View Full Version : M16A3/M16A4 contract for FN
Is the M16A3 issued in any significant numbers?:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=8002dde5105b03faa2a505dbdd73ded3&tab=core&_cview=0
When I was in I was told the Navy had the M16A3s and used them to guard the nuke bases. But you know how reliable common knowledge in the military is...
Failure2Stop
10-22-10, 07:44
The only place I have seen them were with Navy units other than a few buried in various armories.
The only ones I've seen were Navy. I had them in my armory for a little while, then I shipped them to Crane for the Navy.
:)
That's good news for FN.
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Is the M16A3 an M16A2 with full auto?
Is the M16A3 an M16A2 with full auto?
yes but I'm sure that flattop M16A3 are out there
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9780/m16a3fn.th.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/m16a3fn.jpg/)
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I wonder why FN got this. Are Colt's UAW labor rates too high? QC probelms?
BushmasterFanBoy
10-22-10, 09:58
I wonder why FN got this. Are Colt's UAW labor rates too high? QC probelms?
As I recall, FN has the contract for all M16's and variants, while Colt produces the M4's. Maybe someone else can elaborate why, but I think that's the jist of it.
As I recall, FN has the contract for all M16's and variants, while Colt produces the M4's. Maybe someone else can elaborate why, but I think that's the jist of it.
I'm not sure how it's written but it seems that Colt builds all the M4's and we do the different 16's.
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I'm not sure how it's written but it seems that Colt builds all the M4's and we do the different 16's.
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I had no idea you were with FN. Good info.
Robb Jensen
10-22-10, 13:37
M16 = SAFE-SEMI-AUTO
M16-A1 = SAFE-SEMI-AUTO
M16A2 = SAFE-SEMI-BURST (carry handle upper)
M16A3 = SAFE-SEMI-AUTO (carry handle upper)
M16A4 = SAFE-SEMI-BURST (flat top upper)
M4 = SAFE-SEMI-BURST (early ones were A2 uppers, now flat tops)
M4A1 = SAFE-SEMI-AUTO (flat top uppers)
CarlosDJackal
10-22-10, 13:39
FN has been building all the M-16 variants starting with the M-16A2s. Colt was responsible for the M-4 and M-4A1s.
Hasn't the USMC been issuing M-16A4s for quite some time now? Have they ever issues M-16A3s?
Can anyone verify this?
Robb Jensen
10-22-10, 13:41
FN has been building all the M-16 variants starting with the M-16A2s. Colt was responsible for the M-4 and M-4A1s.
Hasn't the USMC been issuing M-16A4s for quite some time now? Have they ever issues M-16A3s?
Can anyone verify this?
Standard issue USMC is a 20" M16A4 (flat top rifle with burst).
I had no idea you were with FN. Good info.
Yep, but for what what it's worth I'm just a weapons assembler (M240) and sometimes CNC operator. It is a great place work and I get to see lots of cool stuff...:cool:
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Do Colt and FN manufacture their own barrels, lowers, uppers, etc. or do they subcontract?
Belmont31R
10-22-10, 15:28
Do Colt and FN manufacture their own barrels, lowers, uppers, etc. or do they subcontract?
Colt makes almost everything in house.
I know FN has one of the few barrel hammer forging machines in the US.
Do Colt and FN manufacture their own barrels, lowers, uppers, etc. or do they subcontract?
Barrels and lowers yes.
The barrel line pushes out products for the FN military weapons, FNH USA, FN pistols as well as other's like Winchester.
As for stuff being "subcontracted" I'm not in a postion to post that.
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I've seen brand spanking new flat top FN M16A3s issued to a National Guard Field Artillery Unit in 2003, until I held in one my hand I thought they were a myth. I forget which state the unit was from but that state was supposed to be buying brand spanking new rifles for every swinging dick being deployed.
