View Full Version : End plate sling mount recommendations?
coyote hunter
10-17-10, 23:55
I'm looking for a good end plate sling mount and sling. I would be installing it myself so I'm looking for a few hints.
First, I would need an endplate mount. What would work best for my needs? I am a right handed person, who plans on using it for regular carry. I don't have a need for anything super tactical. Just one that will hold the gun to me.
I'd also need a good sling. Any recommendations on a good one that won’t break the bank?
Finally, I need a castle nut wrench, would the $8 tapco one from cheaper than dirt fill the need? Or would I have to invest in a better tool. You always need the right tool, so there is no reason to skimp.
In one sense, I am lucky that I’ve got a bushmaster because there is no staking yet. I'll stake it after I get the sling mount on.
After reading on this forum for a week, I've learned a great deal about the AR, and I'm glad I found a community with more knowledge than cocky attitudes.
I look forward to learning more about the rifle and how use it effectively.
Any suggestions on this topic would be appreciated, and try not to rag on me too much for having the bushmaster, I got it for the low low price of free, so you won't hear me complaining.
Thanks, coyote hunter
I recommend the "Ikickhippies SLAP" plate. I am biased because my friend designed it. It is made for one single piece of steel, not cast or welded. He's shown it to Larry Vickers and Larry seemed to be impressed.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XIKHSLAP&search=slap
The Blue Force Gear Victory sling is an excellent design (by Larry Vickers) and won't break your wallet.
Look at the Noveske QD end plate.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=rec-qdep&cat=61&page=1&search=&since=&status=
I run it on all my guns along with a Vicker's Tactical Sling from BFG.
It doesn't stick out any farther than a normal end plate and even with a QD swivel attached it doesn't interfere with a stock no matter how far you collapse it.
I recommend the "Ikickhippies SLAP" plate. I am biased because my friend designed it. It is made for one single piece of steel, not cast or welded. He's shown it to Larry Vickers and Larry seemed to be impressed.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XIKHSLAP&search=slap
The Blue Force Gear Victory sling is an excellent design (by Larry Vickers) and won't break your wallet.
I purchased 3 the other day, 2 for me and 1 for a friend. Fit and finish is great and it is gtg as far as I am concerned.
jklaughrey
10-18-10, 06:22
Before you run out and buy accessories, etc... I would check headspace, gas key/bcg staking, and many other "weak" points of the bushmaster AR.
I like the Daniel Defense receiver endplate mount as well as the Noveske Rifleworks. I prefer the QD sling swivel type (like these two_ to those that work with clips (like the hippies and ASAP).
I like the Daniel Defense receiver endplate mount as well as the Noveske Rifleworks. I prefer the QD sling swivel type (like these two_ to those that work with clips (like the hippies and ASAP).
Agree to both sentences. I use the DD QD sling swivel type as I bought it before the Noveske came out. If I was doing it today I would go with the Noveske.
Finally, I need a castle nut wrench, would the $8 tapco one from cheaper than dirt fill the need? Or would I have to invest in a better tool. You always need the right tool, so there is no reason to skimp.
Could someone chime in on respectable tools for this job? I have read so many horrid reviews of cheap tools breaking while removing castle nuts.
I have a VLTOR endplate that can be used for either left/right use(not both at same time). I like it but I have read it doesn't work with large sling hooks.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=543800&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Gunsmithing%20-%20AR-15%20Furniture%20and%20Accessories-_-PriceCompListing-_-543800
Austin and Rob, do you find that the DD mount interferes with anything? I thought about getting one but the way it sticks out from the receiver seems like it would cause some issues with certain stocks.
Austin and Rob, do you find that the DD mount interferes with anything? I thought about getting one but the way it sticks out from the receiver seems like it would cause some issues with certain stocks.
You are correct. I am running a CTR stock and a VCAS, and the CTR won't lock up when collapsed all the way to the castle nut, but that is a non issue for me as is does lock up in the second position.
My understanding is that stocks will lock up fully collapsed with the Noveske but I have no first hand experience with it, the CTR and VCAS together.
