View Full Version : Gen 4 Glock 17 problems *UPDATE*
I have a gen 4 G17, i bought it in April of this year(of course.) I have had alot of issues with mine. Mainly stovepipes and failures to go in to battery and it had one of each of these in the first 100 rounds. I done a simple trigger job on it, polished up the parts and replaced the trigger spring, striker spring and safety block plunger spring, and a ghost connector. All the work was done by a glock armorer. I got the gun back and still about every 100 rounds i got a one stovepipe and one failure to go into battery. This contined the first 500 rounds and then i had about 300 failure free rounds. Then it just started happening again same as before, about one of each every 100 rounds. So i had about 1200 rounds through it and i bought a Jager single recoil spring for it, and still im getting the same stovepipe issue but the failure to go into battery seems to have gone away. Now im at 1800 rounds and today the round barely made it out of the chamber(see pic below.) Now almost every round out of it has been walmart Federal 9mm($9.47 a box stuff, well now $10.47 a box), so maybe its a weak ammo problem? Maybe im limp wristing it? I dont think these are the problems guys, I also have a gen3 G19 and G26 which also have many rounds throught them and i have never had a failure of any kind in either weapon. The G19 has only seen cheap federal ammo and the G26 has had alot of good ammo through it but its my carry gun. And the G19 almost has as many rounds as my G17. So what do yall fellas think? Should i call Glock? Is glock just gonna tell me to shoot better ammo? Thanks
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae125/BLT556/2010-10-20_152120.jpg
Does it happen with any of your magazines or do you number them and it happens with the same one everytime? Something to consider though it may not be a mag issue. If it is a mag issue, send just that back and from what I've read about Glock CS, they'll probably just send you a new one or a tested re-built one.
ya know...im a retard. My mags are numbered but i seem to always forget to look and see if in fact it is the same mag. I will look over the next few weeks. And i also need to add too, that when i fire the G17, half the brass ejects properly and half hits me in the head. Never had this problem with my G19 or G26 either. :confused:
Nevermind missed the part about you replacing the recoil spring.
ya know...im a retard. My mags are numbered but i seem to always forget to look and see if in fact it is the same mag. I will look over the next few weeks. And i also need to add too, that when i fire the G17, half the brass ejects properly and half hits me in the head. Never had this problem with my G19 or G26 either. :confused:
We all forget the simple stuff sometimes. Not sure about the brass to the head problem, extractor tension, (maybe, if it's adjustable on a Glock) or a ding or burr on it? Keep us updated
Do you have the newer "02" marked recoil spring?
What about your slide, does it have a countersink/bevel where the recoil spring assembly fits into the front?
I tried to remember to put everything in the first post i forgot about this. Mine came with the unmarked recoil spring that the first gen4s came with, and i just checked and it has no countersink or bevel in the front recoil spring hole. I also went ahead and looked and the gun was test fired on 2/17/2010...so if that helps.
We all forget the simple stuff sometimes. Not sure about the brass to the head problem, extractor tension, (maybe, if it's adjustable on a Glock) or a ding or burr on it? Keep us updated
i dont really know if you can adjust the tension on a glock extractor. Maybe a softer spring? But i will keep everyone informed, i will probably call Glock sometime next week.
Wayne Dobbs
10-21-10, 10:12
That is the dreaded NYPD malfunction and it's a bear to get fixed. Keep photos and send that gun back to Glock. No amount of parts replacing will fix it in my experience and I've been a Glock armorer, advanced armorer and have LOTS of rounds downrange through the guns. It's not recoil spring related.
It will happen just often enough to keep you from ever trusting the gun...
This may be apples and oranges but I had the same problem several times with my M&P40. I had Smith put a new extractor but that did not work. What I found was that when I stiffened up my grip the problem went away. Up to that time, I never had a malfunction like that. I think some pistols are just very sensitive where the one made right before or after in the same production lot will never have that problem.
