View Full Version : Top-Off Rounds and CCW
AZ-Renegade
10-20-10, 15:22
My agency instructs that when you prep for duty carry you top off the magazine in the weapon after chambering a round.
For me, this has always translated over to when I carry concealed off-duty.
How many of ya'll top off your magazine after chambering a round when carrying concealed?
Is there any reason not to?
I voted yes, but in reality it depends. On the rare occassion when I carry my Glock 20 I don't top off the mag because the mag springs are so strong. When carrying my Glock 19 or Kahrs I always top off.
I always top off and teach my dept to do so as well, when it turns into a two way range, you might be glad you did.
willowofwisp
10-20-10, 15:36
I always top off the carry mag but my spare g19 magazines only hold 14 rounds, as I find its easier to do a tactical reload with only 13-14 rounds in the magazine versus 15.
I always top off the carry mag but my spare g19 magazines only hold 14 rounds, as I find its easier to do a tactical reload with only 13-14 rounds in the magazine versus 15.
Not sure I understand how one less round would make a tac reload eaiser. Please explain.
William B.
10-20-10, 15:52
Not sure I understand how one less round would make a tac reload eaiser. Please explain.
Sometimes it is more difficult to load a full magazine against a closed slide or bolt due to the fully compressed mag spring.
I don't top off mags. I just use a single round in a magazine to chamber a round.
Who said there was no good use for a 10 round magazine.
gtmtnbiker98
10-20-10, 16:09
Why wouldn't you top off?
absolutely yes to topping off!
Yes with my std carry gun which is a HK P30, but I don't do it with my Glock 21 also because tht last round is a tight fit since I don,t ccw my Glock 21 then that means yes.
Is there any reason not to?
The only one I can think of is that if you need to unload and clear your weapon, the loose round is...loose. As Murphy law goes, it rolls behind the deck, under the bed, under car seat...
I top off my single stacks, but do not do it with Glock. I treat G-19 mags as 14 rounders.
sandsunsurf
10-20-10, 16:42
I don't top off, and I carry each spare mag with one less than full capacity on my Glocks. I don't top off, but carry full capacity reloads with the 1911s. The reason is what somebody mentioned earlier- a reload or mag check with the slide forward on a Glock and a full mag causes the mag to be a tight fit because of trying to press the top round down a little as it is inserted, leading to a higher probability of an unseated magazine. The same theory applies to the 1911, but I figure that with only 8 rounds in each reload, I'll take the gamble that a reload will be done with authority and probably with the slide locked back, so it should not lead to an unseated magazine, but a mag check/chamber check is usually done in a more "administrative" mode and I want to make sure the primary mag is seated.
D. Christopher
10-20-10, 17:09
I always top off, always carry fully loaded spare mags, and always train to load full mags with a closed action. Never had a problem with my G19's while using OEM G19 or G17 mags.
Top off. Has become second nature for what 40 years.
Six Feet Under
10-20-10, 18:53
I plan on it. CWP should be here in a few days. My mag springs are pretty stiff, but are starting to get worn in.
I always do. Well, I always carry a full mag plus one in the pipe. I do not insert a mag, chamber a round, drop the mag and put one more round in. I just start with no mag in the gun with the slide locked back. I put the round in the barrel by hand, release the slide, and insert my full mag. Is this an OK way to do it?
I used to top off my single stacks when I was a 1911 tard. I don't do it on high caps. I down load my spare mags just like an AR.
I load a loose round in the chamber and then load a fully loaded mag. I'm carrying an M&P 9c in case it matters.
I always top off the mag after chambering a round and putting the weapon on safe. When I carried a Glock I was just very careful when manipulating it :D
Quiet-Matt
10-20-10, 20:13
The only one I can think of is that if you need to unload and clear your weapon, the loose round is...loose. As Murphy law goes, it rolls behind the deck, under the bed, under car seat...
I top off my single stacks, but do not do it with Glock. I treat G-19 mags as 14 rounders.
I agree with YVK and markm on this topic.
Magic_Salad0892
10-20-10, 20:57
More bullets are always better. So yes, I top off my magazines.