My understanding is that stocks will lock up fully collapsed with the Noveske but I have no first hand experience with it, the CTR and VCAS together.
Yes they will. A CTR will not quite touch the button on the QD when using a Noveske End Plate. You are correct that it probably doesn't matter about not being able to use the last position unless you are running plates.
Neither the Noveske or the DD allow me to close any stock I've used when the QD sling point is attached. If removed, the Noveske will allow the stock to lock in the first position while the DD still will not.
If removed, the Noveske will allow the stock to lock in the first position while the DD still will not.
My CTR will lock up in the first position when the QD swivel is not attached, but will not lock up when the QD swivel sewn into to the VCAS is attached.
I am using:
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=78
Neither the Noveske or the DD allow me to close any stock I've used when the QD sling point is attached. If removed, the Noveske will allow the stock to lock in the first position while the DD still will not.
Interesting. On my guns with Noveske plates, ACS stocks, and VCAS slings, the stocks will collapse all the way. The swivel doesn't seem to stick out any further than the castle nut does; one of the reasons I really like the Noveske plate. Now granted, I rarely collapse the stock all the way...
coyote hunter
10-18-10, 09:14
Before you run out and buy accessories, etc... I would check headspace, gas key/bcg staking, and many other "weak" points of the bushmaster AR.
I have been. My BCG staking doesn’t look like the "bushmaster" example posted on this site, mine appears to be done more like the first few good examples. Maybe they got their act together on staking it.......? However the end plate still has no staking whatsoever.
I'll have to look into head spacing, but I have been hitting up the other weaker points of the rifle.
I like the SLAP plate so far, but most of these links are to something thats sold out :sarcastic:
I have the ASAP plate on the carbine [which is also a BM] and the Noveske QD endplate on the SPR.
Honestly I like them both. The ASAP however, at least to me, only seems to make sence with either the MS2 sling or another single point sling. The Noveske end plate is a lot more versitile.
jasonhgross
10-18-10, 09:22
+1 for the Noveske end plate. SOPMOD closes and locks with this and the sling in place. For single points I like the Boonie Packer single point. Its my choice for use in the house, and with the QD end plate, I can leave it off the rifle for home defense usage, then snap it on if needed (I keep it in my bug out bag with spare mags ect)
I'm looking for a good end plate sling mount and sling. I would be installing it myself so I'm looking for a few hints.
First, I would need an endplate mount. What would work best for my needs? I am a right handed person, who plans on using it for regular carry. I don't have a need for anything super tactical. Just one that will hold the gun to me.
I'd also need a good sling. Any recommendations on a good one that won’t break the bank?
Finally, I need a castle nut wrench, would the $8 tapco one from cheaper than dirt fill the need? Or would I have to invest in a better tool. You always need the right tool, so there is no reason to skimp.
In one sense, I am lucky that I’ve got a bushmaster because there is no staking yet. I'll stake it after I get the sling mount on.
After reading on this forum for a week, I've learned a great deal about the AR, and I'm glad I found a community with more knowledge than cocky attitudes.
I look forward to learning more about the rifle and how use it effectively.
Any suggestions on this topic would be appreciated, and try not to rag on me too much for having the bushmaster, I got it for the low low price of free, so you won't hear me complaining.
Thanks, coyote hunter
If you are looking for something "not tactical" and just for carry, why bother with single point? Especially for hunting, I think a 2point is ideal. Maybe check Vickers opinion on 1point vs 2point slings. Single point slings are great for the POU, but if you aren't transitioning to support side often (such as hunting, climbing, transitioning to sidearm), a 2point really has the upper hand. And you won't have a rifle slapping your ballsack when its not held. Always a perk.
If you went 2point you wouldn't need to worry about the endplate. Just attach the sling to the stock and a forward point.
