View Full Version : Equal Opportunity? Not for Gun Store Owners!
In the 5 years that G&R Tactical has been in business, we have seen our share of discrimination based on what we sell. However, I am fed up with being denied services because of the nature of our business.
Most recently: G&R Tactical was denied a line of credit by a local (and very large) bank. Here is a quick synopsis of the events that took place over the last 3 weeks:
ME: I am working on getting GSA contracts (contracts with the government) for supplying parts and accessories. I need a line of credit to bridge the gap of receiving a contract and receiving payment (usually 30 days later). I will only use this line of credit for GSA contracts as needed.
BANK: Credit and business statements look great. What do you sell?
ME: I will only sell to the government Flashlights, Optics, Slings, and equivalent gear.
BANK: We see that you are in retail sales; however, we see guns on your website. Do you sell guns?
ME: Yes, but I will not be using the line of credit to sell any FFL controlled items (complete guns) to the government.
BANK: We have an anti-gun policy and cannot give credit due to the nature of your business.
ME: I am willing to supply proof (the GSA contact) at the time of receiving the money. The contract will outline the items clearly.
BANK: Our policy includes gun accessories.
DENIED!
Unfortunately, I have encountered the same thing with other large banks, credit card processing companies, and insurance companies. I have spent many hours on the phone battling to try to get services only to be denied because of their anti-gun policies. I could list many accounts similar to the above example that would amaze you.
I am sick of large companies denying services to law-abiding business owners such as ourselves. The sad part of this, the more honest you are, the less chance you have. Ironically, the representative of the bank wanted to give us this loan and recommended us taking a home-equity loan and to tell them it would be used for “home improvement”. But I refuse to lie or go any further with such a company.
Thankfully, the NRA provides policies and contact infomation to gun-friendly businesses. When that path works, it is nice (and expensive). But I do not believe we should be so limited in our choices.
C2Q
It is a sad state of affairs that in this country we have to deal with such prejudices from a large part of the major business sector that we as the people have made major. It is a stab in the back from the same people that we made rich and powerful. I would like to see the federal govt. go after these people for the prejudices, but that would just end with some fines which would probably be passed back to the same working stiffs that made these companies rich in the first place. Thanks for sharing this outrageous behavior C2Q. Good luck with your hunt for financial backing.
:mad: Billy
rubberneck
07-24-07, 13:54
Is there a board policy against naming names? I would like to know which banks have such a backward policy. I'd hate to be unknowingly supporting them with my business.
Is it really that these banks are anti-gun, or is this an indirect consequence of stupid lawsuits (and stupider juries) that lead liability insurance companies to refuse to insure companies without anti-gun policies? (You know: maniac buys gun from retailer, kills innocents with it, then innocents' families sue everybody [with money] in the supply chain.)
At any rate, large corporations, just like governments, can become unresponsive to their customers/citizens. When that happens, consider taking your business to a regional bank or credit union. (The solution to unresponsive governments isn't so easy, unfortunately.)
Is there a board policy against naming names? I would like to know which banks have such a backward policy. I'd hate to be unknowingly supporting them with my business.
The list is too long...I have found that all the major banks, insurance companies, and credit card processing businesses have these policies.
Is it really that these banks are anti-gun, or is this an indirect consequence of stupid lawsuits (and stupider juries) that lead liability insurance companies to refuse to insure companies without anti-gun policies? (You know: maniac buys gun from retailer, kills innocents with it, then innocents' families sue everybody [with money] in the supply chain.)
At any rate, large corporations, just like governments, can become unresponsive to their customers/citizens. When that happens, consider taking your business to a regional bank or credit union. (The solution to unresponsive governments isn't so easy, unfortunately.)
I think insurance companies are a major part of the problem.
rubberneck
07-24-07, 14:18
Is Bank of America one of the guilty parties. I have my personal account and my business account with them. I will not give them my business if they are openly hostile towards the gun industry.
Nathan_Bell
07-24-07, 14:23
I had a long response for this trhead, but I realized it all boiled down to.