I tried to remember to put everything in the first post i forgot about this. Mine came with the unmarked recoil spring that the first gen4s came with, and i just checked and it has no countersink or bevel in the front recoil spring hole. I also went ahead and looked and the gun was test fired on 2/17/2010...so if that helps.
I would call Glock and ask for the 02 marked spring, this seems to be the fix for the issues you are having with you're 17. Whats funny is they still shipped the 19's out with same recoil spring as the 23's. Though I see on other forums that there will be a revised spring for the 19's sometime in Nov. Good luck!!!!!
My department recently purchased Gen 4 Glock 17's and 19's. While I test fired them and had no problems, I had two males and one female experience multiple malfunctions - failures to return to battery - to the extent of once every three or four rounds.
I think Glock made a mistake with the dual recoil spring system in the 9mm's. I'm going to have to investigate this further.
threefeathers
10-23-10, 21:22
I loaned my new Gen 4 G17 to an M p at my last Ft. Huachuca class and in three days he put in excess of 900 rounds of military issue 9mm through it with no cleaning and not a hint of a malf. I'd send yours back to Gaston and get it cleared up.
I will buy as many Gen 4's as I can afford.
Heavy Metal
10-23-10, 21:27
I loaned my new Gen 4 G17 to an M p at my last Ft. Huachuca class and in three days he put in excess of 900 rounds of military issue 9mm through it with no cleaning and not a hint of a malf. I'd send yours back to Gaston and get it cleared up.
I will buy as many Gen 4's as I can afford.
Remember, military NATO spec 9mm ammo would fall between +P and +P+ on the scale. This stuff ain't limp-wristed Winny white box value pack ammo.
threefeathers
10-23-10, 23:00
Yes and I mean in excess of 900 rounds. My course takes 900 rounds and one of the company commanders said to me when the class was over,"Hey Sarge, we have 5 boxes left and I can't turn live ammo in." I went over and used it up. :big_boss:
Could you please look at the metal base of your recoil spring guide and post whether it has anything stamped on it? The G17's have nothing stamped on theirs while the G19's have "0 3" stamped on theirs.
Thanks
The original unit in G17's and 22's was unmarked as you describe. Both of the early Gen 4 G17s here have unmarked spring units. I have heard, but not seen, that newer G22 springs may have 01 on them.
I have an 02 marked spring unit which is the lighter unit which some find necessary to cycle lighter ammo more reliably. [Our original springs have run over 10K rds of the lightest 9mm ammo I can buy from Win, Rem, Federal and Speer, apparently YMMV].
The 03 is the G19 and G23 spring. Word on the net is that there is a 04 spring on the way for those G19 users who request a lighter spring.
Mine has the unstamped spring but it has been wearing a Jager 13# single recoil spring for awhile now and it still has problems:confused:
SWATcop556
10-25-10, 06:21
In my experience as a dept armorer Glocks run the best when they are left in their stock configuration. When one starts adding after market gadgets is when many people screw up a good gun. That being said their have been many issues with the Gen4 9mm guns and their "upgrades" from the Gen3. For me the ONLY benefit to having a Gen4 would be the smaller grip.
They only true tested bomb proof Glocks out there are the Gen3 9mm guns. To me everything else is suspect. Several members here have had zero issues with the Gen4 guns while other will not run without some sort of issue. The Gen4 will need to evlove a little more before one ends up in my safe.
I would contact Glock and see what they have to say. Fisrt thing they will tell you is to replace all of the after market parts with the stock configuration. I would also try NATO spec ammo as the Gen4's are more ammo sensetive than their Gen3 counterparts.
Magic_Salad0892
10-25-10, 12:47
TBH, every good combat weapon design has teething problems.
I'm going to wait a few years before I relegate to all Gen4s.*
However, the Glockmeister spring seems to be a real fix for the recoil assembly issues people are having.
*Again.
In my experience as a dept armorer Glocks run the best when they are left in their stock configuration. When one starts adding after market gadgets is when many people screw up a good gun. That being said their have been many issues with the Gen4 9mm guns and their "upgrades" from the Gen3. For me the ONLY benefit to having a Gen4 would be the smaller grip.