As far as the tool, I have no experience with the TAPCO, so I can't speak on it, but I think most people break stock wrenches trying to torque off a Colt quality staking job, often without using a cheater bar. For removing a BM castle nut that isn't staked, I'm sure the Tapco is more than adequate for the job. If it is cheap, just torque it til you break it when doing the final tightening before staking. I used the cheap AR Stoner barrel wrench/stock wrench for my build and it got the job done. I just hope I don't have to remove the castle nut again, because I grinded the teeth down to install the DD Omega X rail, so I don't think it will grip the castle nut properly again...
Also, what hasn't been mentioned yet is price:
DD = $50
Noveske = $24
Sorta makes it a no brainer.
Many, many people prefer to attach two-point slings at the castle nut. I run guns both ways but think there are definitely applications where the castle nut makes more sense than the stock.
Here's an example of the same sling attached in two different ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXs_3jGejxs
I know the Noveske plate is very well thought out, as the socket extends into the lower preventing rotation. It also allows full collapse of the stock (CTR's and MOE). I have see the DD one and I like it as well, but would only consider it if the design prevented rotation.
jklaughrey
10-18-10, 10:22
Have you tried direct Coyote.
http://ikickhippies.com/slap/
coyote hunter
10-18-10, 10:35
If you are looking for something "not tactical" and just for carry, why bother with single point? Especially for hunting, I think a 2point is ideal. Maybe check Vickers opinion on 1point vs 2point slings. Single point slings are great for the POU, but if you aren't transitioning to support side often (such as hunting, climbing, transitioning to sidearm), a 2point really has the upper hand. And you won't have a rifle slapping your ballsack when its not held. Always a perk.
If you went 2point you wouldn't need to worry about the endplate. Just attach the sling to the stock and a forward point.
As far as the tool, I have no experience with the TAPCO, so I can't speak on it, but I think most people break stock wrenches trying to torque off a Colt quality staking job, often without using a cheater bar. For removing a BM castle nut that isn't staked, I'm sure the Tapco is more than adequate for the job. If it is cheap, just torque it til you break it when doing the final tightening before staking. I used the cheap AR Stoner barrel wrench/stock wrench for my build and it got the job done. I just hope I don't have to remove the castle nut again, because I grinded the teeth down to install the DD Omega X rail, so I don't think it will grip the castle nut properly again...
I've been using the two point that I have, but it’s causing minor problems.
First off, I have a bipod mounted on the foremost end of my rail, right next to the sling mount. every once in a while the two don't get along.
Second, when using a 2 point sling, the hood of my jacket gets tangled when trying to transition from carry, to ready. It’s even worse if I have a back tag on.
Third, I like the idea of a single clip to remove the gun from the sling. Takes a second or two, instead of fumbling around trying to get the sling away from the heavy jacket.
Fourth and final, Just because the rifle's primary use is hunting, that doesn’t mean I don't want to expand the ways I can use it. Hopefully there never is but, if there is a need this is my go to gun
Just a few reasons on why I think a single point would be better for me.
And about the tool, Personally I'd rather buy one, be done. I guess the idea of "torque till it breaks" is not something I'd be happy spending money on. I know its $8, but $8 is 20 rounds down range! :laugh:
Look at the Noveske QD end plate.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=rec-qdep&cat=61&page=1&search=&since=&status=
I run it on all my guns along with a Vicker's Tactical Sling from BFG.
It doesn't stick out any farther than a normal end plate and even with a QD swivel attached it doesn't interfere with a stock no matter how far you collapse it.
I agree with all of this.
If you're looking for a less expensive sling than the Vicker's, check out the Boonie Packer 2P Combat sling. It's about $15, and then all you need are 2 QD connectors to hook your sling up to the rifle. I recently got one in 1.5" trim and am quite happy with it.
I know the Noveske plate is very well thought out, as the socket extends into the lower preventing rotation. It also allows full collapse of the stock (CTR's and MOE). I have see the DD one and I like it as well, but would only consider it if the design prevented rotation.
I've found that the Noveske being recessed into the lower also helps during installation of the buffer tube assembly in that it takes the guess work out of aligning the buffer tube to the lower. If the end plate won't fit flush to the lower, you need to turn the darn buffer tube! It was one advantage I wasn't expecting, but was certainly happy with the discovery.