That sucks and it makes me angry.
Voodoochild
07-24-07, 14:39
Being that you are both former Military have you looked at USAA or Navy Federal? Both companies are good to go in my opinion as I have dealings with both. Just my 2 cents but it may be worth looking at also does the NRA have any suggested banks that are friendly to law abiding gun owners?
Is Bank of America one of the guilty parties. I have my personal account and my business account with them. I will not give them my business if they are openly hostile towards the gun industry.
While they used to be anti-gun, it looks like we fixed that. Ditto for Citibank. These articles are a few years old, but I hope they haven't since reverted to their evil ways:
Bank of America Will No Longer Refuse Merchant Services Applications from the Gun Industry (http://www.seark.net/~jlove/bankofamerica.htm)
Citibank kills firearms policy
(http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15306)
It looks like the firearms community can get these policies changed. Perhaps it's time to get to work on the bank who is currently discriminating against G&R.
While they used to be anti-gun, it looks like we fixed that. Ditto for Citibank. These articles are a few years old, but I hope they haven't since reverted to their evil ways:
Bank of America Will No Longer Refuse Merchant Services Applications from the Gun Industry (http://www.seark.net/~jlove/bankofamerica.htm)
Citibank kills firearms policy
(http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15306)
It looks like the firearms community can get these policies changed. Perhaps it's time to get to work on the bank who is currently discriminating against G&R.
What you don't hear about are the stipulations! And there can be a lot of them.
Being that you are both former Military have you looked at USAA or Navy Federal? Both companies are good to go in my opinion as I have dealings with both. Just my 2 cents but it may be worth looking at also does the NRA have any suggested banks that are friendly to law abiding gun owners?
Ah, USAA! Be careful what you say to them. They will probably deny you if they hear you shoot on your own land! They knew I had a gun shop next door, and asked me if we personally would shoot on our property (over 10 acres in size w/ no zoning). Obviously, we do. Got a call the next day that we were denied for HOME-OWNERS! Too high-risk.
I have tons of experiences I could share...just because some corpoations seem pro-gun, they find ways to make it very difficult.
Being that you are both former Military have you looked at USAA or Navy Federal? Both companies are good to go in my opinion as I have dealings with both. Just my 2 cents but it may be worth looking at also does the NRA have any suggested banks that are friendly to law abiding gun owners?
USAA is evil!
I had a long response for this trhead, but I realized it all boiled down to.
That sucks and it makes me angry.
Amen.
USAA is evil!
My dealings with them have been great. In fact, I have a firearms insurance policy with them for over $20k worth of guns and accessories and it costs me something like $10-20 per month.
In the 5 years that G&R Tactical has been in business, we have seen our share of discrimination based on what we sell. However, I am fed up with being denied services because of the nature of our business.
Most recently: G&R Tactical was denied a line of credit by a local (and very large) bank. Here is a quick synopsis of the events that took place over the last 3 weeks:
ME: I am working on getting GSA contracts (contracts with the government) for supplying parts and accessories. I need a line of credit to bridge the gap of receiving a contract and receiving payment (usually 30 days later). I will only use this line of credit for GSA contracts as needed.
BANK: Credit and business statements look great. What do you sell?
ME: I will only sell to the government Flashlights, Optics, Slings, and equivalent gear.
BANK: We see that you are in retail sales; however, we see guns on your website. Do you sell guns?
ME: Yes, but I will not be using the line of credit to sell any FFL controlled items (complete guns) to the government.
BANK: We have an anti-gun policy and cannot give credit due to the nature of your business.
This is the point in the conversation I would have FIRED them from providing me banking services of any kind.
ME: I am willing to supply proof (the GSA contact) at the time of receiving the money. The contract will outline the items clearly.
BANK: Our policy includes gun accessories.
DENIED!
C2Q
12345
This is the point I would have fired them...
Technically, I had not yet hired them. I went more in depth with this one cause the rep thought he could get it through. The only reason to go on was to prove that if I took out the gun aspect of it, they still would not be happy. I was not surprised by their answer once the first one was no. Their policy suddenly became more defined on a whim once I took out the actual gun aspect of it.