They only true tested bomb proof Glocks out there are the Gen3 9mm guns. To me everything else is suspect. Several members here have had zero issues with the Gen4 guns while other will not run without some sort of issue. The Gen4 will need to evlove a little more before one ends up in my safe.
I would contact Glock and see what they have to say. Fisrt thing they will tell you is to replace all of the after market parts with the stock configuration. I would also try NATO spec ammo as the Gen4's are more ammo sensetive than their Gen3 counterparts.
I didnt always have the aftermarket parts on it and when it was in its stock configuration it done the same stuff. And if the gun cant shoot walmart federal 9mm then it is useless to me, NATO spec ammo is expensive and this is not a self defense gun. And i do agree with you about the Gen3 guns as my 19 and 26 have zero issues.
I had a Gen 4 G17 since March. It has only had factory ball or JHP ammo through it. No parts that are not factory. It stovepiped on the 3rd round fired. It went down hill from there. Most of the ammo I used in the first 500 rounds was 115 grain ball and I used Federal and Winchester. I also ran a hundred and fifty 115 Remington JHP rounds. The gun was factory new with the original dual mainspring. The recoil was mild but the brass would hit me in the face, go left, go right and go forward. I used all factory magazines both the new model that came with the piece and my collection of older 10,17, 19 and 31 round magazines. Failures happend with all of the various magazines.
I called GLOCK back in March and complained. They basicly said I was shooting weak ammo. Problem is NONE of that ammo failed to work my other Gen 3 guns perfectly. In fact the G17G4 was a result of a win at a GLOCK match. I never got 100 rounds in a row out of it without a malfunction.
I recieved the new 02 spring to try out. about 500 rounds later I had a pistol that was working worse. I also was using a bunch of 124 grain ammo both ball and JHP. I was planning to shoot 100 rounds of 124 grain Remington Golden Saber. The first 17 round magazine had THREE failures. A deputy friend tried another magazine. He had one failure. I stopped shooting the gun and took it to a friend with connections. He tried it and had several malfunctions with his 147 match ammo. He wins a lot of GSSF matches in the master class. It would not work well for him BUT his G17 and G19 Gen 4 guns worked well with his match ammo. Well most of the time they did. He recently had a failure at a match with his Gen 4 G19 and has reconsidered his use of the platform.
I gave up on the gun and will NOT buy another. The Gen 4 9mm is a waste of my time.
I hope you can trade yours off. I got rid of mine with full disclosure. GLOCK should be EMBARRASED about this piece of manure.
What really sucks is the short frame design and the aggressive checkering makes it a MUCH better fitting pistol in my hand. If it will not shoot reliably then the hell with it.
As a side note I made all of these complaints back then in the GSSF forum of GLOCK Talk. It seems the problem is still around.
Let me edit this in...
I and the two friends involved in this debacle are all law enforcement with many years of GLOCK use behind us and we are GLOCK trained armorers. This is not a simple lemon gun. It is a major screwup of a great design.
Foto - why do you suppose so many of these guns run well? i.e. LAVs test 17 and the dozen around my circle fo shooting buds, shoots the light cheap stuff like the blazes with original springs. If you're on GT you've seen others with issues and dozens with wonderful results too.
Your experience would argue it can't be only the recoil spring rates, don't you think? Because the lighter spring didn't help at all. Made it worse you said.
Foto - why do you suppose so many of these guns run well? i.e. LAVs test 17 and the dozen around my circle fo shooting buds, shoots the light cheap stuff like the blazes with original springs. If you're on GT you've seen others with issues and dozens with wonderful results too.
Your experience would argue it can't be only the recoil spring rates, don't you think? Because the lighter spring didn't help at all. Made it worse you said.
I truly do not know the answer. I have a pair of GLOCK 26 pistols I use for defense and competition. They have the dual spring setup and they have been 100% for as long as I remember both are oldies with the smooth front grips. Obviously GLOCK has been making dual spring recoil systems for a lot of years.