Many, many people prefer to attach two-point slings at the castle nut. I run guns both ways but think there are definitely applications where the castle nut makes more sense than the stock.
Here's an example of the same sling attached in two different ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXs_3jGejxs
Agreed, but I was responding to the OP who is looking for something "not super tactical" and based on his name, I'm gonna make a psychic prediction he hunts Yotes.
I keep a sling attachment point on my end plate and one on the front of my rail. Couple this with with the Omega X's built in SAPs and the stock's SAPs, that leaves a lot of options. I've found the problem with attaching to the castle nut is much the same problem as single points - the weapon isn't held properly when slung. This isn't a problem to Operators or people who run tactical classes, but someone who hunts or is on patrol may not want to have to keep the weapon at ready just for the advantage of the offchance of support side fire.
Another overlooked issue with castle nut attachment is it takes out one of the two main advantages of the single point style - injured primary hand support hand only fire. Given the adjustments needed to comfortably raise and fire the weapon when a two point sling attached at the castle nut, it makes support arm only fire from a standard slung position very difficult (but not impossible). In that respect, the single point holds the upper hand and the upper hand in quickly switching to support hand for support side cover fire.
After running a 2point attached at the castle nut several times, I don't see the slight pro of quicker change to support hand fire to outweigh the cons of the system. It tries to be a two point with single point properties but ends up failing to excell at either. That's why you hear so many complaints about the MS2 when its ran as a two point.
Again, I'm not dismissing any of the styles, it just depends on POU. For the OP, I'm getting the feeling a 2point in standard configuration is the best choice. If it were my rifle, I'd run the Vickers and also put the Noveske QD endplate, stake it properly, and have the ability to attach a single point (or even attach at the castle nut on a 2point if thats your cup of tea) if the situation dictated such.
Again, YMMV. Just my observations on slings....
I've been using the two point that I have, but it’s causing minor problems.
First off, I have a bipod mounted on the foremost end of my rail, right next to the sling mount. every once in a while the two don't get along.
Second, when using a 2 point sling, the hood of my jacket gets tangled when trying to transition from carry, to ready. It’s even worse if I have a back tag on.
Third, I like the idea of a single clip to remove the gun from the sling. Takes a second or two, instead of fumbling around trying to get the sling away from the heavy jacket.
Fourth and final, Just because the rifle's primary use is hunting, that doesn’t mean I don't want to expand the ways I can use it. Hopefully there never is but, if there is a need this is my go to gun
Just a few reasons on why I think a single point would be better for me.
And about the tool, Personally I'd rather buy one, be done. I guess the idea of "torque till it breaks" is not something I'd be happy spending money on. I know its $8, but $8 is 20 rounds down range! :laugh:
Seen your post after I put up my last one. If you have tried a 2point and think a single point is better for your POU, then by all means give it a shot. If the primary use is hunting, I'd still hold on to the 2point though. In case you discover single point isn't for you. To get around the bipod, you could try attaching close to the barrel nut if you are running a railed forearm, should you decide to stick with 2point.
For single point attachment, I really think the Noveske is the way to go. As someone pointed out, its very similar to the DD, but about half the price. Between the ability to fully collapse the stock when the QD is removed and no rattle like the ASAP (not a huge issue though), it's the best option IMO.
My point on the stock wrench is if you are simply going to take the castle nut off a BM - which should be very easy - and then put it back on, stake it, and be done forever, then buy the Tapco and if it breaks when you give that final torque then no big deal. If you plan on switching RE's or endplates or doing other builds, then spend more on a quality tool. But no one can answer that question except you.
coyote hunter
10-18-10, 12:24
Seen your post after I put up my last one. If you have tried a 2point and think a single point is better for your POU, then by all means give it a shot. If the primary use is hunting, I'd still hold on to the 2point though. In case you discover single point isn't for you. To get around the bipod, you could try attaching close to the barrel nut if you are running a railed forearm, should you decide to stick with 2point.
For single point attachment, I really think the Noveske is the way to go. As someone pointed out, its very similar to the DD, but about half the price. Between the ability to fully collapse the stock when the QD is removed and no rattle like the ASAP (not a huge issue though), it's the best option IMO.
