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b_real45
10-19-10, 18:49
In so many ways..

I popped my firearm cherry a few weeks ago when I went to a local range to take a look at some compacts. I've always wanted to shoot a firearm but never got up to do it until recently.

My first time shooting was with a Glock 17 rented from the range. What a crazy feeling - never can you fully comprehend the power of a firearm until you actually shoot it! At that point, I was already hooked. I put about 10rds in that 17 and switched over to the 19 because I'm interested only in compacts. I put another 20rds in the 19 and switched over to an S&W M+P (non-compact - I didn't realize until later). The M+P felt a lot better than the 19 when comparing 9mm rounds.. however this was still my first time so I doubt I have the capability of truly dissecting what I liked or did not like. After a box of the 9mm's I switched to .40 S&W. My weapon of choice was the Glock 23. I started shooting and WOW I love this caliber. I loved it so much that I forgot to split the box of 50 with another gun. All of my shots were slow since I wanted to concentrate on my stance, grip, and front sight. My groups were not bad at all for a newbie I think. At about 7 yds, my groups were no wider than a CD disc. I think I'm in love with shooting for sure! :dance3:

So this week I purchased a box of 500rds Winchester Ranger FMJ's. I'm going to continue renting .40cal guns from the range and test between Glock 23, M+Pc, XDm, and P30s. I want to burn through this 500rd box before I decide on which piece I want. Lurking on this site and a few others has helped me a ton and I'm going to continue learning and practicing.

Regards,

Rob

JHC
10-19-10, 19:25
You know what you need to do right? You've been reading widely. ;)

You need a 9mm (more ammo less $$$) - whatever you prefer, a G19 or M&P FS (its about the size of a 19 right?) and ammo and a good training course to get your fundamentals started right. Enjoy.

I'm as big of a Gen 4 fan as anybody but if you go Glock start Gen 3. Simplify your life. Less variables. M&P fine choice too if you like.

b_real45
10-19-10, 19:33
Thanks for the reply!

Yeah I've been researching a lot on different calibers and their pricing. As from what I can tell now, if I went 9mm, I'd carry 135+gr +P but if I go .40, 180gr Gold Dots will do. I've found range ammo 180gr FMJ for pretty cheap too. Luckygunner.com has some good deals - the 500rd 180gr Winchester Ranger is only $145.

I guess another factor I'm weighing heavily is that I'll want to carry in the future and I'm realizing I'm falling in the "heavier is better" group of thought. As for classes, yes that's something I will definitely do - and that may remove the P30 (or any H&K model) from my choices of firearm. The more I research and the more I think about it, I may just go Glock 23. I appreciate the input on the Gen3 - I do like it and it would be cheaper than the Gen4 - so I can spend that extra savings on a SS guide rod and a 20lb spring.. what do you think?

JHC
10-19-10, 19:48
I should not speak to Glock .40's as I've little time on them except a couple thousand rounds with a G27 long ago. I've heard nothing but pretty good about the Gen 4 in .40 and in that caliber, that is my hands down choice - albeit based on a short 50 round trial.

M&P .40's are also highly regarded if you freakin' must have a .40 and the M&P feels like a tittie in your mitts. (that's the analogy I make to the M&P).

Business_Casual
10-19-10, 20:05
Seek a tactical guru. Guns are just tools.

B_C

RogerinTPA
10-19-10, 21:14
The 40 is my favorite pistol caliber and the M&P40 (full size) with Apex sear is by far the best shooting, accurate, comfortable and recoil managing .40 I've shot and owned. The M&P9c with CT grips is my daily carry weapon and is the cat's ass (also with Apex Sear and Heinie 2 dot night sights). The M&P9 is my training/shoot the piss out of...gun and is great in that capacity. It's a great shooter and 9mm is cheap to train with. M&P45 (F/S) is also a great shooting gun, but with the price of .45 ammo, gets rarely shot. If I had to do it again, I'd get the M&P45 Middy.

b_real45
10-19-10, 21:22
Thanks for the input guys. Yeah I'll be trying out the M+P40c next time I go. Another thing I have to consider in my decision is that I only want one gun. It has to be fun in the range, compact for CC, and pack enough punch for 1 shot stop. I know it's about bullet placement, but when SHTF one's nerves may decrease accuracy.

CyberM4
10-19-10, 21:55
wally world sells the Federal 180 FMJ for $14. Good ammo for the price. I've put close too 2,000 rounds through my USPc SS 40. Also Speer Lawman 180.

skyugo
10-19-10, 22:56
make sure ya factor in 2500 rounds of ammo or so and a class to your budget. This may sway things to 9mm, but in my opinion, if you're going to carry, it's essential.