I remember reading several recent magazine articles on the Gen4 G17 and even those writers reported problems early on in the testing. I believe my 1000 round test with piss poor results is not a good thing no matter how many might work well after a break in period or straight from the box. I never heard about such shenanigans with the Gen 2 and 3 guns. This thread however is proof my results are not unique.
I have heard the G22 is wonderful in the Gen4 configuration. That was what GLOCK was designing first anyhow and the G17 simply got the short end of the R&D.
I do know that GLOCK will not be interested in admitting they have such a problem child because all it would do is lower their reputation. There money is in the G22/23 and the Gen4 seems to be a winner there. I am a 9mm kind of guy and still love the GLOCK concept. The older styles will still fill my personal holsters for personal defense and competition.
Yeah I've been all 9mm G's for quite a few years now. After sampling a Gen 4 G23 I'm all messed up now. ;)
I agree with FotoThomas, i dont think its a ammo problem or a recoil spring problem. And im trying to sell it off now. Im just tired of dealing with it when i have a flawless g19.
My gen 4 17 was very similar to FotoThomas'. I did not have as many outright failures, but with plus p ammo cases dribbling out of the ejection port and WW 115 rolling across my knuckles on ejection, I had no confidence in the gun. It ran better once it had a thousand rounds on it, but I sold it at 1200 rounds.
I have been shooting G's since the late 80's and this was the only bad experience at all.
I do think they changed several things, some subtle, in the dimensions of the major components to accomodate the new spring assembly. The drag mark on the underside of the barrel from the spring assembly flange on mine (that I have seen in several other photo's as well) is evidence that the spring assembly is interacting with the barrel in a different way than before. It may be only a matter of normal manufacturing tolerances now between a great one and a turd. The previous version had enough design margin to work amazingly well across a large population of guns. The fact that many experienced shooters received Gen 4 turd guns is evidence that they lost the recipe.
I think the paragraph above is the real reason for the variation in experiences. Hopefully, they have already made some changes. Mine was a first release one as well.
I saw a pic recently of a problematic gun with an amazing amount of rubbing wear on the barrel hood after not that many rounds. Like a polished stripe right across left to right.
As though in unlocking the tilt tilted too much? It's just wild conspiracy theory at this point but I'm looking around there next. Mine have a lot more rds than the gun I am referring to with no more wear than any of my older Gs.
On boarded another Gen 4 G19 here. Look forward to wringing it out. Very nice trigger quality (feel).
Alpha Sierra
10-30-10, 10:13
However, the Glockmeister spring seems to be a real fix for the recoil assembly issues people are having.
That has been my experience.
My 17 came with the original spring design and a horrid trigger (8+ lbs).
The 02 spring fixed the occasional FTE but did not fix the issue of the wide spring rubbing inside the frame and the front end of the spring getting stuck in the guide rod hole in the slide.
The Glockmeister 17 lb spring/rod assembly fixed the rubbing and spring getting stuck in the slide, kept the FTEs from re-occuring, AND also created NO function or reliability problems of its own.
A polish of all the important surfaces and a Scherer 3.5 connector brought the trigger down to a smooth 5.5 lb.
I am now 100% confident in my 17.
a Scherer 3.5 connector brought the trigger down to a smooth 5.5 lb.
.
+1 to that. 3.5 connectors in three of our Gen 4 9mm's have produced in each a good trigger like a well used Gen 3 stock. I've a Vanek 3.5 on the way to try out, perhaps on our 4th, another Gen 4 G19 which out of the box in a rain storm, was 100% for it's maiden 100 rds. I'm now converted to the "-" connector philosophy. Someone here coached me months ago that if I'd go all in, I'd become safe and comfortable with the now named 4.5 connector. This and the consistent theme from top training orgs that you can run but not hide from the ratio of trigger weight to weight of the pistol.
9500 rds through four Gen 4 9mms (all original springs) and not a stoppage yet. Go figure.
I wish like hell this Gen4 G17 didnt leave such a sour taste in my mouth, i really want a Gen4 19. I also saw the thread today about the new G26s and DAMN!! I love em!!! But we'll have to see, maybe i will use this years GSSF discount on a Gen4 G19. Maybe, just maybe, i will have good luck with it.