I have the documentation and am getting an appraisal of their decision so I can forward it up the complaint process.
Heavy Metal
07-26-07, 14:27
Are there any credit unions you could try?
Sidewinder6
07-26-07, 15:14
Being in Gov Contracts and understand your circumstances, I might offer a couple of tactics to smooth the rough road your on.
1) Seperate your firearm business from the one you have applied for GSA schedule with. Yes, there will be paperwork but you might step around the policy quagmire. There are enough problems in obtaining a small business line of credit and merchant bank accounts. Dont change names with GSA mid stream, your process will drag on if you do. Move your firearm business if that is feasible. You spread your liability as well and your attorney would like that in a high risk area.
2) You may have already done this but consider emphasizing some of your special status for additional incentives: a) Small Business, b) Woman Owned Business, c) Veteran Owned Business. You might be able to find the Government may help you find bridge financing, and you tell your bank to stick it.
You have to give more money to your tax accountant but you may be able to afford it with the new business.
Also, for financial planning, plan out 45-60 days on your cash flow. Your payment is made within 30 days once all the approvals are made. Often to disparate offices within the procurement agency.
Good luck.
Being in Gov Contracts and understand your circumstances, I might offer a couple of tactics to smooth the rough road your on.
1) Seperate your firearm business from the one you have applied for GSA schedule with. Yes, there will be paperwork but you might step around the policy quagmire. There are enough problems in obtaining a small business line of credit and merchant bank accounts. Dont change names with GSA mid stream, your process will drag on if you do. Move your firearm business if that is feasible. You spread your liability as well and your attorney would like that in a high risk area.
2) You may have already done this but consider emphasizing some of your special status for additional incentives: a) Small Business, b) Woman Owned Business, c) Veteran Owned Business. You might be able to find the Government may help you find bridge financing, and you tell your bank to stick it.
You have to give more money to your tax accountant but you may be able to afford it with the new business.
Also, for financial planning, plan out 45-60 days on your cash flow. Your payment is made within 30 days once all the approvals are made. Often to disparate offices within the procurement agency.
Good luck.
Sounds like a hassle, but it is probably worth it in the long run.
Sidewinder6
07-26-07, 19:52
Sounds like a hassle, but it is probably worth it in the long run.
I agree. But the problem wasnt started by them. With the G. it is better to 'navigate' the pitfalls otherwise you are left to your own demise.
Beating down a door doesnt necessarily get you anywhere and we have learned that using the right vocabulary is the difference from someone who is 'in the know', and someone who is on the outside.
I think the original posters understand the difference from looking at their web site. I was just tossing a couple thoughts out FWIW. There isnt a day we go by where we dont shake our heads about similar things when it comes to contracting. Getting on a GSA list is a hard thing to do for a new company.
Being in Gov Contracts and understand your circumstances, I might offer a couple of tactics to smooth the rough road your on.
1) Seperate your firearm business from the one you have applied for GSA schedule with. Yes, there will be paperwork but you might step around the policy quagmire. There are enough problems in obtaining a small business line of credit and merchant bank accounts. Dont change names with GSA mid stream, your process will drag on if you do. Move your firearm business if that is feasible. You spread your liability as well and your attorney would like that in a high risk area.
2) You may have already done this but consider emphasizing some of your special status for additional incentives: a) Small Business, b) Woman Owned Business, c) Veteran Owned Business. You might be able to find the Government may help you find bridge financing, and you tell your bank to stick it.
You have to give more money to your tax accountant but you may be able to afford it with the new business.
Also, for financial planning, plan out 45-60 days on your cash flow. Your payment is made within 30 days once all the approvals are made. Often to disparate offices within the procurement agency.
Good luck.
Thanks for the info. Some of the things we have considered. I really don't want to seperate the businesses.
I should pursue more of the special status possibilites. We are a woman, disabled veteran-owned business! That should help out somewhere.
Thanks.
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