View Full Version : 300 AAC SBR Lower - KAC, Noveske, or LMT
I'm going to create my first SBR for the 300AAC BLACKOUT, and am struggling with which lower to go with. I figure if I'm going to go to all the trouble and expense of registering it, I want the best. I think I've narrowed it down to LMT, Noveske, or KAC. This is where I'm struggling: All the lower receiver really does is contain the fire controls, grip, and stock. With the advent of CNC machining, the only real difference I see in lowers is the picture on the side. KAC with their trigger and SOPMOD stock is available for $700. LMT with their trigger and SOPMODD stock is available for $525. Noveske I would build myself with Geissele SSA-E, SOPMOD or CTR for $650-ish. Which would you do? It seems like the trigger is the critcal component and main price differential. How do the three stack up? If building the Noveske is the way to go, is one LPK better than another (assuming a non-stock trigger, grip, and trigger guard?)
ETA: I've built several AR's in the past, and have used RRA and Lauer lowers just because they were available and least expensive, but wanted a little something special for this rifle.
CaptainDooley
10-19-10, 08:57
This would probably get better responses in our NFA forum.
I don't know about anything to do with NFA, but if I was looking to spend that kind of money on a lower for a special build, out of what you have listed, I'd go with a KAC ambi lower - just for the fact that it's purpose built to be an ambi lower and seems to be a really well thought out evolution of the AR lower...
The KAC lower would feature ambi-controls from the factory.
All three mentioned are top shelf items. Any of them would work well.
bsmith_shoot
10-19-10, 09:35
For my money, I would go with the LMT. They are not some high-end billet job with all kinds of angles and tacticool non-neccesary stuff. They are hard-use, mil-spec, no bull lowers. I have run 3 differant lowers from LMT over the years, and they will work when you want them too. Thats just my thoughts.
No question in my mind, here is mine.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/AAC/CTML0928-1024-Stick.jpg
1.) KAC IWS complete lower
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2.)LMT sopmod/2stage lower
3.)Noveske
:)
I would go with either 1) Noveske or 2) KAC. Here's why...
Noveske will be offering .300 BLK barrels/uppers and are arguably one of the best manufacturers in regards to uppers. If you're looking to jump into the .300 BLK scene quickly, Noveske will probably be your best bet, both in timeliness and in quality. If you build out one of their lowers and mate it to their uppers, they'll warranty any issues you have with the match-up. I purchased an upper and stripped lower separately that had fit issues. I sent them to Noveske and they sent me back both a new upper and lower, fitted to each other. Plus you have the "all-Noveske" bragging point.
However... the KAC lower, from a functional standpoint, is perhaps the best lower on the market, offering ambi-controls, match-trigger, and all of the typical KAC goodies rolled into a package you can't get anywhere else. If you are simply looking at a list of pros vs cons, the KAC is the way to go.
As far as LPK's, Noveske uses Stag and Colt parts for their lowers. I prefer Colt, Daniel Defense, and KAC parts. DD is usually the best bet if you don't like waiting around forever to find Colt or KAC LPK's, and you don't want to be price-gouged by those that have them.
Just my .02
What upper do you plan to use?
We are going to offer factory SBR to customer's Noveske lowers when they buy an upper (>16" barrel). It will ship directly back to the customer on a F4. It's going to be a pretty cool option and free... Details soon.
We will also be selling factory complete SBR's in 300BLK.
Both options are better than a F1 SBR because they don't have any extra markings, in my opinion.
We are going to offer factory SBR to customer's Noveske lowers when they buy an upper (>16" barrel). It will ship directly back to the customer on a F4. It's going to be a pretty cool option and free... Details soon.
I know you said "details soon" (:D) but could you explain, if even vaguely, the above a bit more? So you mean if anyone buys an upper, you'll offer a free SBR lower? Did you mean > 16"? Or less (<) than 16"?
Sorry, you've piqued my interest now.
Another vote here for the KAC lower. The ambi controls are just amazing. The second choice would be the Noveske with a Norgon ambi release and Magpul BAD and I would do the same with the LMT as the final option.
What upper do you plan to use?