I'm a little apprehensive about the Gen4s myself, but I really like the short grip. I have an award certificate from a GSSF shoot and I'm going to try my luck with a Gen4 G17. I would rather be out a $35 upgrade charge than a couple of Benjamins. Besides, there really isn't any other model of Glock that I feel compelled to own. Well, that's not entirely true; a G20 could be cool. Decisions, decisions...
I bought a G4 17 last month and had one stovepipe in the first 50 round (Win NATO) then no problems afterward. I have fired about 800 rounds now and no problems with the Blazer 115 target ammos.
This morning had my first stoppage with my trusty 17 . . . or wait, it was my OD Gen 3. Several thousand rounds and I think this might have been it's first hiccup. I think it was a mag issue (double feed I think) as the mag was a very old 10 round Clinton mag and I cleared it TRB and finished the drill witout taking a close look at it.
So now pushing 15K rounds this year of all calibers and guns, with 9600 of that 9mm through Gen 4's (2.4K in a M&P) and yet I've only seen 3 stoppages - all Blazer 115 gr in Gen 3 guns (1ea, 17, 19, 26).
They happen to any weapon system eventually.
OTOH, our 2nd Gen 4 G19 has now run it's 1 - 300 rds with no problems included some with X300 light attached.
This morning had my first stoppage with my trusty 17 . . . or wait, it was my OD Gen 3. Several thousand rounds and I think this might have been it's first hiccup. I think it was a mag issue (double feed I think) as the mag was a very old 10 round Clinton mag and I cleared it TRB and finished the drill witout taking a close look at it.
So now pushing 15K rounds this year of all calibers and guns, with 9600 of that 9mm through Gen 4's (2.4K in a M&P) and yet I've only seen 3 stoppages - all Blazer 115 gr in Gen 3 guns (1ea, 17, 19, 26).
They happen to any weapon system eventually.
OTOH, our 2nd Gen 4 G19 has now run it's 1 - 300 rds with no problems included some with X300 light attached.
I dont mind "eventually" or "every once in a blue moon" malfunctions and i do expect it. But with my Gen4 17, it alway malfunctions and the most annoying thing is when it ejects the brass in my face. I took my gen3 19 out Friday, and it ran perfect and no brass coming back at me. My G19 has definitly became my go to handgun.
I dont mind "eventually" or "every once in a blue moon" malfunctions and i do expect it. But with my Gen4 17, it alway malfunctions and the most annoying thing is when it ejects the brass in my face. I took my gen3 19 out Friday, and it ran perfect and no brass coming back at me. My G19 has definitly became my go to handgun.
I agree completely. If I had issues each shooting session I'd loose confidence in a platform too. You can't go wrong with a Gen 3. I have several and wouldn't mind a few more (RTF "fish gill" G17 and a RTF2 19 would top the list).
Wow. And odd. I've not had any issues with my Gen IV outside of using inexpensive ammo. Had a diminutive woman shoot it with WWB and I expected issues due to her first time shooting and the admittedly stronger recoil spring. Much to my surprise there was no issues and she fired about 200 rounds. I watched the ejection and it was strong and positive.
I think I'd like another.
platoonDaddy
10-31-10, 18:49
Could you please look at the metal base of your recoil spring guide and post whether it has anything stamped on it? The G17's have nothing stamped on theirs while the G19's have "0 3" stamped on theirs.
Thanks
My Gen4 G17 is stamped "02"
I agree completely. If I had issues each shooting session I'd loose confidence in a platform too. You can't go wrong with a Gen 3. I have several and wouldn't mind a few more (RTF "fish gill" G17 and a RTF2 19 would top the list).
RTF2 19 would be awesome. I love that texture.
After reading this thread about the 4th gen Glocks, I'm happy with my purchase of my new 3rd gen 17.
I put 150 rounds thru it before leaving the store & ran without a hitch right out of the box.