Actually I usually put a found in the chamber with the slide back, and send the slide home, before I put the magazine in.
I've never had a magazine not seated so I must be doing something right.
1_click_off
10-20-10, 21:18
I always do. Well, I always carry a full mag plus one in the pipe. I do not insert a mag, chamber a round, drop the mag and put one more round in. I just start with no mag in the gun with the slide locked back. I put the round in the barrel by hand, release the slide, and insert my full mag. Is this an OK way to do it?
This is what I do to. I do remember one of my manuals stating not to do this as it can damage the extractor. Not sure which manual it was. I will give a look at the last few I purchased (guns, not manuals) and get back....
I remember hearing that people should stay away from doing that because of the chance of slam fire. When in reality it wasn't good to do because it can cause wear on the extractor claw since the rim of the round was designed to slide underneath/behind the extractor and not having the extractor go over the round/rim to grab it.
To the OP I absolutely top off, never know when that extra round might make a difference when it counts.
1_click_off
10-20-10, 21:50
This is what I do to. I do remember one of my manuals stating not to do this as it can damage the extractor. Not sure which manual it was. I will give a look at the last few I purchased (guns, not manuals) and get back....
Page 16 of the manual for my Kahr PM45
"NOTE: Do not load an individual round into the chamber and then close the slide. This can damage the extractor. Only chamber rounds from the magazine as described above"
However, my LCP manual describes how to load one round and closing the slide. So I guess it might be different for different pistols.
D. Christopher
10-20-10, 21:58
As has been said, only load a pistol from a magazine and never drop one in the chamber and then close the slide. It will always lead to premature wear and chipping of the extractor and worst case you'll find out you're carrying a single shot pistol when you really need it.
Actually I usually put a found in the chamber with the slide back, and send the slide home, before I put the magazine in.
I used to do this too.... until I found out that it was hard on my extractor. Most handguns have the rim slip under the extractor... not snap over it.
And I was given examples of Glock extractors breaking prematurely from people doing this.
More bullets are always better. So yes, I top off my magazines.
Actually I usually put a found in the chamber with the slide back, and send the slide home, before I put the magazine in.
I've never had a magazine not seated so I must be doing something right.
I used to do this too.... until I found out that it was hard on my extractor. Most handguns have the rim slip under the extractor... not snap over it.
And I was given examples of Glock extractors breaking prematurely from people doing this.
me three... so now i just ride the slide home, gently chambering a round, and top off.
me three... so now i just ride the slide home, gently chambering a round, and top off.
Count me in on this, too. Hand chamber a round, ride the slide home gently, insert full magazine.
Magic_Salad0892
10-21-10, 04:31
Oh, looks like I have a new protocol happening now.
Thanks for the warning guys.
Will check my extractor for signs of wear, possible replacement inbound.
Beat Trash
10-21-10, 06:13
Count me in on this, too. Hand chamber a round, ride the slide home gently, insert full magazine.
I've broken extractors this way, before I stopped doing that. FYI...
Beat Trash
10-21-10, 06:18
My agency teaches to top off. Even have a name for that round, it's referred to as your "Barney Bullet" in honor of Barney Fife.
The logic is for accountability. If all guns and magazines are loaded to their maximum capacity, then after a shooting, all the CSI types have to do is to count remaining rounds in the magazines, plus the one in the chamber. This could become an issue if more than one person firing, and a stray round hits something unintended.
I do it out of habit. I carry a Glock 19 off duty, and have never had an issue loading 15 rounds in the magazine, or with inserting a fully loaded magazine with the slide forward.
Yes, especially now that the gun that I carry most often only has a 7 round magazine.
I'd recommend that all of you guys who are loading your +1 manually into the chamber invest in a cheapo 10 round mag for your pistol and load the chambered round via magazine.
I've broken extractors this way, before I stopped doing that. FYI...
By letting the slide slam home, or by gently letting the slide go and easing the extractor over the rim? Or both? I've been doing it this way (gently, not slamming home) since my 1st pistol (a S & W 439 back in 1984). Never a problem for me but I am a sample size of just 1.