Failure2Stop
10-22-10, 18:13
I've seen brand spanking new flat top FN M16A3s issued to a National Guard Field Artillery Unit in 2003, until I held in one my hand I thought they were a myth. I forget which state the unit was from but that state was supposed to be buying brand spanking new rifles for every swinging dick being deployed.
Are you sure they were A3's? Selector should be marked "Auto", not "Burst", and there should not be a burts cam on the right side of the hammer or have the burst disconnector to the right of the disconnector.
I don't mean to insult your knowledge, but sometimes someone who is a position of authority bt not necessarily speaking from a solid knowledge base will say something, and whether it is right or wrong it will be taken as gospel.
FWIW- I have seen M16A3s with A2 carry handles as well as flat-tops. All of them had A2 handguards, though changing to something else is pretty simple. All were marked "FN" and "M16A3" on the left side (as normally marked) of the mag well.
Are you sure they were A3's? Selector should be marked "Auto", not "Burst", and there should not be a burts cam on the right side of the hammer or have the burst disconnector to the right of the disconnector.
I don't mean to insult your knowledge, but sometimes someone who is a position of authority bt not necessarily speaking from a solid knowledge base will say something, and whether it is right or wrong it will be taken as gospel.
FWIW- I have seen M16A3s with A2 carry handles as well as flat-tops. All of them had A2 handguards, though changing to something else is pretty simple. All were marked "FN" and "M16A3" on the left side (as normally marked) of the mag well.
It definitely was a flattop and definitely said auto, I however did not inspect the internals but was very jealous nonetheless :o
Are the M16s making a comeback or is this just a blip on the radar? I thought that everybody was going to the M4 and M4A1.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-22-10, 21:46
I found an M16A3 buy the bus on Crossfire. COD4.....
Magic_Salad0892
10-23-10, 01:06
I found an M16A3 buy the bus on Crossfire. COD4.....
:laugh::p:cool:
Shut up. XD
ChicagoTex
10-23-10, 05:08
I thought that everybody was going to the M4 and M4A1.
I thought everyone in the ARMY was doing that, so this req comes as a surprise to me. The USMC is still standing by their M16A4s (hopefully soon to be A5s) as a primary issue weapon.
What would an M16A5 configuration look like?
Robb Jensen
10-24-10, 11:32
What would an M16A5 configuration look like?
Similar to this http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/AR15_BCM_Carbine_Rifle_M4_M16A5_RIFLE_s/48.htm
Whootsinator
10-24-10, 11:56
Note: The following is total hearsay.
I had a friend who was in the USAF Security Forces (Military Police of the Air Force). He guarded nuke sites, and whatever else he was told to guard. Apparently they were issued mostly M16A1s, but he said there were a few M16A3s floating around in the Security Forces.
No idea if it's true or not, or if he was mistaken.
Failure2Stop
10-24-10, 13:15
Note: The following is total hearsay.
I had a friend who was in the USAF Security Forces (Military Police of the Air Force). He guarded nuke sites, and whatever else he was told to guard. Apparently they were issued mostly M16A1s, but he said there were a few M16A3s floating around in the Security Forces.
No idea if it's true or not, or if he was mistaken.
I wouldn't be surprised. The AirForce has a history of non-standard configurations and one-offs as issued items. Definately not a stretch of the imagination to replace a 20" auto with an improved 20" auto.
PlatoCATM and Redhat both work for/with the AirForce, they might be able to confirm or deny.
When I first came in, we had the M16 (AR-15) with no forward assist and 1/12 barrels...the AF as I know never issued the M16A1 although I have seen some uppers throughout the years.
AF went from the M16 to the M16A2. The only M16A3s I've ever seen were in the hands of USN personnel.
Whootsinator
10-24-10, 13:39
Like I said, only hearsay. ;)
The M16 vs M16A1 was probably my mistake. He did specifically mention they were auto with 1:12 barrels. He didn't say anything about the flash hider or forward assist.