Beat Trash
10-20-10, 01:02
Thanks for the input guys. Yeah I'll be trying out the M+P40c next time I go. Another thing I have to consider in my decision is that I only want one gun. It has to be fun in the range, compact for CC, and pack enough punch for 1 shot stop. I know it's about bullet placement, but when SHTF one's nerves may decrease accuracy.

Ignore all of the hype about the "one shot stop" BS. Pistol bullets poke holes in things, rifle bullets blow shit up. (I can't take credit for this bit of wisdom)

Go for a 9mm, the ammunition is cheaper. Get some competent training. It is ALL ABOUT SHOT PLACEMENT.

You are the driving force, the gun is merely a tool. You can train more due to cost with a 9mm. There are various 9mm loads that will work effectively if you do your job as it relates to shot placement. (Do a search for Dr. Gary Roberts - check out the terminal effects category on this web site - see what he recommends as far as 9mm carry loads) A .40 caliber is a 10mm round. The extra 1mm isn't that much difference.

Get a good 9mm, either a Glock 19 or an M&P, which ever you prefer as both are good guns. Learn how to shot it effectively. Practice what you have learned on a regular basis. Ignore most of the BS you read on the internet.

Train, practice, repeat as necessary...

Steve S.
10-20-10, 16:52
Thanks for the reply!

Yeah I've been researching a lot on different calibers and their pricing. As from what I can tell now, if I went 9mm, I'd carry 135+gr +P but if I go .40, 180gr Gold Dots will do. I've found range ammo 180gr FMJ for pretty cheap too. Luckygunner.com has some good deals - the 500rd 180gr Winchester Ranger is only $145.

I guess another factor I'm weighing heavily is that I'll want to carry in the future and I'm realizing I'm falling in the "heavier is better" group of thought. As for classes, yes that's something I will definitely do - and that may remove the P30 (or any H&K model) from my choices of firearm. The more I research and the more I think about it, I may just go Glock 23. I appreciate the input on the Gen3 - I do like it and it would be cheaper than the Gen4 - so I can spend that extra savings on a SS guide rod and a 20lb spring.. what do you think?

Get a 9mm. The slight size of the hole advantage the .40 has isn't outweighed by the price and muzzle flip from such a hot round. I say this owning a couple .40s. Skip the 135 grain and go 124 grain Gold Dot +p. This is one of the meanest rounds out there, but there are a few others that perform as well (rangers, etc.). If you MUST go "heavier is better", then go all the way to .45acp. It's not that much more expensive and gets an even bigger hole without being as hot a round as .40.

I would skip the P30, only because this is your first gun and money could be better spent elsewhere. If you are looking for an all around gun, get the G19 or the M&P9. The Smith is slightly larger, but not by much, so its basically preference. Keep in mind Glock modifications are cheaper generally, along with mags, holsters, gear, etc. I would also look into detail and field stripping each. *I choose to carry the M&P9 but I know its flaws and am alright with them*

Speaking of modifications... why would you ever consider it? You just started shooting... why go messing with guide rods and recoil springs? If you plan on carrying the weapon, you will find most owners will tell you to keep the plastic Glock guide rod. Just shoot the gun a whole lot, try and take a good class, or at least buy Magpul Dynamic Handgun DVD. Once you turn the CD size groups into shotglass size groups at 7yard slow fire, then consider what you don't like about the gun and changing it.

It seems like you are between the M&P and Glock, based on what you are looking for. Just remember, you are new to firearms. Though I think the Glock is better suited to your needs, I would strongly consider getting an M&P with a thumb safety. You can always take it off later, but until keeping your finger out of the trigger guard becomes subconcious habit no matter the situation, you will be less of a danger to yourself and others if you decide to jump into carrying before developing the right habits. The thumb safety will help in this regard... especially if you are trying things like Appendix carry.

I'm not trying to be mean or say you don't know how to handle guns, but gun safety really needs to be on the same level as breathing ... you just do it without thinking about it. I've seen too many new shooters (and even new CCW permit holders :( ) putting their trigger fingers in bad areas, rechambering rounds too many times, improperly storing, or even strange things like carrying without a round in the chamber. Just remember experience with guns comes with repitition, just like anything else. We all started there. No need to rush into anything. Have fun on your new hobby and take your time picking out what you really want in a gun so you don't regret it later. Welcome to the forum :D

b_real45
10-20-10, 17:44
Thanks for that excellent post. No worries, I'm not taking anything anyone says personally. We're all here to either give advice or take advice. I'm in the "taking" mode. :laugh:

I did do a bit more research on ammo costs and it looks like I can get 1000rds Speer Lawman 115gr FMJ for about $222.. that's pretty nice. I will heavily consider going to a 9mm piece just for that alone. And yes, I have considered sticking with a cheaper firearm so I can take more classes. My only concern now is I already bought 500rds of .40S&W that I'll have to burn through before I start shooting 9mm. I guess I can practice on a G23 and when I go to a G19 it should be a bit easier since the recoil will be less?