Quote:
I top off my single stacks, but do not do it with Glock. I treat G-19 mags as 14 rounders.
I agree with YVK and markm on this topic.
Third. With external extractors I drop one in the chamber first. With internal I chamber from magazine, then top off.
It's always topped off but my carry gun is only empty when I am at the range or cleaning it. Not like it's a huge deal. If I were loading and unloading every day, I'd maybe consider not doing it just to keep my hands off the gun more.
When I carried a 1911 I did top off, but now that I carry a high cap I usually don’t. I drive through states where I can’t carry so unloading is often necessary. The handgun goes in a locked case with no magazines near it and the magazines get stuffed in my luggage so I comply with the federal Interstate transportation of firearms law. I don’t like having loose single rounds lying around and haven’t been convinced that one extra round in a high cap handgun is going to make that much of a difference. I just don’t worry about it.
Submariner
10-21-10, 09:27
LAV says this on his Magazine Tactical Tips: (http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/magazines/)
2.) On tough to seat mags, download at least 1 round. If a fully loaded mag is difficult to seat with the slide or bolt assembly in battery then download the mag by at least 1 round as a matter of habit. USGI aluminum M16 magazines are a good example of this as they are really only properly designed to take 28 rounds, not 30 as advertised. Glock pistol mags as a general rule should always be downloaded 1 round as a fully loaded mag is difficult to seat with the slide forward.
After experiencing this phenomenon and receiving a Moosecock for my efforts, I now download my Glock magazines by one.
I guess I will change my ways of loading a loose round into the chamber. Looks like I need to get an Apex extractor too...now that I may have caused damage to my gun.
AZ-Renegade
10-21-10, 10:10
That info from Mr. Vickers is very interesting, I recall that it does require more force to insert a fully loaded mag into my G17 with the slide forward than most of my other pistols.
What got me thinking about this was the other day when I decided to wear my G17 for the weekend. Since 2 seventeen round mags amount to only three rounds less than my standard duty carry I started thinking about the feasibility of having that extra round. And it is nice to be able to stow the chambered round back in the magazine if you have to unload for some reason.
But then: "You can never have too much ammo unless you are drowning or on fire."
1776 Patriot
10-21-10, 10:20
I thought everyone did? All jokes aside, that 1 round could make a huge difference in a life or death sitituation IMO.
Six Feet Under
10-21-10, 10:24
Maybe it's just me, but I always slam the magazine in the gun. No gently inserting it, and if I do, I make sure I hear the click. Never had an issue with a fully loaded mag.
Sometimes it is more difficult to load a full magazine against a closed slide or bolt due to the fully compressed mag spring.
yeah i've noticed this too. when i carry a spare g19 mag i load it with 14. with a fully loaded G19 that's 30 rounds. i'm comfortable with that.
with my p7 i load the spare fully. p7+a spare is only 17 rounds.
gtmtnbiker98
10-21-10, 12:25
I just start with no mag in the gun with the slide locked back. I put the round in the barrel by hand, release the slide, and insert my full mag. Is this an OK way to do it?Only if you like replacing extractors.:sarcastic:
I thought everyone did? All jokes aside, that 1 round could make a huge difference in a life or death sitituation IMO.
Can anyone provide a link to a situation where a civilian CCW lost a gunfight because they were one bullet short? Or of the same thing happening to a police officer?
On the other hand, I have personally seen numerous times in training and competition where full magazines were incorrectly seated and caused malfunctions.
If you have a small capacity pistol (7 rounds or less), it would be a good idea to keep it topped up as long as it functions perfectly that way.
When I took a class at CSAT, I was surprised to hear Paul Howe say that he only carries 2 spare rifle mags on his rig with more in the bag on his back. He explained that with 30 rounds per mag (Pmags) and figuring 3 rounds per target he could deal with 30 targets before going to his bag for more ammo.
Paul's rationale was not to load yourself down with the max ammo you can carry for massive firepower but to make surgical hits with a reasonable amount of ammo for the type of threats you would encounter.