My point on the stock wrench is if you are simply going to take the castle nut off a BM - which should be very easy - and then put it back on, stake it, and be done forever, then buy the Tapco and if it breaks when you give that final torque then no big deal. If you plan on switching RE's or endplates or doing other builds, then spend more on a quality tool. But no one can answer that question except you.
No problem.
But as much as I like hanging more thinggamagigs on my rifle, I just don't want to buy a sling mount attachment for the rail. $20 I just don't find neccesary to spend.
DaBears_85
10-18-10, 14:34
And about the tool, Personally I'd rather buy one, be done. I guess the idea of "torque till it breaks" is not something I'd be happy spending money on. I know its $8, but $8 is 20 rounds down range! :laugh:
Are you saying that you would rather spend more money on a good wrench, or that you don't want to spend more than $8?
I used the Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=53735/sku/M4_Buttstock_Wrench) wrench to remove the factory staking from my Colt. Unless you're the Incredible Hulk, you're not gonna break it.
coyote hunter
10-18-10, 16:05
Are you saying that you would rather spend more money on a good wrench, or that you don't want to spend more than $8?
I used the Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=53735/sku/M4_Buttstock_Wrench) wrench to remove the factory staking from my Colt. Unless you're the Incredible Hulk, you're not gonna break it.
Woof, thats about what my budget for the whole project was.
But yes i was saying I'd rather spend more on a better wrench, than buy something more "disposeable" but $80 is a little steep for me right now.I thought I'd be able to find a nice one for about $30, but so far no finds
After searching a bit I've found that most people are using a "disposeable" one found this one with RRA's name attached to it. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=41045/pid=16882/sku/M4_Stock_Wrench?review=1 $6 so getting more to the disposeable end.
For this i might just bite the bullet, use a cheapo and hope it doesn't break before the job is done.
So I guess another question is... Does any one know of a decent wrench that's more in my price range?
How about something that doesn't require you to even remove the castle nut? There's the PR4 and Midwest Industries makes something similar. I use the MI one on my rifle and it's got a QD attachment on both sides of the rifle. They cost a little more, but you can swap it out easily with another rifle and don't need to mess with any staking.
How about something that doesn't require you to even remove the castle nut? There's the PR4 and Midwest Industries makes something similar. I use the MI one on my rifle and it's got a QD attachment on both sides of the rifle. They cost a little more, but you can swap it out easily with another rifle and don't need to mess with any staking.
Don't you lose the ability to close the stock fully though? It almost seems a little too jury rigged, but thats just my opinion.
The OP has a newer Bushmaser, so the gas key is staked properly but the castle nut isn't staked at all (I actually don't have a big problem with this since many switch the endplates, but BM should put a disclaimer). So he has to stake it anyways.
Coyote, like I said I used the AR Stoner wrench and it worked great. I only used it once before grinding the stock teeth down to install a DD Omega X rail (it requires teeth just slightly smaller than a standard stock wrench). I just lent out the tool, which has a barrel wrench on the other end, to a friend with no issue.
I got it off Midwayusa.com on a closeout special for like $18. They don't carry it anymore, but the DPMS armorers wrench looks exactly the same. you may find the AR Stoner wrench elsewhere though.
It's true that the stock won't collapse to the shortest possible click. I normally run my rifle at the third notch so it's a non-issue for me. And today I was clearing a house with my rifle and was going up a tight set of stairs. I was able to make it as short as possible still (which is probably half an inch or less) longer than the actual shortest possible length and it was no problem. So while it's true you can't fully collapse it, it's really a non-issue in my book.
It's really great for issued weapons so you aren't making any permanent modifications to them, but I think it's actually a great solution. And while it may sound rigged, it's actually a very clean setup and looks and works great. Don't discount it, plus no tools to buy and no chance of messing anything up.
I didn't mention it in my earlier post but Tango Down makes the PR4, and PR stands for Pat Rogers who came up with it. I've taken a Pat Rogers class and he runs it on his own gun and it doesn't seem to affect him any either.