Steve S.
10-20-10, 20:35
Thanks for that excellent post. No worries, I'm not taking anything anyone says personally. We're all here to either give advice or take advice. I'm in the "taking" mode. :laugh:

I did do a bit more research on ammo costs and it looks like I can get 1000rds Speer Lawman 115gr FMJ for about $222.. that's pretty nice. I will heavily consider going to a 9mm piece just for that alone. And yes, I have considered sticking with a cheaper firearm so I can take more classes. My only concern now is I already bought 500rds of .40S&W that I'll have to burn through before I start shooting 9mm. I guess I can practice on a G23 and when I go to a G19 it should be a bit easier since the recoil will be less?

Don't worry about the .40, it will go to use over time. I've never had to worry about using up ammo for calibers I don't own. There's always someone at the range willing to let you run their guns, and if you have ammo you can get some serious time on it. Just keep 100 rounds or so in the range bag just in case.

You won't find a lot of people recommending this company, mostly because they jacked up prices during the election scare, but this is the best price for 9mm I've found. I've also ran a case and actually didn't have a single bad round. I was impressed. As long as you don't mind shooting reloads...

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM4212-1.html

warrior-twothree
10-20-10, 21:35
IMHO, I'd go with a 9mm, my first experience with a handgun was actually a Glock 22, and it caused me nothing but frustration in learning. I can only imagine it would be harder to learn on the smaller framed 23. A 9mm "should" be easier for you to train with, and hopefully making you able to score better hits. The cost of the ammo is also a plus. I just generally find the .40 to be overrated, but, again, this is just one man's opinion.

b_real45
10-22-10, 23:26
Well I feel like a putz.. I took a couple of boxes of my new Ranger FMJ to the range and found out that I can only shoot my own ammo if I bring my own piece. If I rent a gun from the range I have to use their ammo! $$. I even offered to have them inspect my ammo so they can be sure its higher quality compared to the crap they sell for the range but no!

I would like to burn through this box of 500 before buying a firearm.. So I have to either find another range that will let me use my ammo or just "bite the bullet" and get a piece now. Have you guys heard of this rule in your range?

Beat Trash
10-23-10, 15:28
I would like to burn through this box of 500 before buying a firearm.. So I have to either find another range that will let me use my ammo or just "bite the bullet" and get a piece now. Have you guys heard of this rule in your range?

Yes. Some ranges do this to ensure no one uses questionable reloads. Some ranges do this so they can sell you ammunition at a slightly inflated price.

You might see if you know anyone who has a 40 cal pistol that you can invite to go shooting with.

Personally I wouldn't buy a gun just because I have 500 rds to dispose of. You could always sell or trade the ammunition in the equipment exchange board.

Steve S.
10-24-10, 18:13
Well I feel like a putz.. I took a couple of boxes of my new Ranger FMJ to the range and found out that I can only shoot my own ammo if I bring my own piece. If I rent a gun from the range I have to use their ammo! $$. I even offered to have them inspect my ammo so they can be sure its higher quality compared to the crap they sell for the range but no!

I would like to burn through this box of 500 before buying a firearm.. So I have to either find another range that will let me use my ammo or just "bite the bullet" and get a piece now. Have you guys heard of this rule in your range?

500 rounds of .40 is small beans. Consider if you plan on shooting a lot how much you would save by going with a 9mm. I agree with the person above me, just sell the ammo on EE or hold onto it. Pretty much any handgun only requires that you swap barrels to convert it from 9mm to .40 so you could always go that route down the road. Many guns will take the same magazines between these 2 rounds, though I've heard reliability is sometimes compromised.

The advantages of a 9mm, especially as a first gun, are pretty big. My first pistol was a .40 and I regret it to this day.

osiris32
10-24-10, 20:33
If you are going Glock you could get a Glock 23 and then get a Lone Wolf conversion barrel ... about $100. I've got a Glock 32 (.357 sig) with a 9mm barrel and I love it, never had an ounce of trouble with it.

WBAR
12-23-10, 08:03
I must say that I have become a big fan of the .40 S&W over the last few years. However, it can be snappy and hard to master in some pistols, particularly the Glock 23. With my Sig 229, though, the recoil is much more manageable and the accuracy is great. While the Glock is a fine weapon for its simplicity, ruggedness, and cheap replacement parts, the Sig would be my go-to.40 cal pistol when the chips are down. The G19 would be a great choice for a 9mm. :) WB