As someone who carries 14 rounds in my G-19, plus another 28 rounds on my belt, I'm guessing that I will be able to handle most civilian encounters short of a Mumbai or Beslan, even with mags downloaded by one round.
Even when I carry my 1911, I'm perfectly happy with 8 in the gun and 14 on my belt.
IMHO, that extra Barney Bullet is the least important thing to worry about in a fight.
Gringop
CoolBarrelBill
10-21-10, 22:07
I do no reason not to.
I always top-off the magazine loaded in my pistol, and I down-load my reload mags by 1 round each.
RogerinTPA
10-21-10, 22:20
For me it depends if I decide to carry one mag or two. For those rare occasions, I top off. Most of the time, I don't since I carry a 17 round mag as a spare for my M&P9c.
Yup...I always top off.....habit.
My Department requires that we under load our 3 Glock G22 mags by one round each but has no written policy concerning our off duty pistols concerning ammunition capacity other than we use issue ammunition (which they give us) Some of our less inclined shooters have problems stuffing 15 rounds in a mag even with the glock loader. My BUG has a full mag and "one up the spout" while my duty gun could actually take two more rounds and all my spare mags on my duty belt could take one. The 2 spare mags in my duty bag are each loaded to max as is the one I wear while I'm in Uniform in the holder with a pairof cuffs. I fly a desk in uniform and have no dealing with the public 'face to face' unless I'm getting a cuppa' Joe
Top off.
Be careful when riding the slide home while chambering a round. The slide needs as much momentum as possible to properly strip a round from the magazine and feed it into the chamber. The momentum is necessary to allow the extractor claw to properly engage the rim of the casing.
The man who tried to kill my partner several years ago apparently rode the bolt forward when chambering the round into his M1 carbine, as the bolt was found forward on a loaded round in the chamber, but the extractor had not been able to engage the rim of the cartridge casing.
When he tried to pull the trigger during their fight, the officers heard a loud click but the gun did not discharge because the firing pin was not able to strike the primer (too much room between the bolt's breech face and the primer).
Be safe.
RiflemanBobcat
10-22-10, 21:05
Only if you like replacing extractors.:sarcastic:
And, depending on the make/model, extractor springs as well.
I always top off my off-duty Kahr PM9, especially since it only has a six round capacity standard magazine. Every round is crucial.
All this makes me wonder how folks were able to defend themselves when revolvers held only six rounds and autos no more than ten.
Dave
Boonie Packer
All this makes me wonder how folks were able to defend themselves when revolvers held only six rounds and autos no more than ten.
Dave
Boonie Packer
back when good guys only had revolvers, badguys only had revolvers.
also, a lot of good guys got wasted... today, a lot more emphasis is put on not getting wasted.
jklaughrey
11-12-10, 22:59
Off duty yes, and my BUG on duty most definitely, but our SO has us download by 1. Basically full mag, and rack. We carry 22, Sgt/Det 23's. Why the differentiation I have no idea, surplus maybe.
I have in fact gone months with a 1911 without topping it off, mostly out of laziness (and only saving 16rds of my carry load for flying).
back when good guys only had revolvers, badguys only had revolvers.
also, a lot of good guys got wasted... today, a lot more emphasis is put on not getting wasted.
:laugh:
For EDC, I always top-off for any pistol type. But that goes with a good load procedure. i.E., chamber check, tug on the mag, etc. For 1911 mags on the belt, carry them full. For high-caps on the belt, down-load by one. FWIW
lloydkristmas
11-13-10, 18:33
I do with my Ruger LCP, but not with my USP .45
HK mag springs are a little weak, and I'm fine with 12 rounds vs 13 rounds.
Alaskapopo
11-14-10, 03:58
My agency instructs that when you prep for duty carry you top off the magazine in the weapon after chambering a round.
For me, this has always translated over to when I carry concealed off-duty.
How many of ya'll top off your magazine after chambering a round when carrying concealed?
The only mags I down load are Glock mags and AR mags. 1 round down for the Glock mags due to having issues in the past with mag springs getting weak when kept full. And With AR mags I load to 28 because it makes seating them on closed bolt reloads easier under stress.
Pat
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