Mine also has the wear on the inside of the frame from the stock double spring. Heres some pics of the wear, the Jager spring and the gun.
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae125/BLT556/100_1860.jpg
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae125/BLT556/100_1861.jpg
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae125/BLT556/100_1862.jpg
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae125/BLT556/100_1864.jpg
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae125/BLT556/100_1865.jpg
A good use for a stock AR charging handle after receiving a replacement from BCM!:D
Street Survival
11-07-10, 18:28
I guess the latest from Glock is that all their newer Gen 4, Glock 9mm will be shipping with their newest "04" Recoil Guide Rod to ensure proper functioning. When you rack the slide it's more like the Gen 3 Glock's. Hopefully, this corrects all the reported problems.
Gen 5, recoil spring assy "05" will be a single flat wire spring on a polymer guide rod. It will require a redesign of the slide and frame, but will be fully interchangeable with Gen 1, 2 or 3 models........
glockkid88
11-07-10, 19:25
Last year at an LAV class he commented that in his opinion if you are going to buy a glock in 9mm you should only buy a gen3. He said that the mag release was better than before but still was not as good as a gen3 with his mag release from tangodown. There is really no other advantage to the gen 4 in my opinion. Thats just me though.
It seems I have to correct myself. I have just bought my old G17 Gen4 back from my friend as well as a brand new unfired G19 Gen4. It is my intention to replace the G17 spring with a Gen3 version and an adapter to allow it to fit in the weapon. This will be my last gasp with it. I really want the short frame and hope the modification will give me what I want.
As for the G19Gen4...It is new and I will try it out and give it a fair shake. If it too has issues early then I will go for a Gen3 spring in her as well. This Gen 4 frame treatment is truly the best I have tried and I want to use it. I hope I can make it work. Of course I said that about my "first" marriage... :)
*UPDATE* Hey, so I took my Gen4 with me back in November to a GSSF match. I let the Glocksmith check it out and see what it thought the problem was. AND BOY DO I FEEL STUPID!! At about 800 or so rounds I stripped the whole pistol and cleaned it and replace the factory recoil spring with the Jager single spring. Apparently, I put the ejector spring in backwards. At first when he told me that is what the problem is, I thought, what does it matter if its in backwards. But now I have put 300-400 rounds throught it and had not had one problem. So he was correct. I even hung my X300 off the front to see if it would have any problems and it didnt. So now im very happy, it will not replace my G19 but i will defenitly shoot it more. Thanks
Thanks for the update and glad to hear it was an easy fix!
*UPDATE* Hey, so I took my Gen4 with me back in November to a GSSF match. I let the Glocksmith check it out and see what it thought the problem was. AND BOY DO I FEEL STUPID!! At about 800 or so rounds I stripped the whole pistol and cleaned it and replace the factory recoil spring with the Jager single spring. Apparently, I put the ejector spring in backwards. At first when he told me that is what the problem is, I thought, what does it matter if its in backwards. But now I have put 300-400 rounds throught it and had not had one problem. So he was correct. I even hung my X300 off the front to see if it would have any problems and it didnt. So now im very happy, it will not replace my G19 but i will defenitly shoot it more. Thanks
You mean the extractor spring right?
jonconsiglio
01-08-11, 12:32
I did that the other day and when I put it back together I could feel the back of the extractor sticking out and not flush with the slide and the loaded indicator not out as far as normal. I took it apart again and realized it when there was nowhere for the spring to connect to (the little nub it fits over). I must have been preoccupied or just not thinking about it. Glad you mentioned that.
After posting in another thread about the factory spring weights being 17 pounds on the unmarked spring and the Gen 3 being 17 pounds as well, I'm wondering if I went too light with the Glockmeister 15 pound spring for carry. It feels about the same as the "02", which a Glock rep told me was 15 pounds, give or take. Now I'm wondering if a 17 pound single spring would be the best option.
Anyone else running a 15 pound Glockmeister or Jager, or are most running the 17? I'm waiting on a "021" spring and am thinking a 17 pound single spring might be a good option as well.
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