We are going to offer factory SBR to customer's Noveske lowers when they buy an upper (>16" barrel). It will ship directly back to the customer on a F4. It's going to be a pretty cool option and free... Details soon.
We will also be selling factory complete SBR's in 300BLK.
Both options are better than a F1 SBR because they don't have any extra markings, in my opinion.
That is just not fair. :D
If you have a Noveske lower (complete w/stock) and buy an upper with barrel less than 16", you will be able to send in the lower and get a factory SBR back.
We will put the upper and lower together, test fire, register as an SBR, and transfer back to the original owner on a Form 4.
What upper do you plan to use?
We are going to offer factory SBR to customer's Noveske lowers when they buy an upper (>16" barrel). It will ship directly back to the customer on a F4. It's going to be a pretty cool option and free... Details soon.
We will also be selling factory complete SBR's in 300BLK.
Both options are better than a F1 SBR because they don't have any extra markings, in my opinion.
I think I know what I want to do for my next SBR. :D That sounds like an amazing option for me, since the nearest FFL which can deal with SBRs and the like is a 2 hour drive and they were so rude to me the first time I went I walked out of the store with $2000 cash still burning a hole in my pocket. I ended up purchasing an SBR from a place much further away because it was recommended to me, and the person I dealt with was extremely friendly.
If you have a Noveske lower (complete w/stock) and buy an upper with barrel less than 16", you will be able to send in the lower and get a factory SBR back.
We will put the upper and lower together, test fire, register as an SBR, and transfer back to the original owner on a Form 4.
So let me make sure I understand this. I currently have a non NFA Noveske lower and I also have a another lower (different manf,LMT) that is SBR'd. If I buy a complete upper <16 from Noveske I send you my non NFA Noveske lower and you trade it out for a F4 lower and mail it back to me once the form 4 is approved and we skip the dealer all together? Since I already have a SBR'd lower could you send the upper out once it's been test fired on the new SBR lower that you keep until approved?
welchtactical
10-19-10, 13:27
Is the 300BLK ammo and upper coming out soon enough to even start thinking about building anything? I dont get too excited about gun stuff coming out anymore, if always dissapointing waiting forever.
...you trade it out for a F4 lower NO
mail it back to me once the form 4 is approved and we skip the dealer all together YES
You send in your lower and we make your lower into an SBR. Because it's yours we can send it directly back to you on an approved F4. A lower is not an SBR so we could not ship the upper separately.
Is the 300BLK ammo and upper coming out soon enough to even start thinking about building anything?
AAC is already shipping uppers. Ammo is supposed to be available before the end of the year and in quantity 2011, so I'd say not too early to get an SBR going.
You send in your lower and we make your lower into an SBR. Because it's yours we can send it directly back to you on an approved F4. A lower is not an SBR so we could not ship the upper separately.
Is it the customer's responsibilty to file the form 4 with the atf (CLEO Sig, Print Cards, Photos, ETC)? Please elaborate on this process. Also, what about the caliber designation? I guess Noveske will fill out the form 4 (caliber, s/n) send it to customer to attached requisites and check/MO, and customer sends to ATF; then Noveske ships to customer when form 4 is approved?
AAC is already shipping uppers. Ammo is supposed to be available before the end of the year and in quantity 2011, so I'd say not too early to get an SBR going.
YUP:dance3:
You send in your lower and we make your lower into an SBR. Because it's yours we can send it directly back to you on an approved F4. A lower is not an SBR so we could not ship the upper separately.
AAC is already shipping uppers. Ammo is supposed to be available before the end of the year and in quantity 2011, so I'd say not too early to get an SBR going.
I think I am more confused now then before. :sad:
I send you my current noveske lower you fill out a form 4 for it while it's in your possesion then send me the paperwork to do my thing with. Once it's approved I contact you and you send it back to me and now it's a SBR on a form 4? I understand by doing this we don't have to engrave the receiver as it's on a form 4 but what I don't understand is "how" it exactly works. Why does you having posession of it allow me to do a form 4? I am really interested in this and that's why I'm asking.