But, F2S mentioned, the USAF isn't exactly known for perfect conformity, and the Security Forces even more so, so no one can definitively say such an instance doesn't exist. Just the same, no one can believe one person that says 'well I saw this, so it was definitely real'. My friend may have been mistaken.
I've heard a lot of people refer to the M16 as an A1 over the years.
ChicagoTex
10-24-10, 13:53
What would an M16A5 configuration look like?
Similar to this http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/AR15_...RIFLE_s/48.htm
Indeed. A4s and A5s will be identical except for the collapsible stock.
variablebinary
10-25-10, 03:06
Are the M16s making a comeback or is this just a blip on the radar? I thought that everybody was going to the M4 and M4A1.
Mostly everyone is going with the M4, but my unit for example is still sitting on hundreds of A2's and A4's. We'll deploy with them unless we get attached to door kickers, in which case, we get M4's
All the strategic guys get 20" models, but all the tactical guys will get M4's with M11's or M9's. Mostly its about money and budget constraints
All the strategic guys get 20" models, but all the tactical guys will get M4's with M11's or M9's. Mostly its about money and budget constraints
little hijack...what's the M11? the SIG?
CaptainDooley
10-25-10, 07:47
According to google/wikipedia, it's the US designation for the P228...
I thought everyone in the ARMY was doing that, so this req comes as a surprise to me. The USMC is still standing by their M16A4s (hopefully soon to be A5s) as a primary issue weapon.
What is surprising about it? The Army has been responsible for M16 procurement for all of the service branches since 1963.
Magic_Salad0892
10-25-10, 15:55
Is it possible that the A3 flattops came from the factory as carry handle A3's but the lowers found a A4 upper sitting on them after some passes to/from the armory?
ChicagoTex
10-25-10, 16:41
What is surprising about it? The Army has been responsible for M16 procurement for all of the service branches since 1963.
Somehow that factoid, if true, has eluded me all these years.
LonghunterCO
10-25-10, 17:10
Similar to this http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/AR15_BCM_Carbine_Rifle_M4_M16A5_RIFLE_s/48.htm
I am not sure why, but I sure want to build one of these... Thanks for posting.
Somehow that factoid, if true, has eluded me all these years.
It's correct. The Air Force has no business whatsoever being the primary contract-holder on a tool of the ground combat element.
Had they remained in charge of it, use of the thing for more than 4hrs would require crew-rest periods, and they would cost $600 million each.
These days, those jokers can buy OTS so much more readily, as a branch, than anybody else...it'd be disgusting if the rest of us weren't so damned jealous over the fact. Hence, the reason why the corporate AF has so much oddball stuff. Somebody on the crapper with an ADS catalog.....
I've no clue as to who might still feel the need for no-shit A3s, these days, but calling for more A4s is simply in order to replace losses. The AAOs haven't changed.
Are the M16s making a comeback or is this just a blip on the radar? I thought that everybody was going to the M4 and M4A1.
Much of 3rd ID, at least till 2006 when I got out, was still issued the M16A4. During the invasion of Iraq only officers and senior NCOs had M4s. Then during my 05 deployment some more M4s came and most NCOs had them.
It's correct. The Air Force has no business whatsoever being the primary contract-holder on a tool of the ground combat element.
Had they remained in charge of it, use of the thing for more than 4hrs would require crew-rest periods, and they would cost $600 million each.
These days, those jokers can buy OTS so much more readily, as a branch, than anybody else...it'd be disgusting if the rest of us weren't so damned jealous over the fact. Hence, the reason why the corporate AF has so much oddball stuff. Somebody on the crapper with an ADS catalog.....
I've no clue as to who might still feel the need for no-shit A3s, these days, but calling for more A4s is simply in order to replace losses. The AAOs haven't changed.
Don't lump us all into the same group with aircrew. Funny though.
True about the OTS, but the problem is the douche with the Impac doesn't know what he is ordering and generally orders crap. That is changing.
All the M16A2's I've been issued when we were still using them, all FN.
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