difficult due to the variety of choices out there, but as others have already said with proper training just about any quality pistol/ or revolver can be very effective in the right hands.
As for your current dilema. I won't argue against the Sig 226 because I own a few. The Glocks, I have also owned, and still always keep one around, loaded as a back-up gun.
If I were going to look at a standard size pistol for home defense (typically selling for less than a grand), I would opt for a long-proven pistol from a reputable manufacter.
The ones that I would consider are the following;
1. Sig 226, 9mm
2. Glock 17, 9mm
3. Berreta, 92 9mm
4. HK USP, 9mm/ .45 ACP
5. Smith and Wesson 3rd Generation Autos (5906, etc.)
The suggestion for training is a solid suggestion, if it applies, to you. Most people, even individuals with a Law Enforcement or Military background, can still benefit from quality training.
Finally, if you are really interested in the Sig 226. Watch the various auction websites, because it is very possible to find a quality used one made before the current QC problems which Sig Sauer is apparently experiencing.
Do some research and contact Sig once you find a gun. They can provide the year of manufacture with the serial number.
I like mine so much, that I bought three of them. One to carry, one to practice with and one NIB for a back-up.;)
SkiDevil
Magic_Salad0892
10-18-10, 02:29
May I suggest a new list?
Of the pistols I've shot my favorites are -
1 - Glock 17 (4th Gen is a good choice, but 3rd shouldn't be passed up.)
2 - H&K P2000 (Imagine a Glock 19 but better.)
3 - S&W M&P .45 (Best .45 on the market IMO.)
4 - Beretta M92 (Add some CTC grips and you got yourself a winner.)
5 - SIG P228 (I've always hated the P226 because it was like a Beretta that I couldn't shoot with, but the P228 was RIGHT.)
Will_Die_Trying
10-18-10, 04:08
I am currently on the market for a similar type gun.
I am fully trained and more than qualified to handle and shoot the guns you listed.
The issues you listed seem valid to me, and unless you were being misleading in saying "despite extensive training" i don't think its a training issue.
You just need to keep trying guns til you find the ones that right.
Its unfortunate that glocks dont feel right to you as they are a rather good HD/SHTF/Range gun. They tend to be so reliable I would almost call them boring to shoot. But I understand if they are not for you.
It seems you are not settled on any gun you listed and I would just say dont put yourself in a box. Try some rugers like the sr9 and sr9c, try a tuarus, try a cz, try walther, try more guns. If you shoot and hold enough of them you will findally pick up that gun and have an almost "oh-haa" moment and then you know you have a gun that feels right, shooting it feels more natural, and you will then likely shoot it well.
Just my 2 cents
Bobert0989
10-18-10, 05:16
Funny thing, I asked a similar question, except for CCW purposes, and my thread was locked. Apparently you should just search and dig for research instead of asking for help.
On topic, my personal affections still reside with Sig. Only problem I've run into with any of my Sig's was the broken guide-rod in my P6 (which was surplus, German Issued, possibly extremely high round count) and I put over 500 through it personally without even a hiccup. I'm highly considering the P226 for my next carry-gun, as I love my P6, only don't care for the single-stack mags. 8+1 is way low on capacity for a 9mm. I can carry that in my 1911's ;)
Back to the revolver note, I've no issues whatsoever with the Rossi .357 in my dresser drawer currently. It's not my first go-to in case of home invasion, but I like the idea of it for my wife to shoot, as it is small, easy to handle, easy to "point-shoot", and if it for some reason does NOT go off, just squeeze it again. I know Rossi isn't widely appreciated as a "great" gun, but it has yet to let me down. Hey, I guess it's not a Hi-Point... :)
And a +1 to the 5906 Smith. No issues with mine at all, recently sold to fund other hobbies... It was a little heavier than others I own, but was reliable, accurate, and comfortable (for me, at least), and I personally don't like the feel of a Glock either...
Good luck!
~Bobby
Business_Casual
10-18-10, 08:27
Maybe it was locked because you think things such as "I have no issues with a Rossi" and maybe this thread should have been locks as well.
B_C
I want something for bedside table/SHTF/range use. I've tried a lot of the popular handguns out there, but for one reason or another either I have a problem with the gun, or the public seems to have issues.
Glocks don't fit my hands, but I like the trigger, but I don't seem to be accurate with them due to the fit.
M&P doesn't feel that great either to me and the trigger sucks IMO (even with Apex components) it always feels plasticky or gritty to me even after a lot of rounds.
H&K USP and P30 feels great in my hand, but the USP has some stupid issues (prop. light rail and all plastic mags) and the P30's trigger just isn't for me, or at least the few I've tried. I like the USP vastly better. I've never got to shoot the USP, and I've heard that folks tend to pull to the left with them, which = not good for me because I already have that issue with Glocks.
Sig 226 would be my pick if it weren't for the horrible reputation Sig has these days. With that rep, it doesn't seem that price should be where it's at. I've heard of the CPO's, but they're apparently as rare as hen's teeth these days. I seem to be the most dead-on accurate with the Sig.
So, am I being too picky? I just want a good general use gun that's reliable and accurate (without me effecting it too much, I'm sure Glock's are plenty accurate, but not with me despite extensive training).
Also, is there some other diamond in the rough that I'm missing out there? I'd love a 9mm S&W TSW, but they're hard to find too, and I've honestly never shot one.
What is your definition of "tried"? How many rounds on each? What is your level of training and with what type of firearm?
I have never met a firearm that I can't shoot after some familiarity and training or practice, and I think this idea of "fit" when it comes to handguns is complete horseshit (beyond the obvious of things like a grip a woman physically can't hold, or a slide bite like with a PPK).
John_Wayne777
10-18-10, 09:01
Funny thing, I asked a similar question, except for CCW purposes, and my thread was locked. Apparently you should just search and dig for research instead of asking for help.
People should indeed make use of the search function and tacked threads because previous threads often have a wealth of information in them that knowledgeable individuals are not inclined to repeat every time someone asks essentially the same question. A lot of ground has been covered in the handgun forum in the years that I've been participating on this site. It would be wise to go back over some of that before starting a new thread.
This thread is somewhat novel in that it presents us with an individual who claims that none of the good handguns on the market are suitable for his purposes...which means it's not a "what gun should I buy?" thread, it's a "Please help me understand why I am approaching this problem incorrectly." thread.
My reaction is that yeah, you are being too picky. Glock, M&P and H&K all have the most important quality in a handgun, and that is reliability. The grip/trigger/feel on any of those can't possibly be that bad. You can train yourself to shoot well on any of them, but you can't train the gun to be more reliable.
The only gun you're likely to find which has a butter-smooth trigger, points naturally and feels damn good in your hand is a 1911, and as this forum will tell you, they definitely are not for most shooters. You gotta compromise somewhere, and it should never be in reliability.
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