It's true that the stock won't collapse to the shortest possible click. I normally run my rifle at the third notch so it's a non-issue for me. And today I was clearing a house with my rifle and was going up a tight set of stairs. I was able to make it as short as possible still (which is probably half an inch or less) longer than the actual shortest possible length and it was no problem. So while it's true you can't fully collapse it, it's really a non-issue in my book.
It's really great for issued weapons so you aren't making any permanent modifications to them, but I think it's actually a great solution. And while it may sound rigged, it's actually a very clean setup and looks and works great. Don't discount it, plus no tools to buy and no chance of messing anything up.
I didn't mention it in my earlier post but Tango Down makes the PR4, and PR stands for Pat Rogers who came up with it. I've taken a Pat Rogers class and he runs it on his own gun and it doesn't seem to affect him any either.
Great point on the issued weapon. Completely overlooked that. Interesting fact about the Pat Rogers bit. Learn something everyday. Two in this instance.
Sorry for the double post, but I'm assuming you are in the field. How durable would you say it is? It attaches by set screws? Ever became loose?
Interesting. On my guns with Noveske plates, ACS stocks, and VCAS slings, the stocks will collapse all the way. The swivel doesn't seem to stick out any further than the castle nut does; one of the reasons I really like the Noveske plate. Now granted, I rarely collapse the stock all the way...
are your RE's 5 position or 6?
Sorry for the double post, but I'm assuming you are in the field. How durable would you say it is? It attaches by set screws? Ever became loose?
Mine is the Midwest Industries version and it attaches with a single screw through the same hole the quick connect goes into. It's got blue locktight on the screw. I would say it's durable enough to bet my life on and the screw has never worked loose.
Mine is the Midwest Industries version and it attaches with a single screw through the same hole the quick connect goes into. It's got blue locktight on the screw. I would say it's durable enough to bet my life on and the screw has never worked loose.
Thats pretty durable in my book. Thanks for the quick review and checking me on the duty weapon aspect. I may have to try one eventually.
I know Midwest Industries gets a bad rap on here for their sights and rails, but I run their sights and have used guns with their rails, and it is all top notch IMO. I also run their swivel attachments which are good to go.
I know Midwest Industries gets a bad rap on here for their sights and rails, but I run their sights and have used guns with their rails, and it is all top notch IMO. I also run their swivel attachments which are good to go.
I built an SPR using a MI SS series handguard, and the quality is there--it's just a PITA to install rail sections given that the handguard threads onto the barrel nut. Their customer service is excellent as well.
I can't speak to their receiver end plate, though.
I like the Troy M4 plate.
Magic_Salad0892
10-20-10, 16:57
IMO.
The CQD Ambidextrous Rear Sling Attachment Point would be my choice.
As found on the Navy Mk. 18 variants.
I've been using one, and like it better than the Magpul ASAP + MS2 setup I had.
And it didn't take any mods to get it on my KAC lower. :D
Noveske would also be a worthy recommendation, but I like the CQD plate better.
coyote hunter
10-20-10, 19:09
IMO.
The CQD Ambidextrous Rear Sling Attachment Point would be my choice.
As found on the Navy Mk. 18 variants.
I've been using one, and like it better than the Magpul ASAP + MS2 setup I had.
And it didn't take any mods to get it on my KAC lower. :D
Noveske would also be a worthy recommendation, but I like the CQD plate better.
I was looking at the Magpul MS2. What did you think of yours?
Quiet-Matt
10-20-10, 19:34
I make these using stock endplates, wire loops, and a welder. Total cost, 75 cents.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_5kA3JwNkBxc/TAqj3s_lenI/AAAAAAAAGEw/--j3EBdx9AE/s640/mms_picture.jpg
Quiet-Matt, that looks pretty nice!
coyote hunter
10-21-10, 01:05
If only I had welding skills
chicks only dig dudes with skills
does anyone know of a simmer castle nut that would allow the lockup with the Daniel defence? this will anoy me on my sbr to not use the first position.
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