We manufacture the SBR when we attach the upper with barrel less than 16". As a manufacturer we register it as an SBR on a F2, then it transfers to you on a F4. The F4 is a tax paid transfer, it's never used to make an NFA item.
We will fill out the F4 and send it to you for your pic, local CLEO signature, fingerprint cards, etc. I expect we will want it all back to double check before sending it to the ATF.
The caliber and length will be what upper you buy.
You send in your lower and we make your lower into an SBR. Because it's yours we can send it directly back to you on an approved F4. A lower is not an SBR so we could not ship the upper separately.
AAC is already shipping uppers. Ammo is supposed to be available before the end of the year and in quantity 2011, so I'd say not too early to get an SBR going.
You have got to be kidding me!!
I feel like Christmas has come early.
I have a Noveske lower that is built and I am planning on purchasing a 300 BLK SBR from Noveske and I was in the process of beginning my F1 for this lower because my two other SBR lowers already have uppers on them (I never thought I would get a third SBR) :laugh:
Todd, you have saved me a lot of time and hassel (If I understand the process correctly).
Let us know how testing goes with the different barrel lengths and PLEASE offer the Troy Extreme Battlerail as an option:D and I will be the first in line.
Edit, I just saw the above post. I guess we still have the pay the $200 tax, get CLEO signature and FP done and wait to get the rifle until the F4 gets approved by the ATF. What is the advantage of sending the lower into Noveske as opposed to just completing a F1 on a lower individually, other than not needing to get the lower engraved (or I am I just confused and not understanding the process you discussed-I am a little slow).
Todd, I know you are busy and have other things to do, so don't sweat it if you don't have time to respond.
It's a factory SBR without any engraving, but yes you still have to wait for the ATF stamp. You won't have to pay for engraving or a transfer fee from your local class 3 dealer.
It's a big thank you to Noveske customers that would like a factory SBR but already have one of our lowers.
Question: When will the 300 BLK uppers be available for sale? I was on the Noveske site and it shows "On Hold". I am very interested in the platform and would like more details however, finding details seems to be sketchy. Any info as usual would be greatly appreciated.
Question: When will the 300 BLK uppers be available for sale?
After we have ammo to finalize the proper gas port sizes.
bleaman225
10-21-10, 22:37
It's a factory SBR without any engraving, but yes you still have to wait for the ATF stamp. You won't have to pay for engraving or a transfer fee from your local class 3 dealer.
It's a big thank you to Noveske customers that would like a factory SBR but already have one of our lowers.
I'm sort of confused (or maybe previously misinformed and that's now causing confusion)...
So after you get the approved F2 back for my lower and it's now time for you (in OR) to transfer it to me (in PA), are you doing the F4 transfer directly to me? Or F3 to a dealer in PA who will then F4 to me? I'm confused because I read earlier that you are cutting out the dealer from the process.
I guess the shorter version of my question is "can you F4 across state lines?"
I thought you couldn't:confused:
BTW, I'm not hating. I think this is an ABSOLUTELY awesome and generous thing you guys are doing and just sparked some curiosity.
Where are you guys getting your 300 Blackout uppers from? I have seen a few 16" uppers on the pic thread but I don't know the best place to get one as far as price and availability
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was on Noveske's web site a few days ago. There we lots of 300 uppers. That is the route I'm going! I will be taking advantage of their SBR program too.
Mall_Ninja
08-20-14, 02:50
Necro time!
First, will you guys be offering any nitro carburized barrels in 300?
Will you still do this SBR service if I send a Vltor MUR-1A with my Gen 2 lower? (I buy the barrel assembly and hand guard assembly so you guys still make what you need to make it worth the effort).
Also, do you guys have any issues with the fact that this is a Chainsaw that was KG Gunkoted?
Necro time!
First, will you guys be offering any nitro carburized barrels in 300?
Will you still do this SBR service if I send a Vltor MUR-1A with my Gen 2 lower? (I buy the barrel assembly and hand guard assembly so you guys still make what you need to make it worth the effort).
Also, do you guys have any issues with the fact that this is a Chainsaw that was KG Gunkoted?
Who are you talking to?
I'm assuming you think you're talking to Noveske.
Maybe you should call them.
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